No dungeons? There are dungeons! Silly geese. Admittedly not like a ton of them but there are dungeons.
I have a slightly good feeling for WAR's future to be honest, 'Bioware Mythic' and all that. Perhaps with a boost from some Bioware blood they might be able to roll out some interesting things. Hell even some classes that needed a look at are getting some love next patch, with more changes to come.
The only real problem of course is population, I had hoped that somehow the European players would be intergrated into the NA servers , but as that is not the case I'm not sure when we might see a good boost in population.
No instanced dungeons until you hit 40, a level which I'd imagine most of the initial buyers never reached. And they're not bad, really. As for the others:
Mount Gunbad was too hard, too obscure, required a warband in Teir 3! and gave out 3 bags per PQ just like anything else. It felt like end game content, but you'd outlevel the rewards before you could actually finish the thing.
You could do Bastion Stair, which felt like the worst one to me. Same PQ system, boss content that was too hard (bugged?) for rewards you could get gear equivalent to by idling at keeps.
The city dungeons, Lost Vale, and much much later the LOTD bosses and Tomb of the Vulture Lord are pretty good. But they couldn't compare to the stuff Blizzard was rolling out after 5 years of practice.
IMO, they spent too much time running special events the first year instead of fixing the game. They should have saved them for later when people needed something to mix things up.
You are downright incorrect about there not being any instanced dungeons prior to T4, in fact they are in all tiers technically.
Hunter's Vale is available all year 'round, there is the Altdorf Sewers for Order, and the Sacellum for Destruction both of which drop excellent repairable gear plus PvE set pieces.
I'm not saying being rr80 doesn't net you an advantage its just not a i-win button advantage. Overtime they will post better results in DPS/Healing/Tanking, but they don't get to one shot you because their stats are 1000 times better than yours.
Many a RR80 Witch Hunter who's found my Marauder all lonely and such would like to have a word with you!
To be fair, a rr40 Witch Hunter using NerfButtons, stacking positional/str tactics getting a stealthed opener and hitting on his 5 point finisher would burn you down just as quick.
WH's and WE's have a sick TTK when landing their openers/finishers and getting positionals off.
This is relevant to my interests. Care to go into a bit more detail? Been playing around with NerfedButtons, but havn't been able to get it to do anything with the commands I've found on the NB discussion group.
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This is relevant to my interests. Care to go into a bit more detail? Been playing around with NerfedButtons, but havn't been able to get it to do anything with the commands I've found on the NB discussion group.
Kk, what are you trying to do with it? The graphical queue they built is pretty easy, just ensure you choose a hotkey when trying to save. They even added tooltips on the different selectable conditions.
Basically for anyone who doesn't know Nerfed Buttons will change the ability bound to a hotkey each keypress based on certain predefined factors you choose.
IE: For a MDPS you can bind your Snare, Anytime DPS and rear positional all to Hotkey 1, when you press 1 Nerfed buttons then if set up will choose what ability to show you next based on the order of operations you chose. So if Snare is top choice and not on cooldown it will show you that, when you hit 1 snare goes on cooldown and it will show you either Anytime DPS or your rear positional depending on if you are behind them or not.
For certain classess this is more powerful than others, BW's/Sorcs & WH's/WE's all have either cooldown, reactionary, positional abilities that offer much better returns than their anytime DPS and with practice NerfedButtons allows you fire them off almost everytime perfectly. (You have to pace your use of hotkeys with the GCD to help it select the next ability properly, spamming it can end up with your last choice more often then not.)
T1 has Hunters Vale or whatever it's called now. Never ran the thing tho...
Also, WoW is all about the PvE. You can't "advance" in that game if you don't PvE, for the most part anyway. WAR's PvE was indeed an after thought and I'm pretty sure Mythic actually believed that they had enough PvP content even after they cut the other cities. More lack of foresight from those who where once in charge and are now, hopefully, unemployed.
I don't think Mythic or Bioware Mythic as it is now needs to add a bunch of pure PvE content to bring in more people. Most players don't want that. What they want is more places to fight other players. They pretty much proved that you can indeed create a fun MMO with PvP as the focus. Oh they can put in more PvE places but what I would love to see are places that look like PvE but are actually PvP. TotVL was a good start and I'd like to see them expand upon that idea of a group of players vs another group vs NPCs.
I mean imagine all the nuts that would burst if they introduced Mordheim as a "raid" but more like Raid group vs Raid group vs enviornment. One raid groupd doesn't even have to really PvE they can just try to kill the other group. It'll be like a race against time or something.
You are downright incorrect about there not being any instanced dungeons prior to T4, in fact they are in all tiers technically.
Hunter's Vale is available all year 'round, there is the Altdorf Sewers for Order, and the Sacellum for Destruction both of which drop excellent repairable gear plus PvE set pieces.
The context of my first PvE post was at launch, and I was still speaking in that context.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the Special Event Dungeon that they retooled for Teir 1 a whole year after the launch of the game. The city dungeons that had all of 2 quests each, were winding mazes of rooms that all look alike, and weren't itemized for the first 6 months. Technically they are dungeons, but the sheer amount of frustration and boredom I experienced in my one run of the Teir 2 city dungeons had been suppressed by my subconscious until I had the misfortune of being reminded by your post.
If you want to play around with semantics...
Yes there were Teir 2 city dungeons that I totally forgot about. They had no introduction except for obscure quest givers located in the city, felt randomly generated by a computer, and didn't have any payoff for players at launch. As such they did not make it into dungeon status in my mind. Any character would be better served just skipping them entirely.
Gunbad and Bastion were REALM INSTANCED which is technically instanced, but meant you still had other groups of random people stumbling across the PQs and screwing things up or had to wait for one group to finish so you could take a turn doing the content.
Also, WoW is all about the PvE. You can't "advance" in that game if you don't PvE, for the most part anyway. WAR's PvE was indeed an after thought and I'm pretty sure Mythic actually believed that they had enough PvP content even after they cut the other cities. More lack of foresight from those who where once in charge and are now, hopefully, unemployed.
I'm not trying to argue that WAR should be more like WoW. In the 40k thread I specifically argue that trying to be like WoW is a terrible idea for a new MMO and I hope they have a good, long term plan for developing the game.
As for WAR, I do think they had a PvE focus, and PQs were a fresh concept for the genre. I don't remember specifics but I believe the game was originally even more like WoW with no open RvR, only Scenerios/Battlegrounds. They squeezed keeps and all that in after the vocal DAoC userbase kept pressuring them to.
I don't have any ill will towards Mythic and I've had fun with their games for over 2 years. I played WAR until my guild finally dwindled down to where we didn't even have six people around. Other things came up in real life and I had to take a break.
Gunbad at launch had instanced Bosses that dropped loot... You could bypass the PQ's altogether if you wanted the gear as well you could do all the pq's at launch with 1 group.
But really at launch who spent more than 3 days in Tier 2?!?! Instant scen pop's + sweet sweet bonus quest exp meant you level'd pretty damn fast. Tier 3 flew by just as quick!
Edit ** You posted again while I was on the phone and typing this out :P RvR Lakes were always in game, they just originally were only BO's no Keeps... The keeps were added after ex-DAOC players complained BO's weren't compelling enough, which is still true... Although with the server populations they originally pushed for they should have only stuck 1 keep per lake, not 2...
Early on T3(We're talking launch) was a goddamn black hole. It took so much exp to get from 25 to 30. Not only that, there was no reason to participate in RvR lakes because there was virtually no reward for keeping your renown rank up.
After all the massive changes to lakes, T3 became a den of completley awesome.
Edit ** You posted again while I was on the phone and typing this out :P RvR Lakes were always in game, they just originally were only BO's no Keeps... The keeps were added after ex-DAOC players complained BO's weren't compelling enough, which is still true... Although with the server populations they originally pushed for they should have only stuck 1 keep per lake, not 2...
Man, did they have a lot of servers at launch. I think I was merged twice/three times? after they didn't fill up. Yeah, I was pretty much in Teir 3 in the first week from Scenerios alone.
The keeps didn't feel like the problem, there was something funky with the math they used for zone flips. It felt really disconnected from how BO/Keep ownership worked. The RvR system did not feel well thought out.
I don't suppose there are any european players around here who know how the transfer to mythic actually worked? I had a trial acc and a long time inactive account that I always keep meaning to get back to...then a steam sale rolls along. I'd like to find out if they both still exist somewhere. No idea which server they're on now - when I started they were on Karak-Hirn, one of the most populated EU servers, which is long since dead. The patcher doesn't seem to like my acc details so I can't find out much else.
Suprisingly enough the servers DID fill up, Red-Eye of the pre-launch servers was maxed out first day and had 2 hour queues... But still felt empty, they just had WAYYYY too many servers and WAYYYYY too low a pop cap. Shot themselves in the foot about 100 times over there, yup whoever planned that out definitely put the first nail in the coffin.
I don't suppose there are any european players around here who know how the transfer to mythic actually worked? I had a trial acc and a long time inactive account that I always keep meaning to get back to...then a steam sale rolls along. I'd like to find out if they both still exist somewhere. No idea which server they're on now - when I started they were on Karak-Hirn, one of the most populated EU servers, which is long since dead. The patcher doesn't seem to like my acc details so I can't find out much else.
I don't think you can log into the patcher without an active (subscribed) account. Your best bet is probably to try logging in at:
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
This game was never going to beat wow. It's way too pvp focused and the pvp is focused around teams not individuals.
Wow lets each little person feel special. This game stamps down hard on individuals unless they work together, which has it's own reward that is quite different from an individual reward. I personally find it much more satisfying.
I mean, this is what PQ's are, ultimately. An attempt to bring multiple people together who normally would ignore each other into doing something together for a common goal. PQ's are team generators.
Most comparisons between wow and war ignore the completely different approaches in each mmo.
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Blizzard took an approach to developing WoW that had a focus on making a game people would actually want to play, which Mythic should've taken a page from. :P
I miss Dark Age of Camelot.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Blizzard took an approach to developing WoW that had a focus on making a game people would actually want to play, which Mythic should've taken a page from. :P
I miss Dark Age of Camelot.
I want to play this game. Because I don't want to be a special snowflake. I want to work as a team.
You too are missing this crucial difference and assuming being a special snowflake is what everybody wants.
I was completely addicted to wow, but that's all it was. An addiction.
People need to stop trotting out this silly argument that other mmos should be like wow. No, no they should not. No mmo should be like wow. Wow has that covered. It's the best dealer in town, nobody is going to be muscling in on that.
And if they did....people would claim "It's too much like wow"
This is an argument that leads nowhere.
the mistake mythic made was trying to be too much like wow, they should have gone off completely in their own direction.
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Blizzard took an approach to developing WoW that had a focus on making a game people would actually want to play, which Mythic should've taken a page from. :P
I miss Dark Age of Camelot.
I want to play this game. Because I don't want to be a special snowflake. I want to work as a team.
You too are missing this crucial difference and assuming being a special snowflake is what everybody wants.
I was completely addicted to wow, but that's all it was. An addiction.
/agree. Special snowflake status is fine but is definately not a defining attraction of mine when it comes to MMOs ethier.
WoW is also in my opinion a game less to be played now for enjoyment then a game to play as a e-sport or a way to rent your friends for the evening when you have nothing better to do. 1-80 is a joke, and endgame is nothing but raiding and PvP, one of which these days requires a set gearscore and achievement link to even get into a pug with, and the other has become a repetitive perdictable and often imbalanced clusterfuck of BGs, OP arena teams and laggy WG.
WAR is not perfect, and it's creators made bad decisions implementing it and developing it. WoW had less of these issues in the beginning, but has over time become tainted by Activision and has not aged well. At least WAR is trying to better it's weak points and prop up it's wicked PvP, and not make the game easier in ways like what WoW has done. Comparing the two is fruitless and stupid because they are different games, with different focuses and different creators and different gameplay.
Wow lets each little person feel special. This game stamps down hard on individuals unless they work together, which has it's own reward that is quite different from an individual reward. I personally find it much more satisfying.
I mean, this is what PQ's are, ultimately. An attempt to bring multiple people together who normally would ignore each other into doing something together for a common goal. PQ's are team generators.
PQs as a concept were great, but Mythic's implementation seemed rushed and untested. They didn't generate the desired cooperation for a few reasons:
- You needed a team to start them. Some PQs were way harder to do than the content they were placed in the middle of. You couldn't work on them solo and have more people join because the instant you flipped into phase 2, all the mobs would kill you 1 on 1.
- They were too short. Most phases had a 5-10 minute time limit. Thats hardly enough time for other casual players to stumble across you, talk to you about grouping, and then group up and finish killing stuff. Sure you can spam the zone chat looking, but there's no guarantee you'll find anyone.
- Not enough loot. They added more bags awhile ago, and maybe its not a big deal anymore, but at release you didn't want more than 2 or 3 people because then not everyone would get a bag. If you did get a bag, there was generally no reason to rerun the PQ because it always drops the same item excluding 1 in a million rare/epic/gold bags.
- Boring. Most PQs were variations on the kill 20 X quest. Some required you to kill 100s of mobs before getting to phase 2. If you got to phase 3 and couldn't handle the final stage, frustration at the half hour you just wasted compelled you to just skip PQs in the future. Some PQs were totally bugged too. Did they ever fix Order's PQ in Praag with the Steam Tank driver? The first time I found it, I walked around that thing for a while before I realized I was wasting my time.
The LOTD PQs were a general improvement over the original zones. I know they were going back to rebalance the original PQs, but by then the majority of the population needed to make PQs busy were already gone.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Wow lets each little person feel special. This game stamps down hard on individuals unless they work together, which has it's own reward that is quite different from an individual reward. I personally find it much more satisfying.
I mean, this is what PQ's are, ultimately. An attempt to bring multiple people together who normally would ignore each other into doing something together for a common goal. PQ's are team generators.
PQs as a concept were great, but Mythic's implementation seemed rushed and untested. They didn't generate the desired cooperation for a few reasons:
- You needed a team to start them. Some PQs were way harder to do than the content they were placed in the middle of. You couldn't work on them solo and have more people join because the instant you flipped into phase 2, all the mobs would kill you 1 on 1.
- They were too short. Most phases had a 5-10 minute time limit. Thats hardly enough time for other casual players to stumble across you, talk to you about grouping, and then group up and finish killing stuff. Sure you can spam the zone chat looking, but there's no guarantee you'll find anyone.
- Not enough loot. They added more bags awhile ago, and maybe its not a big deal anymore, but at release you didn't want more than 2 or 3 people because then not everyone would get a bag. If you did get a bag, there was generally no reason to rerun the PQ because it always drops the same item excluding 1 in a million rare/epic/gold bags.
- Boring. Most PQs were variations on the kill 20 X quest. Some required you to kill 100s of mobs before getting to phase 2. If you got to phase 3 and couldn't handle the final stage, frustration at the half hour you just wasted compelled you to just skip PQs in the future. Some PQs were totally bugged too. Did they ever fix Order's PQ in Praag with the Steam Tank driver? The first time I found it, I walked around that thing for a while before I realized I was wasting my time.
The LOTD PQs were a general improvement over the original zones. I know they were going back to rebalance the original PQs, but by then the majority of the population needed to make PQs busy were already gone.
Yeah sure, they had all these problems. I didn't say they were perfect. I was telling you what the design intent was.
What you are telling me is the opinion of an individual when presented with something requiring a team. Ie Can't be fucked. I mean no surprises there.
You never wasted your time in PQ's because you could let the stage 1 reset and keep going to get influence at the rally master. So I guess you never realised that or never wanted those weapons. I wanted them when I was levelling.
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Some PQs were totally bugged too. Did they ever fix Order's PQ in Praag with the Steam Tank driver? The first time I found it, I walked around that thing for a while before I realized I was wasting my time.
Yeah, they fixed it.
And by "fixed," I mean "removed."
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PQ's are easy to score top's on, they really haven't changed the contribution mechanics at all... They just removed the hidden super bonus you carried around for losing other PQ's. But honestly once you figure out how contribution is calculated, its pretty easy to be in the top 3
I dunno, they gave out slightly better than quest equivalent loot and you earned influence for guaranteed rewards so even if you missed out on 3 straight you still ended up with a blue. I really liked the idea and hope to find it going forwards. It was a nice break from questing and they have refined it to a much better state with the smaller pq's and the way bags/influence farming works.
I thought they worked really well if the ambient population was right. Too few people in an area and they sucked... you'd be grinding stage 1 forever, then you couldn't finish the PQ because you didn't have enough people. If you had too many people the PQ would finish fast, maybe too fast, but some classes consistently got more contribution than others (I'm looking at you, DoKs / WPs) and your chances of winning one of the bags was severely diminished due to the competition. The idea behind them is great, they just needed tuning so the sweet spot in terms of number of players participating wasn't so narrow. They may be better now then when I last played, but when I left the leveling areas were perma ghost towns and PQs always had too few people participating as a result.
Does the game come with a free month or something? I keep seeing it for like $10au in EB, and keep thinking of grabbing it at least to try.
Yes, in fact you can go to warhammeronline.com download the free trial, and play from levels 1-10 for free, forever. If you decided you like it, come back here and have someone send you a referral, that way when you buy the game they got a free month in addition to your free month.
Not sure about Australia, but for anyone in America you can also go to amazon and order the collectors edition with all the neat swag for 14 bucks, which comes with a free month. Heck if you just want the swag order it and use the free month code.
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I didn't say WAR should be like WoW. Just that it would've been nice if they had made a game that was good. I tried to play WAR, and to me it wasn't any good. It has nothing to do with any stupid snowflake argument. I don't even like WoW, but at least they made a game people want to play.
Camelot was awesome, which is why it blows my mind that Warhammer couldn't at least be as good as that game. Oh well.
I didn't say WAR should be like WoW. Just that it would've been nice if they had made a game that was good. I tried to play WAR, and to me it wasn't any good. It has nothing to do with any stupid snowflake argument. I don't even like WoW, but at least they made a game people want to play.
Camelot was awesome, which is why it blows my mind that Warhammer couldn't at least be as good as that game. Oh well.
Right so this was a miscommunication because what you said was "They should have taken a page from Wow"
I mean perhaps you didn't realise that this implies acceptance of Wow. But regardless of your mistake, this was what you communicated. I responded to what you actually communicated, not what you intended to communicate.
But anyway, now that you've managed to express what you really meant, I don't have a problem.
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Morninglord we should duel sometime. I needs the practice on my WL.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
I'm a freaking healing dok without a set of strength gear.
It's not gonna be a particularly enthralling contest. Either you kill me straight away...or I wear you down over ten minutes....
I generally detaunt white lions and call for paca to pull them off me and do horrible nasty things to them with his awesome rr 80 goodness. Or someone else on my team if he's not with me.
I haven't been able to play much the last couple of days, gonna have to get some hours in tomorrow.
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I'm in game on a free trial with my new shaman. I'll sub after I hit 10. Send me a tell if you happen to be kicking around Teir 1 on Iron Rock and need a healbot.
Name is Peqooz in honor of last page's rousing discussion
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Whats the name of your white lion transporter?
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ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
How's the population on the remaining servers?
Am I going to have to wait half an hour for a scenario to pop in T2?
Is the game actually decent, balance-wise now? IE, no more Chosen characters not even being able to kill something unless they're twinked out and at the max level for their tier? No more Order wizards being the best at almost everything (Except tanking.), etc, etc?
I was hoping to get an analysis as to whether I should bother coming back. I found the game entertaining enough at release, but when I quit, Chosen, my favorite class, had absolutely dire DPS due to some changes. I couldn't even take out a freaking MDPS class anymore without being at max level and twinked out with gear. The rest of the game wasn't that much better too.
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I have a slightly good feeling for WAR's future to be honest, 'Bioware Mythic' and all that. Perhaps with a boost from some Bioware blood they might be able to roll out some interesting things. Hell even some classes that needed a look at are getting some love next patch, with more changes to come.
The only real problem of course is population, I had hoped that somehow the European players would be intergrated into the NA servers , but as that is not the case I'm not sure when we might see a good boost in population.
Mount Gunbad was too hard, too obscure, required a warband in Teir 3! and gave out 3 bags per PQ just like anything else. It felt like end game content, but you'd outlevel the rewards before you could actually finish the thing.
You could do Bastion Stair, which felt like the worst one to me. Same PQ system, boss content that was too hard (bugged?) for rewards you could get gear equivalent to by idling at keeps.
The city dungeons, Lost Vale, and much much later the LOTD bosses and Tomb of the Vulture Lord are pretty good. But they couldn't compare to the stuff Blizzard was rolling out after 5 years of practice.
IMO, they spent too much time running special events the first year instead of fixing the game. They should have saved them for later when people needed something to mix things up.
Hunter's Vale is available all year 'round, there is the Altdorf Sewers for Order, and the Sacellum for Destruction both of which drop excellent repairable gear plus PvE set pieces.
This is relevant to my interests. Care to go into a bit more detail? Been playing around with NerfedButtons, but havn't been able to get it to do anything with the commands I've found on the NB discussion group.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Kk, what are you trying to do with it? The graphical queue they built is pretty easy, just ensure you choose a hotkey when trying to save. They even added tooltips on the different selectable conditions.
Basically for anyone who doesn't know Nerfed Buttons will change the ability bound to a hotkey each keypress based on certain predefined factors you choose.
IE: For a MDPS you can bind your Snare, Anytime DPS and rear positional all to Hotkey 1, when you press 1 Nerfed buttons then if set up will choose what ability to show you next based on the order of operations you chose. So if Snare is top choice and not on cooldown it will show you that, when you hit 1 snare goes on cooldown and it will show you either Anytime DPS or your rear positional depending on if you are behind them or not.
For certain classess this is more powerful than others, BW's/Sorcs & WH's/WE's all have either cooldown, reactionary, positional abilities that offer much better returns than their anytime DPS and with practice NerfedButtons allows you fire them off almost everytime perfectly. (You have to pace your use of hotkeys with the GCD to help it select the next ability properly, spamming it can end up with your last choice more often then not.)
Also, WoW is all about the PvE. You can't "advance" in that game if you don't PvE, for the most part anyway. WAR's PvE was indeed an after thought and I'm pretty sure Mythic actually believed that they had enough PvP content even after they cut the other cities. More lack of foresight from those who where once in charge and are now, hopefully, unemployed.
I don't think Mythic or Bioware Mythic as it is now needs to add a bunch of pure PvE content to bring in more people. Most players don't want that. What they want is more places to fight other players. They pretty much proved that you can indeed create a fun MMO with PvP as the focus. Oh they can put in more PvE places but what I would love to see are places that look like PvE but are actually PvP. TotVL was a good start and I'd like to see them expand upon that idea of a group of players vs another group vs NPCs.
I mean imagine all the nuts that would burst if they introduced Mordheim as a "raid" but more like Raid group vs Raid group vs enviornment. One raid groupd doesn't even have to really PvE they can just try to kill the other group. It'll be like a race against time or something.
The context of my first PvE post was at launch, and I was still speaking in that context.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the Special Event Dungeon that they retooled for Teir 1 a whole year after the launch of the game. The city dungeons that had all of 2 quests each, were winding mazes of rooms that all look alike, and weren't itemized for the first 6 months. Technically they are dungeons, but the sheer amount of frustration and boredom I experienced in my one run of the Teir 2 city dungeons had been suppressed by my subconscious until I had the misfortune of being reminded by your post.
If you want to play around with semantics...
Yes there were Teir 2 city dungeons that I totally forgot about. They had no introduction except for obscure quest givers located in the city, felt randomly generated by a computer, and didn't have any payoff for players at launch. As such they did not make it into dungeon status in my mind. Any character would be better served just skipping them entirely.
Gunbad and Bastion were REALM INSTANCED which is technically instanced, but meant you still had other groups of random people stumbling across the PQs and screwing things up or had to wait for one group to finish so you could take a turn doing the content.
I'm not trying to argue that WAR should be more like WoW. In the 40k thread I specifically argue that trying to be like WoW is a terrible idea for a new MMO and I hope they have a good, long term plan for developing the game.
As for WAR, I do think they had a PvE focus, and PQs were a fresh concept for the genre. I don't remember specifics but I believe the game was originally even more like WoW with no open RvR, only Scenerios/Battlegrounds. They squeezed keeps and all that in after the vocal DAoC userbase kept pressuring them to.
I don't have any ill will towards Mythic and I've had fun with their games for over 2 years. I played WAR until my guild finally dwindled down to where we didn't even have six people around. Other things came up in real life and I had to take a break.
But really at launch who spent more than 3 days in Tier 2?!?! Instant scen pop's + sweet sweet bonus quest exp meant you level'd pretty damn fast. Tier 3 flew by just as quick!
Edit ** You posted again while I was on the phone and typing this out :P RvR Lakes were always in game, they just originally were only BO's no Keeps... The keeps were added after ex-DAOC players complained BO's weren't compelling enough, which is still true... Although with the server populations they originally pushed for they should have only stuck 1 keep per lake, not 2...
After all the massive changes to lakes, T3 became a den of completley awesome.
Then LoTD came out. And it killed T3.
Will never forgive it for that.
Man, did they have a lot of servers at launch. I think I was merged twice/three times? after they didn't fill up. Yeah, I was pretty much in Teir 3 in the first week from Scenerios alone.
The keeps didn't feel like the problem, there was something funky with the math they used for zone flips. It felt really disconnected from how BO/Keep ownership worked. The RvR system did not feel well thought out.
I don't think you can log into the patcher without an active (subscribed) account. Your best bet is probably to try logging in at:
https://accounts.eamythic.com/
Wow lets each little person feel special. This game stamps down hard on individuals unless they work together, which has it's own reward that is quite different from an individual reward. I personally find it much more satisfying.
I mean, this is what PQ's are, ultimately. An attempt to bring multiple people together who normally would ignore each other into doing something together for a common goal. PQ's are team generators.
Most comparisons between wow and war ignore the completely different approaches in each mmo.
Is there Orc's? Yes.
Is there Humans? Yes.
Is it a Fantasy setting? Yes.
OMGJUSTLIKEWOW.
Seething hatred for them all!
I love that strip.
I miss Dark Age of Camelot.
I want to play this game. Because I don't want to be a special snowflake. I want to work as a team.
You too are missing this crucial difference and assuming being a special snowflake is what everybody wants.
I was completely addicted to wow, but that's all it was. An addiction.
People need to stop trotting out this silly argument that other mmos should be like wow. No, no they should not. No mmo should be like wow. Wow has that covered. It's the best dealer in town, nobody is going to be muscling in on that.
And if they did....people would claim "It's too much like wow"
This is an argument that leads nowhere.
the mistake mythic made was trying to be too much like wow, they should have gone off completely in their own direction.
/agree. Special snowflake status is fine but is definately not a defining attraction of mine when it comes to MMOs ethier.
WoW is also in my opinion a game less to be played now for enjoyment then a game to play as a e-sport or a way to rent your friends for the evening when you have nothing better to do. 1-80 is a joke, and endgame is nothing but raiding and PvP, one of which these days requires a set gearscore and achievement link to even get into a pug with, and the other has become a repetitive perdictable and often imbalanced clusterfuck of BGs, OP arena teams and laggy WG.
WAR is not perfect, and it's creators made bad decisions implementing it and developing it. WoW had less of these issues in the beginning, but has over time become tainted by Activision and has not aged well. At least WAR is trying to better it's weak points and prop up it's wicked PvP, and not make the game easier in ways like what WoW has done. Comparing the two is fruitless and stupid because they are different games, with different focuses and different creators and different gameplay.
PQs as a concept were great, but Mythic's implementation seemed rushed and untested. They didn't generate the desired cooperation for a few reasons:
- You needed a team to start them. Some PQs were way harder to do than the content they were placed in the middle of. You couldn't work on them solo and have more people join because the instant you flipped into phase 2, all the mobs would kill you 1 on 1.
- They were too short. Most phases had a 5-10 minute time limit. Thats hardly enough time for other casual players to stumble across you, talk to you about grouping, and then group up and finish killing stuff. Sure you can spam the zone chat looking, but there's no guarantee you'll find anyone.
- Not enough loot. They added more bags awhile ago, and maybe its not a big deal anymore, but at release you didn't want more than 2 or 3 people because then not everyone would get a bag. If you did get a bag, there was generally no reason to rerun the PQ because it always drops the same item excluding 1 in a million rare/epic/gold bags.
- Boring. Most PQs were variations on the kill 20 X quest. Some required you to kill 100s of mobs before getting to phase 2. If you got to phase 3 and couldn't handle the final stage, frustration at the half hour you just wasted compelled you to just skip PQs in the future. Some PQs were totally bugged too. Did they ever fix Order's PQ in Praag with the Steam Tank driver? The first time I found it, I walked around that thing for a while before I realized I was wasting my time.
The LOTD PQs were a general improvement over the original zones. I know they were going back to rebalance the original PQs, but by then the majority of the population needed to make PQs busy were already gone.
Yeah sure, they had all these problems. I didn't say they were perfect. I was telling you what the design intent was.
What you are telling me is the opinion of an individual when presented with something requiring a team. Ie Can't be fucked. I mean no surprises there.
You never wasted your time in PQ's because you could let the stage 1 reset and keep going to get influence at the rally master. So I guess you never realised that or never wanted those weapons. I wanted them when I was levelling.
If you've already got a group together, you're gonna be pissed because some guy came by and killed one mob and now has a chance at loot you worked on.
It was designed for community building, but implemented as a lose-lose situation.
I grinded phase 1 for influence rewards like everyone else, but it felt like punishment for Mythic's mistakes, not fun.
Yeah, they fixed it.
And by "fixed," I mean "removed."
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I dunno, they gave out slightly better than quest equivalent loot and you earned influence for guaranteed rewards so even if you missed out on 3 straight you still ended up with a blue. I really liked the idea and hope to find it going forwards. It was a nice break from questing and they have refined it to a much better state with the smaller pq's and the way bags/influence farming works.
Yes, in fact you can go to warhammeronline.com download the free trial, and play from levels 1-10 for free, forever. If you decided you like it, come back here and have someone send you a referral, that way when you buy the game they got a free month in addition to your free month.
Not sure about Australia, but for anyone in America you can also go to amazon and order the collectors edition with all the neat swag for 14 bucks, which comes with a free month. Heck if you just want the swag order it and use the free month code.
Handy Link Is Handy!
I didn't say WAR should be like WoW. Just that it would've been nice if they had made a game that was good. I tried to play WAR, and to me it wasn't any good. It has nothing to do with any stupid snowflake argument. I don't even like WoW, but at least they made a game people want to play.
Camelot was awesome, which is why it blows my mind that Warhammer couldn't at least be as good as that game. Oh well.
Right so this was a miscommunication because what you said was "They should have taken a page from Wow"
I mean perhaps you didn't realise that this implies acceptance of Wow. But regardless of your mistake, this was what you communicated. I responded to what you actually communicated, not what you intended to communicate.
But anyway, now that you've managed to express what you really meant, I don't have a problem.
It's not gonna be a particularly enthralling contest. Either you kill me straight away...or I wear you down over ten minutes....
I generally detaunt white lions and call for paca to pull them off me and do horrible nasty things to them with his awesome rr 80 goodness. Or someone else on my team if he's not with me.
I haven't been able to play much the last couple of days, gonna have to get some hours in tomorrow.
Name is Peqooz in honor of last page's rousing discussion
get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com
Am I going to have to wait half an hour for a scenario to pop in T2?
Is the game actually decent, balance-wise now? IE, no more Chosen characters not even being able to kill something unless they're twinked out and at the max level for their tier? No more Order wizards being the best at almost everything (Except tanking.), etc, etc?
I was hoping to get an analysis as to whether I should bother coming back. I found the game entertaining enough at release, but when I quit, Chosen, my favorite class, had absolutely dire DPS due to some changes. I couldn't even take out a freaking MDPS class anymore without being at max level and twinked out with gear. The rest of the game wasn't that much better too.