There's an interesting theory being thrown around on the filmfodder lost blog that due to the similar circumstances (humming, purple sky), when Desmond didn't put in the numbers, turning the key may have prevented an "Island Shift".
I don't see yet how this would really tell us anything, but I think it's an interesting theory
edit: unrelated, there are a lot of people throwing around Hoffs Drawler anagrams as if they might mean something... most sensical one is "Flesh Forward", which would make an awesome name for a time-travelling Zombie film, my question, who the fuck is Hoffs Drawler
I think Ben has tricked and duped the producers and writers of the show into letting him back on the island. He's that crafty.
Regardless of what explanations you have for Ben and what he said, I'm pretty sure at this point that if Ben does make it back onto the island, I will groan and wonder why they would set us up like that. You can have characters who lie, but you can't really lie to your audience, that gets old.
Why? At what point did the show ever give the impression that Ben could NEVER go back. Like, that there was some forcefield that would keep him out or something.
All we know is that moving the Island teleports you ... away from the Island. And that Ben may not know where it is now. And that Ben is no longer in favour with the Island and no longer the leader of the Others.
Well, Ben did say that whoever turns the wheel can never return to the Island.
I think the idea is that well, that's essentially a bit of exposition; the writers are telling us, through Ben, the consequences of moving the Island. To renege on that is sort of to have lied to us.
However, if you put that in the context of a character arc where Ben decides he will damn well find a way to go back anyway, I think it's actually very decent storytelling.
There's an interesting theory being thrown around on the filmfodder lost blog that due to the similar circumstances (humming, purple sky), when Desmond didn't put in the numbers, turning the key may have prevented an "Island Shift".
I don't see yet how this would really tell us anything, but I think it's an interesting theory
edit: unrelated, there are a lot of people throwing around Hoffs Drawler anagrams as if they might mean something... most sensical one is "Flesh Forward", which would make an awesome name for a time-travelling Zombie film, my question, who the fuck is Hoffs Drawler
Hoffs Drawlar is the name of the funeral parlor that Jack went to. When they replayed last season's finale, it had those little hints or trivia bits or whatever overlaid on the bottom of the screen. When the funeral parlor came up, the text specifically said that Hoffs Drawlar was an anagram for "Flash Forward."
There's an interesting theory being thrown around on the filmfodder lost blog that due to the similar circumstances (humming, purple sky), when Desmond didn't put in the numbers, turning the key may have prevented an "Island Shift".
I don't see yet how this would really tell us anything, but I think it's an interesting theory
edit: unrelated, there are a lot of people throwing around Hoffs Drawler anagrams as if they might mean something... most sensical one is "Flesh Forward", which would make an awesome name for a time-travelling Zombie film, my question, who the fuck is Hoffs Drawler
Hoffs Drawler (or maybe it's Drawlar), is the name of the funeral home in the last two season finales. I had thought, back before the season when they ran those pop-up video type re-runs, that the anagram for it was F'lash Forward', which is why I suggest maybe it's actually Drawlar instead of Drawler.
Also, I think we're making it way too complicated and nitpicky w/ the whole ben can or can't return deal. It's as simple as this:
Step 1: turn wheel, move Island
Step 2: get transported to desert
Step 3: try and fail to find Island because, see Step 1...it moved
So I don't think it's that he's 100% banned from ever stepping foot on the Island again...it's just that, he now has to find it. And it's likely to be anywhere in the whole world for all we know. Why he claims to have 'ideas' and why he needs the Oceanic 6, is because he believes the Island did not intend for them to leave, and that given the right scenario, the Island will try to get them back. The Island does not want him and won't exert any effort to get him back, but if he's w/ the O6...then he might get taken along by default. It's also possible that it doesn't have to be 'all' of them, but he just doesn't know which one the island wants most, so he's going to include them all to be safe. Or maybe he thinks the island will 'try' harder to get them if he's got them all. A flaw in that logic could be Locke, since if he left the same way Ben did, then the island won't want him back either. Maybe he has a hunch that Locke left in a different way...or maybe it's because he's dead or something, dunno.
Man, sorry for the ramble.
edit: and damnit, I typed to long and was beaten by the postin' stick on my first point...
I'm pretty sure Turn the Wheel = banishment. It's like the ultimate admission to the island that "I failed to protect you, so now you have to move. Sorry."
I'm also pretty sure Whidmore was once on the island, and he Turned the Wheel.
"Everything you have, you took from me." Perhaps Ben coaxed/coerced/tricked Whiddy into Turning the Wheel.
Is there any correlation to the "Wheel of Dharma" from Bhuddism?
Well, Ben did say that whoever turns the wheel can never return to the Island.
I think the idea is that well, that's essentially a bit of exposition; the writers are telling us, through Ben, the consequences of moving the Island. To renege on that is sort of to have lied to us.
However, if you put that in the context of a character arc where Ben decides he will damn well find a way to go back anyway, I think it's actually very decent storytelling.
Yeah, but "Never return" in what sense.
I don't think it's a "The Island will physically prevent you from returning".
I think it's more "Your banished. Your no longer an Other. If you return, you'll be killed/whatever just like any other intruder".
Well, Ben did say that whoever turns the wheel can never return to the Island.
I think the idea is that well, that's essentially a bit of exposition; the writers are telling us, through Ben, the consequences of moving the Island. To renege on that is sort of to have lied to us.
However, if you put that in the context of a character arc where Ben decides he will damn well find a way to go back anyway, I think it's actually very decent storytelling.
Yeah, but "Never return" in what sense.
I don't think it's a "The Island will physically prevent you from returning".
I think it's more "Your banished. Your no longer an Other. If you return, you'll be killed/whatever just like any other intruder".
That's something we basically have to work out from context. Because of the mystical-jacoby nature of what causes this to happen, my instinct is that the Island will do what it can to stop him from coming back.
I'm on board with the idea that if the Island wants the O6 bad enough, it'll take Ben back too; and that that's exactly what he's counting on in the flashforward.
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
I think Ben has tricked and duped the producers and writers of the show into letting him back on the island. He's that crafty.
Regardless of what explanations you have for Ben and what he said, I'm pretty sure at this point that if Ben does make it back onto the island, I will groan and wonder why they would set us up like that. You can have characters who lie, but you can't really lie to your audience, that gets old.
Ben's already been surprised by events, so it's not like he's an omniscient being that can never be wrong. Even if it's true that he thinks he'll be physically banished, never to return, it's possible he's wrong. Or that the Rules will Change again.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
edit: also, completely unrelated to that. When Locke / Bentham Visited Walt / Jack / Kate / Whoever, I wonder if he was back in a wheelchair?
Good point. I also wonder that now. If so, that would've made for one uncomfortable crawl through the desert, or I guess whatever is halfway around the world from where the Island was at that point. Well, unless he didn't turn the wheel that is.
Ben's already been surprised by events, so it's not like he's an omniscient being that can never be wrong. Even if it's true that he thinks he'll be physically banished, never to return, it's possible he's wrong. Or that the Rules will Change again.
Right. There are 42 plausible reasons why Ben could end up back on the island. All of them will make me roll my eyes.
Sawyer deals with the otters, who (being led by Locke) aren't all that hostile to the survivors since they're not worried about being killed anymore. The have wacky adventures on the island, until
Alpert and company discover that Sawyer killed Cooper, not Locke. This bones up their whole leadership scheme (since apparently you have to kill your own father to lead the otters?). They get mondo-pissed at locke and make him return to the mainland to gather up the O6, so they can bring them back to the island and figure out which one of them is supposed to really be the leader.
edit: also, completely unrelated to that. When Locke / Bentham Visited Walt / Jack / Kate / Whoever, I wonder if he was back in a wheelchair?
Good point. I also wonder that now. If so, that would've made for one uncomfortable crawl through the desert, or I guess whatever is halfway around the world from where the Island was at that point. Well, unless he didn't turn the wheel that is.
If Locke was forcibly removed from the island it opens up the possibility that he could have died from getting 'unstuck' like Desmond and not being able to find his constant. That or he killed his constant (ie. his dad or Boone) on the island so he's basically screwed.
Didn't Jack or Kate refer to 'Bentham' as a raving lunatic at one point in the finale? Maybe he had gotten unstuck and since they didn't witness Desmond's episode they didn't realize what was happening.
Well I think Kate would have called john a lunatic regardless of how he was acting, assuming he said anything along the lines of "Take your three year-old adopted son whose ghost mother is haunting your dreams back to the island that you're determined never to return to"
And this idea that random characters can get unstuck in time without a constant is just silly. The only three characters we've seen who are affected are Desmond, Faraday, and the freighter's comms guy. Faraday was experimenting with the stuff to begin with, Desmond has some sort of natural vulnerability to the timeskips (evidenced by his visions before the accident in the helicoptor, which didn't affect Lapitas or Sayid), and the comms guy was just used by the writers to help explain Desmond's situation.
Sawyer deals with the otters, who (being led by Locke) aren't all that hostile to the survivors since they're not worried about being killed anymore. The have wacky adventures on the island, until
Alpert and company discover that Sawyer killed Cooper, not Locke. This bones up their whole leadership scheme (since apparently you have to kill your own father to lead the otters?). They get mondo-pissed at locke and make him return to the mainland to gather up the O6, so they can bring them back to the island and figure out which one of them is supposed to really be the leader.
It's obviously Sun
I know your spouting nonsense for the sake of it, but just so no one else gets any ideas. Alpert already knows Locke didn't kill his father. Alpert gave Locke the folder about Sawyer so that Locke could get Sawyer to do it. It was Alpert's idea, not Locke's
Ben's already been surprised by events, so it's not like he's an omniscient being that can never be wrong. Even if it's true that he thinks he'll be physically banished, never to return, it's possible he's wrong. Or that the Rules will Change again.
Right. There are 42 plausible reasons why Ben could end up back on the island. All of them will make me roll my eyes.
Does this mean the Infinite Improbability Drive is somehow involved?
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
also, approximately how many cool points did jack rack up when he rolled up to john's wake with the windows down pixies blaring hopped up on percocet with his don't give a fuck beard
Am I the only one who thinks the constants thing is done and dusted. Desmond needed a constant in order to anchor him in the present. Now that he is back in the present, he doesn't need a constant anymore. Penny dying will have no physical affect on Desmond.
Am I the only one who thinks the constants thing is done and dusted. Desmond needed a constant in order to anchor him in the present. Now that he is back in the present, he doesn't need a constant anymore. Penny dying will have no physical affect on Desmond.
Unless he tries to go back and hits the same trigger that unstuck him last time.
Am I the only one who thinks the constants thing is done and dusted. Desmond needed a constant in order to anchor him in the present. Now that he is back in the present, he doesn't need a constant anymore. Penny dying will have no physical affect on Desmond.
No - I think a lot of people just decided to cling to that as something incredibly important and the actual content of the show so far has given me no indication that it will be that crucial to the unfolding of the main story/plot. I think there will be more to it - just not nearly as much as some people seem to. You are not alone!
Everyone dies alone...
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
also, approximately how many cool points did jack rack up when he rolled up to john's wake with the windows down pixies blaring hopped up on percocet with his don't give a fuck beard
my cousin remarked that it appears everyone is a badass in the future. this really was only based on Sayid and Jack, though.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
on "moving the island"...
I think this was obvious so I haven't said it anywhere yet, but I want to know if this is the general consensus. It didn't seem to me they actually moved the island to a different location, but moved it in time somehow, as the video described with the bunnies. I obviously don't have much more to say on that because Id on't know how such a thing would work, but I was wondering if this was accepted as what happened, or if it makes sense but some people disagree, or if I'm just an idiot.
also, approximately how many cool points did jack rack up when he rolled up to john's wake with the windows down pixies blaring hopped up on percocet with his don't give a fuck beard
my cousin remarked that it appears everyone is a badass in the future. this really was only based on Sayid and Jack, though.
Posts
More "exotic matter", maybe?
I don't see yet how this would really tell us anything, but I think it's an interesting theory
edit: unrelated, there are a lot of people throwing around Hoffs Drawler anagrams as if they might mean something... most sensical one is "Flesh Forward", which would make an awesome name for a time-travelling Zombie film, my question, who the fuck is Hoffs Drawler
Why? At what point did the show ever give the impression that Ben could NEVER go back. Like, that there was some forcefield that would keep him out or something.
All we know is that moving the Island teleports you ... away from the Island. And that Ben may not know where it is now. And that Ben is no longer in favour with the Island and no longer the leader of the Others.
I think the idea is that well, that's essentially a bit of exposition; the writers are telling us, through Ben, the consequences of moving the Island. To renege on that is sort of to have lied to us.
However, if you put that in the context of a character arc where Ben decides he will damn well find a way to go back anyway, I think it's actually very decent storytelling.
Hoffs Drawler (or maybe it's Drawlar), is the name of the funeral home in the last two season finales. I had thought, back before the season when they ran those pop-up video type re-runs, that the anagram for it was F'lash Forward', which is why I suggest maybe it's actually Drawlar instead of Drawler.
Also, I think we're making it way too complicated and nitpicky w/ the whole ben can or can't return deal. It's as simple as this:
Step 1: turn wheel, move Island
Step 2: get transported to desert
Step 3: try and fail to find Island because, see Step 1...it moved
So I don't think it's that he's 100% banned from ever stepping foot on the Island again...it's just that, he now has to find it. And it's likely to be anywhere in the whole world for all we know. Why he claims to have 'ideas' and why he needs the Oceanic 6, is because he believes the Island did not intend for them to leave, and that given the right scenario, the Island will try to get them back. The Island does not want him and won't exert any effort to get him back, but if he's w/ the O6...then he might get taken along by default. It's also possible that it doesn't have to be 'all' of them, but he just doesn't know which one the island wants most, so he's going to include them all to be safe. Or maybe he thinks the island will 'try' harder to get them if he's got them all. A flaw in that logic could be Locke, since if he left the same way Ben did, then the island won't want him back either. Maybe he has a hunch that Locke left in a different way...or maybe it's because he's dead or something, dunno.
Man, sorry for the ramble.
edit: and damnit, I typed to long and was beaten by the postin' stick on my first point...
twit feed
Is there any correlation to the "Wheel of Dharma" from Bhuddism?
Yeah, but "Never return" in what sense.
I don't think it's a "The Island will physically prevent you from returning".
I think it's more "Your banished. Your no longer an Other. If you return, you'll be killed/whatever just like any other intruder".
That's something we basically have to work out from context. Because of the mystical-jacoby nature of what causes this to happen, my instinct is that the Island will do what it can to stop him from coming back.
I'm on board with the idea that if the Island wants the O6 bad enough, it'll take Ben back too; and that that's exactly what he's counting on in the flashforward.
Ben's already been surprised by events, so it's not like he's an omniscient being that can never be wrong. Even if it's true that he thinks he'll be physically banished, never to return, it's possible he's wrong. Or that the Rules will Change again.
There ya go, the four toe'd people are martians
edit: also, completely unrelated to that. When Locke / Bentham Visited Walt / Jack / Kate / Whoever, I wonder if he was back in a wheelchair?
Good point. I also wonder that now. If so, that would've made for one uncomfortable crawl through the desert, or I guess whatever is halfway around the world from where the Island was at that point. Well, unless he didn't turn the wheel that is.
twit feed
Sawyer deals with the otters, who (being led by Locke) aren't all that hostile to the survivors since they're not worried about being killed anymore. The have wacky adventures on the island, until
Alpert and company discover that Sawyer killed Cooper, not Locke. This bones up their whole leadership scheme (since apparently you have to kill your own father to lead the otters?). They get mondo-pissed at locke and make him return to the mainland to gather up the O6, so they can bring them back to the island and figure out which one of them is supposed to really be the leader.
If Locke was forcibly removed from the island it opens up the possibility that he could have died from getting 'unstuck' like Desmond and not being able to find his constant. That or he killed his constant (ie. his dad or Boone) on the island so he's basically screwed.
Didn't Jack or Kate refer to 'Bentham' as a raving lunatic at one point in the finale? Maybe he had gotten unstuck and since they didn't witness Desmond's episode they didn't realize what was happening.
wii code: 8041-7562-5268-4264
And this idea that random characters can get unstuck in time without a constant is just silly. The only three characters we've seen who are affected are Desmond, Faraday, and the freighter's comms guy. Faraday was experimenting with the stuff to begin with, Desmond has some sort of natural vulnerability to the timeskips (evidenced by his visions before the accident in the helicoptor, which didn't affect Lapitas or Sayid), and the comms guy was just used by the writers to help explain Desmond's situation.
Edit: His journal said "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant."
If. Will be. Nothing to indicate this already happened.
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:4x05_Journal_end.jpg
I'm guessing the same way he dealt with the polar bear...lots and lots of bullets
Personally, I'm betting this is what happened to the Red Shirt Boat. Only the others are going to die because they ain't got no constants.
Miles - Ghengis
Frank - Kenny Rogers
I know your spouting nonsense for the sake of it, but just so no one else gets any ideas. Alpert already knows Locke didn't kill his father. Alpert gave Locke the folder about Sawyer so that Locke could get Sawyer to do it. It was Alpert's idea, not Locke's
Ha! I knew that had to exist somewhere
edit: I love how long the Hurley section is, also I don't remember him calling Locke "Gimpy McCrutch" but that's pretty great too.
that youtube of sawer's nicknames is pretty funny too
Does this mean the Infinite Improbability Drive is somehow involved?
XBL: Slimebucato
Yeah. Smooth move, Jack.
cool points off the charts
seriously i can't think of anything cooler off the top of my head
XBL: Slimebucato
I tried and can't think of a good explanation why, but that sounds right to me
Unless he tries to go back and hits the same trigger that unstuck him last time.
that time travelling constant stuff is too heady too wrap my head around
XBL: Slimebucato
No - I think a lot of people just decided to cling to that as something incredibly important and the actual content of the show so far has given me no indication that it will be that crucial to the unfolding of the main story/plot. I think there will be more to it - just not nearly as much as some people seem to. You are not alone!
my cousin remarked that it appears everyone is a badass in the future. this really was only based on Sayid and Jack, though.
and Sun
and Ben