Guys you do not need to tell me that historically speaking Kings had beards. I know that. To those at the time such as the Anglo-Saxons and the Franks, the idea of a King without a beard was pretty unheard of. Of course they had beards, they were seen as being preferably older and wiser men, who all had beards.
But when I was a kid, I read fairy stories, fantasy books, that kind of thing, and in those the classic dashing princes always were cleanly shaven (which actually fits because not having a beard was indicative of youth amongst western medieval cultures), and I prefer Thor as a heroic prince over a King, since that is how his character was envisioned and so on (Odin being the King that constantly tests and berates his son).
So aside from me vastly preferring the clean-shaven look, it does make sense in my head that Thor is clean-shaven.
While I'm certain that if the characters existed in the real world they would cross the line I think they are generally meant to be aware of that line but never cross it.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
While I'm certain that if the characters existed in the real world they would cross the line I think they are generally meant to be aware of that line but never cross it.
In the comics and films he crosses that line fairly often.
The cellphone device I agree if he used it just to keep track of things would have crossed the line. The choice to dismantle it, in my view, prevents him from truly crossing the line. Though that was pretty close.
Either way I think that variation is a product of our own personal morality clashing. We each have a limit in our heads about how far you an justify going before you've gone to far. I think its the writers intent that they never cross then line but where the line is is different.
Snyder's line is pretty conservative. He can lie, be a vigilante but hasn't really done anything outrageous.
On the extreme side you have Miller. I truly believe Miller thinks his batman is a good guy. However he kills people, starts a revolution trying to overthrow the government, kidnaps a kid ect.
The cellphone device I agree if he used it just to keep track of things would have crossed the line. The choice to dismantle it, in my view, prevents him from truly crossing the line. Though that was pretty close.
I'd agree that he doesn't take the temptation to delve into a higher form of fascism but he still is engaging in a fascist act.
Beyond any one signature moment or act, vigilantiasm at its core is a fascist enterprise.
yeah but at the same time if an unstoppable alien armada was headed towards earth and superman was just chillin on the couch watching breaking bad, people would be like 'SUPES CMON DUDE WERE ALL GONNA DIE'
and he'd be like 'but i'm no fascist, you guys can figure it out. plus this episode is really good, jesse gets the fuck kicked out of him'
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
yeah but at the same time if an unstoppable alien armada was headed towards earth and superman was just chillin on the couch watching breaking bad, people would be like 'SUPES CMON DUDE WERE ALL GONNA DIE'
and he'd be like 'but i'm no fascist, you guys can figure it out. plus this episode is really good, jesse gets the fuck kicked out of him'
Whether Batman is fascist or not is actually a nice example of the core difference between the DC and Marvel Universe, in that the the DC Universe is entirely fantastical whereas the Marvel Universe goes for pseudo-realism. If Batman was in the Marvel Universe, then he'd be ethically questionable, either fascist, or mad, or both, because those are the pseudo-realistic interpretations of what he does. In the DC Universe he isn't, because the writers say so. In the DC Universe, someone can be who Batman is and do what Batman does without being mad or a fascist.
Some people say that Batman is a Marvel superhero strapped in the DC Universe, but really that isn't true. By the traits that are unique to DC, Batman fits perfectly into the setting he is from.
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TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
I'm not sure how I feel about Catwoman being in heels. One the one hand, it's bad because it doesn't make much sense and almost all superheroines wear heels because misogyny. On the other hand, I figure if any superheroine should specifically look sexy, then it would be Catwoman, and superhero costumes rarely make sense anyway, nor should they have to.
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I dunno, my first thought looking at that was "Those look like they are for kicking people with or climbing things"
Ok, that's a lie, my first thought was Dat Ass, damn...
Whether Batman is fascist or not is actually a nice example of the core difference between the DC and Marvel Universe, in that the the DC Universe is entirely fantastical whereas the Marvel Universe goes for pseudo-realism.
People keep repeating this like it's a truism, but it's really only true if you're comparing the Silver Age versions of the two universes. I mean, the event that set up the course of the DC Universe's last decade was Identity Crisis for fucks sake. It's facile to downplay the ethically questionable nature of Batman's traditional tactics by saying "well, in the world he lives in, what he does isn't ethically questionable," because there are people arguing that virtually identical actions are perfectly justified in reality. Stripping the superhero genre of ethical responsibility like that is the absolute last thing the genre needs.
Whether Batman is fascist or not is actually a nice example of the core difference between the DC and Marvel Universe, in that the the DC Universe is entirely fantastical whereas the Marvel Universe goes for pseudo-realism.
People keep repeating this like it's a truism, but it's really only true if you're comparing the Silver Age versions of the two universes. I mean, the event that set up the course of the DC Universe's last decade was Identity Crisis for fucks sake. It's facile to downplay the ethically questionable nature of Batman's traditional tactics by saying "well, in the world he lives in, what he does isn't ethically questionable," because there are people arguing that virtually identical actions are perfectly justified in reality. Stripping the superhero genre of ethical responsibility like that is the absolute last thing the genre needs.
It's definitely a distinction that has been reduced over the years, yeah. I would still argue that DC is at a more base level a fantasy universe than Marvel, and thus a setting where someone can say "Batman is a hero, he's not crazy and he's not fascist and he wouldn't cross that line" and then accept that as the truth. Sure, Batman was been a paranoid jackass for years, I don't dispute that. Making Brother Eye was basically the act of a supervillain. But if you take the core idea of Batman, hell, the core idea of super-powered vigilantism in the real world, then it's incredibly troubling. In the Marvel Universe it's less so, but still a concern (and we've seen that before). In the DC Universe you can say "actually no, it isn't a concern" and that's okay. Like I said, the distinction has reduced over the years, but I still think that it is there.
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the longer the beard, the more regal the owner
Edit: Dich knows what's up.
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READ MY COMIC ^^
But when I was a kid, I read fairy stories, fantasy books, that kind of thing, and in those the classic dashing princes always were cleanly shaven (which actually fits because not having a beard was indicative of youth amongst western medieval cultures), and I prefer Thor as a heroic prince over a King, since that is how his character was envisioned and so on (Odin being the King that constantly tests and berates his son).
So aside from me vastly preferring the clean-shaven look, it does make sense in my head that Thor is clean-shaven.
Bruce having just met Superman lets himself be captured to save Superman because neither of them is a jerk, or a facist, or a bad guy or stupid.
most superheroes are
it's kinda par the ethics of the genre
In the comics and films he crosses that line fairly often.
The cellphone device I agree if he used it just to keep track of things would have crossed the line. The choice to dismantle it, in my view, prevents him from truly crossing the line. Though that was pretty close.
Snyder's line is pretty conservative. He can lie, be a vigilante but hasn't really done anything outrageous.
On the extreme side you have Miller. I truly believe Miller thinks his batman is a good guy. However he kills people, starts a revolution trying to overthrow the government, kidnaps a kid ect.
http://toobusythinkingboutcomics.blogspot.com/2010/07/fascist-superman-tyrant-aquaman-that.html
now is not the time for corners
that comes later
I'd agree that he doesn't take the temptation to delve into a higher form of fascism but he still is engaging in a fascist act.
Beyond any one signature moment or act, vigilantiasm at its core is a fascist enterprise.
and he'd be like 'but i'm no fascist, you guys can figure it out. plus this episode is really good, jesse gets the fuck kicked out of him'
it's pretty easy if you haven't read much superman
morrison's action comics superman is adamantly anti-fascist, though
What?
That was an oppotunity missed, he could have teamed up with Russian Batman.
Some people say that Batman is a Marvel superhero strapped in the DC Universe, but really that isn't true. By the traits that are unique to DC, Batman fits perfectly into the setting he is from.
Hehehe, I laughed.
how bout that? sure looks inspired by the Cooke design like they said it would be.
mm hmm.
and heels
I'm not sure how I feel about Catwoman being in heels. One the one hand, it's bad because it doesn't make much sense and almost all superheroines wear heels because misogyny. On the other hand, I figure if any superheroine should specifically look sexy, then it would be Catwoman, and superhero costumes rarely make sense anyway, nor should they have to.
Ok, that's a lie, my first thought was Dat Ass, damn...
Short hair would be better though, agreed
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that costume is impractical and looks like a fetish suit even more than the typical catwoman costume
People keep repeating this like it's a truism, but it's really only true if you're comparing the Silver Age versions of the two universes. I mean, the event that set up the course of the DC Universe's last decade was Identity Crisis for fucks sake. It's facile to downplay the ethically questionable nature of Batman's traditional tactics by saying "well, in the world he lives in, what he does isn't ethically questionable," because there are people arguing that virtually identical actions are perfectly justified in reality. Stripping the superhero genre of ethical responsibility like that is the absolute last thing the genre needs.
It's definitely a distinction that has been reduced over the years, yeah. I would still argue that DC is at a more base level a fantasy universe than Marvel, and thus a setting where someone can say "Batman is a hero, he's not crazy and he's not fascist and he wouldn't cross that line" and then accept that as the truth. Sure, Batman was been a paranoid jackass for years, I don't dispute that. Making Brother Eye was basically the act of a supervillain. But if you take the core idea of Batman, hell, the core idea of super-powered vigilantism in the real world, then it's incredibly troubling. In the Marvel Universe it's less so, but still a concern (and we've seen that before). In the DC Universe you can say "actually no, it isn't a concern" and that's okay. Like I said, the distinction has reduced over the years, but I still think that it is there.
Yeah, and it set the tone for every major event from DC since then.
it is pretty fun
How would you say it set the tone for Final Crisis?