I'm actually rather pissed at nvidia about now, given that I have their dx10 hardware and they haven't released a driver for it :roll: , even more comical is that dx10 was really all I wanted from vista.
Drivers: This is something they'll be working on right up until the consumer release. There will be significantly more drivers available on windows update on release than in any of the previous betas.
HDCP, DRM, etc: Support for these things is orthogonal to the operating system. It doesn't do anything less because it supports those things. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the companies who put stuff out with DRM on it.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
I'm going to wait till I can get it thru work at the Government discount like I can for XP. Hopefully by that time a lot of the kinks will have been worked out.
I dual-boot Windows on my Mac and I have absolutely no desire to upgrade to Vista in any shape, way or form. There's really just nothing there to captivate me and XP is a workhorse for things I need it to do, no more and no less.
Anyway, by the time support for XP wanes, it'll be time for a new computer. You have to love the long-term sustainability of Windows platforms as disgruntled users refuse to pay the piper. Meanwhile, I'll be waiting in line for Leopard. Hmmm.
I'm actually rather pissed at nvidia about now, given that I have their dx10 hardware and they haven't released a driver for it :roll: , even more comical is that dx10 was really all I wanted from vista.
Considering that the only people who have Vista right now are either a) programmers that got it through MSDN, b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded), or c) filthy, filthy pirates, I don't think that's a huge loss. Wait until the 30th.
Now, if Creative doesn't have drivers for my Audigy 2 NX by the 30th, then I'll be pissed.
I'm actually rather pissed at nvidia about now, given that I have their dx10 hardware and they haven't released a driver for it :roll: , even more comical is that dx10 was really all I wanted from vista.
Considering that the only people who have Vista right now are either a) programmers that got it through MSDN, b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded), or c) filthy, filthy pirates, I don't think that's a huge loss. Wait until the 30th.
Now, if Creative doesn't have drivers for my Audigy 2 NX by the 30th, then I'll be pissed.
I'm actually rather pissed at nvidia about now, given that I have their dx10 hardware and they haven't released a driver for it :roll: , even more comical is that dx10 was really all I wanted from vista.
Considering that the only people who have Vista right now are either a) programmers that got it through MSDN, b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded), or c) filthy, filthy pirates, I don't think that's a huge loss. Wait until the 30th.
Now, if Creative doesn't have drivers for my Audigy 2 NX by the 30th, then I'll be pissed.
Lies, I still have my legal beta copies.
If something doesn't work during a beta, it's expected.
I'm actually rather pissed at nvidia about now, given that I have their dx10 hardware and they haven't released a driver for it :roll: , even more comical is that dx10 was really all I wanted from vista.
Considering that the only people who have Vista right now are either a) programmers that got it through MSDN, b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded), or c) filthy, filthy pirates, I don't think that's a huge loss. Wait until the 30th.
Now, if Creative doesn't have drivers for my Audigy 2 NX by the 30th, then I'll be pissed.
Lies, I still have my legal beta copies.
If something doesn't work during a beta, it's expected.
I meant to only quote the pirated part and whatnot.
Really now, I have Vista Pro available to me now, but I really need a version that is media center capable, so is there a possibility that theylll have another release of the other kinds of vista later on? That would be awesome, and would make sense because they have like every version of XP on my MSDNAA
When you say "Vista Pro", do you mean XP Pro? There is no "Vista Pro" edition, and Vista Home Premium (and Ultimate) have media center.
@superchewie: My brother isn't an EECS student and I'm not in college yet so I guess I'm fresh out of luck, unless my brother has a friend in EECS .
I just took a look at the student store website, and all of the Vista packs are the same as retail except for the Home Premium Upgrade. That's supposed to be $160 at retail, and $90 at the student store.
Really now, I have Vista Pro available to me now, but I really need a version that is media center capable, so is there a possibility that theylll have another release of the other kinds of vista later on? That would be awesome, and would make sense because they have like every version of XP on my MSDNAA
When you say "Vista Pro", do you mean XP Pro? There is no "Vista Pro" edition, and Vista Home Premium (and Ultimate) have media center.
@superchewie: My brother isn't an EECS student and I'm not in college yet so I guess I'm fresh out of luck, unless my brother has a friend in EECS .
I just took a look at the student store website, and all of the Vista packs are the same as retail except for the Home Premium Upgrade. That's supposed to be $160 at retail, and $90 at the student store.
As someone using Vista, I really don't think it's worth $90. That's just my opinion.
Really now, I have Vista Pro available to me now, but I really need a version that is media center capable, so is there a possibility that theylll have another release of the other kinds of vista later on? That would be awesome, and would make sense because they have like every version of XP on my MSDNAA
When you say "Vista Pro", do you mean XP Pro? There is no "Vista Pro" edition, and Vista Home Premium (and Ultimate) have media center.
@superchewie: My brother isn't an EECS student and I'm not in college yet so I guess I'm fresh out of luck, unless my brother has a friend in EECS .
I just took a look at the student store website, and all of the Vista packs are the same as retail except for the Home Premium Upgrade. That's supposed to be $160 at retail, and $90 at the student store.
As someone using Vista, I really don't think it's worth $90. That's just my opinion.
Having used it in Beta 2, I find it worth the $240 for the retail version of Home Premium (but not $400 or whatever for Ultimate). I guess the best thing to do is to try Vista for oneself before deciding. Microsoft is actually offering a free Vista test drive here. I haven't tried it myself, but Ars Technica has a brief article on it.
I plan to buy Vista as soon as I can. Problem is, I can't get it at full price. I have to hope my brother can get it cheaper through college.
Do those discounts usually only come to students majoring in a tech field or can any student get it (assuming the college offers it)?
I'm a business major and I can get XP Pro for 10 bucks
*shrug*
I honestly don't know.
I need to go ask my college about this shit. I didn't know you could get it for that cheap!
Many colleges give them out for free, i.e mine is part of the MSDNA alliance so we get ms office, sql server, xp, server 2k3 etc for free, and they say they'll have vista ultimate up for us by mid february
Which college do you go to? Is it UC Berkeley, by any chance?
I know Berkeley's EECS students have access to the MSDNAA here. I don't know about other student discounts, but most of the software I've seen at the student store seems pretty pricey.
It's good to hear that Vista is supposed to be on MSDNAA soon.[/url]
I go to Georgia Tech and this Monday morning it went up on MSDNAA to download for free. I know people who have already installed it, it works fine. It's available to all students, too, which is nice, since previously only CS and ECE could get the free copies of XP. I probably won't install it, though, since my 80gb hard drive on my MBPro is already pushing it with a 15gb partition for XP.
edit: It's vista business, though, not vista ultimate.
I love how the guy completely ignores the fact that "premium content" simply won't play on XP - afaik one of the major, major reasons the graphics and audio systems went through an overhaul was to support the protected content path or whatever that Hollywood requested.
Ironically enough, Premium content will play on XP, just not protected premium content. There are already 1080p HD-DVD rips appearing on torrent sites, but the tools to do the ripping haven't yet been made available.
It may be the case that the tools won't be made available, since that runs the risk of them being disabled through key revocation. Which would be especially funny, because it would be impossible for the average person to make "fair-use" rips, but it would be possible for them to simply download it. Way to encourage mass piracy.
Download caps make it impossible or impractical, at least in Australia, to acquire unprotected premium content in the manner you describe. Still, it's not like the same nefariously-sourced unprotected premium content won't be able to play on Vista, which would seem to reinforce my earlier statement.
b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded)
Volume Licensing (Open Business, Open Value) are available to businesses purchasing five or more licenses. Five.
Did these guys get the advance RTM release back in November? I was under the impression that that only went out to giant-sized corporations. Maybe I was wrong.
t ihd: I didn't realise that by "premium content" you meant protected content. There are a surprising number of people who seem to think that XP is innately incapable of playing HD video, rather than it being an artificial restriction.
t ihd: I didn't realise that by "premium content" you meant protected content. There are a surprising number of people who seem to think that XP is innately incapable of playing HD video, rather than it being an artificial restriction.
My bad.
I'm surprised that there are people like that which you describe, myself; it seems that everyone I run into seems to think that Vista is crippled compared to XP as far as digital media is concerned.
So what if Vista can't play protected content at full res unless certain conditions are met? XP can't play protected content at all.
b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded)
Volume Licensing (Open Business, Open Value) are available to businesses purchasing five or more licenses. Five.
Did these guys get the advance RTM release back in November? I was under the impression that that only went out to giant-sized corporations. Maybe I was wrong.
Yeah, Vista SKUs showed up on all VL price lists (Open, Select, and Enterprise) on November 1st. It was available as a download within a few weeks, and media earlier this month.
I talk to small and medium businesses who have been running it for months on a regular basis. The sense of shock and "I can't go back" is somewhat unexpected. Other than lack of driver support, RTM is more stable and efficient than anyone expected.
Okay, so I'm giving up on it, at least for the next couple of months while these driver issues get sorted out (if they do at all). My sound card, Trio Linker+, and printer don't work. Yeah, I know, it's Creative, EMS, and HP (respectively) fault, but that doesn't change the fact that half my hardware doesn't fucking work. Oh, and for my graphics card, I have a choice between drivers without the ATi Control Center (and therefore no anti-aliasing) or drivers that don't support the native resolution of my panel, 1280x800. Fun fun.
I'm giving Creative until the 30th to get drivers out for my Audigy 2 NX before I sell it and never buy a Creative product again.
It's too bad; that Games Explorer thing is pretty fucking cool.
Seems like it. There's a high chance that many stores received their copies of Vista well before the release date because Vista was finished back in November (maybe December?), giving MS plenty of time to produce and ship it before the January 30th. So a lot of stores may also break the street date.
Seems like newegg can do it and get it to me before the 30th, yes?
Though not specifically called out, those are OEM kits which have been shipping for a bit. Thus the "single pack" bit; OEM media comes in either single or three-packs. Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
Plenty of places are still happy to sell OEM versions with a HDD or video card (or sometimes even a CD-ROM drive). I'm not sure if they are meant to, but it seems to be pretty common.
And our wholesalers don't even care. Most will sell OEM versions of software without any hardware purchase (since they aren't selling to end-users anyway).
Seems like newegg can do it and get it to me before the 30th, yes?
Though not specifically called out, those are OEM kits which have been shipping for a bit. Thus the "single pack" bit; OEM media comes in either single or three-packs. Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
OEM licenses used to have a "must be sold with hardware" clause, so retailers would sell the license with the cheapest hardware possible, like a screw.
Currently the System Builder License Agreement requires that an OEM (which stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer) sell it preinstalled on a complete, new, system once they've accepted the License Agreement. The agreement is accepted by opening the one or three-pack of license/media kits.
Unopened kits may be sold between "system builders" freely.
This is how companies like Newegg sell these licenses; it's a transfer of unopened OEM packs (thus that "single pack" language) between two system builders. The moment you open that, you're agreeing that you will only transfer the license on the same machine it was installed on and that you're 100% responsible for your own support.
So, for hobbyists, the only real restriction is that, once installed, that license can't be moved to another machine (or, if you do, it's gonna give you all sorts of hassles). In a business situation, there's actual penalties for having non-compliant licenses (like OEM licenses without Certificates of Authenticity... that sticker).
This is one of the three main sales channels MS uses; OEM (non-perpetual, no support, preinstalled licenses); Retail or FPP (full-packaged product, the most expensive, freely transferable); and Volume Licensing (licenses sold in bulk with no unique media or product keys, uses unlicensed volume media).
Seems like newegg can do it and get it to me before the 30th, yes?
Though not specifically called out, those are OEM kits which have been shipping for a bit. Thus the "single pack" bit; OEM media comes in either single or three-packs. Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
Please run that by me one more time.
So when you replace your mobo and the message asking you to call to re-validate comes up they will just tell you to go to hell?
Seems like newegg can do it and get it to me before the 30th, yes?
Though not specifically called out, those are OEM kits which have been shipping for a bit. Thus the "single pack" bit; OEM media comes in either single or three-packs. Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
Please run that by me one more time.
So when you replace your mobo and the message asking you to call to re-validate comes up they will just tell you to go to hell?
Will they instantly give you a key or will it take some arguing? And are you sure they will even give you a new key? If so, then this is a huge discount over the retail price and you can move it around as much as you want. It just seems like MS wouldn't let you cheat them like that.
Will they instantly give you a key or will it take some arguing? And are you sure they will even give you a new key? If so, then this is a huge discount over the retail price and you can move it around as much as you want. It just seems like MS wouldn't let you cheat them like that.
Technically the license means that you must install it on a new computer only. I don't believe the option exists for you to keep your WinXP settings, etc, although to be honest, doing that kind of upgrade install always results in a horribly buggy system anyway.
And yes. You don't need to even call in unless a bunch of shit gets replaced at the same time. I've been using an OEM copy of XP Home for some time now. This is the kind of copy that Dell, etc. puts on the computers.
It's not that you're cheating them, it's that this is how Microsoft gets its software to smaller system builders.
Daedalus on
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
edited January 2007
I wonder if there will be a 30 day 'test' version of Vista.
I'm tempted to switch over, but I don't want to shell out x amount of dollars to find that it's somehow worse than XP.
I wonder if there will be a 30 day 'test' version of Vista.
I'm tempted to switch over, but I don't want to shell out x amount of dollars to find that it's somehow worse than XP.
Hrm.
You have thirty days from installation to activate your copy, if that's what you mean. I always assumed this was there for you to give it a free try.
They have some retarded "test drive vista" site that lets you play with the UI through a web app, but really, that has little to do with how Vista will actually react to your system.
Personally, having used it, I wouldn't shell out money for it until it becomes a requirement for games. But that's just me.
I'm trying to install Vista on an IDE drive with a 20 gig partition availabe. The installation app keeps telling me that Windows can't find a volume that fits it's criteria.
Anybody know what the hell is going on?
victor_c26 on
It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
Well, trying to install Vista was a complete waste of my time. Never got to the desktop. And it crashed my IDE drive at the "Preparing to run Windows for the first time" screen.
All I got out of it was an annoying boot loader that left "Windows Setup" as the default partition selector on my XP Drive with only 2 seconds to avoid loading.
I feel sorry for people that actually paid for this.
victor_c26 on
It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
I just found out that computer science students can already get Vista for free. So take advantage of that fact if you are a poor, struggling college student right now.
Do they have sound cards and tv tuners working under Vista yet?
I'm still pissed that one license won't work for both your laptop and desktop. MS has always allowed you to use one copy of Windows on both. If I could still do that I'd buy Vista launch day. As it stands though, fuck that. I can't afford two copies of Vista. So MS gets nothing from me.
Anyway to get the damn bootloader on my XP hard drive the way it was before?
victor_c26 on
It's been so long since I've posted here, I've removed my signature since most of what I had here were broken links. Shows over, you can carry on to the next post.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
edited January 2007
Is there any reason I should buy a full version of Vista if I have XP already? "Upgrades" weird me out for some reason. Can I only install the Upgrade if there's a working copy of XP on my computer? So if I wipe it, I'll have to install XP and THEN install Vista?
Also, which version of Vista should I buy as a gamer?
Posts
HDCP, DRM, etc: Support for these things is orthogonal to the operating system. It doesn't do anything less because it supports those things. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the companies who put stuff out with DRM on it.
muh.
Anyway, by the time support for XP wanes, it'll be time for a new computer. You have to love the long-term sustainability of Windows platforms as disgruntled users refuse to pay the piper. Meanwhile, I'll be waiting in line for Leopard. Hmmm.
Considering that the only people who have Vista right now are either a) programmers that got it through MSDN, b) thousand+ seat businesses that got the RTM release (and have 99% of their computers running Intel Indegraded), or c) filthy, filthy pirates, I don't think that's a huge loss. Wait until the 30th.
Now, if Creative doesn't have drivers for my Audigy 2 NX by the 30th, then I'll be pissed.
If something doesn't work during a beta, it's expected.
I just took a look at the student store website, and all of the Vista packs are the same as retail except for the Home Premium Upgrade. That's supposed to be $160 at retail, and $90 at the student store.
As someone using Vista, I really don't think it's worth $90. That's just my opinion.
Volume Licensing (Open Business, Open Value) are available to businesses purchasing five or more licenses. Five.
I go to Georgia Tech and this Monday morning it went up on MSDNAA to download for free. I know people who have already installed it, it works fine. It's available to all students, too, which is nice, since previously only CS and ECE could get the free copies of XP. I probably won't install it, though, since my 80gb hard drive on my MBPro is already pushing it with a 15gb partition for XP.
edit: It's vista business, though, not vista ultimate.
Download caps make it impossible or impractical, at least in Australia, to acquire unprotected premium content in the manner you describe. Still, it's not like the same nefariously-sourced unprotected premium content won't be able to play on Vista, which would seem to reinforce my earlier statement.
Yes, and sadly no.
Sega handles localisation of Bioware titles.
Did these guys get the advance RTM release back in November? I was under the impression that that only went out to giant-sized corporations. Maybe I was wrong.
My bad.
I'm surprised that there are people like that which you describe, myself; it seems that everyone I run into seems to think that Vista is crippled compared to XP as far as digital media is concerned.
So what if Vista can't play protected content at full res unless certain conditions are met? XP can't play protected content at all.
Yeah, Vista SKUs showed up on all VL price lists (Open, Select, and Enterprise) on November 1st. It was available as a download within a few weeks, and media earlier this month.
I talk to small and medium businesses who have been running it for months on a regular basis. The sense of shock and "I can't go back" is somewhat unexpected. Other than lack of driver support, RTM is more stable and efficient than anyone expected.
I'm giving Creative until the 30th to get drivers out for my Audigy 2 NX before I sell it and never buy a Creative product again.
It's too bad; that Games Explorer thing is pretty fucking cool.
http://promotions.newegg.com/msvista/Vista_Products.html
Seems like newegg can do it and get it to me before the 30th, yes?
(At launch, that is.)
Though not specifically called out, those are OEM kits which have been shipping for a bit. Thus the "single pack" bit; OEM media comes in either single or three-packs. Nice and cheap (and the old "sell with a screw" bit isn't in anymore) but they can't be moved to different hardware after installation.
Plenty of places are still happy to sell OEM versions with a HDD or video card (or sometimes even a CD-ROM drive). I'm not sure if they are meant to, but it seems to be pretty common.
And our wholesalers don't even care. Most will sell OEM versions of software without any hardware purchase (since they aren't selling to end-users anyway).
Please run that by me one more time.
Currently the System Builder License Agreement requires that an OEM (which stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer) sell it preinstalled on a complete, new, system once they've accepted the License Agreement. The agreement is accepted by opening the one or three-pack of license/media kits.
Unopened kits may be sold between "system builders" freely.
This is how companies like Newegg sell these licenses; it's a transfer of unopened OEM packs (thus that "single pack" language) between two system builders. The moment you open that, you're agreeing that you will only transfer the license on the same machine it was installed on and that you're 100% responsible for your own support.
So, for hobbyists, the only real restriction is that, once installed, that license can't be moved to another machine (or, if you do, it's gonna give you all sorts of hassles). In a business situation, there's actual penalties for having non-compliant licenses (like OEM licenses without Certificates of Authenticity... that sticker).
This is one of the three main sales channels MS uses; OEM (non-perpetual, no support, preinstalled licenses); Retail or FPP (full-packaged product, the most expensive, freely transferable); and Volume Licensing (licenses sold in bulk with no unique media or product keys, uses unlicensed volume media).
Technically the license means that you must install it on a new computer only. I don't believe the option exists for you to keep your WinXP settings, etc, although to be honest, doing that kind of upgrade install always results in a horribly buggy system anyway.
And yes. You don't need to even call in unless a bunch of shit gets replaced at the same time. I've been using an OEM copy of XP Home for some time now. This is the kind of copy that Dell, etc. puts on the computers.
It's not that you're cheating them, it's that this is how Microsoft gets its software to smaller system builders.
I'm tempted to switch over, but I don't want to shell out x amount of dollars to find that it's somehow worse than XP.
Hrm.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
You have thirty days from installation to activate your copy, if that's what you mean. I always assumed this was there for you to give it a free try.
They have some retarded "test drive vista" site that lets you play with the UI through a web app, but really, that has little to do with how Vista will actually react to your system.
Personally, having used it, I wouldn't shell out money for it until it becomes a requirement for games. But that's just me.
Anybody know what the hell is going on?
All I got out of it was an annoying boot loader that left "Windows Setup" as the default partition selector on my XP Drive with only 2 seconds to avoid loading.
I feel sorry for people that actually paid for this.
Do they have sound cards and tv tuners working under Vista yet?
A few hitches:
You can't upgrade from XP Pro to home premium, which is really fucking lame. You have to do a clean install, which just kinda sucks a lot.
I had to find some leaked 100.30 Forceware drivers to get my G80 up and running.
This shit is mind-boggling.
Also, which version of Vista should I buy as a gamer?