I'm in the unique position of playing both SOTN and Super Metroid for the first time ever, just now. Obviously this is a strange perspective, it's 2010.
My preference says I like SOTN more, for alot of little reasons. It's not really fair though considering the ages of each.
Now before you get too defensive on Metroid's behalf, I like it and absolutely agree it's a classic. SOTN probably wouldn't be what it is without it. I just like the setting, rpg mechanics and Dracula more. I like having him there, a Bowser type presence for old school feel.
We're going to start talking about some pretty petty semantics if we keep going. I'd define Super Metroid as 'metroidvania', but I guess I'm loose with the interpretation or something.
Either way, there should be more games with layouts like this. I'm happy that Batman was good (It's like a metroidvania too!)
Craziness.
Now that I'm on the topic, I'll bitch about what Hideo Kojima is doing with the new CV. It doesn't seem to have any of these cool elements that set Castlevania apart from other games and instead looks like a linear action game of middling quality. Batman and Metroid Prime proved you could pull off that formula in 3D without losing much.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
But the original Castlevania games were linear action games (though with maybe some branching paths depending on the game). Notable exception of Simon's Quest, which if you squint hard enough, kinda resembles modern Castlevania post-SOTN. But everyone thought it was super weird and it went back to old-school platforming for the next few installments.
I'm in the unique position of playing both SOTN and Super Metroid for the first time ever, just now. Obviously this is a strange perspective, it's 2010.
My preference says I like SOTN more, for alot of little reasons. It's not really fair though considering the ages of each.
Now before you get too defensive on Metroid's behalf, I like it and absolutely agree it's a classic. SOTN probably wouldn't be what it is without it. I just like the setting, rpg mechanics and Dracula more. I like having him there, a Bowser type presence for old school feel.
It's understandable, SotN is a lot more accessible and has held up a lot better than Super Metroid. SotN is also the best of it's kind (that is, open-ended Castlevania) whereas I think Zero Mission is the best 2D Metroid.
The only thing I could really bitch about is that it became pretty much impossible / useless to browse for new add-ons
Music games ruined everything in that regard.
I mentioned that in another thread a while back. My number one complaint about how xbox live marketplace is set up. They really need to have a seperate section for music add ons. I hate having all of 12 or so hours to notice a new add on before 500 new Lips songs bump it off the new release list.
But is it really dlc? Seems more like an arcade title that just uses the same engine.
It's still a great idea that makes perfect sense. The engine and all the resources are already just sitting right there. Why not throw something together.
In fact, it would be nice if more games released demos that weren't just part of the first level or tutorial. Like the original Starcraft demo that was actually a prequel campaign for the main game.
But is it really dlc? Seems more like an arcade title that just uses the same engine.
While the game is classified as an Arcade title, it definitely feels more like DLC. There just isn't enough there to make it stand on it's own apart from DR2. Like most post-release DLC, it expands on the narrative without adding anything vital.
And just a disclaimer if anyone thinks I'm being negative, or shitting on Case Zero, I bought it, beat it, and enjoyed the time I spent with it and plan on playing the full game after it comes out.
MOH:Airborne. As medicocre as some people thought the game was, I really loved that aspect of it. You could lean out as slowly or quickly and as much as you want with the stick, not just a preset distance- from cover to ready to shoot.
I just started the post-game content in Disgaea 3, and god damn. The grinding required to get anywhere is absurd. I like the game and all, but why does it feel the need to force you to spend hours grinding to do anything? To stand a chance against enemies you must grind; to unlock classes and their permutations, you must grind; to afford anything decent you must grind.
For example, if I want to use a Magic Knight I have to get the mage and fighter class to 35, then pass a proposition. To even attempt to pass a proposition, I must have the mana, gained from killing enemies, to choose it. Then I have to pray that the game doesn't decide it hates mewith representatives that refuse to pass anything, but are also a good hundred levels over my head so forcing it is impossible. After all of that, I would need to get the Magic Knight up to level 30 before I can use it's second form, and then 80 for it's third and so on. And since the higher forms are better and (as far as I can tell) get access to more skills, I pretty much have to. It's alleviated somewhat by the fact that I can capture enemy units, but considering they're worse, will require me to grind their skills back up (and repurchase them with mana, naturally) and I can't capture anything that I can't make, it's not not that much of a help. Oh, you also can't capture anything that's over your protagonist's level, so I can't just go into a high level area, capture some absurdly over-leveled monster, leave and use it to power level.
I mean, I really do like the game but for fuck's sake isn't there a quicker way of going about this?
There are shortcuts, but you should have known what you were in for when you got the game. It's not like they've tried to hide the grind, or that it's the first game in the series.
You didn't check up on either of the other games before you got it? How did you hear about it? It's not like there was a really big marketing campaign.
If you didn't know, well. I guess that would be a bummer. But it's the third game in a series known for massive, unending grinds, by a studio known for making games that are massive, unending grinds.
I read a review for the first one years ago, if that counts. At most I had the vague idea it was something akin to Final Fantasy Tactics. Its nice to try something a little different from time to time, and I bought it on an impulse. The grinding wasn't that bad during the main story (except, of course, for things like the Magic Knight because the enemies skip right on past it and on to Dark Knight which forces the grinding if I want to use it). No worse than I'd have done normally had I the option. It's just that post game content is a massive step up in grinding.
Well, now I know don't I? I'm going to try doing the post game stuff if I can, but I'm only at about level 200 of 9999 and something tells me that if I'm annoyed now, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
I feel like the Castlevania-style Metroidvania is a genre that still hasn't had it's masterpiece.
SotN is great, but it makes a lot of little mistakes that they fixed in the later games, which were worse in other, more important ways. It's just a shame that that style of game only really came into being just as 2D games went out of style. I think it would be perfect for an MMO and it boggles my mind that nobody has tried it yet. I spent dozens of hours grinding souls in Dawn of Sorrow!
Well, now I know don't I? I'm going to try doing the post game stuff if I can, but I'm only at about level 200 of 9999 and something tells me that if I'm annoyed now, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
I think with the Disgaea games there is point where it starts getting easier to attain high levels, but it does take some dedication to reach that point. But I wouldn't say it's too insane of a goal. Maybe just come back to it every now and then and spend a little time working on it. The key is to unlock the levels that are made specifically for grinding. It's been a long while since I've actually played 3 but I think on my save I can get a new character straight up to level 1000 on one map with an assist from my main character.
Well, now I know don't I? I'm going to try doing the post game stuff if I can, but I'm only at about level 200 of 9999 and something tells me that if I'm annoyed now, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
I think with the Disgaea games there is point where it starts getting easier to attain high levels, but it does take some dedication to reach that point. But I wouldn't say it's too insane of a goal. Maybe just come back to it every now and then and spend a little time working on it. The key is to unlock the levels that are made specifically for grinding. It's been a long while since I've actually played 3 but I think on my save I can get a new character straight up to level 1000 on one map with an assist from my main character.
There is a good grinding map open from before you even beat the game. Nine (usually) stationary enemies in a nice little box formation, sitting on +100% EXP tiles. I think my biggest problem so far is that I've tried to grind people equally, instead of just one or two with good area of effect attacks. Most characters just don't have attacks that work for the map. I figure I could just use the Stronger Enemies bill a few times, get comfortable and waste an hour getting to around ~500 and finding a stronger area to buff the rest of my units.
Well, now I know don't I? I'm going to try doing the post game stuff if I can, but I'm only at about level 200 of 9999 and something tells me that if I'm annoyed now, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
I think with the Disgaea games there is point where it starts getting easier to attain high levels, but it does take some dedication to reach that point. But I wouldn't say it's too insane of a goal. Maybe just come back to it every now and then and spend a little time working on it. The key is to unlock the levels that are made specifically for grinding. It's been a long while since I've actually played 3 but I think on my save I can get a new character straight up to level 1000 on one map with an assist from my main character.
There is a good grinding map open from before you even beat the game. Nine (usually) stationary enemies in a nice little box formation, sitting on +100% EXP tiles. I think my biggest problem so far is that I've tried to grind people equally, instead of just one or two with good area of effect attacks. Most characters just don't have attacks that work for the map. I figure I could just use the Stronger Enemies bill a few times, get comfortable and waste an hour getting to around ~500 and finding a stronger area to buff the rest of my units.
Of course how could I forget, the classic 3x3 grinding map, each game has had one so far Probably the most important thing to do for levelling is getting a ton of statisticians, the easiest way to do that is to obtain the puppy paw stick, I can't for the life of me remember where to get that though heh.
I feel like the Castlevania-style Metroidvania is a genre that still hasn't had it's masterpiece.
SotN is great, but it makes a lot of little mistakes that they fixed in the later games, which were worse in other, more important ways. It's just a shame that that style of game only really came into being just as 2D games went out of style. I think it would be perfect for an MMO and it boggles my mind that nobody has tried it yet. I spent dozens of hours grinding souls in Dawn of Sorrow!
There are mmos like that. They're just awful. Like every other mmo
Well, now I know don't I? I'm going to try doing the post game stuff if I can, but I'm only at about level 200 of 9999 and something tells me that if I'm annoyed now, maybe it just wasn't meant to be.
I think with the Disgaea games there is point where it starts getting easier to attain high levels, but it does take some dedication to reach that point. But I wouldn't say it's too insane of a goal. Maybe just come back to it every now and then and spend a little time working on it. The key is to unlock the levels that are made specifically for grinding. It's been a long while since I've actually played 3 but I think on my save I can get a new character straight up to level 1000 on one map with an assist from my main character.
There is a good grinding map open from before you even beat the game. Nine (usually) stationary enemies in a nice little box formation, sitting on +100% EXP tiles. I think my biggest problem so far is that I've tried to grind people equally, instead of just one or two with good area of effect attacks. Most characters just don't have attacks that work for the map. I figure I could just use the Stronger Enemies bill a few times, get comfortable and waste an hour getting to around ~500 and finding a stronger area to buff the rest of my units.
Of course how could I forget, the classic 3x3 grinding map, each game has had one so far Probably the most important thing to do for levelling is getting a ton of statisticians, the easiest way to do that is to obtain the puppy paw stick, I can't for the life of me remember where to get that though heh.
Somehow I imagine it will take some grinding on my part. Just a hunch.
Going into mid and high end content for guild wars on normal, it feels like I just have to spam attacks, like there's no strategy for when you find large groups of mobs. On the other hand, it looks like this is not the case in GW2, so hooray.
Also, its nice to see that Deus Ex: Human Revolution is kind of remedying my earlier complaint but it appears I still have to kill the bosses....Who here killed Maggie Chow?
I feel like the Castlevania-style Metroidvania is a genre that still hasn't had it's masterpiece.
Order of Ecclesia.
Unlike the rest of the games in the series, it didn't put in enough effort to hide the fact that it was heavily linear.
Thinking about it, the only recent, truly somewhat non-linear Metroidvania that I can think of is Aquaria, which was kind of linear in the beginning and end but gave you a large area to explore in the middle.
Going into mid and high end content for guild wars on normal, it feels like I just have to spam attacks, like there's no strategy for when you find large groups of mobs. On the other hand, it looks like this is not the case in GW2, so hooray.
Tried being a healer? The little triangles are so delicious.
Going into mid and high end content for guild wars on normal, it feels like I just have to spam attacks, like there's no strategy for when you find large groups of mobs. On the other hand, it looks like this is not the case in GW2, so hooray.
You have obviously not been to Slaver's Exile. That definitely requires some careful planning, what with the fact that towards the end, half the enemies carry reusable resurrection spells.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Going into mid and high end content for guild wars on normal, it feels like I just have to spam attacks, like there's no strategy for when you find large groups of mobs. On the other hand, it looks like this is not the case in GW2, so hooray.
Which high end areas? Some require very specific tactics to beat. Places like Slavers Exile, Tomb of Primeval Kings, Domain of Anguish, Urgoz Warren... These are all really nasty places where, if you don't plan and coordinate, you'll party wipe in about 10 minutes.
If you're talking like, Fissure of Woe and Underworld, yeah, they're not particularly hard.
Going into mid and high end content for guild wars on normal, it feels like I just have to spam attacks, like there's no strategy for when you find large groups of mobs. On the other hand, it looks like this is not the case in GW2, so hooray.
Also, its nice to see that Deus Ex: Human Revolution is kind of remedying my earlier complaint but it appears I still have to kill the bosses....Who here killed Maggie Chow?
I thought Dawn of Souls was pretty much a masterpiece of the genre. Lots to do and see, not too hard, not too easy. Its only negative point is having an extremely different premise and hero from the typical Castlevania storyline.
I thought Dawn of Souls was pretty much a masterpiece of the genre. Lots to do and see, not too hard, not too easy. Its only negative point is having an extremely different premise and hero from the typical Castlevania storyline.
Quality of area design was a bit too variable for my liking, and it didn't have anything to match OOE's bosses aside from the Death fight.
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It could just be me. I get really annoyed with easy games.
Not that Super Metroid was that hard, except for finding everything.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
My preference says I like SOTN more, for alot of little reasons. It's not really fair though considering the ages of each.
Now before you get too defensive on Metroid's behalf, I like it and absolutely agree it's a classic. SOTN probably wouldn't be what it is without it. I just like the setting, rpg mechanics and Dracula more. I like having him there, a Bowser type presence for old school feel.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Either way, there should be more games with layouts like this. I'm happy that Batman was good (It's like a metroidvania too!)
Craziness.
Now that I'm on the topic, I'll bitch about what Hideo Kojima is doing with the new CV. It doesn't seem to have any of these cool elements that set Castlevania apart from other games and instead looks like a linear action game of middling quality. Batman and Metroid Prime proved you could pull off that formula in 3D without losing much.
It's understandable, SotN is a lot more accessible and has held up a lot better than Super Metroid. SotN is also the best of it's kind (that is, open-ended Castlevania) whereas I think Zero Mission is the best 2D Metroid.
I mentioned that in another thread a while back. My number one complaint about how xbox live marketplace is set up. They really need to have a seperate section for music add ons. I hate having all of 12 or so hours to notice a new add on before 500 new Lips songs bump it off the new release list.
If anything, they could potentially work to increase your interest in an upcoming title.
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It's still a great idea that makes perfect sense. The engine and all the resources are already just sitting right there. Why not throw something together.
In fact, it would be nice if more games released demos that weren't just part of the first level or tutorial. Like the original Starcraft demo that was actually a prequel campaign for the main game.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
While the game is classified as an Arcade title, it definitely feels more like DLC. There just isn't enough there to make it stand on it's own apart from DR2. Like most post-release DLC, it expands on the narrative without adding anything vital.
And just a disclaimer if anyone thinks I'm being negative, or shitting on Case Zero, I bought it, beat it, and enjoyed the time I spent with it and plan on playing the full game after it comes out.
MOH:Airborne. As medicocre as some people thought the game was, I really loved that aspect of it. You could lean out as slowly or quickly and as much as you want with the stick, not just a preset distance- from cover to ready to shoot.
That was a very under-rated game IMO.
Cave story is kind of close as well.
Less isolation and less backtracking though.
I'm especially tired of Metroidvania titles. They need to stop.
Get out of that musky castle and explore the great outdoors.
Lords of Shadow's developers cite Super Castlevania IV as their biggest inspiration for the game.
I can't froth any harder for that game.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
For example, if I want to use a Magic Knight I have to get the mage and fighter class to 35, then pass a proposition. To even attempt to pass a proposition, I must have the mana, gained from killing enemies, to choose it. Then I have to pray that the game doesn't decide it hates mewith representatives that refuse to pass anything, but are also a good hundred levels over my head so forcing it is impossible. After all of that, I would need to get the Magic Knight up to level 30 before I can use it's second form, and then 80 for it's third and so on. And since the higher forms are better and (as far as I can tell) get access to more skills, I pretty much have to. It's alleviated somewhat by the fact that I can capture enemy units, but considering they're worse, will require me to grind their skills back up (and repurchase them with mana, naturally) and I can't capture anything that I can't make, it's not not that much of a help. Oh, you also can't capture anything that's over your protagonist's level, so I can't just go into a high level area, capture some absurdly over-leveled monster, leave and use it to power level.
I mean, I really do like the game but for fuck's sake isn't there a quicker way of going about this?
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
If you didn't know, well. I guess that would be a bummer. But it's the third game in a series known for massive, unending grinds, by a studio known for making games that are massive, unending grinds.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
But, uh, caveat emptor, I guess. The grind is one of the prime selling points of the games.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
SotN is great, but it makes a lot of little mistakes that they fixed in the later games, which were worse in other, more important ways. It's just a shame that that style of game only really came into being just as 2D games went out of style. I think it would be perfect for an MMO and it boggles my mind that nobody has tried it yet. I spent dozens of hours grinding souls in Dawn of Sorrow!
I think with the Disgaea games there is point where it starts getting easier to attain high levels, but it does take some dedication to reach that point. But I wouldn't say it's too insane of a goal. Maybe just come back to it every now and then and spend a little time working on it. The key is to unlock the levels that are made specifically for grinding. It's been a long while since I've actually played 3 but I think on my save I can get a new character straight up to level 1000 on one map with an assist from my main character.
There is a good grinding map open from before you even beat the game. Nine (usually) stationary enemies in a nice little box formation, sitting on +100% EXP tiles. I think my biggest problem so far is that I've tried to grind people equally, instead of just one or two with good area of effect attacks. Most characters just don't have attacks that work for the map. I figure I could just use the Stronger Enemies bill a few times, get comfortable and waste an hour getting to around ~500 and finding a stronger area to buff the rest of my units.
Of course how could I forget, the classic 3x3 grinding map, each game has had one so far
There are mmos like that. They're just awful. Like every other mmo
But they really are bad.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Somehow I imagine it will take some grinding on my part. Just a hunch.
Also, its nice to see that Deus Ex: Human Revolution is kind of remedying my earlier complaint but it appears I still have to kill the bosses....Who here killed Maggie Chow?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Unlike the rest of the games in the series, it didn't put in enough effort to hide the fact that it was heavily linear.
Thinking about it, the only recent, truly somewhat non-linear Metroidvania that I can think of is Aquaria, which was kind of linear in the beginning and end but gave you a large area to explore in the middle.
Tried being a healer? The little triangles are so delicious.
Which high end areas? Some require very specific tactics to beat. Places like Slavers Exile, Tomb of Primeval Kings, Domain of Anguish, Urgoz Warren... These are all really nasty places where, if you don't plan and coordinate, you'll party wipe in about 10 minutes.
If you're talking like, Fissure of Woe and Underworld, yeah, they're not particularly hard.
She got a GEP to the face on my game
In fact the only game I'd put it over is HoD, which is also too damn easy.
Hard but fair.
Harder.
Die in one hit.
Quality of area design was a bit too variable for my liking, and it didn't have anything to match OOE's bosses aside from the Death fight.