you know what the members did instead of being angry? they gave millions of dollars to help the cause, and when the lie came to light went 'oh well! God's will was done'
Honesty and integrity are only important when you're not hating gays.
When you are hating gays, you're encouraged to lie to people and do whatever it takes, because there's nothing God hates more than faggots.
do you get off knowing that thousands and thousands of non-mormon voters voted for prop 8
does that make you hot
i bet it doesn't
Over half of the financial support and a shit-ton (certainly a majority, likely much more) of the groundwork done for Prop 8 came from the Mormon Church. They're a group that people are hugely prejudiced against, largely on the basis of their marriage practices. You'd expect them to be sympathetic, rather than huge, bigoted douchebags. Well, at least, you would if they weren't insane cultists.
And they may not have made up a majority of the voters, but if it weren't for them, and their ridiculously hypocritical willingness to lie through their teeth and do whatever it takes to get it passed, it wouldn't be law today. But hey, you know, at least the church knows where its priorities are at. Lucky that in the Book of Mormon, the ninth commandment is "don't be gay," instead of "thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor," eh?
have you seen the icing on the cake of their audaciousness?
in their own book it says that they believe in being subject to magistrates, such as maybe the judges who made gay marriage legal maybe a little
D&C 134:3
"3. We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign."
or this one gets me each time on this issue
D&C 134:9
"9. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."
Does it really matter to me as long as the general idea gets across
Do I care if such and such event happened April 21 and not April 22
Nope and nope
Fuck you Phonehand
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Does it really matter to me as long as the general idea gets across
Do I care if such and such event happened April 21 and not April 22
Nope and nope
Fuck you Phonehand
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
I guess that's a Bad Thing for Mormons?
Short version of why, please, fuck you Phonehand I don't give a shit if something is incorrect as long as I get the gist
well to a mormon it is huge to no longer get the blessings of the church, it is why you pay tithing and all that, it is a big threat (if one gives a damn)
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
I guess that's a Bad Thing for Mormons?
Short version of why, please, fuck you Phonehand I don't give a shit if something is incorrect as long as I get the gist
well to a mormon it is huge to no longer get the blessings of the church, it is why you pay tithing and all that, it is a big threat (if one gives a damn)
Oh OK
I was curious, Catholics don't really have something analogous I don't think
Also we're supposed to tithe but really collection time Sunday is like "give us what you can/feel like"
Does it really matter to me as long as the general idea gets across
Do I care if such and such event happened April 21 and not April 22
Nope and nope
Fuck you Phonehand
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
I meant the cessation of blessings thing you twit
Ah well. My point still stands. People were doing bad things in California, man.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
As fond as I am of saying "blame the folks not the Church" I feel justified in blaming the church for all this
Does it really matter to me as long as the general idea gets across
Do I care if such and such event happened April 21 and not April 22
Nope and nope
Fuck you Phonehand
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
I meant the cessation of blessings thing you twit
Ah well. My point still stands. People were doing bad things in California, man.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
yeah, some of them do, and those dudes can join right in with us saying 'fuck/heck you mormon church' and some have.
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
Well, let's see, by being members of the church, that means that they tithe. So, they're giving financial support to the bigots, while giving lip service to reasonable, progressive ideology.
Only they don't actually say anything about thinking it was a terrible thing, so they're not actually paying lip service. So, really, the only way we'd know the difference between a Mormon who agreed with the church and a Mormon who disagreed with the church is by being able to read their minds. None of them actually affected the outcome in any meaningful way, other than by contributing to the "Yes on 8" campaign (by tithing). So, while they might think all these nice thoughts, that's all they are: nice thoughts. It's completely meaningless.
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
yeah, some of them do, and those dudes can join right in with us saying 'fuck/heck you mormon church' and some have.
Like it is in most religions, members understand that the leadership isn't infallible. I don't know your history with the church but some people aren't so keen to just drop their religious beliefs like that.
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
and the fact that the mormon church was what tipped the scales most likely, and that many many people voted for it out of retarded knee-jerk reaction to being told their kids would be taught buttsex in school
i mean, i was called because the church still has my number on their call lists, and they told my dad our family's names were going down on a list of dissenters being sent to utah because we were voting no.
they were threatening their members with a cessation of blessings over this
A lot of people did a lot of really sleazy and underhanded things so let's blame the church as a whole.
You mean like lying to the tune of 10,000% about how much their contributions were? Or threatening to boycott people who contributed to the "No on 8" campaign, then turning around and calling it persecution when it was turned around on them? Or trying to keep their lists of donors secret after using the same goddamn lists to threaten donors to the "No on 8" campaign?
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
yeah, some of them do, and those dudes can join right in with us saying 'fuck/heck you mormon church' and some have.
Like it is in most religions, members understand that the leadership isn't infallible. I don't know your history with the church but some people aren't so keen to just drop their religious beliefs like that.
so they don't have to drop their beliefs then. just protest. this country is built upon the damn stuff, going against those in charge doesn't mean you are defecting, but expressing displeasure is a very important thing.
if i go protest against the war in iraq, that doesn't mean i don't want to be an american, i just don't agree with the way certain things are being done, and i am making my displeasure known
yeah, some of them do, and those dudes can join right in with us saying 'fuck/heck you mormon church' and some have.
Like it is in most religions, members understand that the leadership isn't infallible. I don't know your history with the church but some people aren't so keen to just drop their religious beliefs like that.
So, they disagree with the church, just not enough to actually do anything about it.
Yeah, like I said: nice thoughts, completely meaningless.
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
as i trust you have all the proof saying that they are members? please. from the protests that i have read about, and even stopped and spoken to the people involved, there were hardly any members evident.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
Doesn't the Mormon church excommunicate people who don't tithe?
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
Doesn't the Mormon church excommunicate people who don't tithe?
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
naw, you just don't get the blessings involved. i am still on the member lists even though i have told my bishop i do not consider myself a member anymore, and i have never paid a dime
to them i am "inactive"
every few months they start coming around again bothering me, leaving cards, and i have to politely tell them i am not interested
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Really compassionate, progressive, silent members. Members who won't actually speak up for fear of being shunned by the rest of their church, including the people who actually run it.
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
as i trust you have all the proof saying that they are members? please. from the protests that i have read about, and even stopped and spoken to the people involved, there were hardly any members evident.
Good solid evidence for your claim. Protesting is bullshit. The only way to really do something about the issue would have been to vote against the proposition. Once again irrelevant as the Mormon population in California is like less than 2%.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
Doesn't the Mormon church excommunicate people who don't tithe?
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
Doesn't the Mormon church excommunicate people who don't tithe?
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
Wrong.
What percentage of regular LDS church attendees don't tithe? I suspect it's somewhere south of the 5% mark. I suspect it's substantially south of the 5% mark.
Phonehand, when your religion imposed political beliefs via a "pay to pray" program like the Mormons, most people don't end up openly disagreeing until it reaches a boiling point and a powerful "loyal opposition" is formed.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
I trust you have these figures handy?
Doesn't the Mormon church excommunicate people who don't tithe?
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
Wrong.
What percentage of regular LDS church attendees don't tithe? I suspect it's somewhere south of the 5% mark. I suspect it's substantially south of the 5% mark.
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
Right: they need some of it to keep gays and atheists out of the Boy Scouts, some of it to spread their particular brand of intolerance and bigotry throughout the world, and some of it to do everything they can to prevent gay people from ever being happy.
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
Right: they need some of it to keep gays and atheists out of the Boy Scouts, some of it to spread their particular brand of intolerance and bigotry throughout the world, and some of it to do everything they can to prevent gay people from ever being happy.
and some of it to feed the poor, and other amounts of it to fund their 2 billion dollar mall they are building across from the temple
Phonehand, when your religion imposed political beliefs via a "pay to pray" program like the Mormons, most people don't end up openly disagreeing until it reaches a boiling point and a powerful "loyal opposition" is formed.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
Once again, I don't attend church and I haven't for many years. Generally speaking, members of a religious organization are sheep. There are quite a few publications by members discrediting aspects of the church's leadership but that type of thing goes mostly unnoticed and many times those members are excommunicated. Just like lots of religions!
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
Right: they need some of it to keep gays and atheists out of the Boy Scouts, some of it to spread their particular brand of intolerance and bigotry throughout the world, and some of it to do everything they can to prevent gay people from ever being happy.
and some of it to feed the poor, and other amounts of it to fund their 2 billion dollar mall they are building across from the temple
Yes, "feeding the poor" is coupled with the "spreading their particular brand of intolerance and bigotry throughout the world."
Because you can't feed poor people without telling them that God wants them to hate the gays.
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
Right: they need some of it to keep gays and atheists out of the Boy Scouts, some of it to spread their particular brand of intolerance and bigotry throughout the world, and some of it to do everything they can to prevent gay people from ever being happy.
Phonehand, when your religion imposed political beliefs via a "pay to pray" program like the Mormons, most people don't end up openly disagreeing until it reaches a boiling point and a powerful "loyal opposition" is formed.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
Once again, I don't attend church and I haven't for many years. Generally speaking, members of a religious organization are sheep. There are quite a few publications by members discrediting aspects of the church's leadership but that type of thing goes mostly unnoticed and many times those members are excommunicated. Just like lots of religions!
And Wahhabi Muslims stone women for adultery, just like lots of religions. Since it's just like lots of religions, that makes it okay!
Posts
Do I care if such and such event happened April 21 and not April 22
Nope and nope
Fuck you Phonehand
have you seen the icing on the cake of their audaciousness?
in their own book it says that they believe in being subject to magistrates, such as maybe the judges who made gay marriage legal maybe a little
D&C 134:3
"3. We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign."
or this one gets me each time on this issue
D&C 134:9
"9. We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied."
The general gist is that there are extremists within the church who have a lot of money and a lot of pull with people. On the other hand, there are a great number of really compassionate and progressive members who felt a total sense dismay at what happened in California.
Based on passage 2 yes I do feel safe blaming the church
you are pretty hella too
i think we don't forum at the same time as much and also joanna newsom hasn't released and album in awhile so
I meant the cessation of blessings thing you twit
well to a mormon it is huge to no longer get the blessings of the church, it is why you pay tithing and all that, it is a big threat (if one gives a damn)
Sleazebag things like everything the church as a whole did during the campaign? Or sleazebag things like telling your followers to donate millions of dollars to help pass a law to fuck over people who don't want anything but to be allowed to love each other? Sleazebag shit like that?
Their behavior is unconscionable, and I'm not going to give them a pass because they trot out some bullshit about "religious freedom" and "persecution." They don't have any problem at all persecuting gay people or their supporters, so fuck them.
Oh OK
I was curious, Catholics don't really have something analogous I don't think
Also we're supposed to tithe but really collection time Sunday is like "give us what you can/feel like"
As fond as I am of saying "blame the folks not the Church" I feel justified in blaming the church for all this
That didn't answer my question you shit
Bel did though thank you Bel
Surprisingly, many members of the church also think it was a terrible thing! Wow, and fuck those guys too!
This is like saying "I knew a nice guy who was in the KKK. Therefore, the KKK must be full of nice people."
yeah, some of them do, and those dudes can join right in with us saying 'fuck/heck you mormon church' and some have.
You can't tell me that we should excuse people who, through their silence, condone bigotry.
Yeah, like all those people protesting the church in California and Salt Lake City. Fuck, man. Those guys are the worst.
Only they don't actually say anything about thinking it was a terrible thing, so they're not actually paying lip service. So, really, the only way we'd know the difference between a Mormon who agreed with the church and a Mormon who disagreed with the church is by being able to read their minds. None of them actually affected the outcome in any meaningful way, other than by contributing to the "Yes on 8" campaign (by tithing). So, while they might think all these nice thoughts, that's all they are: nice thoughts. It's completely meaningless.
not all, or even most, of them are members. there are lots of good mormon duders who are doing the right thing, there are many many many more who are not, whether by being silent now, or by giving money then.
Like it is in most religions, members understand that the leadership isn't infallible. I don't know your history with the church but some people aren't so keen to just drop their religious beliefs like that.
if i go protest against the war in iraq, that doesn't mean i don't want to be an american, i just don't agree with the way certain things are being done, and i am making my displeasure known
Yeah, like I said: nice thoughts, completely meaningless.
as i trust you have all the proof saying that they are members? please. from the protests that i have read about, and even stopped and spoken to the people involved, there were hardly any members evident.
So, 100% of the people who were in the church previous to the prop and are still in the church now financially supported it, and continue to financially support the ideology.
naw, you just don't get the blessings involved. i am still on the member lists even though i have told my bishop i do not consider myself a member anymore, and i have never paid a dime
to them i am "inactive"
every few months they start coming around again bothering me, leaving cards, and i have to politely tell them i am not interested
Wrong.
When the LDS schisms I'll say "hey, I can't make blanket statements about Mormon politics!" but until such time.... I've gotta say that whatever silent opposition in their ranks is useless because they've denied their own responsibility.
As soon as you obtain that confidential information from the church, then it will be relevant.
Also take into account that tithing money goes toward a great number of aspects of the church so people will continue to contribute regardless.
Regardless of how it goes, though, the Mormon church is still a fucking bigoted organization, full of some very nice bigoted, intolerant douchebags.
and some of it to feed the poor, and other amounts of it to fund their 2 billion dollar mall they are building across from the temple
Once again, I don't attend church and I haven't for many years. Generally speaking, members of a religious organization are sheep. There are quite a few publications by members discrediting aspects of the church's leadership but that type of thing goes mostly unnoticed and many times those members are excommunicated. Just like lots of religions!
Because you can't feed poor people without telling them that God wants them to hate the gays.
This thread filled up fast. Any chance of a summary?
Oh boy I think you've cracked the case, Sherlock.