But the classes are not traditional and you can theoretically roll with any set of squad mates and make it through a mission. Some combinations may be harder, but they are feasible.
This is not true in traditional RPGs, like Planescape: Torment. Just about everyone who wasn't a healer themselves had to roll with Fall From Grace or you'd wipe in no time flat.
Same with holy trinity MMOs, where certain classes or roles HAVE to be present for the party to succeed.
So wait, your definition is that for it to be an RPG you have to have certain characters playing those certain roles?
That is an incredibly foreign concept to me.
For me, the base things any RPG, or a game with "RPG elements" needs are just gaining experience points as you progress and choosing the types of things your character does/are good at.
And basically the freedom to do what you want made it "more" of an RPG to me. If you are forced into going down one path and just doing one thing, that is less of an RPG, if that makes any sense.
So there are a couple different levels there. Just the basic RPG elements, or some extra stuff that makes a game "more of an RPG"
I would totally call Mass Effect a shooter with RPG elements, since you get to choose how your character progresses, and the fact that you don't have limits on it does not really play into it at all.
He would've gotten away with it if it weren't for those melding kids.
I'm always amazed by the Harry the Hypnotist episode of Scooby Doo. Didn't they just pull the culprit out of their asses there? Like it was some guy who'd never appeared before the reveal?
What the hell was that about?
yeah that was a Bad Mystery
but that clown was awesome
WATCH THE SHINY COIN OF GOLD, AND YOU WILL DO AS YOU ARE TOLD
been hanging out in the hotel lobby waiting for my mom to get back, a song just came on that was driving me nuts because I couldn't figure out where it was from
been hanging out in the hotel lobby waiting for my mom to get back, a song just came on that was driving me nuts because I couldn't figure out where it was from
been hanging out in the hotel lobby waiting for my mom to get back, a song just came on that was driving me nuts because I couldn't figure out where it was from
it's one of the songs from pixeljunk eden
See this is why they invented Shazam
To allow young Billy Batson to become EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL?
man, you don't invent ancient wizards who grant power, you discover them. like storms.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
I overheard an amazing conversation at work today.
A counter staff member was talking to a dad and his kid, the latter having brought up GTA IV (which is rated MA15+ here).
When the staff member read out the part of the rating which said 'under 15s must be accompanied by a parent or guardian' the kid responded with 'you can just guard me the whole time'.
Then the dad refused to buy the game for him and the kid's response was 'but I promise I won't kill anyone!'
Now I'm thinking about GTA IV if Niko was a pacifist.
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
But the classes are not traditional and you can theoretically roll with any set of squad mates and make it through a mission. Some combinations may be harder, but they are feasible.
This is not true in traditional RPGs, like Planescape: Torment. Just about everyone who wasn't a healer themselves had to roll with Fall From Grace or you'd wipe in no time flat.
Same with holy trinity MMOs, where certain classes or roles HAVE to be present for the party to succeed.
So wait, your definition is that for it to be an RPG you have to have certain characters playing those certain roles?
That is an incredibly foreign concept to me.
For me, the base things any RPG, or a game with "RPG elements" needs are just gaining experience points as you progress and choosing the types of things your character does/are good at.
And basically the freedom to do what you want made it "more" of an RPG to me. If you are forced into going down one path and just doing one thing, that is less of an RPG, if that makes any sense.
So there are a couple different levels there. Just the basic RPG elements, or some extra stuff that makes a game "more of an RPG"
I would totally call Mass Effect a shooter with RPG elements, since you get to choose how your character progresses, and the fact that you don't have limits on it does not really play into it at all.
Again, I re-emphasize that my use of the term "RPG" is not "a game where you play a role"... it is the industry definition of an RPG.
And you're right in that Mass Effect has RPG elements, and it's generally called an Action RPG, but I really don't think it fits the more traditional party-based RPGs of yore - D&D, Baldur's Gate, etc etc - mainly because it does not emphasize the ROLE of each of your characters in a game-defined mechanic, but rather it emphasizes WHO THEY ARE and WHAT THEY MEAN TO YOU.
And I don't even know why Mass Effect has suddenly become the main discussion around the article, because my (BRIEF AND NOT AT ALL THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE) statement of Mass Effect NOT being a traditional RPG is intended as a Good. Thing. because it doesn't emphasize what the characters can do nor what their abilities/specialties are (unless you count the endgame in ME2). It instead emphasizes WHO they are, which is a refreshing step away from how traditional RPGs and their party-based systems work.
And it's also actively demonstrating that characters who are PEOPLE are far more memorable and fun to hang with that people who are ROLES that are filled. And that dichotomy reflects how we think of people in our lives in GENERAL.
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited May 2012
@Antimatter I am genuinely curious to see how you interpreted the article
because I was saying that Mass Effect succeeds in making each character more important than their role
and I do not think we are disagreeing on that
I mean we can argue whether or not ME is an RPG by genre definition or personal definition, but that is not even close to the point of the article, because, what I am saying is that
...the series features a party-based system that has actively moved away from traditional roles. This has demonstrated that it is possible to choose from a wide and varied cast of fleshy, complex, well-written characters that serve to strengthen the story.
The role playing article was good but I feel like the definition being used stop being relevant years ago
I'm sorta confused about why everyone's fixating on this part of the article because it really wasn't the main thrust of it at all
Yeah I'm starting to think that by not clarifying what definition I was using, the point of the article basically got lost because everyone started getting all pedantic. In that, I own that that's my fault, because it's really not generating the discussion I was hoping for.
Though we could argue that the miscommunication of my point and its misinterpretation by readers is totally topical to the article, heh.
Mass Effect is a little bit more of an RPG than Fallout 3 is.
That is, there is some vague stat-like systems behind the combat, your character and story development hinges on your individual actions and interactions with NPCs, and you can pick and choose how to go about doing stuff, within reason.
Neither is a traditional RPG, but they most certainly have more of a focus on their RPG elements than their FPS elements (though Mass Effect isn't truely an FPS either). Or at least they try to.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Posts
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Steam
"Aw dad, kids my age really aren't interested in this kind of thing! They like to drive around and set traps and solve mysteries!"
"No they don't."
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Cause that is crazy.
So wait, your definition is that for it to be an RPG you have to have certain characters playing those certain roles?
That is an incredibly foreign concept to me.
For me, the base things any RPG, or a game with "RPG elements" needs are just gaining experience points as you progress and choosing the types of things your character does/are good at.
And basically the freedom to do what you want made it "more" of an RPG to me. If you are forced into going down one path and just doing one thing, that is less of an RPG, if that makes any sense.
So there are a couple different levels there. Just the basic RPG elements, or some extra stuff that makes a game "more of an RPG"
I would totally call Mass Effect a shooter with RPG elements, since you get to choose how your character progresses, and the fact that you don't have limits on it does not really play into it at all.
yeah that was a Bad Mystery
but that clown was awesome
WATCH THE SHINY COIN OF GOLD, AND YOU WILL DO AS YOU ARE TOLD
In that sense of the word, class-based team shooters are a good example of gameplay roles as they all serve a specific purpose
bake 'em away, toys.
i'm pretty sure there's a gag with fred reding Traps Monthly and hiding it like it's porn
it really is a great show that pokes fun at itself and at the other hanna-barbera mystery cartoons
there's an episode about the casts of all of those shows getting together that's animated in the old style
it owns really hard
holy shit seriously
i gotta watch more of this thing
http://www.audioentropy.com/
been hanging out in the hotel lobby waiting for my mom to get back, a song just came on that was driving me nuts because I couldn't figure out where it was from
it's one of the songs from pixeljunk eden
http://www.audioentropy.com/
See this is why they invented Shazam
hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
yeah, it owns a lot. i watched it with my brother growing up.
Hmm, interesting.
To be honest Scooby Doo never held a special place in my childhood, but I am down for a new take on it.
Solving crimes with Batman and Don Knotts and Sonny & Cher
Also three stooges
I used to watch those on cartoon network when I was home sick from school
Good times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM5umez3jCo
it was brought up in the thread a while ago
this is the new one that just started airing a year or two ago
it's funny as shit though because the whole thing is like "you remember hanna barbera mystery shit? man that was stupid"
what'd you say chief?
I'm sorta confused about why everyone's fixating on this part of the article because it really wasn't the main thrust of it at all
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Just do what the kid said.
FPS can be Doomlikes, Sports games can be Ponglikes, etc
To allow young Billy Batson to become EARTH'S MIGHTIEST MORTAL?
Why I fear the ocean.
A counter staff member was talking to a dad and his kid, the latter having brought up GTA IV (which is rated MA15+ here).
When the staff member read out the part of the rating which said 'under 15s must be accompanied by a parent or guardian' the kid responded with 'you can just guard me the whole time'.
Then the dad refused to buy the game for him and the kid's response was 'but I promise I won't kill anyone!'
Now I'm thinking about GTA IV if Niko was a pacifist.
and now I'm thinking about the Deux Ex pacifist runs
and how awesome a game with DX's aesthetics set in a GTA open world would be
Again, I re-emphasize that my use of the term "RPG" is not "a game where you play a role"... it is the industry definition of an RPG.
And you're right in that Mass Effect has RPG elements, and it's generally called an Action RPG, but I really don't think it fits the more traditional party-based RPGs of yore - D&D, Baldur's Gate, etc etc - mainly because it does not emphasize the ROLE of each of your characters in a game-defined mechanic, but rather it emphasizes WHO THEY ARE and WHAT THEY MEAN TO YOU.
And I don't even know why Mass Effect has suddenly become the main discussion around the article, because my (BRIEF AND NOT AT ALL THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE) statement of Mass Effect NOT being a traditional RPG is intended as a Good. Thing. because it doesn't emphasize what the characters can do nor what their abilities/specialties are (unless you count the endgame in ME2). It instead emphasizes WHO they are, which is a refreshing step away from how traditional RPGs and their party-based systems work.
And it's also actively demonstrating that characters who are PEOPLE are far more memorable and fun to hang with that people who are ROLES that are filled. And that dichotomy reflects how we think of people in our lives in GENERAL.
because I was saying that Mass Effect succeeds in making each character more important than their role
and I do not think we are disagreeing on that
I mean we can argue whether or not ME is an RPG by genre definition or personal definition, but that is not even close to the point of the article, because, what I am saying is that
which is, again, a GOOD THING
Yeah I'm starting to think that by not clarifying what definition I was using, the point of the article basically got lost because everyone started getting all pedantic. In that, I own that that's my fault, because it's really not generating the discussion I was hoping for.
Though we could argue that the miscommunication of my point and its misinterpretation by readers is totally topical to the article, heh.
That is, there is some vague stat-like systems behind the combat, your character and story development hinges on your individual actions and interactions with NPCs, and you can pick and choose how to go about doing stuff, within reason.
Neither is a traditional RPG, but they most certainly have more of a focus on their RPG elements than their FPS elements (though Mass Effect isn't truely an FPS either). Or at least they try to.
Because it was the part I didn't like, I guess