So if cities were pandered to instead of farm country, what would political pandering look like then?
I don't think it'd be that much different than it is now. What'd change is that more cities would be pandered to by the Democratic Party (including those smack in the middle of red states...hello, Austin!) and rural and suburban voters in traditionally blue states would get some attention from the Republicans, like upstate New York and parts of California.
All they'll have to say is what they're looking for and how it could be prosecuted as high treason.
I dunno. It just seems to me everyone already expects an inquiry no matter who is president. I'm sure McCain is gonna get pressed for it as well. A Dem president should just be more amicable about it. Hillary's another case though since it gives her more firepower to blame Bush about the economy, international state of affairs etc. after the last time she was in the White House...doing big important things...like getting cheated on...by some guy who was president...sticking cigars in people...
Wouldn't going to Popular Vote only ensure that candidates only focus on and pander to major population centers? Won't Rural America get screwed?
Well, ideally, yeah.
It'd be one more incentive to get them to move to major population centers.
Funny thing is that your voice gets smaller in the "local area" of large population centers. In a village you have more local say....so the only reason you'd move would be so you could be advertised to?
I think the internet has gone a long way in making the popular vote a more viable option. You can still be in a rural town but be active politically.
The current paradigm of rural votes being weighted so heavily isn't so excellent, as I see it. It gives us situations like farm lobbies and rural areas being politically extremely (and disproportionately) powerful.
While I agree with you in part, I worry about the effect of such a dramatic shift of power all the same. It's too easy for those in large cities to write off the needs of rural communities on the basis that they're all uneducated hicks.
Frankly, I don't trust people period, and while I dislike the Electoral College, Popular Vote seems only a minor improvement, if at all, as it puts even more power into the hands of the majority.
So coincidentally, a blogger over at Kos works for the Philadelphia Daily News and was in on the editorial board meeting that the candidates do with all these papers, he asked if an Obama Administration would prosecute the Bush White House for torture and whatever else:
What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.
So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.
That's about the right answer politically.
I, personally, think Obama should also start talking about treason charges after he gets into office to put the fear into the GOP. Hell, I wish that Ford had ended the imbroglio by having Nixon shot rather than pardoning him.
Bah. The democractic congress will do that for him. If anything they're going to be the loudest so they can pressure him for snippets of top secret info they can use to burn as many members of the GOP as possible. Obama shouldn't go back on his word and that's change. A witch hunt isn't change. That's what we did in Iraq right? I think his answer while political aligns closely with his overall message and why I like him.
I'm not saying to actually bring the charges against Bush, just release a few legal opinion memos to scare the truth out of everybody.
The standard for treason is exceedingly narrow and exceedingly high in this country for a reason. I hope never to live to see the precedent you want established.
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
The standard for treason is exceedingly narrow and exceedingly high in this country for a reason. I hope never to live to see the precedent you want established.
It's that the party chairman and the supers acting before the voting is over has the same potentially damaging reprocussions for the party as giving the nomination to Hillary after Obama won the popular vote and delegate race.
Agreed. At least in the case of Dean, he's really in a hard place right now. He could end this all tomorrow, and alienate all the people in the remaining states that are actually excited to have a voice in their party's primary, or he can wait, and let Hillary further divide the party over the next two months.
God, Joe. Just slap that fucking (R) next to your name. You know you want to.
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HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Just when I think there isn't a more infuriating Democrat than Hillary Clinton, Tailgunner Joe 2.0 steps up to remind me of the dangers of excessive hyperbole.
Spreading Bill Kristol's smears? He can fuck off and die for that. He can fuck off and die!
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
So he's now a Muslim Manchrurian candidate, a dangerous black radical, and now.....a communist. How do they keep track of all of their spin?
Best part is! Obama naively defended him against the anti-war left at least during his primary against Ned Lamont, one of the few things I don't like about Obama.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Just when I think there isn't a more infuriating Democrat than Hillary Clinton, Tailgunner Joe 2.0 steps up to remind me of the dangers of excessive hyperbole.
Spreading Bill Kristol's smears? He can fuck off and die for that. He can fuck off and die!
If it makes you feel better I cut off a friend tonight because she couldn't seem to understand that we've broken international law by torturing people. Or how horrendously bad that is. She actually hit me with talking points. I think I've finally pinned down the exact state of mind of the rank and file GOP dead enders. She reminded me of my father- a horrid blend of incuriousness, blind faith ("I'm sure it's saved thousands of lives") a ruthlessly juvenile sense of right and wrong ("But they cut peoples fucking heads off!"), and a hopelessly undeserving sense of entitlement and infallibility. She actually said "I don't have to defend or explain my position because I'm an American, this is the greatest country on earth and if you don't like it here you can leave." This is from a bright, sweet 21 year old girl. It simply boggles my mind and makes me sick to my stomach in equal measure. How can people feel this way. It's so absurdly petulant and stupid.
No-Quarter on
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HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
Just when I think there isn't a more infuriating Democrat than Hillary Clinton, Tailgunner Joe 2.0 steps up to remind me of the dangers of excessive hyperbole.
Spreading Bill Kristol's smears? He can fuck off and die for that. He can fuck off and die!
If it makes you feel better I cut off a friend tonight because she couldn't seem to understand that we've broken international law by torturing people. Or how horrendously bad that is. She actually hit me with talking points. I think I've finally pinned down the exact state of mind of the rank and file GOP dead enders. She reminded me of my father- a horrid blend of incuriousness, blind faith ("I'm sure it's saved thousands of lives") a ruthlessly juvenile sense of right and wrong ("But they cut peoples fucking heads off!"), and a hopelessly undeserving sense of entitlement and infallibility. She actually said "I don't have to defend or explain my position because I'm an American, this is the greatest country on earth and if you don't like it here you can leave." This is from a bright, sweet 21 year old girl. It simply boggles my mind and makes me sick to my stomach in equal measure. How can people feel this way. It's so absurdly petulant and stupid.
That's the kind of bullshit you have to be deprogrammed out of.
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Just when I think there isn't a more infuriating Democrat than Hillary Clinton, Tailgunner Joe 2.0 steps up to remind me of the dangers of excessive hyperbole.
Spreading Bill Kristol's smears? He can fuck off and die for that. He can fuck off and die!
If it makes you feel better I cut off a friend tonight because she couldn't seem to understand that we've broken international law by torturing people. Or how horrendously bad that is. She actually hit me with talking points. I think I've finally pinned down the exact state of mind of the rank and file GOP dead enders. She reminded me of my father- a horrid blend of incuriousness, blind faith ("I'm sure it's saved thousands of lives") a ruthlessly juvenile sense of right and wrong ("But they cut peoples fucking heads off!"), and a hopelessly undeserving sense of entitlement and infallibility. She actually said "I don't have to defend or explain my position because I'm an American, this is the greatest country on earth and if you don't like it here you can leave." This is from a bright, sweet 21 year old girl. It simply boggles my mind and makes me sick to my stomach in equal measure. How can people feel this way. It's so absurdly petulant and stupid.
That's the kind of bullshit you have to be deprogrammed out of.
I think she might be a lost cause at this point. She's commuting to school now (her sheltered life fucked her up going away) so she very likely doesn't get any outside sources of information that aren't filled with rancid bias. The thing is she isn't dumb, she just refused to address my arguments. Dead cold. She actually said that she wouldn't change her positions for any amount of hard evidence to the contrary. I even hit her with the Christian angle. That set her off. There's nothing like an telling a christian that Jesus would be ashamed of them. I like Jesus. He brings teh blue sparkz.
No-Quarter on
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deowolfis allowed to do that.Traffic.Registered Userregular
edited April 2008
Deprogrammed or beaten out of you.
Jesus-shame is always a move sure to bring down the house.
deowolf on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Here Harr. Feel better as MissLaura rips into Joe, thank god for the Kossacks:
I truly believe that Joe Lieberman is not a republican simply because he is Jewish and from New England. Seriously, if he were to go the the republican party full-time, I think he would be kicked out of synagogue and he couldn't find another one to go to for at least a two-hundred mile radius.
That, and Al Franken put it very eloquently, "Jews cannot afford to tolerate a party that does not support civil rights"
DoctorArch on
Switch Friend Code: SW-6732-9515-9697
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
Jesus-shame is always a move sure to bring down the house.
I thoroughly enjoy how if Jesus really does exist, it'll be hypocritical "values voters" and their ilk that he'll be most pissed off at. How deliciously ironic. On that note, I'm going to bed and the Hagee's and Fallwell's of the world can go choke on the Devil's Spiked Dick(TM) in hell.
Gentlemen, a pleasure as always, good evening.
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HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Oh shit yes, Jesus would be a progressive if he were alive today. And Rush Limbaugh would call him a dirty hippie.
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
That's the thing about neo-conservatism. It's stalwart stupidity, and you can't beat that. There's no claim they can't twist.
Jesus was about love and peace? Sure, for the righteous, but our enemies aren't righteous, and Jesus spoke about punishment, so we're doing God's work.
Jesus was about love and peace? Sure, for the righteous, but our enemies aren't righteous, and Jesus spoke about punishment, so we're doing God's work.
I assume your positing that as an absurd interpretation, however, it was also the received interpretation of the Papacy for the thousand something years that it was the highest Christian authority.
So if cities were pandered to instead of farm country, what would political pandering look like then?
benefiting a higher percentage of the population?
The number one example of disproportionate rural policy - sugar lobby. The amount of absolutely indefensible power that they hold is totally ridiculous. They fuck over the entire country, and benefit nobody but themselves. It is so fucked.
Are you actually blaming that on the electoral college?
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I don't think it'd be that much different than it is now. What'd change is that more cities would be pandered to by the Democratic Party (including those smack in the middle of red states...hello, Austin!) and rural and suburban voters in traditionally blue states would get some attention from the Republicans, like upstate New York and parts of California.
I dunno. It just seems to me everyone already expects an inquiry no matter who is president. I'm sure McCain is gonna get pressed for it as well. A Dem president should just be more amicable about it. Hillary's another case though since it gives her more firepower to blame Bush about the economy, international state of affairs etc. after the last time she was in the White House...doing big important things...like getting cheated on...by some guy who was president...sticking cigars in people...
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I don't think it's pandering to give cities proportional say.
While I agree with you in part, I worry about the effect of such a dramatic shift of power all the same. It's too easy for those in large cities to write off the needs of rural communities on the basis that they're all uneducated hicks.
Frankly, I don't trust people period, and while I dislike the Electoral College, Popular Vote seems only a minor improvement, if at all, as it puts even more power into the hands of the majority.
The standard for treason is exceedingly narrow and exceedingly high in this country for a reason. I hope never to live to see the precedent you want established.
Agreed. At least in the case of Dean, he's really in a hard place right now. He could end this all tomorrow, and alienate all the people in the remaining states that are actually excited to have a voice in their party's primary, or he can wait, and let Hillary further divide the party over the next two months.
The regular supers can go fuck themselves though.
Yep. We sure do see alot of good old Mrs. C! Always brings cookies and little Barack is a crook stickers for the kids.
FUCK JOE LIEBERMAN
FUCK JOE LIEBERMAN
God, Joe. Just slap that fucking (R) next to your name. You know you want to.
Spreading Bill Kristol's smears? He can fuck off and die for that. He can fuck off and die!
I also hear he's a Tory.
He's going to pop out of a wooden horse at the inauguration.
He's sympathetic to Moses and the uprisings he's inciting.
If it makes you feel better I cut off a friend tonight because she couldn't seem to understand that we've broken international law by torturing people. Or how horrendously bad that is. She actually hit me with talking points. I think I've finally pinned down the exact state of mind of the rank and file GOP dead enders. She reminded me of my father- a horrid blend of incuriousness, blind faith ("I'm sure it's saved thousands of lives") a ruthlessly juvenile sense of right and wrong ("But they cut peoples fucking heads off!"), and a hopelessly undeserving sense of entitlement and infallibility. She actually said "I don't have to defend or explain my position because I'm an American, this is the greatest country on earth and if you don't like it here you can leave." This is from a bright, sweet 21 year old girl. It simply boggles my mind and makes me sick to my stomach in equal measure. How can people feel this way. It's so absurdly petulant and stupid.
I think she might be a lost cause at this point. She's commuting to school now (her sheltered life fucked her up going away) so she very likely doesn't get any outside sources of information that aren't filled with rancid bias. The thing is she isn't dumb, she just refused to address my arguments. Dead cold. She actually said that she wouldn't change her positions for any amount of hard evidence to the contrary. I even hit her with the Christian angle. That set her off. There's nothing like an telling a christian that Jesus would be ashamed of them. I like Jesus. He brings teh blue sparkz.
Jesus-shame is always a move sure to bring down the house.
EDIT: OMG LOOK AT THE FIRST COMMENT! HAHAHAHAHAHA
That, and Al Franken put it very eloquently, "Jews cannot afford to tolerate a party that does not support civil rights"
I thoroughly enjoy how if Jesus really does exist, it'll be hypocritical "values voters" and their ilk that he'll be most pissed off at. How deliciously ironic. On that note, I'm going to bed and the Hagee's and Fallwell's of the world can go choke on the Devil's Spiked Dick(TM) in hell.
Gentlemen, a pleasure as always, good evening.
With delusions of grandeur.
All saying who can go to heaven and what not.
He'd be a product of his time just like everyone else.
Jesus was about love and peace? Sure, for the righteous, but our enemies aren't righteous, and Jesus spoke about punishment, so we're doing God's work.
Imagine how out of touch would HE be.
Spending couple of millenia in heaven and all that. He'd be completely distanced from real world.
"So wait, how come you guys just don't make a wish when you want something?"
"What do you mean with "we can't fly unaided around here"?"
"Buddhism? Hinduism? Atheism? What are you talking about?"
"What is it with those big black noisy tubes you guys are carrying around, and why are you pointing them towards me?"
And since he would be speaking all that in ancient Aramaic, no one would know what the hell he was talking about.
I assume your positing that as an absurd interpretation, however, it was also the received interpretation of the Papacy for the thousand something years that it was the highest Christian authority.
Are you actually blaming that on the electoral college?