So, Dac, we have one problem with two solutions.
Either you have people figure out where they're going, so when they do eventually end up wiping in dungeons they're not completely crippled and worthless, and can run back.
Or you have it like it is now where when you wipe, and no one but you can figure out how to get back, and the group ends up disbanding.
Pick one.
Or
Or
And this is crazy
Just crazy but bear with me
You could tell them how to get to the dungeon entrance.
Your "two solutions" assume the ideal result in the case of the change and ignores the potential ramifications it would lead to (far, far fewer people actually seeing the content), and your second option (the way things are now) assumes the absolute worst possible result while ignoring actions you can personally take to mitigate it.
You seem to think it's a dumb idea to have people figure out where the dungeon is, so I gather you're quite alright with wiping and having groups disband because only one person can run back - and that person can't rez.
False conclusion. Just because I like a current system doesn't mean I can't acknowledge its shortcomings.
However, I think the thing Blizzard is doing to address it will cause more harm than good.
Both of the alternatives I posted above would solve this issue without lowering the pool of potential players for LFD in those low level instances.
I guess with the turn that Blizz has taken with the game, it's absurd to make a character explore new lands to go to a dungeon in that area.
I mean, we've already gotten to the point where the game hands you purples for free and money rains down from the sky, so of course players, in a situation where they need to learn their character, explore the world, or do something that isn't a faceroll, would leave a group because they'd actually have to play the game.
Challenge is not an issue apparently, and any content that would stop the gravy train of free gear, money, and items should be taken out. God forbid the characters actually see the vast amount of content that they pay for.
Really, the way things are going, Blizz might as well make a single room that you log in at, with 3 portals. One takes you to a room where you can try on all gear, and you can pick what gear you want. The second portal goes to a room that just have chests in it that have instant respawn and are full of money, gems, pets and mounts, and items. The third portal can be a room where people can /flex at each other and show off their gearscore.
People have gotten too complacent, and that's why we have groups that leave as soon as there's any sign of trouble where they won't instantly get their gear, nobody can play their class worth a damn, and why 5500 gearscore players do 1500 dps.
Nobody actually plays the game any more.
(IBTW, I'm a fan of having to go to the dungeon before you can queue for it.)
slurpeepoop on
0
Options
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
So, two days left (or is it one day), four characters a day, zero fucking pets. Not a one. I really wish they'd knock off this RNG for yearly events shit.
The only events where a RNG drop make sense are ones with mounts, like the Headless Horseman's or the Valentine's rocket.
Everything else? No, give me the thing on the first try or let me buy it with whatever bullshit holiday currency you have.
Exactly. Though it would be nice if the mounts had something resembling a reasonable drop rate. During the valentines event, no one on my server looted the rocket at all. Like, ever. That's an eight-course meal of stupid right there.
I've been doing the holiday boss every day with 3 characters. I finally added a 4th one to the mix. Still no pet or scythe on any of them. I did get the Flamekeeper title on another character this year so at least I have that. I would have thought I'd see one of the items from the bag by now though.
I love days where I see multiple pages added to the wow chat, only to find almost all of it is inane bitching about stupid shit like this, or lore.
Sigh.
Hahaha, I was thinking that as I got about three posts above.
The system as it is now is imperfect. Bandaging will not make it perfect. If Blizzard's going to make it so you have to visit the entrance, I hope they do a good enough job of making the new entrances obvious. Until then, I wait, or I find out from people in the beta if they did that.
I guess with the turn that Blizz has taken with the game, it's absurd to make a character explore new lands to go to a dungeon in that area.
I mean, we've already gotten to the point where the game hands you purples for free and money rains down from the sky, so of course players, in a situation where they need to learn their character, explore the world, or do something that isn't a faceroll, would leave a group because they'd actually have to play the game.
Challenge is not an issue apparently, and any content that would stop the gravy train of free gear, money, and items should be taken out. God forbid the characters actually see the vast amount of content that they pay for.
Really, the way things are going, Blizz might as well make a single room that you log in at, with 3 portals. One takes you to a room where you can try on all gear, and you can pick what gear you want. The second portal goes to a room that just have chests in it that have instant respawn and are full of money, gems, pets and mounts, and items. The third portal can be a room where people can /flex at each other and show off their gearscore.
People have gotten too complacent, and that's why we have groups that leave as soon as there's any sign of trouble where they won't instantly get their gear, nobody can play their class worth a damn, and why 5500 gearscore players do 1500 dps.
Nobody actually plays the game any more.
(IBTW, I'm a fan of having to go to the dungeon before you can queue for it.)
Welcome to every MMO ever made.
jkylefulton on
0
Options
BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
I really don't think it's going to be a problem in Cataclysm, if they continue to create zones and questlines the way they've done for TBC and WotLK.
If nothing else, making people discover the dungeons might cut down on the annoyance of some retard dying and ghosting and being like "herp derp I don't know how to get back to slave pens." Young whippersnappers.
I doubt it. Or not to the degree everybody is hoping.
Let's say as horde that I wanna run Deadmines. Ok, I run all the way out there, traverse that god awful tunnel system and find the instance. Hooray, now I can queue for it! However, I guarantee you that just because I figured out the right path through once, I'm sure as hell not going to remember it if I happen to die. I'm still back at square one, lost as fuck.
This is just a bandaid at best over the real problem: The fact that the path to the dungeons, combined with the bare bones corpse locater, combine to confuse the fuck out of where people should go. I'd rather either smarter graveyard placement to minimize getting lost, or a pathing system to prevent getting lost. And the stupid thing is, they've done the first option many times,
Good: Utgarde. The graveyard is right outside, if you just follow the corpse arrow, you run smack dab into the instance portal.
Bad: Deadmines: As mentioned above, hope you memorized the maze, or you're fucked
Good: Azjol-Nerub: Follow the arrow, and you land right into the hole where the portals are.
Bad: ICC: Follow the arrow, and you run smack dab into the side of the citadel. This is why people get lost, they don't know which of the many branching paths is the real entrance to the place.
I'd much rather have a system that's designed so that you don't get lost and confused, over one that's basically dependent on people having a perfect memory on how to reach an instance portal in the middle of a sprawling mass of caves.
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
If there is not a guy in armor and what appears to be a malfunctioning goblin mechanical air travel device in there, Blizzard will get a strongly worded letter. The remains of such a person is acceptable.
Tomanta on
0
Options
Liquid GhostDO YOU HEAR THE VOICES, TOO?!Registered Userregular
There's bones inside as well as a ramp leading up around the wall, so I figure you might be able to scramble down through the vagina dentata and explore the wowlacc's cervix.
The scale on that abomination is fucking ridiculous, though. I'm just eyeballing it, but this is at the bottom of a pit that would probably knock half of your health off if not outright kill you if you jumped down. Its tentacles shoot straight up from the ground and tower over the trees sitting along the edges of the crater. Flying over in a bad ass airship and disabling the tentacles with explosives or something before parachuting down into the center of the Twilight Butthole would be a pretty epic way of starting an instance or a long quest event ala Battle for the Undercity.
There's bones inside as well as a ramp leading up around the wall, so I figure you might be able to scramble down through the vagina dentata and explore the wowlacc's cervix.
The scale on that abomination is fucking ridiculous, though. I'm just eyeballing it, but this is at the bottom of a pit that would probably knock half of your health off if not outright kill you if you jumped down. Its tentacles shoot straight up from the ground and tower over the trees sitting along the edges of the crater. Flying over in a bad ass airship and disabling the tentacles with explosives or something before parachuting down into the center of the Twilight Butthole would be a pretty epic way of starting an instance or a long quest event ala Battle for the Undercity.
It looks like there's a pool of water in the middle to land in.
For one, it'll basically mean no Deadmines/Stockades for Horde players ever, and second will likely mean that I'm unlikely to ever mess with going to many of the post level 40 dungeons (I'm unlikely to bother to go to the appropriate zones just to tag an entrance when I can just level more efficiently where I am already).
For one, it'll basically mean no Deadmines/Stockades for Horde players ever, and second will likely mean that I'm unlikely to ever mess with going to many of the post level 40 dungeons (I'm unlikely to bother to go to the appropriate zones just to tag an entrance when I can just level more efficiently where I am already).
Deadmines, Stockades, Wailing Caverns and RFC have already been called out as exemptions.
For one, it'll basically mean no Deadmines/Stockades for Horde players ever, and second will likely mean that I'm unlikely to ever mess with going to many of the post level 40 dungeons (I'm unlikely to bother to go to the appropriate zones just to tag an entrance when I can just level more efficiently where I am already).
Deadmines, Stockades, Wailing Caverns and RFC have already been called out as exemptions.
They should just make it so that you only have to discover the entrances of current expansion instances and old crap would be exempt.
reVerse on
0
Options
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Feral is the one druid tree I'm familiar with and I liked what I saw in the beta previews of their tree. I'll give balance and resto a good looking-over later.
Paladins and locks are the two classes I investigated, talent wise, that are lacking in any Cata-style changes. Warriors, rogues, and mages are rockin' that shit pretty hard though. Shaman have some going on but a lot of it is subtle compared to the mage fuckery going on.
I didn't really investigate hunters because I don't understand the proper context for a lot of things there. Most of what I saw was focus based stuff in the beast mastery line (didn't look at the other two trees). But the BM spec has a proper 11 point talent now!
Didn't look at priests or death knights at all but I think I might now.
Posts
Or
Or
And this is crazy
Just crazy but bear with me
You could tell them how to get to the dungeon entrance.
Your "two solutions" assume the ideal result in the case of the change and ignores the potential ramifications it would lead to (far, far fewer people actually seeing the content), and your second option (the way things are now) assumes the absolute worst possible result while ignoring actions you can personally take to mitigate it.
False conclusion. Just because I like a current system doesn't mean I can't acknowledge its shortcomings.
However, I think the thing Blizzard is doing to address it will cause more harm than good.
Both of the alternatives I posted above would solve this issue without lowering the pool of potential players for LFD in those low level instances.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
edit: or every instance could just have a graveyard ten yards from the entrance
faux edit: although this didn't solve the SSC problem, so who fucking knows
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Bah to that I say! Inside to save a loading screen.
LoL: failboattootoot
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Good point!
LoL: failboattootoot
I mean, we've already gotten to the point where the game hands you purples for free and money rains down from the sky, so of course players, in a situation where they need to learn their character, explore the world, or do something that isn't a faceroll, would leave a group because they'd actually have to play the game.
Challenge is not an issue apparently, and any content that would stop the gravy train of free gear, money, and items should be taken out. God forbid the characters actually see the vast amount of content that they pay for.
Really, the way things are going, Blizz might as well make a single room that you log in at, with 3 portals. One takes you to a room where you can try on all gear, and you can pick what gear you want. The second portal goes to a room that just have chests in it that have instant respawn and are full of money, gems, pets and mounts, and items. The third portal can be a room where people can /flex at each other and show off their gearscore.
People have gotten too complacent, and that's why we have groups that leave as soon as there's any sign of trouble where they won't instantly get their gear, nobody can play their class worth a damn, and why 5500 gearscore players do 1500 dps.
Nobody actually plays the game any more.
(IBTW, I'm a fan of having to go to the dungeon before you can queue for it.)
Sigh.
Hahaha, I was thinking that as I got about three posts above.
The system as it is now is imperfect. Bandaging will not make it perfect. If Blizzard's going to make it so you have to visit the entrance, I hope they do a good enough job of making the new entrances obvious. Until then, I wait, or I find out from people in the beta if they did that.
Welcome to every MMO ever made.
Battletag: Kain#1658
I doubt it. Or not to the degree everybody is hoping.
Let's say as horde that I wanna run Deadmines. Ok, I run all the way out there, traverse that god awful tunnel system and find the instance. Hooray, now I can queue for it! However, I guarantee you that just because I figured out the right path through once, I'm sure as hell not going to remember it if I happen to die. I'm still back at square one, lost as fuck.
This is just a bandaid at best over the real problem: The fact that the path to the dungeons, combined with the bare bones corpse locater, combine to confuse the fuck out of where people should go. I'd rather either smarter graveyard placement to minimize getting lost, or a pathing system to prevent getting lost. And the stupid thing is, they've done the first option many times,
Good: Utgarde. The graveyard is right outside, if you just follow the corpse arrow, you run smack dab into the instance portal.
Bad: Deadmines: As mentioned above, hope you memorized the maze, or you're fucked
Good: Azjol-Nerub: Follow the arrow, and you land right into the hole where the portals are.
Bad: ICC: Follow the arrow, and you run smack dab into the side of the citadel. This is why people get lost, they don't know which of the many branching paths is the real entrance to the place.
I'd much rather have a system that's designed so that you don't get lost and confused, over one that's basically dependent on people having a perfect memory on how to reach an instance portal in the middle of a sprawling mass of caves.
This change is pretty fantastic.
PS4:MrZoompants
So, like, every day?
Sarlac Hungers..
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
There's bones inside as well as a ramp leading up around the wall, so I figure you might be able to scramble down through the vagina dentata and explore the wowlacc's cervix.
The scale on that abomination is fucking ridiculous, though. I'm just eyeballing it, but this is at the bottom of a pit that would probably knock half of your health off if not outright kill you if you jumped down. Its tentacles shoot straight up from the ground and tower over the trees sitting along the edges of the crater. Flying over in a bad ass airship and disabling the tentacles with explosives or something before parachuting down into the center of the Twilight Butthole would be a pretty epic way of starting an instance or a long quest event ala Battle for the Undercity.
For one, it'll basically mean no Deadmines/Stockades for Horde players ever, and second will likely mean that I'm unlikely to ever mess with going to many of the post level 40 dungeons (I'm unlikely to bother to go to the appropriate zones just to tag an entrance when I can just level more efficiently where I am already).
Deadmines, Stockades, Wailing Caverns and RFC have already been called out as exemptions.
Not that I have problems with them necessarily, but I think you catch my drift. It shall all work out in the end!
Probably. Maybe. Hopefully. PLEASE.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
remember when the speed kill achievement for Yogg on the PTR was 16 minutes?
fuckin' numbers man
all changing and shit
Resto druid are overpowered!
*
Steam Profile
They should just make it so that you only have to discover the entrances of current expansion instances and old crap would be exempt.
Destro Locks have a similar designer talent. Just there as a FYI for testers.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Paladins and locks are the two classes I investigated, talent wise, that are lacking in any Cata-style changes. Warriors, rogues, and mages are rockin' that shit pretty hard though. Shaman have some going on but a lot of it is subtle compared to the mage fuckery going on.
I didn't really investigate hunters because I don't understand the proper context for a lot of things there. Most of what I saw was focus based stuff in the beast mastery line (didn't look at the other two trees). But the BM spec has a proper 11 point talent now!
Didn't look at priests or death knights at all but I think I might now.