This whole release them a month apart thing is real dumb since the book says HEY IF YOU WANNA KNOW MORE BUY THE MONSTER MANUAL/DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE
I would if you would let me dummies
there's some free resources with magic items and monsters out there already. not a whole bunch of either, but probably enough to hold a biweekly game over until all the books are out.
Every positive thing I hear about 5e makes me sad.
....why?
Like
They're good things
They listened to the horrible response the early version got and made a better product
And still we ended up with a product I cannot but regard as mediocre.
Im sure it seems middling if you are playing one of the other advanced, specialized games like the WoD stuff or Dark Heresy or something but it seems like a perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e that is very friendly to people who only occasionally play tabletop which is exactly what I need
Every positive thing I hear about 5e makes me sad.
....why?
Like
They're good things
They listened to the horrible response the early version got and made a better product
And still we ended up with a product I cannot but regard as mediocre.
Im sure it seems middling if you are playing one of the other advanced, specialized games like the WoD stuff or Dark Heresy or something but it seems like a perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e that is very friendly to people who only occasionally play tabletop which is exactly what I need
A "perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e"?
What part of 4e is present in 5e, exactly? It's like one part per hundred.
I'm just really bitter about how the very few parts of 4e they kept for 5e, they either pretended were brand-new for 5e or came up with some half-assed comparison to something from an earlier edition. They deliberately avoided talking about 4e in any of their write-ups about 5e.
DnD 5th edition is absolutely fine at being DnD 5th edition
And if you don't like it then just play existing editions, it's not like there still isn't vast amount of stuff for you to use if you want to stick with 4th
I don't really care for DnD but if you take the view that classic DnDisms (class, level, HP etc) are totally fine then DnD 5th ed is an entirely acceptable and well put together game line.
I mean like Blank says he is looking for DnD that works and does what it says on the tin and is accessible to him and his buddies. It absolutely is that, so that's entirely cool.
Every positive thing I hear about 5e makes me sad.
....why?
Like
They're good things
They listened to the horrible response the early version got and made a better product
But it still feels like moving deck chairs on the Titanic. There's still fundamental problems with the basic approaches they took to the game design that have completely alienated me and made me have zero interest in playing it. So all the good things they've done, and there are legit good things they have done, just make me wish they'd have like... not done all the bad things they'd done that make me not want to play it. I wish they'd have happened to a game that I'd actually want to play.
There's no way for them to salvage it for me at this point because there's like, fundamental design decisions they made that are just dealbreakers. It makes me sad. I'm happy for the people who like, want to play it, I guess, but just kinda leaves me bummed because I have no interest in playing it and ultimately they're not going to see what I think they did wrong as bad ideas.
+11
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
To clarify, since Blake T is making a play at it and because some of y'all might be about to
I am not some edition warrior mud-stick who is hating on something because it's new.
I actually dislike 5e because it's old. It's so regressive it is really unappealing to me. I didn't like 3.5 and I didn't like Pathfinder, and I enjoyed how 4e was a huge breath of fresh air that really shook up D&D and changed the game and made it really different and more fun to play and modern and accessible and streamlined and balanced and coherent.
5e is, for me, a giant step backwards to nostalgia I do not feel. Yes, I grew up playing 1st edition and 2nd edition. I don't really care. If I wanted to play those games I could play them. I had hoped that with 5e they would've have learned from 4e and took the game in a bold, new direction and built upon that foundation. Instead, they played it as safe as possible and brought back some of the worst mechanics of the game and emphasized some of the least appealing aspects of D&D for me that 4e had finally managed to trim away.
If you like Pathfinder or 3.5 or 5e, that's fine. If the things 5e is doing makes you excited, cool. They don't make me excited, they make me frown at a game that could've been great but wasn't, for me. Blank asked me why, and so I answered, and I answered in a totally subjective "These are things I like and do not like" way without making objective statements about it.
So, yeah, just to be clear.
+2
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Alright, sorry, it's just "You prefer Pathfinder, don't you" when someone says they don't like a game (especially a new edition of D&D) is actually often used as a way of saying they're kind of a shitty neckbeard who is just hating something because it's new, because that's a stereotype about Pathfinder's fanbase.
So I scowled in response.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
No. I am literally the bumbling guy who has only played 4e and still struggles to find in the sheet where his initiative stat is whenever we roll into combat.
No. I am literally the bumbling guy who has only played 4e and still struggles to find in the sheet where his initiative stat is whenever we roll into combat.
Yeah, sorry, I see that now.
It's just that there are literally people who use liking Pathfinder itself as a slur, especially in discussions of like, D&D editions. When 4e came out, a lot of 3.5 fans hated it (and, seeing as it was a massive departure from previous editions of D&D, I understand that even if I don't agree with them) and for them Pathfinder was pretty appealing since it was basically a much more moderate revision of 3.5 D&D.
As a result there is a contingent of Pathfinder's fanbase (who do not represent all Pathfinder fans, I don't even know if I'd call them the majority) who are sneering, shit-headed assholes about 4e and about newer, more modern notions about RPGs in general. They've caused a stereotype to exist about the Pathfinder fanbase, and so when there's a conversation about RPGs in general and new D&D editions in particular and someone asks (or more often, accuses) someone else of being a Pathfinder fan, it can be akin to calling them a regressive whiner who just hates new things for being new regardless of their individual merits or whatever.
Again, this is based on like, stereotypes of a group of people, so it's unfair and there are Pathfinder fans (including people who post in this thread) that this doesn't apply to at all, but in the context of this conversation that's what I thought you were doing and it made me narrow my eyes hard and respond all snippy.
ran a one shot last night, one of my players has always GMd, never played other than a short Deathwatch game
he was like "fuck this combat is so brutally fun" and it really is. Kasrkin Stormtrooper and Kasrkin Sanctioned Psyker fighting a xenos species of my own devising (for armed two legged wall crawling lizards with advanced las tech) in what amounts to an 18th century farmhouse. They wrecked the place, both of them were in CQB and it's stuff like "I stab it with a combat knife and then body slam the bastard into the fireplace," desperate shootouts in corridors, grenades in staircases and so on. The crit tables are really cool in that they make your successful strikes into much more than just doing some damage with maybe a negative modifier, there's bits of bodies everywhere, screaming, blood, laserburn and lost weapons. So good!
Every positive thing I hear about 5e makes me sad.
....why?
Like
They're good things
They listened to the horrible response the early version got and made a better product
And still we ended up with a product I cannot but regard as mediocre.
Im sure it seems middling if you are playing one of the other advanced, specialized games like the WoD stuff or Dark Heresy or something but it seems like a perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e that is very friendly to people who only occasionally play tabletop which is exactly what I need
A "perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e"?
What part of 4e is present in 5e, exactly? It's like one part per hundred.
In keeping with the theme of "5e doesn't really do anything that wasn't done better elsewhere"
The funny thing is that is also true of it attempting to be a 3e/4e hybrid.
It...kinda sucked. We started around 7, didn't have any combat until 9:30, and it was over by 10. My paladin blew all three spell slots basically just tanking a wererat, and didn't even get a killing blow.
It's fucking boring. In order to use my channel divinity I had to do absolutely nothing else that round, which sucked. The action economy has swung so far in the opposite direction of 4e that it's like...there's not even any point in doing something that will help you do other things, because you won't get to do any of those other things until next round and the whole encounter could be over by then if there's a caster on either side....
And now the DM is talking about when we start up a regular campaign that he's always felt like it should be lethal, PCs should die. And when they die, the player should have to start over at level 1 again.
Sooooo, not really sure I'm gonna be playing 5th edition much longer, to be honest.
Yeah it doesn't matter what rules I am playing with if my DM had that notion (and it wasn't an integral part of the storyline) I'd probably not be interested in playing anyway.
Anzekay on
+7
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
God 5th edition looks so goddamn pretty
As much as I liked 4e the books had no life to them, just like a plain black font on a flat white background with a beige-y gradient stripe to separate lines where it got important and I didn't find the art especially compelling
All the 5e preview images I've seen look beautiful, they look like a joy to read through visually but mechanically it doesn't appeal at all, especially because it feels like it goes back to casters being kings of everything
Rear Admiral Choco on
+1
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited August 2014
I'd instinctually say starting over every time seems a bit silly, but what could the advantages be?
Considering how well the layout has been received it'd be pretty cool if wizard did a re-release of 4e with new layouts and art.
It...kinda sucked. We started around 7, didn't have any combat until 9:30, and it was over by 10. My paladin blew all three spell slots basically just tanking a wererat, and didn't even get a killing blow.
It's fucking boring. In order to use my channel divinity I had to do absolutely nothing else that round, which sucked. The action economy has swung so far in the opposite direction of 4e that it's like...there's not even any point in doing something that will help you do other things, because you won't get to do any of those other things until next round and the whole encounter could be over by then if there's a caster on either side....
And now the DM is talking about when we start up a regular campaign that he's always felt like it should be lethal, PCs should die. And when they die, the player should have to start over at level 1 again.
Sooooo, not really sure I'm gonna be playing 5th edition much longer, to be honest.
Nopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenope.
+19
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
edited August 2014
I can understand like, some minor setback, but even then when I run Savage Worlds I very much doubt I'll be going with the -1 Advance on new characters rule, penalties on death are really just lame
Also @Solar yessssss Only War is excellent times, Matt lost a couple characters by the end of the campaign I ran with a bunch of buddies due to his balls being too goddamn big for his britches
First dude was a sergeant, got cleft from throat to groin by an ork slugga boy, second dude was an operator/commander who got ripped apart by a warboss when he deliberately pulled the hatch on the ork's tank to let his subordinates get to safety
They also had a psyker who had the misfortune of poking his head out of the hatch of a Chimera to fire a molten beam right about the time a traitor Hellhound doused the thing in burning promethium, so that was fun
The second longest surviving member of their squad, a heavy gunner who had chewed through a bunch of tanks with a multi-melta, got blown up by a looted Leman Russ when he fired on it and didn't quite manage to cook it through
I can understand like, some minor setback, but even then when I run Savage Worlds I very much doubt I'll be going with the -1 Advance on new characters rule, penalties on death are really just lame
Also @Solar yessssss Only War is excellent times, Matt lost a couple characters by the end of the campaign I ran with a bunch of buddies due to his balls being too goddamn big for his britches
First dude was a sergeant, got cleft from throat to groin by an ork slugga boy, second dude was an operator/commander who got ripped apart by a warboss when he deliberately pulled the hatch on his tank to let his subordinates get to safety
They also had a psyker who had the misfortune of poking his head out of the hatch of a Chimera to fire a molten beam right about the time a traitor Hellhound doused the thing in burning promethium, so that was fun
The second longest surviving member of their squad, a heavy gunner who had chewed through a bunch of tanks with a multi-melta, got blown up by a looted Leman Russ when he fired on it and didn't quite manage to cook it through
So, who lasted longest?
And, as they ARE guardsmen, over or under 12 hours?
His argument is that, with bounded accuracy, the downsides of starting at level 1 are minimized, while the upshot is that you still get an even share of the XP, so you'll catch up much faster.
The problem is that if the game is already lethal enough for my level 9 PC to be killed by a bone devil, what chance does my level 1 PC have?
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
It's the real balancing factor for casters, there
You gotta successfully avoid being killed by a house cat for long enough to be remotely powerful, so sometimes it's just better to roll fighter and actually manage to catch up to the rest of the party
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
That might've made sense if monster HP values weren't ridiculously inflated.
I like that we never really track experience in our current dnd game. Feels a lot better to level up naturally in the story rather than keeping track of the minutiae that is xp calculation after each encounter.
Posts
I would if you would let me dummies
And still we ended up with a product I cannot but regard as mediocre.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
there's some free resources with magic items and monsters out there already. not a whole bunch of either, but probably enough to hold a biweekly game over until all the books are out.
Nothing in 5e feels like it's come from a time since before 3.X stopped being.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
A "perfect combo of 4e and 3.5e"?
What part of 4e is present in 5e, exactly? It's like one part per hundred.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
It is a lot more pre four than 4, but i don't think that's really a bad thing.
And if you don't like it then just play existing editions, it's not like there still isn't vast amount of stuff for you to use if you want to stick with 4th
I don't really care for DnD but if you take the view that classic DnDisms (class, level, HP etc) are totally fine then DnD 5th ed is an entirely acceptable and well put together game line.
I mean like Blank says he is looking for DnD that works and does what it says on the tin and is accessible to him and his buddies. It absolutely is that, so that's entirely cool.
But it still feels like moving deck chairs on the Titanic. There's still fundamental problems with the basic approaches they took to the game design that have completely alienated me and made me have zero interest in playing it. So all the good things they've done, and there are legit good things they have done, just make me wish they'd have like... not done all the bad things they'd done that make me not want to play it. I wish they'd have happened to a game that I'd actually want to play.
There's no way for them to salvage it for me at this point because there's like, fundamental design decisions they made that are just dealbreakers. It makes me sad. I'm happy for the people who like, want to play it, I guess, but just kinda leaves me bummed because I have no interest in playing it and ultimately they're not going to see what I think they did wrong as bad ideas.
Satans..... hints.....
Nope, I actually really dislike Pathfinder a whole lot, but nice try, Zarflax.
I thought I remembered you talking about it.
Do you have a PnP of choice?
Satans..... hints.....
Satans..... hints.....
I am not some edition warrior mud-stick who is hating on something because it's new.
I actually dislike 5e because it's old. It's so regressive it is really unappealing to me. I didn't like 3.5 and I didn't like Pathfinder, and I enjoyed how 4e was a huge breath of fresh air that really shook up D&D and changed the game and made it really different and more fun to play and modern and accessible and streamlined and balanced and coherent.
5e is, for me, a giant step backwards to nostalgia I do not feel. Yes, I grew up playing 1st edition and 2nd edition. I don't really care. If I wanted to play those games I could play them. I had hoped that with 5e they would've have learned from 4e and took the game in a bold, new direction and built upon that foundation. Instead, they played it as safe as possible and brought back some of the worst mechanics of the game and emphasized some of the least appealing aspects of D&D for me that 4e had finally managed to trim away.
If you like Pathfinder or 3.5 or 5e, that's fine. If the things 5e is doing makes you excited, cool. They don't make me excited, they make me frown at a game that could've been great but wasn't, for me. Blank asked me why, and so I answered, and I answered in a totally subjective "These are things I like and do not like" way without making objective statements about it.
So, yeah, just to be clear.
Satans..... hints.....
Alright, sorry, it's just "You prefer Pathfinder, don't you" when someone says they don't like a game (especially a new edition of D&D) is actually often used as a way of saying they're kind of a shitty neckbeard who is just hating something because it's new, because that's a stereotype about Pathfinder's fanbase.
So I scowled in response.
Satans..... hints.....
4 helped alleviate the 5-minute work day for spellcasters, and they kept that for 5. I really like that.
Also, the Warlock seems like a blast. I can't wait to roll one.
Yeah, sorry, I see that now.
It's just that there are literally people who use liking Pathfinder itself as a slur, especially in discussions of like, D&D editions. When 4e came out, a lot of 3.5 fans hated it (and, seeing as it was a massive departure from previous editions of D&D, I understand that even if I don't agree with them) and for them Pathfinder was pretty appealing since it was basically a much more moderate revision of 3.5 D&D.
As a result there is a contingent of Pathfinder's fanbase (who do not represent all Pathfinder fans, I don't even know if I'd call them the majority) who are sneering, shit-headed assholes about 4e and about newer, more modern notions about RPGs in general. They've caused a stereotype to exist about the Pathfinder fanbase, and so when there's a conversation about RPGs in general and new D&D editions in particular and someone asks (or more often, accuses) someone else of being a Pathfinder fan, it can be akin to calling them a regressive whiner who just hates new things for being new regardless of their individual merits or whatever.
Again, this is based on like, stereotypes of a group of people, so it's unfair and there are Pathfinder fans (including people who post in this thread) that this doesn't apply to at all, but in the context of this conversation that's what I thought you were doing and it made me narrow my eyes hard and respond all snippy.
ran a one shot last night, one of my players has always GMd, never played other than a short Deathwatch game
he was like "fuck this combat is so brutally fun" and it really is. Kasrkin Stormtrooper and Kasrkin Sanctioned Psyker fighting a xenos species of my own devising (for armed two legged wall crawling lizards with advanced las tech) in what amounts to an 18th century farmhouse. They wrecked the place, both of them were in CQB and it's stuff like "I stab it with a combat knife and then body slam the bastard into the fireplace," desperate shootouts in corridors, grenades in staircases and so on. The crit tables are really cool in that they make your successful strikes into much more than just doing some damage with maybe a negative modifier, there's bits of bodies everywhere, screaming, blood, laserburn and lost weapons. So good!
i really like the level 20 class feature for warlock where you basically call your mom for more spells per day.
In keeping with the theme of "5e doesn't really do anything that wasn't done better elsewhere"
The funny thing is that is also true of it attempting to be a 3e/4e hybrid.
I have found a character image for Hagrid:
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I am looking forward to this weekend.
It...kinda sucked. We started around 7, didn't have any combat until 9:30, and it was over by 10. My paladin blew all three spell slots basically just tanking a wererat, and didn't even get a killing blow.
It's fucking boring. In order to use my channel divinity I had to do absolutely nothing else that round, which sucked. The action economy has swung so far in the opposite direction of 4e that it's like...there's not even any point in doing something that will help you do other things, because you won't get to do any of those other things until next round and the whole encounter could be over by then if there's a caster on either side....
And now the DM is talking about when we start up a regular campaign that he's always felt like it should be lethal, PCs should die. And when they die, the player should have to start over at level 1 again.
Sooooo, not really sure I'm gonna be playing 5th edition much longer, to be honest.
Start over at level 1 upon death? Ridiculous!
As much as I liked 4e the books had no life to them, just like a plain black font on a flat white background with a beige-y gradient stripe to separate lines where it got important and I didn't find the art especially compelling
All the 5e preview images I've seen look beautiful, they look like a joy to read through visually but mechanically it doesn't appeal at all, especially because it feels like it goes back to casters being kings of everything
Considering how well the layout has been received it'd be pretty cool if wizard did a re-release of 4e with new layouts and art.
Satans..... hints.....
Nopenopenopenopenopenopenopenopenope.
Also @Solar yessssss Only War is excellent times, Matt lost a couple characters by the end of the campaign I ran with a bunch of buddies due to his balls being too goddamn big for his britches
First dude was a sergeant, got cleft from throat to groin by an ork slugga boy, second dude was an operator/commander who got ripped apart by a warboss when he deliberately pulled the hatch on the ork's tank to let his subordinates get to safety
They also had a psyker who had the misfortune of poking his head out of the hatch of a Chimera to fire a molten beam right about the time a traitor Hellhound doused the thing in burning promethium, so that was fun
The second longest surviving member of their squad, a heavy gunner who had chewed through a bunch of tanks with a multi-melta, got blown up by a looted Leman Russ when he fired on it and didn't quite manage to cook it through
That is some straight up bullshit.
So, who lasted longest?
And, as they ARE guardsmen, over or under 12 hours?
Why I fear the ocean.
Would totally be okay with that in, say, DCC RPG, but you know that you're going to die going into it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
The problem is that if the game is already lethal enough for my level 9 PC to be killed by a bone devil, what chance does my level 1 PC have?
You gotta successfully avoid being killed by a house cat for long enough to be remotely powerful, so sometimes it's just better to roll fighter and actually manage to catch up to the rest of the party