Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Now. Make sure you have armor pen reds, armor yellows (tier 1 is fine), and use warwick. Grab a longsword + hp pot and level WQQEQ for abilities. You'll be slower than level 30, but that's fine since everyone else will last hit less effectively than a level 30, and people tend to push out more, making ganks easier.
If you get a kill early, blow abilities to push the wave out to their tower asap, then b. You lose less CS from backing, come back into lane with a big advantage and maximize the disadvantage from farming.
Yes, this is a thing that can happen.
Is it enough to encourage aggression in this game? Obviously not.
Why would it? If you lose the engagement the other person does the same to you and you are way behind.
The game in terms of risk is symmetric since each team can go in at the same time (so even if there is an advantage in initiating you have to risk getting initiated on to initiate)
The only way you could really make aggression matter more would be if dying and killing didn't get you as much. Dying in lane would not set you back and so killing in lane can't give you an advantage.
Ironically this means that in order to enable aggression in the early game you would have to set it up so that aggression did not matter. You might as well farm (since engaging won't get you anything)
But if we have a game like that then why do we have an early game at all, why not just put champions at level 18 and team fight it out until one team wins?
This only applies if there is a 50/50 chance of dying. If rewards/penalties are equal, if you can win 75% of fights, aggression is the correct strategy as you'll come out ahead.
The problem is, playing defensively bottom is too powerful. It's harder to initiate a fight to the death than to avoid one, so the only way to win a kill lane is to outskill your opponents.
If you get a kill early, blow abilities to push the wave out to their tower asap, then b. You lose less CS from backing, come back into lane with a big advantage and maximize the disadvantage from farming.
Yes, this is a thing that can happen.
Is it enough to encourage aggression in this game? Obviously not.
Why would it? If you lose the engagement the other person does the same to you and you are way behind.
The game in terms of risk is symmetric since each team can go in at the same time (so even if there is an advantage in initiating you have to risk getting initiated on to initiate)
The only way you could really make aggression matter more would be if dying and killing didn't get you as much. Dying in lane would not set you back and so killing in lane can't give you an advantage.
Ironically this means that in order to enable aggression in the early game you would have to set it up so that aggression did not matter. You might as well farm (since engaging won't get you anything)
But if we have a game like that then why do we have an early game at all, why not just put champions at level 18 and team fight it out until one team wins?
The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.
You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.
The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.
Now that we're talking about it, when can Shyvana start jungling, and what are suggestions for it? I'm 15 myself, and have her, but don't use her much since whenever I pick her everyone seems to instantly assume I'll be jungling with her.
Now that we're talking about it, when can Shyvana start jungling, and what are suggestions for it? I'm 15 myself, and have her, but don't use her much since whenever I pick her everyone seems to instantly assume I'll be jungling with her.
Don't let anyone tell you Shyvana is a bad top lane. Or middle.
As for the jungle, you should be fine at level 20 so long as you go cloth+pots with the standard armor yellows.
The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.
You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.
The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.
The game is symmetric with respect to aggression. If it were not symmetric you would be suggesting that one side has an advantage in aggression in the entire game.
If there is a clear bonus to aggressing and one side has an advantage to aggressing then why are we playing this game? Whichever team as the advantage in early aggression wins the game. GG lets go home at char select.(edit: not to mention that if the other team has such an advantage you tend to play more passively)
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.
EDIT:
ROUND 1: GLG in 20 minute surrender
Goumindong on
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.
You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.
The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.
The game is symmetric with respect to aggression. If it were not symmetric you would be suggesting that one side has an advantage in aggression in the entire game.
If there is a clear bonus to aggressing and one side has an advantage to aggressing then why are we playing this game? Whichever team as the advantage in early aggression wins the game. GG lets go home at char select.
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
I literally have no idea what you're arguing for anymore.
Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?
I think there are different sentiments.
I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.
It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.
Future Blues on
Xbox Live: No Reply
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).
This only applies if there is a 50/50 chance of dying. If rewards/penalties are equal, if you can win 75% of fights, aggression is the correct strategy as you'll come out ahead.
The problem is, playing defensively bottom is too powerful. It's harder to initiate a fight to the death than to avoid one, so the only way to win a kill lane is to outskill your opponents.
If you have a 75% chance of winning a fight, why will the other guy put themselves in a position to fight?
A: They will not.
If they cannot avoid the fight then we aren't really playing a game anyone wants to play. Because whomever has the advantage simply initiates and wins, snowballs, gg 20 minute surrender.
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.
This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?
Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?
I think there are different sentiments.
I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.
It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.
and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
screw you dolphin, screw you whale.
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.
This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?
Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?
I think there are different sentiments.
I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.
It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.
and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
screw you dolphin, screw you whale.
"I want the game to be more aggressive with more kills. Damage is too low, and sustain is too high."
If you increase damage, people will play more passively because there is more risk involved in trades.
If you decrease sustain, people will play more passively because there is more risk involved in trades.
The problem here is risk.
People are only going to risk so much to gain an advantage, and trying to get kills in LoL is extremely risky business. If I get into a situation (a 1v1, 2v1, 3v3, etc) and lose, not only am I not going to be able to win that situation the next time it comes up, I'm going to lose other situation because they're 300-1500 gold up on us now, and they get to take whatever resource we were fighting over.
Now, if you reduce the risk for dying, you'll also end up reducing the benefits for killing (eg reducing respawn timers or gold for kills). A good example of this kind of game is a FPS, lots of kills and aggression with few penalties for death.
If you really want to increase aggression, you'd have to increase the penalties for not being aggressive. How to do that is up to someone else to think about.
Reduce CS gold, increase champion kill gold/assist gold. Make it so if someone dies to a tower/minions and there isn't a champion within X radius of the death then they only get assist gold, so an aggressor wins a tower dive even if he trades kills. You need to make killing people more powerful than farming kills. Right now if you kill someone, then lose a ton of health and have to back, you pretty much just broke even because of all the CS you lost in the time you spent killing someone, going back, and returning to lane.
Well, if you kill someone and then have to go back to base, that's only 8 seconds for recall plus two seconds to run to a bush. If their respawn timer is above 10 seconds, you'll be at lane faster with your 300g and experience bonus.
I feel like I'm the only person who likes the game where it is.
The point isn't necessarily the exact numbers, but more so that if you had just spent the time farming the lane and getting all the CS for that duration, you'd be at roughly the same spot except with zero risk.
This game is ALL about the "exact numbers"! If it isn't, then remove the death timer for the first 20 minutes. At 20 minutes, you can surrender, or deal with a death timer.
And with your "reduce CS gold, increase champ kill gold/assist gold" comment, don't forget the timing. I think it's like...10 seconds? Ten seconds after a champion attacks you, they no longer get assist credit.
I think tower diving is what it is, because that's what it should be. If you're going to get aggressive for that kill, then you need to understand the risk you're taking. If you don't want to risk losing the trade, then don't do it, or take down the tower ASAP so you have more room to chase.
You make it sound like there's no aggression being made early game. There's ton of opportunities for early aggression. Just because you see the pros play passive, or play with passive people a lot doesn't mean the game needs to be changed. The people need to change.
Oh, thanks for reminding me, Carn.
I'm tired of people bitching about Dignitas running that awesome support team.
Pointed out before, playing for money is like being caught in a street fight. You fight to win, not for show. It's not UFC. There are no 'rules'...well, not once you're in-game, that is.
Wouldn't you play your most OP champ to win money? And if you think that composition is such BS, then why not ban part of it? Are you more worried about losing to a support team, or Udyr and Ree Sin?
I think there are different sentiments.
I consider Dignitas awesome for coming up with a new strategy that wins. Woo dignitas.
I do not want to ever play or play against that strategy. Riot plz nerf that shit asap.
It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.
and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
screw you dolphin, screw you whale.
Saying MID SORAKA OR FEED tend to do that.
Says Mr. "Veigar bot or afk"!
tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Listen, I'm not the one who even complained about the passivity in the game to begin with. I'm just saying that there are ways to increase aggression in this game to make it more passive, and those ways aren't "omg nerf sustain" or "make healing better so I can be more aggressive safely." I think the game is fine as is.
Also, "just because you see the pros play passive" is literally the only thing that matters. I don't care how other people play or how the game plays at lower levels, the only thing worth balancing around is at the very tip top of the game, and if things are bad there, then it needs to be fixed.
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.
This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?
"In team deathmatch"
Are you intentionally missing the point? My point is you can change the way the game works, and then people will change how they play the game. This isn't even in contention, Dominion is the same game, in a different mode, which people play vastly differently.
Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.
This game is ALL about the "exact numbers"! If it isn't, then remove the death timer for the first 20 minutes. At 20 minutes, you can surrender, or deal with a death timer.
And with your "reduce CS gold, increase champ kill gold/assist gold" comment, don't forget the timing. I think it's like...10 seconds? Ten seconds after a champion attacks you, they no longer get assist credit.
I think tower diving is what it is, because that's what it should be. If you're going to get aggressive for that kill, then you need to understand the risk you're taking. If you don't want to risk losing the trade, then don't do it, or take down the tower ASAP so you have more room to chase.
You make it sound like there's no aggression being made early game. There's ton of opportunities for early aggression. Just because you see the pros play passive, or play with passive people a lot doesn't mean the game needs to be changed. The people need to change.
It's mostly a game engine issue. I used to tower dive every match as WW back when Flash popped projectiles, because you could negate ~400 damage of tower shots using it properly (one shot in air, one shot lost due to outranging tower) that you need to take now if you tower dive. I still want to tower dive, I just cannot do it successfully anymore. Similar examples exist for other abilities that could be slightly changed to encourage more aggression in play. I agree some players are part of it, but much of it is a reaction to the game rules as they stand.
programjunkie on
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.
This is exactly my point. Nerfing sustain into the ground isn't going to make people more aggressive. You have to hit people where it hurts...the gold purse. Change how gold is gained in the game and make it stronger in respect to being aggressive, and people will be more aggressive.
People are saying "oh, well you can get way ahead if you kill someone and blah blah." Obviously, not ahead enough.
Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).
Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.
You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Ah. I have an AD/armour/cdr page for Riven and Lee Sinn, and an AD/armour/AS page for Skarner. Every jungler I play regularly either scales with AD, or has a good AS buff.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
0
Options
TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).
Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.
You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.
Are AD marks better on WW? I thought you wanted AS to complement your passive, but I'm a baddie so that could be totally wrong. I'm sure the difference is mostly insignificant.
Level 20, get Tier 3 runes. You can run every non-marginal jungler at that point
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).
Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.
You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.
Are AD marks better on WW? I thought you wanted AS to complement your passive, but I'm a baddie so that could be totally wrong. I'm sure the difference is mostly insignificant.
WW's W scales better with AD than with more AS. The difference is ~10 seconds longer getting to level 4, so it isn't a huuuuge deal, but it is significant.
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
So the PA-special champ's splash art reminds me a little of Raziel from Soul Reaver crossed with DEVIL MAN from that awful manga/anime from the eighties.
I see this tournament as as competition for 1st and 4th. Quite frankly if someone other than CLG/Dig/SM win it's a huge upset since they are the 3 teams that are doing this full time. EG and v8 all have other commitments that have to take precedence over LoL (school in most cases) so they just aren't getting the practice that the other teams are. Tree and Takashi have to be getting close to graduating from college so I'll be interested in seeing if they decide to go full time (and if it will be with v8 since I'm pretty sure their "sponsorship" is basically nothing)
edit: I know aAa is at the tournament also but ehhhhh
Now. Make sure you have armor pen reds, armor yellows (tier 1 is fine), and use warwick. Grab a longsword + hp pot and level WQQEQ for abilities. You'll be slower than level 30, but that's fine since everyone else will last hit less effectively than a level 30, and people tend to push out more, making ganks easier.
Thanks all! I'm eager to add this role to my stable, because my normal blind pick teams usually lack junglers almost as often as they lack tanks or support (which, I'm increasingly reluctant to play straight support in solo queue).
Are you intentionally missing the point? My point is you can change the way the game works, and then people will change how they play the game. This isn't even in contention, Dominion is the same game, in a different mode, which people play vastly differently.
Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.
There are some "slight" differences between SR and Dominion that changes how things work and without changing the entirety of SR we won't be changing that dynamic.
The dynamic of a passive farming SR is created because you cant win the game until you're strong enough to push their team and their towers down. Such the advantage is never to be strong at the start, but to be strong later. It doesn't matter what team you take you can't win the game before creeps spawn. This dynamic is not present in Dominion. If the other team AFK's you can take the necessary win conditions as soon as you get onto the field.
Thus when we think of aggression in the early/mid game (where there is little aggression) it cannot be "fixed" in these manners. If you make CSing less valuable you're just going to make it easier to come back after losing a lane. It won't make people stop CS'ing because CSing is a corner solution(well, pretty much). Never Stop Farming... Win.
It wont make people more aggressive because the benefits of winning a fight will always be the same as the risks of losing a fight(specifically a gold advantage later). It wont make people take more risks, also because killing other champions is also a corner solution. No one gives up free kills voluntarily.
Posts
Depends on the champion. Malph and WW can jungle from pre-20 very well, while the Mundos and Rivens are worth pretty much fuck-all pre-30.
I'd wait to level 20 and pick up some AD reds and quints, armor yellows, with choice blues.
Flat AD reds, flat armor yellows, your choices blues (typically flat cdr or some type of MR), AD quints
That will work for pretty much every bruiser jungler in the game, even if not exactly what a given character wants. If you have extra IP, go Flat AS reds and arpen quints for Cho/Mundo.
Sorry bro, already shaved. Also, going out now. I'll hit you up later.
Now. Make sure you have armor pen reds, armor yellows (tier 1 is fine), and use warwick. Grab a longsword + hp pot and level WQQEQ for abilities. You'll be slower than level 30, but that's fine since everyone else will last hit less effectively than a level 30, and people tend to push out more, making ganks easier.
Edit to add:
This only applies if there is a 50/50 chance of dying. If rewards/penalties are equal, if you can win 75% of fights, aggression is the correct strategy as you'll come out ahead.
The problem is, playing defensively bottom is too powerful. It's harder to initiate a fight to the death than to avoid one, so the only way to win a kill lane is to outskill your opponents.
Probably now with armor yellows.
Nunu and WW can jungle from level 1 with no runes.
The game is not symmetric, since people are picking different strategies and compositions to go. Most of the lack of aggression stuff is based in a hatred of in lane passivity so let's just look at that part of the game.
You can simply make being aggressive more rewarding without making it symmetric. Make trading more beneficial for the person initiating the fights in lanes, if the player dies first but still manages to kill the other player, make it so dead champions gain less benefit from a kill in terms of gold/exp.
The essential problem is that being safe and farming is almost always the better decision than being aggressive and going for the throat. Top and bottom lanes seem to be examples of this.
i love shen so much
Don't let anyone tell you Shyvana is a bad top lane. Or middle.
As for the jungle, you should be fine at level 20 so long as you go cloth+pots with the standard armor yellows.
The game is symmetric with respect to aggression. If it were not symmetric you would be suggesting that one side has an advantage in aggression in the entire game.
If there is a clear bonus to aggressing and one side has an advantage to aggressing then why are we playing this game? Whichever team as the advantage in early aggression wins the game. GG lets go home at char select.(edit: not to mention that if the other team has such an advantage you tend to play more passively)
But of course that is not true. If you aggress you risk all those things that you gain from aggressing. And, in order to aggress, you must put yourself in a situation where you may be engaged upon.
You cannot make aggression "worth more" and expect it to happen. This has been seen in every competitive computer game ever made.
EDIT:
ROUND 1: GLG in 20 minute surrender
I literally have no idea what you're arguing for anymore.
It's already trickling down. My second game today was Soraka mid, Mundo jungle and Sona bot with Trist. This was a 5s queue in blind pick, but yeah, it's already happening.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
Flat AS reds tend to math out as superior on most junglers. Also, I'd recommend scaling blues for a jungle, since they tend to be better than flats by the time you get use of them (barring fiddle/karthus jungle).
If you have a 75% chance of winning a fight, why will the other guy put themselves in a position to fight?
A: They will not.
If they cannot avoid the fight then we aren't really playing a game anyone wants to play. Because whomever has the advantage simply initiates and wins, snowballs, gg 20 minute surrender.
This isn't even slightly accurate. In team deathmatch, people run into enemies all the time, despite the fact that winning said battle is equally beneficial to both parties, and yet, in LOL, people often avoid to fight to the death bottom lane. Why do you think that is?
and only 2 weeks ago people were dodging because I wanted to mid soraka.
screw you dolphin, screw you whale.
"In team deathmatch"
Saying MID SORAKA OR FEED tend to do that.
This game is ALL about the "exact numbers"! If it isn't, then remove the death timer for the first 20 minutes. At 20 minutes, you can surrender, or deal with a death timer.
And with your "reduce CS gold, increase champ kill gold/assist gold" comment, don't forget the timing. I think it's like...10 seconds? Ten seconds after a champion attacks you, they no longer get assist credit.
I think tower diving is what it is, because that's what it should be. If you're going to get aggressive for that kill, then you need to understand the risk you're taking. If you don't want to risk losing the trade, then don't do it, or take down the tower ASAP so you have more room to chase.
You make it sound like there's no aggression being made early game. There's ton of opportunities for early aggression. Just because you see the pros play passive, or play with passive people a lot doesn't mean the game needs to be changed. The people need to change.
Yelling at butts will never NOT be funny. Thanks, Psy!
Also, Abby is awesome. Keep up with TLH because it's the tits!
I love League of Legends, but seriously...screw you, Teemo.
Pretty much.
You can see me here playing stuff: http://www.twitchtv/mynameiskog
Says Mr. "Veigar bot or afk"!
Also, "just because you see the pros play passive" is literally the only thing that matters. I don't care how other people play or how the game plays at lower levels, the only thing worth balancing around is at the very tip top of the game, and if things are bad there, then it needs to be fixed.
Are you intentionally missing the point? My point is you can change the way the game works, and then people will change how they play the game. This isn't even in contention, Dominion is the same game, in a different mode, which people play vastly differently.
Similarly, you can "force" people to play more aggressively by changing the rule set for summoner's rift a bit to encourage aggressive play over passive CS farming.
It's mostly a game engine issue. I used to tower dive every match as WW back when Flash popped projectiles, because you could negate ~400 damage of tower shots using it properly (one shot in air, one shot lost due to outranging tower) that you need to take now if you tower dive. I still want to tower dive, I just cannot do it successfully anymore. Similar examples exist for other abilities that could be slightly changed to encourage more aggression in play. I agree some players are part of it, but much of it is a reaction to the game rules as they stand.
This is exactly my point. Nerfing sustain into the ground isn't going to make people more aggressive. You have to hit people where it hurts...the gold purse. Change how gold is gained in the game and make it stronger in respect to being aggressive, and people will be more aggressive.
People are saying "oh, well you can get way ahead if you kill someone and blah blah." Obviously, not ahead enough.
Depends on if your champ has AD scaling or an AS steroid. Warwick wants AD because he has that huge AS buff, and he has no problems clearing buffs, so stacking Armor Pen is a waste because it has no effect on small camps. Shyvana and Skarner want AD for Burnout scaling. Malph, Alitstar, GP, and others want AS.
You can never go wrong with AD, but AS isn't great on anything but junglers.
And I have the best avatar on this page of the thread. That just needed to be said.
fake edit: whoop nevermind
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Are AD marks better on WW? I thought you wanted AS to complement your passive, but I'm a baddie so that could be totally wrong. I'm sure the difference is mostly insignificant.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
WW's W scales better with AD than with more AS. The difference is ~10 seconds longer getting to level 4, so it isn't a huuuuge deal, but it is significant.
Check it out.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
edit: I know aAa is at the tournament also but ehhhhh
Thanks all! I'm eager to add this role to my stable, because my normal blind pick teams usually lack junglers almost as often as they lack tanks or support (which, I'm increasingly reluctant to play straight support in solo queue).
There are some "slight" differences between SR and Dominion that changes how things work and without changing the entirety of SR we won't be changing that dynamic.
The dynamic of a passive farming SR is created because you cant win the game until you're strong enough to push their team and their towers down. Such the advantage is never to be strong at the start, but to be strong later. It doesn't matter what team you take you can't win the game before creeps spawn. This dynamic is not present in Dominion. If the other team AFK's you can take the necessary win conditions as soon as you get onto the field.
Thus when we think of aggression in the early/mid game (where there is little aggression) it cannot be "fixed" in these manners. If you make CSing less valuable you're just going to make it easier to come back after losing a lane. It won't make people stop CS'ing because CSing is a corner solution(well, pretty much). Never Stop Farming... Win.
It wont make people more aggressive because the benefits of winning a fight will always be the same as the risks of losing a fight(specifically a gold advantage later). It wont make people take more risks, also because killing other champions is also a corner solution. No one gives up free kills voluntarily.
it's been really rough listening to rivington
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam