That's a terrible reason. You're using basic heals as your example; of course those differ across healers. But a talented skill that has almost the exact same mechanic for each class, and one class gets a much much worse version of it? That's not balanced. I'm not saying they should work the same way, but there should at least be balance.
Except that Disc priests are balanced around shielding multiple people, paladin healers are not. Divine Sac isn't even in the holy tree, though that's largely irrelevant. Divine Sac also scales with HP, while PWB will presumably scale with spellpower. We have no idea what the scaling will be on either of these in Cataclysm.
The "well divine sac takes HP and that's not fair" argument seems silly to me, because they're completely different abilities. The paladin can also divine shield out of the damage, if memory serves.
At any rate, we have no idea how any of this is going to ultimately pan out.
Also, they indicate that PW:B will be constrained to a stationary area when cast. Divine Sac is not limited in any such fashion.
I think overall what they doing to shadow is great. Especially with Mind Spike since alot of issues that come up is mobs dying too fast and not enough of them to AoE'd. Certainly something to look forward to...
As for the leap of faith.... first thing that came to my mind was baddies in pug raids blaming priests for not pulling them out of fire.... If (again that is IF) that becomes a new priest spell, I just hope it's a holy spell...
That's a terrible reason. You're using basic heals as your example; of course those differ across healers. But a talented skill that has almost the exact same mechanic for each class, and one class gets a much much worse version of it? That's not balanced. I'm not saying they should work the same way, but there should at least be balance.
Except that Disc priests are balanced around shielding multiple people, paladin healers are not. Divine Sac isn't even in the holy tree, though that's largely irrelevant. Divine Sac also scales with HP, while PWB will presumably scale with spellpower. We have no idea what the scaling will be on either of these in Cataclysm.
The "well divine sac takes HP and that's not fair" argument seems silly to me, because they're completely different abilities. The paladin can also divine shield out of the damage, if memory serves.
At any rate, we have no idea how any of this is going to ultimately pan out.
Also, they indicate that PW:B will be constrained to a stationary area when cast. Divine Sac is not limited in any such fashion.
Where did you see that; I've only gotten a chance to read the priest notes and haven't read any follow-up Q&A. Could you repost it here?
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
A few quick clarifications:
Neither Inner Fire nor Inner Will has charges. The decision is on which armor you want up at the time.
Preventing dot clipping is something we want to do in general. It obviously benefits Shadow priests just as much as warlocks.
The idea behind Mind Spike is that you can't always settle into your normal, and high-ramp up rotation. It's also useful when you have to move or get school locked.
The closest analogue to PW:B is the DK Anti-Magic Zone, but it has some important differences, such as a way to counter it in PvP (since it absorbs all damage, not just magical damage).
The idea behind the Holy "cast three in a row" talent (it's called "Chakra") is that we've always positioned Holy as a versatile healer. This talent lets you shift into different modes. If you need to be a tank healer, cast three single target heals and your single-target healing is now better. Cast three area heals, and you can be a temporarily specialized group healer. We're going to try to play this mechanic up with a cool UI to try to get that "I'm almost in the zone" feel. We'll let it apply to as many types of spells as we can, perhaps even Smite for those times when nobody's taking damage.
We pulled Misery because we are pulling every group benefit that improves hit. It's annoying to have to swap your gear in and out depending on who shows up for your group. In general we're going to push even harder in Cataclysm for bringing people you like to play with, not bringing people who have awesome buffs. The answer to almost every question of "But why would they bring me?" should be "Because you know what the hell you're doing."
Yay, no more IF charges! And it looks like PW:B is just an analogue, doesn't necessarily mean it will function the same as AMZ. However I wouldn't mind if it made a big bubble on the ground though that could be neat.
Not sure how Mind Spike helps when you have to move since it has a cast time, maybe those Shadow Orbs will be used to make it instant cast temporarily like Maelstrom Weapon stacks.
The "well divine sac takes HP and that's not fair" argument seems silly to me, because they're completely different abilities. The paladin can also divine shield out of the damage, if memory serves.
Ah yes, a 5 minute CD can protect you from the talented ability's damage; that's perfectly balanced and clearly the two abilities are now equal and just as useful.
The "well divine sac takes HP and that's not fair" argument seems silly to me, because they're completely different abilities. The paladin can also divine shield out of the damage, if memory serves.
Ah yes, a 5 minute CD can protect you from the talented ability's damage; that's perfectly balanced and clearly the two abilities are now equal and just as useful.
/sarcasm off
Are you just bitching for the sake of bitching, or do you actually think this is creating some huge balance issue between Disc priests and holy paladins?
It's also worth noting that Divine Sac is only 11 points deep into prot and is thus technically available to any paladin spec, while presumably PWB will be deep enough in Disc that it's only available to Disc priests. We also don't know what the effectiveness PWB will be and for how many talent points. And of course, any/all of this is subject to change.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Leap of Faith will not make it to live. Just wait for the first video of levitating priests yanking people.
1. It will probably only work with people who are grouped together. I don't see it working any other way.
2. It will probably work like death grip. Probably exactly like death grip. In that you can't be moving to use it.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
that and paladin class changes haven't been announced yet.
have they? I'd hate to have missed them.
paladins will be coming very late because of blizzard not being prepared
here's what blizzard said:
Below is the schedule for each class:
Shaman - April 7
Priest - April 7
Warlock - April 7
Warrior - April 8
Death Knight - April 8
Rogue - April 8
Hunter - April 9
Druid - April 9
Mage - April 9
Paladin - April 16*
*The paladin is still deep in development. Instead of giving a preview that would be potentially less comprehensive than the other classes we made the decision to post it when it's ready, in order to properly honor the paladin class and those that play them. The wait isn't too long however as we're expecting to be able to post it on April 16.
If it had an aggro dump, that would just make it even more awesome. Otherwise I expect it to be "Oh shit rogue pulled the boss, Life Grip! OH SHIT THE BOSS CLEAVED THE WHOLE FUCKING RAID"
In which case, I'll dub this maneuver as Life Gib.
Even if the aggro dump was only temporary.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
The "well divine sac takes HP and that's not fair" argument seems silly to me, because they're completely different abilities. The paladin can also divine shield out of the damage, if memory serves.
Ah yes, a 5 minute CD can protect you from the talented ability's damage; that's perfectly balanced and clearly the two abilities are now equal and just as useful.
/sarcasm off
Are you just bitching for the sake of bitching, or do you actually think this is creating some huge balance issue between Disc priests and holy paladins?
It's also worth noting that Divine Sac is only 11 points deep into prot and is thus technically available to any paladin spec, while presumably PWB will be deep enough in Disc that it's only available to Disc priests. We also don't know what the effectiveness PWB will be and for how many talent points. And of course, any/all of this is subject to change.
Jesus, I said that exact same thing above! Is this an argument in which you tell me I'm wrong, and then proceed to repeat exactly what I posted 2 posts ago? I JUST SAID that the best argument against what I'm saying is that Divine Sac is shallow and PW:B may be deep.
I don't think it's going to create huge balance issues, I just want some freaking love. And as I said in my original post, we can't even say anything until we see the finalized trees for BOTH classes.
edit for what I said on the previous page:
Honestly, a much better reason is that Divine Sac is a talent that's very early in the prot tree, thus allowing holy pallies to take it, and it sounds like Power Word: Barrier will be a deeper disc talent. That reason alone is good enough to allow the lack of balance; but this is all hearsay until they tell us exactly where PW:B is going to be and whether Divine Sac is going to change.
???
Spacemilk on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited April 2010
Paladins are again proving to be the bastard child of design and require half a month longer for them to make decisions on .
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
on one hand leap of faith represents a massive griefing opportunity
on the other hand, i'm imagining a raid stacked with priests, handling both healing and tank positioning all by themselves (through instructing all the tanks not to move, and then letting shenanigans ensue)
on one hand leap of faith represents a massive griefing opportunity
on the other hand, i'm imagining a raid stacked with priests, handling both healing and tank positioning all by themselves (through instructing all the tanks not to move, and then letting shenanigans ensue)
reference: the old video from vanilla in which a raid full of priests only did Onyxia, with a shadow priest tanking. Repeat with leap of faith for a leapfrogging version.
Paladins are again proving to be the bastard child of design and require half a month longer for them to make decisions on .
I saw something similiar to this mentioned on the maintankadin boards: One thing you can count on by playing a paladin is completely relearning how to play your class every couple of years.
If it had an aggro dump, that would just make it even more awesome. Otherwise I expect it to be "Oh shit rogue pulled the boss, Life Grip! OH SHIT THE BOSS CLEAVED THE WHOLE FUCKING RAID"
In which case, I'll dub this maneuver as Life Gib.
Even if the aggro dump was only temporary.
Yeah, I'm not expecting it to get to live.
It's not that it's too much opportunity for griefing, misdirect already has that and it isn't abused much since it lost it's novelty.
The ability is just too narrow in what it can be useful for. It can get someone out of a fire, but it will only shine when the person is unable to get out himself from a stun or something.
Quetzatcoatl on
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
on one hand leap of faith represents a massive griefing opportunity
on the other hand, i'm imagining a raid stacked with priests, handling both healing and tank positioning all by themselves (through instructing all the tanks not to move, and then letting shenanigans ensue)
If it had an aggro dump, that would just make it even more awesome. Otherwise I expect it to be "Oh shit rogue pulled the boss, Life Grip! OH SHIT THE BOSS CLEAVED THE WHOLE FUCKING RAID"
In which case, I'll dub this maneuver as Life Gib.
Even if the aggro dump was only temporary.
Yeah, I'm not expecting it to get to live.
It's not that it's too much opportunity for griefing, misdirect already has that and it isn't abused much since it lost it's novelty.
The ability is just too narrow in what it can be useful for. It can get someone out of a fire, but it will only shine when the person is unable to get out himself from a stun or something.
Or, a fight like sindragosa, life gripping a retard to certain positions that has a hard time managing it or is just learning the fight.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Paladins are again proving to be the bastard child of design and require half a month longer for them to make decisions on .
I saw something similiar to this mentioned on the maintankadin boards: One thing you can count on by playing a paladin is completely relearning how to play your class every couple of years.
Paladins are again proving to be the bastard child of design and require half a month longer for them to make decisions on .
I saw something similiar to this mentioned on the maintankadin boards: One thing you can count on by playing a paladin is completely relearning how to play your class every couple of years.
No moreso than any other class.
Paladins have always been a mess to balance for PvP reasons. I just hope they add some interesting mechanics. Either way I'm going DPS this time. No more tanking for me.
I just hope they add something interesting for Retribution. Enh Shamans look interesting though. And I've always wanted to roll a Mage too. Hopefully they'll get Frostfire buffed.
Also does anyone else have trouble finding room for buttons for their priest? Especially when I compare my priest to my pally - my holy pally has no problem with room for buttons. When I go prot I have even more space. Yet my level 72 priest is already out of room and I haven't gotten the 80 talents yet, plus all this new stuff for cata... yikes.
I know what you mean. I don't want to be adding new bindings to this:
I dont play a priest but how many buttons does a priest usually use in a fight? I hear people say this about palys that they dont have many buttons to press, but in comparison to my mage or rogue its around double the amount of buttons(at least if you are a great paly healer)
1) Divine Favour
2) Divine Illumination
3) Divine Plea
4) Flash of Light
5) Holy Light
6) Holy Shock
7) Judgement of Wis
8) Judgement of Light
9) Avenging Wrath
10) Divine Shield
11) Divine Protection
12) Divine Sacrifice
13) Hand of Freedom
14) Trinket
Numbers 1 - 9 guaranteed on every fight, 7 being up 95% 8 5%, i judge whenever its off cd.
10 is Oh crap i need to do this, mind you if i do, something is going horribly wrong already.
11 i have to admit i dont use as much as i should
12 very situational for me as i usually pop my Wings in conjuntion with Plea and trinket, so im usually on CD
So generally theres 10 buttons i use as a holy paly that are always active on my bars. That doesnt count mana pots tho(LOL cant remember when i last needed one), Righteous Fury, consecrate(i do use these on trash/boss fights(toravon, marrowgar etc), holy wrath.
Im not sure id be able to handle more buttons than that to be honest...
And i forgot Cleanse, which is mostly done on HB anyway. I dont actually have Holy light/Flash on my bars(HB again), only Shock to see the CD on it.
mind you i also use HB for my mage for decursing one click and its gone.
Also does anyone else have trouble finding room for buttons for their priest? Especially when I compare my priest to my pally - my holy pally has no problem with room for buttons. When I go prot I have even more space. Yet my level 72 priest is already out of room and I haven't gotten the 80 talents yet, plus all this new stuff for cata... yikes.
I know what you mean. I don't want to be adding new bindings to this:
I dont play a priest but how many buttons does a priest usually use in a fight? I hear people say this about palys that they dont have many buttons to press, but in comparison to my mage or rogue its around double the amount of buttons(at least if you are a great paly healer)
1) Divine Favour
2) Divine Illumination
3) Divine Plea
4) Flash of Light
5) Holy Light
6) Holy Shock
7) Judgement of Wis
8) Judgement of Light
9) Avenging Wrath
10) Divine Shield
11) Divine Protection
12) Divine Sacrifice
13) Hand of Freedom
14) Trinket
Numbers 1 - 9 guaranteed on every fight, 7 being up 95% 8 5%, i judge whenever its off cd.
10 is Oh crap i need to do this, mind you if i do, something is going horribly wrong already.
11 i have to admit i dont use as much as i should
12 very situational for me as i usually pop my Wings in conjuntion with Plea and trinket, so im usually on CD
So generally theres 10 buttons i use as a holy paly that are always active on my bars. That doesnt count mana pots tho(LOL cant remember when i last needed one), Righteous Fury, consecrate(i do use these on trash/boss fights(toravon, marrowgar etc), holy wrath.
Im not sure id be able to handle more buttons than that to be honest...
You should macro those buttons together. Divine Illumination, Divine Plea, Divine Favor, Trinket, Blood Elf Racial and Judgement of Light can all be macro'd into one button for your mana restore button.
Currently, I have my buttons macro'd to SHIFT+ wasdqre, with others bound to just qre. Instead of having one button for every spell, you need to look into spells that will easily macro together and that work together so that you aren't wasting space.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will bring with it several changes to class talents and abilities. Here you will get a glimpse into some of the changes we have in store for the warrior. The information you're about to read is not complete, and is only meant to act as a preview for some of the exciting new things to come.
New Warrior Abilities
Inner Rage (Level 81): Whenever the character reaches a full 100 Rage, he or she will gain a buff that causes attacks to consume 50% more Rage and do 15% more damage for a short amount of time. This is a passive ability so it won't need to be activated by the player. The goal for this ability is to provide a benefit for hitting max Rage instead of it feeling like a penalty. However, we also don't want warriors to feel like they're supposed to pool Rage and do nothing until they hit 100, so we'll be closely monitoring how this plays out during the beta testing, and making adjustments as needed.
Gushing Wound (Level 83): This ability will apply a bleed effect to the target. If the target moves, the bleed gains an extra stack and refreshes its duration, up to a maximum of three stacks. The ability is currently planned to have no cooldown, cost 10 Rage, and have a 9-second duration. Gushing Wound is designed to be weaker than Rend with one stack, but better with three stacks, which will be reached when fighting a moving target.
Heroic Leap (Level 85): This ability makes the character leap at their target and apply the Thunder Clap ability to all enemies in the area when they land. Heroic Leap will be usable in Battle Stance and shares a cooldown with Charge, but the Juggernaut and Warbringer talents will allow Heroic Leap to be used in any stance and possibly while in combat. The cooldown for this ability might be longer than the Charge ability, but it will also apply a stun effect so you can make sure the target will still be there when you land.
Changes to Abilities and Mechanics
In addition to learning new abilities, you'll see changes to other abilities and mechanics with which you're already familiar. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we intend for each spec.
Heroic Strike will no longer be an "on next swing" attack, as we are removing this mechanic in Cataclysm. To keep the niche of Heroic Strike as a Rage dump, it will become an instant attack, but will cost between 10 and 30 Rage. This ability will not be usable until you have 10 Rage, but if you have more than 10, it will consume up to 30, adding additional damage for each point of Rage consumed above the base 10. Other abilities, such as Cleave, Execute, and Maul (for druids) will work similarly. The goal is to provide players with an option where if you can't afford the Rage, you don't push the button, but if you have excess Rage, you can push it a lot.
Battle Shout, Commanding Shout, and possibly Demoralizing Shout will work more like the death knight's Horn of Winter ability. Specifically, these shouts will cost no resources, generate rage in addition to their current effects, and be on a short cooldown.
Whirlwind will hit an unlimited number of targets, but only for 50% of weapon damage. The intent is for this ability to be used in multi-target scenarios and not on single targets.
Overall, heals cast by players in Cataclysm will be a lower number relative to players' health than the current game. So to make the Mortal Strike debuff less mandatory but still useful in PvP, Mortal Strike will reduce healing by only 20%. All equivalent debuffs, including the Shadow priest and Frost mage debuffs, will be for 20% less healing. At the moment we aren't considering giving this debuff to anyone else, though we will certainly consider PvP utility for historically under-represented specs that use other mechanics.
Sunder Armor will be reduced to three stacks instead of five, and still provide only a 4% reduction in armor per stack. We want to make this debuff easier to apply and less of a damage swing when it falls off.
New Talents and Talent Changes
The Furious Sundering talent in the Fury tree will make the Sunder Armor ability cause 25/50% weapon damage and reduce the threat generated by 50/100%.
The Mace and Poleaxe Specialization talents in the Arms tree will be removed. These provided just passive stats, which are not the kinds of talents we want to design in the future. We will keep the Sword Specialization talent, but it will be changed to a talent that applies to all types of weapons.
As a Fury talent, Booming Voice will increase the Rage generated by shouts.
While we like how Titan's Grip plays, we recognize some warriors liked the Fury tree because of the really fast swings that dual-wielding one-handed weapons could provide. Therefore, we're planning to try out a talent called Single-Minded Fury that is parallel to Titan's Grip and will provide a large boost to the damage of a pair of one-handed weapons.
Several talents that reduce the Rage cost of abilities will be changed to focus on increased damage for those abilities instead.
The new Arms talent called Disarming Nature will make successful disarms cause the target to cower in fear for 5/10 seconds.
Another new Arms talent called Blitz will make the Charge ability hit for extra damage. The amount will possibly vary depending on the distance travelled.
Improved Pummel, a Fury talent, will cause a successful interrupt to generate 10/20 Rage.
Bonus Swing: This is similar to the Sword Specialization talent that is currently in the game, but Bonus Swing will work on all attacks and with all weapons. You have a chance to proc a free, instant weapon swing that hits for 50% damage.
Enrage Intensity: Every benefit of being enraged is increased. This includes doing more damage/healing/ etc. from abilities like Bloodrage, Death Wish, Enrage, Berserker Rage, and Enraged Regeneration.
Critical Block Chance: As we mentioned in the stat changes preview, block rating is changing to a chance to block 30% of a melee swing's damage. Protection warriors have a chance that the block will be a critical block and block for 60% of a melee swing's damage instead. There will likely be talents available to push the amount blocked even higher.
Vengeance: This is a mechanic to ensure that tank damage (and therefore threat) doesn't fall behind as damage-dealing classes improve their gear during the course of the expansion. All tanking specs will have Vengeance as their second talent tree passive bonus. Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will give them a stacking attack power buff equal to 5% of the damage done, up to a maximum of 10% of the character's un-buffed health. For boss encounters, we expect that tanks will always have the attack power bonus equal to 10% of their health. The 5% and 10% bonuses assume 51 talent points have been put into the Protection tree. These values will be smaller at lower levels. Remember, you only get this bonus if you have spent the most talent points in the Protection tree, so you won't see Arms or Fury warriors running around with it. Vengeance will let us continue to make tank gear more or less the way we do today – there will be some damage-dealing stats, but mostly survival-oriented stats. Druids typically have more damage-dealing stats even on their tanking gear, so their Vengeance benefit may be smaller, but overall the goal is for all four tanks do about the same damage when tanking.
We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will bring with it several changes to class talents and abilities. Here you will get a glimpse into some of the changes we have in store for the warrior. The information you're about to read is not complete, and is only meant to act as a preview for some of the exciting new things to come.
New Warrior Abilities
Inner Rage (Level 81): Whenever the character reaches a full 100 Rage, he or she will gain a buff that causes attacks to consume 50% more Rage and do 15% more damage for a short amount of time. This is a passive ability so it won't need to be activated by the player. The goal for this ability is to provide a benefit for hitting max Rage instead of it feeling like a penalty. However, we also don't want warriors to feel like they're supposed to pool Rage and do nothing until they hit 100, so we'll be closely monitoring how this plays out during the beta testing, and making adjustments as needed.
Gushing Wound (Level 83): This ability will apply a bleed effect to the target. If the target moves, the bleed gains an extra stack and refreshes its duration, up to a maximum of three stacks. The ability is currently planned to have no cooldown, cost 10 Rage, and have a 9-second duration. Gushing Wound is designed to be weaker than Rend with one stack, but better with three stacks, which will be reached when fighting a moving target.
Heroic Leap (Level 85): This ability makes the character leap at their target and apply the Thunder Clap ability to all enemies in the area when they land. Heroic Leap will be usable in Battle Stance and shares a cooldown with Charge, but the Juggernaut and Warbringer talents will allow Heroic Leap to be used in any stance and possibly while in combat. The cooldown for this ability might be longer than the Charge ability, but it will also apply a stun effect so you can make sure the target will still be there when you land.
Changes to Abilities and Mechanics
In addition to learning new abilities, you'll see changes to other abilities and mechanics with which you're already familiar. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we intend for each spec.
Heroic Strike will no longer be an "on next swing" attack, as we are removing this mechanic in Cataclysm. To keep the niche of Heroic Strike as a Rage dump, it will become an instant attack, but will cost between 10 and 30 Rage. This ability will not be usable until you have 10 Rage, but if you have more than 10, it will consume up to 30, adding additional damage for each point of Rage consumed above the base 10. Other abilities, such as Cleave, Execute, and Maul (for druids) will work similarly. The goal is to provide players with an option where if you can't afford the Rage, you don't push the button, but if you have excess Rage, you can push it a lot.
Battle Shout, Commanding Shout, and possibly Demoralizing Shout will work more like the death knight's Horn of Winter ability. Specifically, these shouts will cost no resources, generate rage in addition to their current effects, and be on a short cooldown.
Whirlwind will hit an unlimited number of targets, but only for 50% of weapon damage. The intent is for this ability to be used in multi-target scenarios and not on single targets.
Overall, heals cast by players in Cataclysm will be a lower number relative to players' health than the current game. So to make the Mortal Strike debuff less mandatory but still useful in PvP, Mortal Strike will reduce healing by only 20%. All equivalent debuffs, including the Shadow priest and Frost mage debuffs, will be for 20% less healing. At the moment we aren't considering giving this debuff to anyone else, though we will certainly consider PvP utility for historically under-represented specs that use other mechanics.
Sunder Armor will be reduced to three stacks instead of five, and still provide only a 4% reduction in armor per stack. We want to make this debuff easier to apply and less of a damage swing when it falls off.
New Talents and Talent Changes
The Furious Sundering talent in the Fury tree will make the Sunder Armor ability cause 25/50% weapon damage and reduce the threat generated by 50/100%.
The Mace and Poleaxe Specialization talents in the Arms tree will be removed. These provided just passive stats, which are not the kinds of talents we want to design in the future. We will keep the Sword Specialization talent, but it will be changed to a talent that applies to all types of weapons.
As a Fury talent, Booming Voice will increase the Rage generated by shouts.
While we like how Titan's Grip plays, we recognize some warriors liked the Fury tree because of the really fast swings that dual-wielding one-handed weapons could provide. Therefore, we're planning to try out a talent called Single-Minded Fury that is parallel to Titan's Grip and will provide a large boost to the damage of a pair of one-handed weapons.
Several talents that reduce the Rage cost of abilities will be changed to focus on increased damage for those abilities instead.
The new Arms talent called Disarming Nature will make successful disarms cause the target to cower in fear for 5/10 seconds.
Another new Arms talent called Blitz will make the Charge ability hit for extra damage. The amount will possibly vary depending on the distance travelled.
Improved Pummel, a Fury talent, will cause a successful interrupt to generate 10/20 Rage.
Bonus Swing: This is similar to the Sword Specialization talent that is currently in the game, but Bonus Swing will work on all attacks and with all weapons. You have a chance to proc a free, instant weapon swing that hits for 50% damage.
Enrage Intensity: Every benefit of being enraged is increased. This includes doing more damage/healing/ etc. from abilities like Bloodrage, Death Wish, Enrage, Berserker Rage, and Enraged Regeneration.
Critical Block Chance: As we mentioned in the stat changes preview, block rating is changing to a chance to block 30% of a melee swing's damage. Protection warriors have a chance that the block will be a critical block and block for 60% of a melee swing's damage instead. There will likely be talents available to push the amount blocked even higher.
Vengeance: This is a mechanic to ensure that tank damage (and therefore threat) doesn't fall behind as damage-dealing classes improve their gear during the course of the expansion. All tanking specs will have Vengeance as their second talent tree passive bonus. Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will give them a stacking attack power buff equal to 5% of the damage done, up to a maximum of 10% of the character's un-buffed health. For boss encounters, we expect that tanks will always have the attack power bonus equal to 10% of their health. The 5% and 10% bonuses assume 51 talent points have been put into the Protection tree. These values will be smaller at lower levels. Remember, you only get this bonus if you have spent the most talent points in the Protection tree, so you won't see Arms or Fury warriors running around with it. Vengeance will let us continue to make tank gear more or less the way we do today – there will be some damage-dealing stats, but mostly survival-oriented stats. Druids typically have more damage-dealing stats even on their tanking gear, so their Vengeance benefit may be smaller, but overall the goal is for all four tanks do about the same damage when tanking.
We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.
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Also, they indicate that PW:B will be constrained to a stationary area when cast. Divine Sac is not limited in any such fashion.
I think overall what they doing to shadow is great. Especially with Mind Spike since alot of issues that come up is mobs dying too fast and not enough of them to AoE'd. Certainly something to look forward to...
As for the leap of faith.... first thing that came to my mind was baddies in pug raids blaming priests for not pulling them out of fire.... If (again that is IF) that becomes a new priest spell, I just hope it's a holy spell...
Where did you see that; I've only gotten a chance to read the priest notes and haven't read any follow-up Q&A. Could you repost it here?
Source
Yay, no more IF charges! And it looks like PW:B is just an analogue, doesn't necessarily mean it will function the same as AMZ. However I wouldn't mind if it made a big bubble on the ground though that could be neat.
Not sure how Mind Spike helps when you have to move since it has a cast time, maybe those Shadow Orbs will be used to make it instant cast temporarily like Maelstrom Weapon stacks.
/sarcasm off
Yeah I already said that.
Are you just bitching for the sake of bitching, or do you actually think this is creating some huge balance issue between Disc priests and holy paladins?
It's also worth noting that Divine Sac is only 11 points deep into prot and is thus technically available to any paladin spec, while presumably PWB will be deep enough in Disc that it's only available to Disc priests. We also don't know what the effectiveness PWB will be and for how many talent points. And of course, any/all of this is subject to change.
1. It will probably only work with people who are grouped together. I don't see it working any other way.
2. It will probably work like death grip. Probably exactly like death grip. In that you can't be moving to use it.
have they? I'd hate to have missed them.
paladins will be coming very late because of blizzard not being prepared
here's what blizzard said:
In which case, I'll dub this maneuver as Life Gib.
Even if the aggro dump was only temporary.
I don't think it's going to create huge balance issues, I just want some freaking love. And as I said in my original post, we can't even say anything until we see the finalized trees for BOTH classes.
edit for what I said on the previous page: ???
on the other hand, i'm imagining a raid stacked with priests, handling both healing and tank positioning all by themselves (through instructing all the tanks not to move, and then letting shenanigans ensue)
I saw something similiar to this mentioned on the maintankadin boards: One thing you can count on by playing a paladin is completely relearning how to play your class every couple of years.
Yeah, I'm not expecting it to get to live.
It's not that it's too much opportunity for griefing, misdirect already has that and it isn't abused much since it lost it's novelty.
The ability is just too narrow in what it can be useful for. It can get someone out of a fire, but it will only shine when the person is unable to get out himself from a stun or something.
Gnome priests, right?
Or, a fight like sindragosa, life gripping a retard to certain positions that has a hard time managing it or is just learning the fight.
No moreso than any other class.
Relearn my class? pfft!
I can actually seeing it being too useful for certain types of fights, particularly if they don't put an aggro dump on it.
I have to agree, it felt extraordinarily different on my tankadin between 3.0 and 3.1, let alone since 2.4. 4.0 should be even more fun!
Paladins have always been a mess to balance for PvP reasons. I just hope they add some interesting mechanics. Either way I'm going DPS this time. No more tanking for me.
I dont play a priest but how many buttons does a priest usually use in a fight? I hear people say this about palys that they dont have many buttons to press, but in comparison to my mage or rogue its around double the amount of buttons(at least if you are a great paly healer)
1) Divine Favour
2) Divine Illumination
3) Divine Plea
4) Flash of Light
5) Holy Light
6) Holy Shock
7) Judgement of Wis
8) Judgement of Light
9) Avenging Wrath
10) Divine Shield
11) Divine Protection
12) Divine Sacrifice
13) Hand of Freedom
14) Trinket
Numbers 1 - 9 guaranteed on every fight, 7 being up 95% 8 5%, i judge whenever its off cd.
10 is Oh crap i need to do this, mind you if i do, something is going horribly wrong already.
11 i have to admit i dont use as much as i should
12 very situational for me as i usually pop my Wings in conjuntion with Plea and trinket, so im usually on CD
So generally theres 10 buttons i use as a holy paly that are always active on my bars. That doesnt count mana pots tho(LOL cant remember when i last needed one), Righteous Fury, consecrate(i do use these on trash/boss fights(toravon, marrowgar etc), holy wrath.
Im not sure id be able to handle more buttons than that to be honest...
And i forgot Cleanse, which is mostly done on HB anyway. I dont actually have Holy light/Flash on my bars(HB again), only Shock to see the CD on it.
mind you i also use HB for my mage for decursing
What? Have they said they're getting rid of that?
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
45 seconds, as per the preview
and in response to the "i don't see it going live, it's of questionable use in too many situations"
see: intervene
That seems really short, considering the usefulness for kite fights.
But I guess a lot of classes already have tools for that
edit also taking bets on whether the token shot they give BM hunters tomorrow is called beast shot
because demon bolt is a lazy as shit name
Pins!
You should macro those buttons together. Divine Illumination, Divine Plea, Divine Favor, Trinket, Blood Elf Racial and Judgement of Light can all be macro'd into one button for your mana restore button.
Currently, I have my buttons macro'd to SHIFT+ wasdqre, with others bound to just qre. Instead of having one button for every spell, you need to look into spells that will easily macro together and that work together so that you aren't wasting space.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24038612592&sid=1
New Warrior Abilities
Inner Rage (Level 81): Whenever the character reaches a full 100 Rage, he or she will gain a buff that causes attacks to consume 50% more Rage and do 15% more damage for a short amount of time. This is a passive ability so it won't need to be activated by the player. The goal for this ability is to provide a benefit for hitting max Rage instead of it feeling like a penalty. However, we also don't want warriors to feel like they're supposed to pool Rage and do nothing until they hit 100, so we'll be closely monitoring how this plays out during the beta testing, and making adjustments as needed.
Gushing Wound (Level 83): This ability will apply a bleed effect to the target. If the target moves, the bleed gains an extra stack and refreshes its duration, up to a maximum of three stacks. The ability is currently planned to have no cooldown, cost 10 Rage, and have a 9-second duration. Gushing Wound is designed to be weaker than Rend with one stack, but better with three stacks, which will be reached when fighting a moving target.
Heroic Leap (Level 85): This ability makes the character leap at their target and apply the Thunder Clap ability to all enemies in the area when they land. Heroic Leap will be usable in Battle Stance and shares a cooldown with Charge, but the Juggernaut and Warbringer talents will allow Heroic Leap to be used in any stance and possibly while in combat. The cooldown for this ability might be longer than the Charge ability, but it will also apply a stun effect so you can make sure the target will still be there when you land.
Changes to Abilities and Mechanics
In addition to learning new abilities, you'll see changes to other abilities and mechanics with which you're already familiar. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we intend for each spec.
Heroic Strike will no longer be an "on next swing" attack, as we are removing this mechanic in Cataclysm. To keep the niche of Heroic Strike as a Rage dump, it will become an instant attack, but will cost between 10 and 30 Rage. This ability will not be usable until you have 10 Rage, but if you have more than 10, it will consume up to 30, adding additional damage for each point of Rage consumed above the base 10. Other abilities, such as Cleave, Execute, and Maul (for druids) will work similarly. The goal is to provide players with an option where if you can't afford the Rage, you don't push the button, but if you have excess Rage, you can push it a lot.
Battle Shout, Commanding Shout, and possibly Demoralizing Shout will work more like the death knight's Horn of Winter ability. Specifically, these shouts will cost no resources, generate rage in addition to their current effects, and be on a short cooldown.
Whirlwind will hit an unlimited number of targets, but only for 50% of weapon damage. The intent is for this ability to be used in multi-target scenarios and not on single targets.
Overall, heals cast by players in Cataclysm will be a lower number relative to players' health than the current game. So to make the Mortal Strike debuff less mandatory but still useful in PvP, Mortal Strike will reduce healing by only 20%. All equivalent debuffs, including the Shadow priest and Frost mage debuffs, will be for 20% less healing. At the moment we aren't considering giving this debuff to anyone else, though we will certainly consider PvP utility for historically under-represented specs that use other mechanics.
Sunder Armor will be reduced to three stacks instead of five, and still provide only a 4% reduction in armor per stack. We want to make this debuff easier to apply and less of a damage swing when it falls off.
New Talents and Talent Changes
The Furious Sundering talent in the Fury tree will make the Sunder Armor ability cause 25/50% weapon damage and reduce the threat generated by 50/100%.
The Mace and Poleaxe Specialization talents in the Arms tree will be removed. These provided just passive stats, which are not the kinds of talents we want to design in the future. We will keep the Sword Specialization talent, but it will be changed to a talent that applies to all types of weapons.
As a Fury talent, Booming Voice will increase the Rage generated by shouts.
While we like how Titan's Grip plays, we recognize some warriors liked the Fury tree because of the really fast swings that dual-wielding one-handed weapons could provide. Therefore, we're planning to try out a talent called Single-Minded Fury that is parallel to Titan's Grip and will provide a large boost to the damage of a pair of one-handed weapons.
Several talents that reduce the Rage cost of abilities will be changed to focus on increased damage for those abilities instead.
The new Arms talent called Disarming Nature will make successful disarms cause the target to cower in fear for 5/10 seconds.
Another new Arms talent called Blitz will make the Charge ability hit for extra damage. The amount will possibly vary depending on the distance travelled.
Improved Pummel, a Fury talent, will cause a successful interrupt to generate 10/20 Rage.
Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses
Arms
Melee Damage
Armor Penetration
Bonus Swing
Fury
Melee Damage
Melee Haste
Enrage Intensity
Protection
Damage Reduction
Vengeance
Critical Block Chance
Bonus Swing: This is similar to the Sword Specialization talent that is currently in the game, but Bonus Swing will work on all attacks and with all weapons. You have a chance to proc a free, instant weapon swing that hits for 50% damage.
Enrage Intensity: Every benefit of being enraged is increased. This includes doing more damage/healing/ etc. from abilities like Bloodrage, Death Wish, Enrage, Berserker Rage, and Enraged Regeneration.
Critical Block Chance: As we mentioned in the stat changes preview, block rating is changing to a chance to block 30% of a melee swing's damage. Protection warriors have a chance that the block will be a critical block and block for 60% of a melee swing's damage instead. There will likely be talents available to push the amount blocked even higher.
Vengeance: This is a mechanic to ensure that tank damage (and therefore threat) doesn't fall behind as damage-dealing classes improve their gear during the course of the expansion. All tanking specs will have Vengeance as their second talent tree passive bonus. Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will give them a stacking attack power buff equal to 5% of the damage done, up to a maximum of 10% of the character's un-buffed health. For boss encounters, we expect that tanks will always have the attack power bonus equal to 10% of their health. The 5% and 10% bonuses assume 51 talent points have been put into the Protection tree. These values will be smaller at lower levels. Remember, you only get this bonus if you have spent the most talent points in the Protection tree, so you won't see Arms or Fury warriors running around with it. Vengeance will let us continue to make tank gear more or less the way we do today – there will be some damage-dealing stats, but mostly survival-oriented stats. Druids typically have more damage-dealing stats even on their tanking gear, so their Vengeance benefit may be smaller, but overall the goal is for all four tanks do about the same damage when tanking.
We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.
edit: too slow