This is from the article linked on Wikipedia, regarding archery and arrows.
Ranged weapons could be effective in Oblivion once you improved your skill level, but you had to pierce enemies with several arrows to take them down. After playing an Oblivion mod that turned the bow and arrow into a formidable weapon capable of one-hit kills, Bethesda decided to adopt that approach. It now takes a lot longer to get off a shot, but the arrows are much more powerful than before.
As in Oblivion, you can zoom to aim, and the longer you keep the bow drawn the more powerful your shot will be. Unlike Oblivion, the arrows now violently impact enemies with a satisfying thud. To keep players from coasting through the world plucking enemies from afar, Bethesda has significantly altered the arrow economy to make them a valuable but limited option. You won't be rolling into combat stacked with 50 Daedric arrows anymore. Though you don't have much defense when using the bow and arrow, if an enemy gets too close for comfort you can still execute a bash move, which knocks your foe off balance and gives you time to create distance between you and your target.
Okay if it's only the high level arrows (like Daedric) being rare, that's fine. The material's rare, and probably gonna be saved for something more substantial, like a longsword or something.
but ALL ARROWS being rare? That's bullshit. You can literally make arrows with A: A stick, and B: A shaped rock. Won't be that effective, but it can be shot out of a bow. Hell you don't even need the rock part if you're really worried about it!
I've made primitive arrows before.
And based on the screenshots, neither trees for sticks nor rocks are particularly rare.
I am so pumped for this game. I loved the last two and put way too many hours into them.
My only thing is I wonder how demanding the specs are going to be. I don't want to have to rebuild my entire pc just to rebirth my sweet Knight and my kick ass Viking warriors
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I'm not really worried about level scaling or arrow rarity or anything like that, because I know these are things that will be modded better lickity-split. As long as Bethesda provide me with a big, fun, engrossing world that's all I really care about.
edit: with lots of shit to steal and a big house to decorate with all of my stuff. These are also critical.
I'm not really worried about level scaling or arrow rarity or anything like that, because I know these are things that will be modded better lickity-split. As long as Bethesda provide me with a big, fun, engrossing world that's all I really care about.
I do have an issue with it, because this is basic economics.
Something relatively simple and relatively easily made from plentiful materials should not be rare and expensive
Christ, what happens when I make a character who melts down swords and armor to make huge amounts of arrows?
ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I hope the thievery system is closer to morrowind's than oblivions though. Stealing stuff in oblivion was dumb. Merchants on the other side of the country should not be aware that the pitcher you are selling to them was stolen.
I hope the thievery system is closer to morrowind's than oblivions though. Stealing stuff in oblivion was dumb. Merchants on the other side of the country should not be aware that the pitcher you are selling to them was stolen.
I liked the idea of selling to fences to get rid of stolen property, especially gems and valuable, distinct property, like some lord's ring or lady's diamond-crusted back-scratcher.
But a clay vase? There's about a hojillion of them in every other dungeon. Biggest sticking point for me was picking up items from a den of thieves in the middle of the wilderness before I killed them all and having ALL of the items red-flagged as stolen.
I'm not stealing from thieves to sell on the black market here, I'm returning the stolen property to the economy for a small finder's fee.
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Ayleid invisible property marker ink. The bane of Tamrielian thieves everywhere.
Morrowind had its problems too though. Like if you stole the diamond from Bob's shop, then every diamond in the game was considered stolen according to Bob. So not only could you not sell Bob's diamond back to Bob, but Bob won't buy any fucking diamonds ever.
The problem I had was that I stole the master's alchemical equipment (worth a couple thousand) every time I saw it. But then none of the alchemical merchants would buy the equipment back from me, and you can't sell that shit to Creeper, so I ended up being stuck with like 5 Master's Mortars & Pestles that were impossible to sell!
There are ways to avoid this situation but damn it sure is annoying.
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FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
In Daggerfall, you could hang around inside merchants stores until they closed and no one was there, go up to the shelves, steal 75 horses without anyone noticing, and then sell them back in the morning without the merchant noticing that he no longer had any horses on his shelves.
In Daggerfall, you could hang around inside merchants stores until they closed but the shopkeeper remained, go up to the shelves, steal 75 horses without anyone noticing, and then sell them back immediately to the still present shopkeeper.
In Daggerfall, you could hang around inside merchants stores until they closed but the shopkeeper remained, go up to the shelves, steal 75 horses without anyone noticing, and then sell them back immediately to the still present shopkeeper.
So overall, we're getting closer.
Indeed we are.
I claim poetic license. That, and something of a foggy memory. I only did it once to see if it actually worked.
Perhaps have like a radius where it's noticed as stolen?
Like in the city you stole from, people know it's stolen, and if you try to sell to the person you stole from they recognise it and get the guards. Then a few towns over you're free to sell whatever.
Maybe have it fade out, so one town away a weapon salesman may or may not recognise a stolen sword.
Heck maybe if you're a frequent customer and you do a quest for the merchant you earn his trust and they'll buy anything (unless it was theirs).
I'm cool with not having to riddle a dude with a dozen arrows before he goes down. It does seem pretty silly that arrows are some sort of rarity, though.
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Archery - I think that making bows do more damage is good. I mean, english longbows were designed to penetrate plate mail so it makes sense that they should be devastating weapons.
As far as arrows, I hope they just mean the more expensive materials. I'm going to be a bit irritated if I have to mod in an item that was a weapon before metal was discovered because it is unrealistically rare.
Stealing - If I had to think of an ideal system then items would have a flag of what city they are stolen from. Any common item under a certain worth could be sold in another city to any merchant or a fence. More expensive or unique stolen goods though would have to be sold to a fence.
Levelled Areas - I hope Bethesda is going to handle it better than previously. I want to see areas having a minimum level. Like, say, dungeon A has a minimum level of 10. All monsters and loot in that dungeon are lvl 10 if you go into it from lvl 1-10. If you discover the dungeon later in your career and you are lvl 14, then it automatically levels with you from that point on. I don't want dungeons fixed so that they might become a cakewalk if you overlevel them but if I underlevel them I DO want them to be possibly so hard I have to level up some more before I come back. If even the hard dungeons are just within 1-3 levels of you then that makes for some pretty boring challenges.
I'm a total goodie two-shoes in all these kinds of games but I will steal everything in sight all day long. It's so much fun to get away with theft in an Elder Scrolls game.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I think we might be treating the arrow rarity thing as too big a deal. Like they might not be super duper rare, where there are only like 10 arrows in the game. You probably just don't have hundreds of arrows all over the place. Maybe?
Maybe they're just limiting the number you can carry in a quiver? Like 400 arrows is hardly something a regular person could lug around then run and fight with while its on their back.
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but ALL ARROWS being rare? That's bullshit. You can literally make arrows with A: A stick, and B: A shaped rock. Won't be that effective, but it can be shot out of a bow. Hell you don't even need the rock part if you're really worried about it!
I've made primitive arrows before.
And based on the screenshots, neither trees for sticks nor rocks are particularly rare.
My only thing is I wonder how demanding the specs are going to be. I don't want to have to rebuild my entire pc just to rebirth my sweet Knight and my kick ass Viking warriors
edit: with lots of shit to steal and a big house to decorate with all of my stuff. These are also critical.
I do have an issue with it, because this is basic economics.
Something relatively simple and relatively easily made from plentiful materials should not be rare and expensive
Christ, what happens when I make a character who melts down swords and armor to make huge amounts of arrows?
I'm trying to think of an alternate system, and the only one I can think of is a Dwarf Fortress style organ damage one.
Which would be fucking awesome.
Dawn of War: Dark Crusade did that for awhile.
Oh yeah we haven't really even seen how rare they are even going to be anyway. I will be able to see once I get the game and play it.
But if it is a problem it seems easily fixed is what I'm saying.
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player.additem 0001EFD3 1000
I liked the idea of selling to fences to get rid of stolen property, especially gems and valuable, distinct property, like some lord's ring or lady's diamond-crusted back-scratcher.
But a clay vase? There's about a hojillion of them in every other dungeon. Biggest sticking point for me was picking up items from a den of thieves in the middle of the wilderness before I killed them all and having ALL of the items red-flagged as stolen.
I'm not stealing from thieves to sell on the black market here, I'm returning the stolen property to the economy for a small finder's fee.
The problem I had was that I stole the master's alchemical equipment (worth a couple thousand) every time I saw it. But then none of the alchemical merchants would buy the equipment back from me, and you can't sell that shit to Creeper, so I ended up being stuck with like 5 Master's Mortars & Pestles that were impossible to sell!
There are ways to avoid this situation but damn it sure is annoying.
So overall, we're getting closer.
Indeed we are.
I claim poetic license. That, and something of a foggy memory. I only did it once to see if it actually worked.
Like in the city you stole from, people know it's stolen, and if you try to sell to the person you stole from they recognise it and get the guards. Then a few towns over you're free to sell whatever.
Maybe have it fade out, so one town away a weapon salesman may or may not recognise a stolen sword.
Heck maybe if you're a frequent customer and you do a quest for the merchant you earn his trust and they'll buy anything (unless it was theirs).
It is... harder.
Your foggy memory made the "theft" (it was entirely legal, really) system in the game sound more reasonable than it actually was.
I couldn't just let that be, though.
Most fun way to play Oblivion/FO3
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As far as arrows, I hope they just mean the more expensive materials. I'm going to be a bit irritated if I have to mod in an item that was a weapon before metal was discovered because it is unrealistically rare.
Stealing - If I had to think of an ideal system then items would have a flag of what city they are stolen from. Any common item under a certain worth could be sold in another city to any merchant or a fence. More expensive or unique stolen goods though would have to be sold to a fence.
Levelled Areas - I hope Bethesda is going to handle it better than previously. I want to see areas having a minimum level. Like, say, dungeon A has a minimum level of 10. All monsters and loot in that dungeon are lvl 10 if you go into it from lvl 1-10. If you discover the dungeon later in your career and you are lvl 14, then it automatically levels with you from that point on. I don't want dungeons fixed so that they might become a cakewalk if you overlevel them but if I underlevel them I DO want them to be possibly so hard I have to level up some more before I come back. If even the hard dungeons are just within 1-3 levels of you then that makes for some pretty boring challenges.
It looks like English, but I can't understand a fucking word of what you just said, son.
Make a skull throne from them
See?
English, complete and comprehensible.
skooma for the skooma throne.