So, Epic is withholding several maps and giving buyers of a new copy a one-time code to unlock them.
They just saved me $60. Someone else can stand between Epic, EA, and Gamestop while they have their pissing match. I'll rent it for the single-player eventually.
What? The idea is to encourage you to buy a new copy rather than pre-owned. It's far better than them pissing and moaning about pre-owned sales and taking other methods. Grow up and deal with it.
i am excited for this game and will get it.
i think that's bullshit though. way to screw the game retailers out of their main source of income, used games. i hope more companies don't start doing this. i like having game stores and not having to go to wal-mart and such.
Well for one thing, game stores are middlemen, especially in the age of DD, and I'm not going to weep if a few shops go out of business. Game's stores existed way before they got organised about hand-ins and made the second hand market their primary business model, and they'll adapt again should that market become less relevant. Realistically though, the second hand market is here to stay.
This measure's not really going to really have much of an effect on the stores. The vast majority of people who buy and sell second hand are still going to do so, and I don't see that stopping on account of a few maps. What this measure does is encourages a few more people to buy first hand, especially if they're really into the game and there's no a perceived benefit of buying it first hand instead of getting it at a discount second hand. I can't honestly see it having a major impact on second-hand sales of the game, except that there might be a slight decrease for the title, and more importantly, there may be an increase in the number of first hand sales, which is what really needs to be taken into account. Sure, not as profitable for the games stores, tough poop, they exist because of the games industry, they ought to know by now that they can't have a business if they can't sell games in the first place.
One thing I would say is that the additional maps are only going to exist for as long as they're supported on XBL. Once that goes, so too do the maps. Which is really a moot point anyway, since if the game stops being supported on XBL or XBL goes under then you won't be able to play multiplayer as it is, that's just the way the consoles roll.
Really. I don't think this map is so much for the people who look at a used copy of GoW2 and see it for 30-35 while a new copy is around 50. I think it's for the first weeks sell when people see the game full price for 60 and the used one going for 52-55...so they'll stop and say "Hmm...for an extra 5 bucks I get 5 extra maps, not a bad deal."
But really people have been agruing back and forth about what they perceive should have been "in-disc" product every since DLC got big on consoles this generation, so I doubt it's going to stop anytime soon.
I wonder if for Gears 3, the entire online multiplayer part itself of the game will have to be "unlocked" by a code.
They could just call it "registering your online account" or "associating your Live Gamertag" and I bet nobody would care.
PC games have had CD keys needed for online multiplayer for a long time now. I'm calling it now, the same thing will happen for consoles except it will be Live-account-specific.
Yeah, except PC CD keys are- with a few exceptions- transferable. This is just Epic being a dick to people who want to re-sell.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I wonder if for Gears 3, the entire online multiplayer part itself of the game will have to be "unlocked" by a code.
They could just call it "registering your online account" or "associating your Live Gamertag" and I bet nobody would care.
PC games have had CD keys needed for online multiplayer for a long time now. I'm calling it now, the same thing will happen for consoles except it will be Live-account-specific.
From what I understand, aren't CD keys put on discs as a sort of DRM to make sure the game wasn't just downloaded off the net and to check if you own the disc or something? Really, I don't think that applies to consoles at the moment unless it's been modded or something(or is the Dreamcast). Also, CD keys don't just work on one computer last I remember, I mean I got all my brother's old PC games and they work just fine.
Also, internet overexaggerations are funny. Every moment is a "The sky is falling" moment.
Yeah, except PC CD keys are- with a few exceptions- transferable. This is just Epic being a dick to people who want to re-sell.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
Well you know the game industry is different because it's not any different and they can deal with it to, it's not the end of the world for having used games but it's seemingly more and more like it is.
Yeah, except PC CD keys are- with a few exceptions- transferable. This is just Epic being a dick to people who want to re-sell.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
Newsflash. Cars and books age. Digital media does not.
Rakai on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
I wonder if for Gears 3, the entire online multiplayer part itself of the game will have to be "unlocked" by a code.
They could just call it "registering your online account" or "associating your Live Gamertag" and I bet nobody would care.
PC games have had CD keys needed for online multiplayer for a long time now. I'm calling it now, the same thing will happen for consoles except it will be Live-account-specific.
From what I understand, aren't CD keys put on discs as a sort of DRM to make sure the game wasn't just downloaded off the net and to check if you own the disc or something? Really, I don't think that applies to consoles at the moment unless it's been modded or something(or is the Dreamcast). Also, CD keys don't just work on one computer last I remember, I mean I got all my brother's old PC games and they work just fine.
Also, internet overexaggerations are funny. Every moment is a "The sky is falling" moment.
I know how PC game CD Keys function.
I'm drawing a comparison between a code redeemable on Xbox Live and a CD key, because I think they could be used to perform very similar functions. Without a CD key you can't do multiplayer in many PC games. A redeemable Xbox Live code could be used the same way. Where the software (disc, internet) comes from is irrelevant, and I don't see what the age of the game has to do with anything.
People are complaining about requiring a unique code to access multiplayer content, but in fact the PC has been doing that exact thing for years with the CD key system. The difference is, due to the way online access on consoles is set up through accounts, that would make the unique code not shareable.
Okay, so...
1. Some publishers are probably feeling the same way about used game sales as they do about a game downloaded through the internet. Either way, somebody gets their game, but they don't get paid for it. Etc, etc.
2. Since online access on consoles works different than on PCs, a "CD key"-like type of code would have to be account specific or else it wouldn't really function. They already have this whole account & code -based system, so they would use that. (Once the code is entered, no one else's account could use it. And since it's attached to a person's account, it would be the exact same as automatically re-entering a CD key on a PC game, like if you install the game on a different computer.)
I'm not saying the sky is falling. I'm at least sort of trying not to commit the slippery slope fallacy. I'm just saying the system structure is already fully in place to restrict more than just maps to a one-person-only code.
I don't actually have any idea if this is how they will do it. I don't actually have the skill or info to reliably predict saying they will do it this way. I'm just saying this is one way it could be done.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2008
Oh, I get what you're saying.
Well, I guess it's just the faith I have in the free market. I believe that if they were to put something bullshitty like that then the average consumer would call them on their bullshit with their wallets/complaints. I don't really think we're anywhere near there though, so I don't see it as much of a concern yet.
And really I just look at the maps in Gears fundamentally different than some other people look at it and I think that's where the disagreement comes from.
One side looks at it as something that's being taken out of the game.
The other side looks at it as something that rewards first-hand buyers.
Well, I guess it's just the faith I have in the free market. I believe that if they were to put something bullshitty like that then the average consumer would call them on their bullshit with their wallets/complaints. I don't really think we're anywhere near there though, so I don't see it as much of a concern yet.
And really I just look at the maps in Gears fundamentally different than some other people look at it and I think that's where the disagreement comes from.
One side looks at it as something that's being taken out of the game.
The other side looks at it as something that rewards first-hand buyers.
That's where the disagreement lies I believe.
My theoretical worry is that IF they did that kind of system, people wouldn't automatically revolt because they're already used to the CD key for multi system that computers have. I don't think most people would pay attention to a game long enough for the non-transferability of the "key code" to become an objectionable issue.
Then again, people do have very different expectations of a console than of the way the PC does things, so maybe they would object. There's some hope.
It became sort of hard to keep faith in the free market and the average consumer when word got out how popular "2 sets of horse armour for a single-player RPG" and "pay for XP and weapon unlocks" DLC things were on Xbox Live.
Yeah, except PC CD keys are- with a few exceptions- transferable. This is just Epic being a dick to people who want to re-sell.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
Newsflash. Cars and books age. Digital media does not.
Oh, bull. You're saying I could re-release System Shock 2 right now and get people to pay $50 for it? Don't think so.
And if you're talking about breaking down physically- DVDs do that too. FASTER than books, actually. I've got 50 year old books laying around in near perfect shape; I'm betting that 50 years from now most DVDs will be unreadable from format changes and general degradation.
Plus the used market hurts books arguably worse, because of paperback/hardcover distinctions. Gee, I can buy a new paperback for $8 or I can get the same book, read once, in hardcover for...$8. Or a used paperback for $4.
Yeah, except PC CD keys are- with a few exceptions- transferable. This is just Epic being a dick to people who want to re-sell.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
Newsflash. Cars and books age. Digital media does not.
Oh, bull. You're saying I could re-release System Shock 2 right now and get people to pay $50 for it? Don't think so.
And if you're talking about breaking down physically- DVDs do that too. FASTER than books, actually. I've got 50 year old books laying around in near perfect shape; I'm betting that 50 years from now most DVDs will be unreadable from format changes and general degradation.
Plus the used market hurts books arguably worse, because of paperback/hardcover distinctions. Gee, I can buy a new paperback for $8 or I can get the same book, read once, in hardcover for...$8. Or a used paperback for $4.
You're not even trying or you're intentionally being dense. First off, beyond 10 years the used market is non-existent outside of collectors. Second, books break down MUCH faster than digital media if it sees any kind of use. It's impossible to tell if a disk has been played unless someone physically damages it. The game runs just the same used as it does new. My PS1 games run identically to the day they were purchased. If a 50 year old book is in decent shape, that's because it never gets touched. A game can be used every day by a hundred different people and nobody can tell the difference.
Edit: While you're at it. Point me in the direction of a used book sale company that pulls in billions in revenue.
Rakai on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
Chances are, they're gonna release them for the public after a year of its release anyway.
Hopefully. But right now, Epic is saying the pack won't ever be available separately. I don't have a problem with content being offered for sale separately and packaged for free with a sealed copy. In fact, I'd welcome it as a kind of soft royalty system on the resale market. I just don't like the idea of a retail copy of a game being permanently locked out of content and out of particular online matches by a transfer of ownership.
Hopefully. But right now, Epic is saying the pack won't ever be available separately. I don't have a problem with content being offered for sale separately and packaged for free with a sealed copy. In fact, I'd welcome it as a kind of soft royalty system on the resale market. I just don't like the idea of a retail copy of a game being permanently locked out of content and out of particular online matches by a transfer of ownership.
I understand, but it's just an attempt at trying to get people to buy new copies. It's a big deal for people who was looking forward to buying the game used, but for the ones who are anticipating the game and plans on buying the game new, it's not a big problem.
Epic is just trying to earn more money and reward their fans for buying the game new. I see it more as a parallel to giving a gift to early birds, or a pre-order bonus. The perma-lock irks me a little, but I wouldn't jump the gun and rule out the possibility of the maps being distributed publicly in the future, when GOW2 has aged enough.
In essence, I really don't see it as DRM, it's more like a gift to a new user and a bummer to the old. Besides, DRMs don't really help developers earn money, they penalize fans more than anything else. Epic's rewarding fans who are willing to save up some cash, adopt the game early and show them their support.
How did we even get onto DRM? Gears has basically nothing to do with it.
someone was complaining that they would have to pay full price for a video game to get the complete content package.
I mean, I am staggered by this but I swear it is the truth.
It's not a big deal, at all really. I mean, you know, fuck gears multiplayer. It is all about co-op.
But, I just do not like where this is going. I wanna be able to buy used games in the future without getting screwed out of some possibly good content that i'd care about.
I feel dirty trading them in. They are precious gems to me! And any gem I can find for the right price will do. I don't care if a filthy gypsy sells me the game.
We should talk about the actual game, though, right?
I hope that co-op is as tasty as it was in the first game.
Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited October 2008
I cannot see any reason this game isn't going to kick copious amounts of ass. The first one was breathtaking and it looks like they are taking everything that worked in the first game and improving on it.
An all Mortar game, if the match options are a bit more tweakable this time around that is. Choose a nice large map and go to town on each other. Dodging out the way while trying to set up your own shots would be fantastic.
You can fire the mulcher from the hip. Eight different flavours of badass. Though it is like the TF2 mini gun. takes a second to spin up and you move and turn a lot slower. but oh lord.
Posts
you can double team dudes with chainsaws
Really. I don't think this map is so much for the people who look at a used copy of GoW2 and see it for 30-35 while a new copy is around 50. I think it's for the first weeks sell when people see the game full price for 60 and the used one going for 52-55...so they'll stop and say "Hmm...for an extra 5 bucks I get 5 extra maps, not a bad deal."
But really people have been agruing back and forth about what they perceive should have been "in-disc" product every since DLC got big on consoles this generation, so I doubt it's going to stop anytime soon.
They could just call it "registering your online account" or "associating your Live Gamertag" and I bet nobody would care.
PC games have had CD keys needed for online multiplayer for a long time now. I'm calling it now, the same thing will happen for consoles except it will be Live-account-specific.
(I have no idea why the game industry bitches about that so much. News flash guys, it didn't kill the car industry, book publishers are still around, so are movies studios...you can deal with it too).
From what I understand, aren't CD keys put on discs as a sort of DRM to make sure the game wasn't just downloaded off the net and to check if you own the disc or something? Really, I don't think that applies to consoles at the moment unless it's been modded or something(or is the Dreamcast). Also, CD keys don't just work on one computer last I remember, I mean I got all my brother's old PC games and they work just fine.
Also, internet overexaggerations are funny. Every moment is a "The sky is falling" moment.
Well you know the game industry is different because it's not any different and they can deal with it to, it's not the end of the world for having used games but it's seemingly more and more like it is.
Newsflash. Cars and books age. Digital media does not.
I know how PC game CD Keys function.
I'm drawing a comparison between a code redeemable on Xbox Live and a CD key, because I think they could be used to perform very similar functions. Without a CD key you can't do multiplayer in many PC games. A redeemable Xbox Live code could be used the same way. Where the software (disc, internet) comes from is irrelevant, and I don't see what the age of the game has to do with anything.
People are complaining about requiring a unique code to access multiplayer content, but in fact the PC has been doing that exact thing for years with the CD key system. The difference is, due to the way online access on consoles is set up through accounts, that would make the unique code not shareable.
1. Some publishers are probably feeling the same way about used game sales as they do about a game downloaded through the internet. Either way, somebody gets their game, but they don't get paid for it. Etc, etc.
2. Since online access on consoles works different than on PCs, a "CD key"-like type of code would have to be account specific or else it wouldn't really function. They already have this whole account & code -based system, so they would use that. (Once the code is entered, no one else's account could use it. And since it's attached to a person's account, it would be the exact same as automatically re-entering a CD key on a PC game, like if you install the game on a different computer.)
I'm not saying the sky is falling. I'm at least sort of trying not to commit the slippery slope fallacy. I'm just saying the system structure is already fully in place to restrict more than just maps to a one-person-only code.
I don't actually have any idea if this is how they will do it. I don't actually have the skill or info to reliably predict saying they will do it this way. I'm just saying this is one way it could be done.
Well, I guess it's just the faith I have in the free market. I believe that if they were to put something bullshitty like that then the average consumer would call them on their bullshit with their wallets/complaints. I don't really think we're anywhere near there though, so I don't see it as much of a concern yet.
And really I just look at the maps in Gears fundamentally different than some other people look at it and I think that's where the disagreement comes from.
One side looks at it as something that's being taken out of the game.
The other side looks at it as something that rewards first-hand buyers.
That's where the disagreement lies I believe.
My theoretical worry is that IF they did that kind of system, people wouldn't automatically revolt because they're already used to the CD key for multi system that computers have. I don't think most people would pay attention to a game long enough for the non-transferability of the "key code" to become an objectionable issue.
Then again, people do have very different expectations of a console than of the way the PC does things, so maybe they would object. There's some hope.
It became sort of hard to keep faith in the free market and the average consumer when word got out how popular "2 sets of horse armour for a single-player RPG" and "pay for XP and weapon unlocks" DLC things were on Xbox Live.
Oh, bull. You're saying I could re-release System Shock 2 right now and get people to pay $50 for it? Don't think so.
And if you're talking about breaking down physically- DVDs do that too. FASTER than books, actually. I've got 50 year old books laying around in near perfect shape; I'm betting that 50 years from now most DVDs will be unreadable from format changes and general degradation.
Plus the used market hurts books arguably worse, because of paperback/hardcover distinctions. Gee, I can buy a new paperback for $8 or I can get the same book, read once, in hardcover for...$8. Or a used paperback for $4.
You're not even trying or you're intentionally being dense. First off, beyond 10 years the used market is non-existent outside of collectors. Second, books break down MUCH faster than digital media if it sees any kind of use. It's impossible to tell if a disk has been played unless someone physically damages it. The game runs just the same used as it does new. My PS1 games run identically to the day they were purchased. If a 50 year old book is in decent shape, that's because it never gets touched. A game can be used every day by a hundred different people and nobody can tell the difference.
Edit: While you're at it. Point me in the direction of a used book sale company that pulls in billions in revenue.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Come the next generation, you too shall know DRM's sting...
someone was complaining that they would have to pay full price for a video game to get the complete content package.
I mean, I am staggered by this but I swear it is the truth.
Live snakes?
Actually they're getting more than the complete package, they're getting 5 extra maps from the first game!
seriously if you melee those white dog exploding things they go FLYING
but the site is all the way over there
all those stairs
No, I am saying, we should not be so quick to embrace a DRM scheme simply because it is disguised as an added value for new buyers.
So that's an endorsement of piracy? You sound like a lobbyist for the RIAA or MPAA.
Nobody's mind is going to change either way, and I've said my piece.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Like how they released the free maps for Gears after the period of you having to pay.
Hopefully. But right now, Epic is saying the pack won't ever be available separately. I don't have a problem with content being offered for sale separately and packaged for free with a sealed copy. In fact, I'd welcome it as a kind of soft royalty system on the resale market. I just don't like the idea of a retail copy of a game being permanently locked out of content and out of particular online matches by a transfer of ownership.
Epic is just trying to earn more money and reward their fans for buying the game new. I see it more as a parallel to giving a gift to early birds, or a pre-order bonus. The perma-lock irks me a little, but I wouldn't jump the gun and rule out the possibility of the maps being distributed publicly in the future, when GOW2 has aged enough.
In essence, I really don't see it as DRM, it's more like a gift to a new user and a bummer to the old. Besides, DRMs don't really help developers earn money, they penalize fans more than anything else. Epic's rewarding fans who are willing to save up some cash, adopt the game early and show them their support.
It's not a big deal, at all really. I mean, you know, fuck gears multiplayer. It is all about co-op.
But, I just do not like where this is going. I wanna be able to buy used games in the future without getting screwed out of some possibly good content that i'd care about.
We should talk about the actual game, though, right?
I hope that co-op is as tasty as it was in the first game.
Final Fantasy XI -> Carbuncle - Samash
Don't watch if you are in any kind of media blackout.
Do watch if you want to see new enemies and new vehicles.
(October 6th Video Preview)
it's funny because i know i'll buy it and love it, but i am just not 'excited' for this game
EDIT: Nevermind I just watched that preview. I'm definitely having second thoughts.
Also: holeeeee shiite
spoilers contained within
Holy shit. :shock:
This is going to be one of the best game I've ever played, again, isn't it?
Going to need to book some time off work.
The reavers...
yes.