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A 100-0 win isn't christ like?

noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
edited January 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
So this is happening in my neck of the woods, and I found it kinda interesting, so here I am wondering about other people's reaction.

Basically, Micah Grimes used to coach The Covenant School Woman's basketball team, and in a game with another school, his team won 100-0, as apparently there isn't a mercy rule in basketball.

The Covenant School then quickly posted a statement on their website, saying ""It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christlike and honorable approach to competition," , signed by the Headmaster of the school, and the head of the board of director.

Grimes then wrote an editorial to the Dallas News
"In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed," Grimes wrote in the e-mail, according to the newspaper. "We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity."

Aftewards, Grimes was let go of his coaching position, although the School refuses to say whether the decision to let him go was influenced by his editorial.

To add another quirk to the whole thing, in almost every article, it is pointed out that their competitor was a special school for slow learners and disabilities, and that they team had a total of eight people, out of the 20 women that attend the school.
Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia.

So several questions-

Should Grimes have stopped the game after he saw there was no way for the other team to catch up?
Is it really bad form not to? To the point where the school is asking to forfeit that victory?

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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I don't know why retarded kids are playing with normies

    Variable on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Variable wrote: »
    I don't know why retarded kids are playing with normies

    This, pretty much. The match-up shouldn't have happened.

    KalTorak on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    Well it's basically a no win situation, and we're missing information. Was he playing first stringers til the end of the game, or did he let everyone on the team play?

    If he had asked to end the game early, you can bet that people would have seen it as an insult, too. "Oh, you just want to end it because you feel the special kids should just go home"

    FyreWulff on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    This is pretty despicable. Religion aside, it's poor sportsmanship and a really bad example to set for your young competitors.

    Medopine on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The score was deliberately run up. The crowd and the assistant coach were pushing the team to score 100 points. After they were up 59-0 at halftime they should have backed off, but they didn't. It became about humiliation, showing just how much better they were.

    That's not honor and integrity and while I don't blame the Covenant players themselves, the coach should have said he made a mistake in not reigning his team in.

    Note: The losing team has never once complained - the controversy has entirely come from the media.

    Nova_C on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Whoo Dallas!

    Quid on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    Nova_C wrote: »
    The score was deliberately run up. The crowd and the assistant coach were pushing the team to score 100 points. After they were up 59-0 at halftime they should have backed off, but they didn't. It became about humiliation, showing just how much better they were.

    That's not honor and integrity and while I don't blame the Covenant players themselves, the coach should have said he made a mistake in not reigning his team in.

    Note: The losing team has never once complained - the controversy has entirely come from the media.
    Yeah, this is the coach's fault and he was rightly fired.

    Medopine on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Need more info, I don't know how that match would have been arranged, why it was arranged, or what the understanding was. It seems like poor form on it's face, though.

    edit: if they were purposefully running up the score against a disabled team? That's more than just the coach, the players shouldn't have been okay with that, either.

    kildy on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    I think it's the schools fault for scheduling an easy win and getting their hand caught in the cookie jar.

    FyreWulff on
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Catastrophic Humanity Failure.

    OptimusZed on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Note: The losing team has never once complained - the controversy has entirely come from the media.

    So wait, if the losing team doesn't care and the winning team doesn't care, why do we care?

    Quid on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Nova_C wrote: »
    The score was deliberately run up. The crowd and the assistant coach were pushing the team to score 100 points. After they were up 59-0 at halftime they should have backed off, but they didn't. It became about humiliation, showing just how much better they were.

    Who the hell gets any jollies out of beating special kids?

    Couscous on
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I've heard about this but I honestly want more information on how the game was played. It makes a difference if the players were playing aggresively the whole game or not, if all his players played in the game, what type of shots his players were taking during the game. You can just completely outclass the team you are playing against and end up with a lopsided score. If they were playing respectful and ended up with that score, fair enough, if they weren't then I don't feel bad about the guy being let go for it.

    edit: If you guys are right and they were running up the score, that is pretty poor sportsmanship and is a shitty thing to do. High school sports are not a place to do that kind of thing.

    kdrudy on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    To be honest though, nobody really cares about high school basketball games. It's like gym, but for people that actually want to be there.

    FyreWulff on
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    since the matchup did happen, the point where it becomes wrong wrong wrong wrong is the running up of the score, which they did. you play to win, but it's not like this is a professional or even a fair game. in a fair game, I'm all for scoring as many points as possible, stealing a base in the 9th when you're up by ten (a different sport I KNOW but I like the comparison) or anything like that because you have to respect your opponent's ability to come back.

    but when the other team hasn't scored, it's not an accident, it's not them biding their time, it's them not being competitive at this game. at that point you lose all reasoning for running up the score.

    and I mean, scoring 2 pts on every possession I wouldn't even consider offensive, you are there to play x amount of minutes, you can play them (assuming forfeit or ending early isn't an option) but I did hear the score got run up and all that.

    Variable on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    kdrudy wrote: »
    I've heard about this but I honestly want more information on how the game was played. It makes a difference if the players were playing aggresively the whole game or not, if all his players played in the game, what type of shots his players were taking during the game. You can just completely outclass the team you are playing against and end up with a lopsided score. If they were playing respectful and ended up with that score, fair enough, if they weren't then I don't feel bad about the guy being let go for it.

    Lots of three pointers, apparently.

    They were shooting for the 100 point mark deliberately.

    Medopine on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    kdrudy wrote: »
    I've heard about this but I honestly want more information on how the game was played. It makes a difference if the players were playing aggresively the whole game or not, if all his players played in the game, what type of shots his players were taking during the game. You can just completely outclass the team you are playing against and end up with a lopsided score. If they were playing respectful and ended up with that score, fair enough, if they weren't then I don't feel bad about the guy being let go for it.

    The winning team pressed until the end because, like I said, the crowd and assistant coach were driving them to score 100 points.

    Nova_C on
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    MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    To be honest though, nobody really cares about high school basketball games. It's like gym, but for people that actually want to be there.

    It matters to the players and their families. And I think it matters that we teach the concept of sportsmanship to young athletes.

    Medopine on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I disagree that the win was not Christlike.

    We are talking about a man who, instead of just politely and inconspicuously exorcizing a demon, has to show off by sending it into a bunch of pigs and then sending the pigs over a fucking cliff.

    Jesus Christ ran up the pig-off-the-cliff score in his battle against Legion. Why shouldn't these girls run up the score against some retarded basketball players?

    Qingu on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Variable wrote: »
    since the matchup did happen, the point where it becomes wrong wrong wrong wrong is the running up of the score, which they did. you play to win, but it's not like this is a professional...

    Usually when there are blowouts in NHL games, you can see the winning team back off and stop pressing for scoring chances, only scoring when they'd have to deliberately not score. And that's professional sports.

    Nova_C on
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    seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    I don't know why retarded kids are playing with normies

    This, pretty much. The match-up shouldn't have happened.

    From what I've seen other people mention elsewhere, the disabilities in question are learning disabilities. Like really bad dyslexia or whatever.

    As for the "why the hell are they playing each other," private schools in Texas can join a group called TAPPS (aka the private school version of UIL), which sets the rules/matchups for sports. Their classification system is based on total enrollment, and both these schools apparently have 59-107 students all in all, which means that they're both classified in 2A. And since they're near each other, they're in the same district. So this was a standard in-district game, not anything crazy.

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    The score was deliberately run up. The crowd and the assistant coach were pushing the team to score 100 points. After they were up 59-0 at halftime they should have backed off, but they didn't. It became about humiliation, showing just how much better they were.

    Who the hell gets any jollies out of beating special kids?

    I didn't realize that dyslexia affected your ability to throw and catch balls.

    HamHamJ on
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    PasserbyePasserbye I am much older than you. in Beach CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    It doesn't sound like the school was specifically for mentally retarded children, sounds like it was more for ADD, dyslexia, etc. Kids with ADD, etc., are perfectly capable of playing basketball.

    Passerbye on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    That's correct - the school was for learning disabilities, not physical (As far as I know).

    However, the total pool of female students was 20. Many of the players were playing in their first (And now only) game.

    Nova_C on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    The score was deliberately run up. The crowd and the assistant coach were pushing the team to score 100 points. After they were up 59-0 at halftime they should have backed off, but they didn't. It became about humiliation, showing just how much better they were.

    Who the hell gets any jollies out of beating special kids?

    I didn't realize that dyslexia affected your ability to throw and catch balls.

    You learn something new every day!
    Some studies have also reported gross motor difficulties in dyslexia, including motor skills disorder. This difficulty is indicated by clumsiness and poor coordination. The relationship between motor skills and reading difficulties is poorly understood but could be linked to the role of the cerebellum and inner ear in the development of reading and motor abilities.

    kildy on
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Wait, this was just kids with dyslexia and the like? Because if so, the whole contoversy is a load of bullocks, hell I've got dyslexia and kick arse at basketball. That can't be right?

    Leitner on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    Anyone know how long their quarters are?

    FyreWulff on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Based on what I've heard they scored 12 points in the fourth quarter. That's not exactly running it up. Not sure about the press.

    The coach got fired only after he spoke out against the apology. It wasn't the action but his opinion he got fired for. The real person at fault is the person responsible for scheduling this game.

    enlightenedbum on
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    FalloutFallout GIRL'S DAY WAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    you'd think christians would be on a level playing field with the developmentally disabled

    Fallout on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Usually when there are blowouts in NHL games, you can see the winning team back off and stop pressing for scoring chances, only scoring when they'd have to deliberately not score. And that's professional sports.

    Don't teams with huge leads in professional sports generally back off just to avoid the risk of pointless injuries, though? Doesn't seem like it'd be an issue here.
    It matters to the players and their families. And I think it matters that we teach the concept of sportsmanship to young athletes.

    Seriously, once you've gotten it to 50-0 you can safely back off. There was no reason to push it to 100-0 other than to show off, which is pretty much the definition of unsportsmanlike.

    I always wondered why some sports bother with mercy rules, I guess I just forget just how dickish people can be.


    EDIT: And all of that applies whether the kids are disabled or not.

    mcdermott on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Don't teams with huge leads in professional sports generally back off just to avoid the risk of pointless injuries, though? Doesn't seem like it'd be an issue here.

    I hadn't thought of that.

    Nova_C on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    This is pretty despicable. Religion aside, it's poor sportsmanship and a really bad example to set for your young competitors.

    I've actually gotten pretty angry over this story in the [chat] thread more than once so I'll just say that this is exactly how I feel.

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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Medopine wrote: »
    kdrudy wrote: »
    I've heard about this but I honestly want more information on how the game was played. It makes a difference if the players were playing aggresively the whole game or not, if all his players played in the game, what type of shots his players were taking during the game. You can just completely outclass the team you are playing against and end up with a lopsided score. If they were playing respectful and ended up with that score, fair enough, if they weren't then I don't feel bad about the guy being let go for it.

    Lots of three pointers, apparently.

    I'm rather confused what you would have the team do. Do the absolute minimum required to avoid the time based penalties then pass the ball to the other team? That's more disrespectful to the other team than simply treating them like real opposition.

    I don't understand why the game happened in the first place but if it was going to happen treating your opponent with kid gloves is a fuck ton more discriminatory than engaging them like real competition.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    The only school districts with mercy rules are usually extremely rural areas that would rather get people home than make them sit there and not watch a team score for another hour

    FyreWulff on
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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Nova_C wrote: »
    That's correct - the school was for learning disabilities, not physical (As far as I know).

    However, the total pool of female students was 20. Many of the players were playing in their first (And now only) game.

    If you quite something just because you lose one game, no matter how badly, you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

    HamHamJ on
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    That's correct - the school was for learning disabilities, not physical (As far as I know).

    However, the total pool of female students was 20. Many of the players were playing in their first (And now only) game.

    If you quite something just because you lose one game, no matter how badly, you probably shouldn't be playing in the first place.

    They didn't quit - they were pulled from the league.

    Nova_C on
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    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    See, this is my issue. There's running up the score. And then there's intentionally sucking, which is always very obvious and would make the other kids feel like shit.

    FyreWulff on
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    The only school districts with mercy rules are usually extremely rural areas that would rather get people home than make them sit there and not watch a team score for another hour
    I've never heard of a mercy rule in basketball or really any timed sporting event. Baseball has it because if a team sucks hard enough the game could take days to play to completion.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Based on what I've heard they scored 12 points in the fourth quarter. That's not exactly running it up. Not sure about the press.

    The coach got fired only after he spoke out against the apology. It wasn't the action but his opinion he got fired for. The real person at fault is the person responsible for scheduling this game.

    12 points in the 4th quarter means it was 88-0 after three and from the versions of the story i read, they didn't back off until they reached 100. It was running up the score pure and simple.

    --

    Ok, seriously I'm out.

    gundam470 on
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    saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    I disagree that the win was not Christlike.

    We are talking about a man who, instead of just politely and inconspicuously exorcizing a demon, has to show off by sending it into a bunch of pigs and then sending the pigs over a fucking cliff.

    Jesus Christ ran up the pig-off-the-cliff score in his battle against Legion. Why shouldn't these girls run up the score against some retarded basketball players?

    I literally laughed out loud at this post because this is so Qingu.

    BTW, the demons asked Jesus to have mercy on them and put them into the pigs. Also, Jesus asked his disciples, folks he healed, etc. to not spread it around that he was the "S-O-N" of "G-O-D" *wink wink, nudge nudge*

    Thanks for the laugh, though.

    saint2e on
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