I am so pumped for Dragon Age 2, the game where Obsidian takes Bioware's original game and makes it like 50% better! I can't wait for all the fun references to Dragon Age 1.
I guess I'll have to play Dragon Age 1 to get to #2, though. Oh well.
Actually I love Bioware games but mostly I just get excited about the possibility of Obsidian making the sequel. See: KOTOR2, NWN2.
I love KOTOR 2 and all but...what?
The odds of this are astronomically small given that Dragon Age is Bioware's own IP, much like Mass Effect. It has no relation to D&D and Wizards of the Coast.
To be honest I'm getting a little tired of dwarves. The stereotype of elves gets played with now and then, but dwarves? They never
ever
change.
I'd like to see Dwarves has Machiavellian bastards who are really pale, have black hair, and can't go out in sunlight without being hurt.
One idea I saw tossed around was Dwarves as dominant traders of the realm and a massively mercantile society, with little emphasis on a warrior tradition if any. I kind of liked that.
To be honest I'm getting a little tired of dwarves. The stereotype of elves gets played with now and then, but dwarves? They never
ever
change.
I'd like to see Dwarves has Machiavellian bastards who are really pale, have black hair, and can't go out in sunlight without being hurt.
One idea I saw tossed around was Dwarves as dominant traders of the realm and a massively mercantile society, with little emphasis on a warrior tradition if any. I kind of liked that.
Seriously though, I hope Bioware remembers that the reason that Baldur's Gates 1 and 2 were good was because they were classic dungeon crawls done perfectly, not because they had good/evil gimmicks.
To be honest I'm getting a little tired of dwarves. The stereotype of elves gets played with now and then, but dwarves? They never
ever
change.
I'd like to see Dwarves has Machiavellian bastards who are really pale, have black hair, and can't go out in sunlight without being hurt.
One idea I saw tossed around was Dwarves as dominant traders of the realm and a massively mercantile society, with little emphasis on a warrior tradition if any. I kind of liked that.
So basically gnomes.
Sure. Dwarves look the part of an industrious sort better, and we could do with less midgets anyhow. Condense condense condense.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attribute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attirubute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 1 didn't have any of those things. Sure 2 was better than 1 because of those additions, but 1 is still better than anything else Bioware has put out.
Needs more of the game aspect of roleplaying game, less trying hard to be Fallout and failing. Though, Mass Effect was definitely the best in that direction, and a good game.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attirubute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 1 didn't have any of those things. Sure 2 was better than 1 because of those additions, but 1 is still better than anything else Bioware has put out.
You are going to have a staggeringly difficult time convincing people of that.
I remember when Mass Effect was in development (exclusive 360) and Bioware placated the PC crowd by saying this would be a PC exclusive.
Years later Mass Effect has been released on the PC and we still haven't got an update about Dragon Age.
I thought that they had already announced that this was only going to be a time limited exclusivity, like with ME?
If they haven't, it's not hard to guess that's what they're going to do anyway.
From what little we know, it doesn't sound like a console-friendly game. That could be entirely wrong, though. Also, Bioware hasn't released something to just PC or Xbox in a while.
I remember when Mass Effect was in development (exclusive 360) and Bioware placated the PC crowd by saying this would be a PC exclusive.
Years later Mass Effect has been released on the PC and we still haven't got an update about Dragon Age.
I thought that they had already announced that this was only going to be a time limited exclusivity, like with ME?
If they haven't, it's not hard to guess that's what they're going to do anyway.
From what little we know, it doesn't sound like a console-friendly game. That could be entirely wrong, though. Also, Bioware hasn't released something to just PC or Xbox in a while.
I really hope that this one makes it to consoles at some point, because I highly doubt my PC will run it.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attirubute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 1 didn't have any of those things. Sure 2 was better than 1 because of those additions, but 1 is still better than anything else Bioware has put out.
You are going to have a staggeringly difficult time convincing people of that.
Anyone who actually thinks Neverwinter Nights is anywhere near as good as Baldur's Gate is already beyond hope.
Kotor's good as an interactive story, but the gameplay is watered down to the point of boredom. Mass Effect is actually an amazing action-rpg. I wouldn't compare it directly to BG, though.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attirubute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 1 didn't have any of those things. Sure 2 was better than 1 because of those additions, but 1 is still better than anything else Bioware has put out.
You are going to have a staggeringly difficult time convincing people of that.
Anyone who actually thinks Neverwinter Nights is anywhere near as good as Baldur's Gate is already beyond hope.
Kotor's good as an interactive story, but the gameplay is watered down to the point of boredom. Mass Effect is actually an amazing action-rpg. I wouldn't compare it directly to BG, though.
Actually it turns out I misread a part of your post. Hilarity.
I remember when Mass Effect was in development (exclusive 360) and Bioware placated the PC crowd by saying this would be a PC exclusive.
Years later Mass Effect has been released on the PC and we still haven't got an update about Dragon Age.
I thought that they had already announced that this was only going to be a time limited exclusivity, like with ME?
If they haven't, it's not hard to guess that's what they're going to do anyway.
From what little we know, it doesn't sound like a console-friendly game. That could be entirely wrong, though. Also, Bioware hasn't released something to just PC or Xbox in a while.
I'm pretty sure that one of the earlier interviews had them acknowledging that the controller doesn't have nearly the number of buttons that a kb has, and that dragon age is going to be designed from the ground up to take advantage of that. Of course, they've shown that they are pretty good at adapting control schemes now with how well MEPC controls.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attribute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Meanwhile, a lot of the black isle people went to make obsidian and trokia, both of which have all that great writing and ploting, but lack the polish and balance that was in BG2 (kensai/mage excepted)
I met with a guy at GDC who was working on this game. The info dump's a little bit alter than he told me, but the game got pushed back so I'm not surprised.
I'm really pumped for this game pretty much solely because of my discussions with him.
One of the gaming magazines did an exclusive on the game a while back and they mentioned that the combat would be similar to the cave troll fight in Fellowship of the Ring.
Baldur's Gate 2 was great because it actually had well-written characters, dialogue and plot.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attribute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Black Isle actually worked on in the Baldur's Gate games (and it's incredibly common). The writing teams were not from Black Isle. They were BioWare employees.
Black Isle handled a lot of the publisher's responsibilities (being owned by the publisher), and contributed a lot to the games, but they did not write them. They did not make the engine. They did not design the games.
But at least some of the BG2 team are working on Dragon Age. BG2's lead writer, who was also lead designer of Throne of Bhaal, is the lead writer of Dragon Age, for instance.
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Well that's the thing with really high quality games, surpassing them isn't done with ease, even if you have more advanced tools and setting your expectations too high will get you disappointed more often than not. Besides, most people here seem pretty optimistic. I am, well at least until they announce a console version.
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
And yet, they don't.
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Black Isle actually worked on in the Baldur's Gate games (and it's incredibly common). The writing teams were not from Black Isle. They were BioWare employees.
Black Isle handled a lot of the publisher's responsibilities (being owned by the publisher), and contributed a lot to the games, but they did not write them. They did not make the engine. They did not design the games.
But comparing all other work by the respective companies invovled, I suspect they had more involvement than is officially the case.
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Baldurs Gate 2 has been surpassed in one department or another many times over the years, the total sum of its parts however....has not.
I think there's a joke that says dwarven women exist, but they are hard to tell apart from the dwarven men.
It's not a joke. In a lot of the fantasy settings that talk about or depict dwarven women, they usually have beards.
Sometimes they're removed to make it less weird for people, though. Such as in D&D PC games. Outside of those games, dwarven women are depicted as being bearded, but in those games, dwarven woman are always sans beard.
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Story is an afterthought in good RPG games. Its just like music and ambience, it enhances the total effect, it doesn't make it. No one claims that this aspect can't be done better. At least, I don't.
As for "huge info dumps that people mistake for character development", are you referring to Mass Effect, released last year?
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Story is an afterthought in good RPG games. Its just like music and ambience, it enhances the total effect, it doesn't make it. No one claims that this aspect can't be done better. At least, I don't.
As for "huge info dumps that people mistake for character development", are you referring to Mass Effect, released last year?
The true master of the "EXPOSITION=QUALITY" will always be the JRPG.
I swear those games have a PHOBIA of the old saying "Show, don't tell".
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Story is an afterthought in good RPG games. Its just like music and ambience, it enhances the total effect, it doesn't make it. No one claims that this aspect can't be done better. At least, I don't.
As for "huge info dumps that people mistake for character development", are you referring to Mass Effect, released last year?
The true master of the "EXPOSITION=QUALITY" will always be the JRPG.
I swear those games have a PHOBIA of the old saying "Show, don't tell".
Its like all the devs went "Say, people like this whole 'story' thing we threw in with our 16 bit games, lets take that and run with it with slow, drawn out in-game cutscenes that last forever!".
I still love my 16 bit final fantasies, with thier relatively short, but still charming, character development. The 32 bit and later stuff, though? Liked it at the time, but its so slow and boring now.
DisruptorX2 on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I love how people just assume that there will never be another game to equal those old RPGs as far as writing is concerned. Surely they haven't hired any new talent in ten years.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
Baldurs Gate 2 has been surpassed in one department or another many times over the years, the total sum of its parts however....has not.
Does that make sense?
Makes sense to me. Though BG2 has yet to be surpassed in the "Greatest Villain" category.
I hope Dragon Age has a good number of party members and that you cannot have them all with you at once. Oh also, I hope you are not forced to take in all recruitable NPCs. . . basically I want to pick and choose who I have in my entourage, if I don't like someone I want to be able to kick them to the wayside. None of this, "Oh sure random dude, you can come with me, just stay in this ship / inn while I save the galaxy / Faerun though."
Axen on
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I love KOTOR 2 and all but...what?
The odds of this are astronomically small given that Dragon Age is Bioware's own IP, much like Mass Effect. It has no relation to D&D and Wizards of the Coast.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Fixed.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I'd like to see Dwarves has Machiavellian bastards who are really pale, have black hair, and can't go out in sunlight without being hurt.
One idea I saw tossed around was Dwarves as dominant traders of the realm and a massively mercantile society, with little emphasis on a warrior tradition if any. I kind of liked that.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Also, dwarves hair color can vary greatly, from brown to black to reddish.
I mean, come on! How much more variety do you want?
You're a weird little dude, you know that?
So basically gnomes.
Seriously though, I hope Bioware remembers that the reason that Baldur's Gates 1 and 2 were good was because they were classic dungeon crawls done perfectly, not because they had good/evil gimmicks.
Also, those 2004 "screenshots" really aren't. They're Aurora Engine pre-viz stuff or something.
Sure. Dwarves look the part of an industrious sort better, and we could do with less midgets anyhow. Condense condense condense.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Years later Mass Effect has been released on the PC and we still haven't got an update about Dragon Age.
Bioware haven't been able to manage anything on the same standards since, and I'm inclined to attribute that to the absence of Black Isle.
Nontheless, I retain some optimism this might be the next RPG with characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts.
Baldur's Gate 1 didn't have any of those things. Sure 2 was better than 1 because of those additions, but 1 is still better than anything else Bioware has put out.
Needs more of the game aspect of roleplaying game, less trying hard to be Fallout and failing. Though, Mass Effect was definitely the best in that direction, and a good game.
You are going to have a staggeringly difficult time convincing people of that.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I thought that they had already announced that this was only going to be a time limited exclusivity, like with ME?
If they haven't, it's not hard to guess that's what they're going to do anyway.
From what little we know, it doesn't sound like a console-friendly game. That could be entirely wrong, though. Also, Bioware hasn't released something to just PC or Xbox in a while.
Non sequitor?
I really hope that this one makes it to consoles at some point, because I highly doubt my PC will run it.
Anyone who actually thinks Neverwinter Nights is anywhere near as good as Baldur's Gate is already beyond hope.
Kotor's good as an interactive story, but the gameplay is watered down to the point of boredom. Mass Effect is actually an amazing action-rpg. I wouldn't compare it directly to BG, though.
Actually it turns out I misread a part of your post. Hilarity.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I'm pretty sure that one of the earlier interviews had them acknowledging that the controller doesn't have nearly the number of buttons that a kb has, and that dragon age is going to be designed from the ground up to take advantage of that. Of course, they've shown that they are pretty good at adapting control schemes now with how well MEPC controls.
Meanwhile, a lot of the black isle people went to make obsidian and trokia, both of which have all that great writing and ploting, but lack the polish and balance that was in BG2 (kensai/mage excepted)
I'm really pumped for this game pretty much solely because of my discussions with him.
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Black Isle actually worked on in the Baldur's Gate games (and it's incredibly common). The writing teams were not from Black Isle. They were BioWare employees.
Black Isle handled a lot of the publisher's responsibilities (being owned by the publisher), and contributed a lot to the games, but they did not write them. They did not make the engine. They did not design the games.
But at least some of the BG2 team are working on Dragon Age. BG2's lead writer, who was also lead designer of Throne of Bhaal, is the lead writer of Dragon Age, for instance.
The truth is with the ability to animate characters and facial expressions they can do more with story than they could before. And they can do it with some subtlety like leaving out the huge info dumps that people mistake for character development in those older games.
And yet, they don't.
But comparing all other work by the respective companies invovled, I suspect they had more involvement than is officially the case.
Baldurs Gate 2 has been surpassed in one department or another many times over the years, the total sum of its parts however....has not.
Does that make sense?
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I think there's a joke that says dwarven women exist, but they are hard to tell apart from the dwarven men.
It's not a joke. In a lot of the fantasy settings that talk about or depict dwarven women, they usually have beards.
Sometimes they're removed to make it less weird for people, though. Such as in D&D PC games. Outside of those games, dwarven women are depicted as being bearded, but in those games, dwarven woman are always sans beard.
Story is an afterthought in good RPG games. Its just like music and ambience, it enhances the total effect, it doesn't make it. No one claims that this aspect can't be done better. At least, I don't.
As for "huge info dumps that people mistake for character development", are you referring to Mass Effect, released last year?
The true master of the "EXPOSITION=QUALITY" will always be the JRPG.
I swear those games have a PHOBIA of the old saying "Show, don't tell".
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Its like all the devs went "Say, people like this whole 'story' thing we threw in with our 16 bit games, lets take that and run with it with slow, drawn out in-game cutscenes that last forever!".
I still love my 16 bit final fantasies, with thier relatively short, but still charming, character development. The 32 bit and later stuff, though? Liked it at the time, but its so slow and boring now.
Makes sense to me. Though BG2 has yet to be surpassed in the "Greatest Villain" category.
I hope Dragon Age has a good number of party members and that you cannot have them all with you at once. Oh also, I hope you are not forced to take in all recruitable NPCs. . . basically I want to pick and choose who I have in my entourage, if I don't like someone I want to be able to kick them to the wayside. None of this, "Oh sure random dude, you can come with me, just stay in this ship / inn while I save the galaxy / Faerun though."