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[WoW] [Hunters], Misdirecting everyone but tanks since '07

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    I'm curious: does that still apply to BM hunters, who have a notably lower percent of their total damage output coming from elemental damage sources?

    I have to be honest and say that I don't know as I haven't really seen any BM hunters in PvP, or tried it myself. Assuming that arcane shot is the focus dump for BM than it should still help a good amount. That said, as of 4.2 you'll want spell pen capped regardless of how much of a DPS increase it gives to ensure that your traps will no longer be resisted.

    Inquisitor on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Ok, a while back (about a year ago) I saw a hunter in Westfall(?) and...let me back up.

    I was in Westfall getting dragged through Deadmines by some guildies and I went to turn in the quests at the alliance hub there and I saw a Devilsaur. It was huge! And I couldn't rationalize it's existence on an entirely different continent than what it was indeginous to.

    I saw it chasing after some poor fellow and was like ha! at least it's on that 80 and not me.

    Then I saw it wasn't chasing at all...but following. The 80 was a hunter.

    Now tell me this: whenever I tame a huge beast (like the croc Horrorjaw in Wetlands or the giant turtle in Arathi) they shrink. Why? Why aren't my impressively large tamed beasts retaining their size like that Devilsaur I saw back in the day?

    Is it a level thing(I am 35) or was there a change or is it because the beasts I tamed aren't elites?

    Or none of the above?

    Shawnasee on
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    NoisymunkNoisymunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shawnasee wrote: »
    Ok, a while back (about a year ago) I saw a hunter in Westfall(?) and...let me back up.

    I was in Westfall getting dragged through Deadmines by some guildies and I went to turn in the quests at the alliance hub there and I saw a Devilsaur. It was huge! And I couldn't rationalize it's existence on an entirely different continent than what it was indeginous to.

    I saw it chasing after some poor fellow and was like ha! at least it's on that 80 and not me.

    Then I saw it wasn't chasing at all...but following. The 80 was a hunter.

    Now tell me this: whenever I tame a huge beast (like the croc Horrorjaw in Wetlands or the giant turtle in Arathi) they shrink. Why? Why aren't my impressively large tamed beasts retaining their size like that Devilsaur I saw back in the day?

    Is it a level thing(I am 35) or was there a change or is it because the beasts I tamed aren't elites?

    Or none of the above?

    There was a bug with the tamed Exotic pets where they would appear to be full size when summoned. I know it happened to me a few times when I brought out my Corehound, but it only appeared that way to my client, everyone else saw it pet-sized.

    The Exotic pets like Corehounds and Devilsaurs are slightly larger than the other pet families, but they're still much smaller than the wild versions.

    Noisymunk on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So, at no time in my beast mastery career will I ever have a huge T-Rex following behind me through Goldshire or Redridge inflicting fear upon lowbies who gaze upon it?

    Shawnasee on
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    FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Nope, sorry. What is funny is that T. Rex and Rover retain the "ground-pounding" sound effect even tho they are now quite ordinary size. Makes it sound like they have the specific gravity of uranium.

    At the moment that stupid creepy Skeleton butler from Drek'Thar is following me around, even tho I killed his boss three weeks ago. Leave me alone !

    Fairchild on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Why not?

    Well besides the fact that everyone and their mother would roll a hunter but seriously.

    I saw a guy with a full size T-Rex as his pet...in Westfall where everyone could see him in all his glory.

    The tech is there.

    Say if you're in a raid or heroic or dungeon or a city then you're pet goes to the size they are now but when not in those places why can't they be full size?

    Shawnasee on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Consistency?

    forty on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Noisymunk wrote: »
    Shawnasee wrote: »
    Why not?

    Well besides the fact that everyone and their mother would roll a hunter but seriously.

    I saw a guy with a full size T-Rex as his pet...in Westfall where everyone could see him in all his glory.

    The tech is there.

    Say if you're in a raid or heroic or dungeon or a city then you're pet goes to the size they are now but when not in those places why can't they be full size?

    Because nobody wants a life size Devilsaur blocking a boss in a raid.

    Read what you quoted duder.

    Shawnasee on
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    NoisymunkNoisymunk Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shawnasee wrote: »
    Why not?

    Well besides the fact that everyone and their mother would roll a hunter but seriously.

    I saw a guy with a full size T-Rex as his pet...in Westfall where everyone could see him in all his glory.

    The tech is there.

    Say if you're in a raid or heroic or dungeon or a city then you're pet goes to the size they are now but when not in those places why can't they be full size?

    The guy didn't have a full size T-Rex. Your client was bugged and forgot to resize the mob down to hunter pet size. That was a thing that used to happen, it seems like it's been fixed. To the hunter and everyone else in Westfall but you, he had a normal size pet.

    Noisymunk on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    And my two guildies but I get your point...it was a bug.

    Still, it would be fun.

    Shawnasee on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So, I went BM for a full raid this week, (Only switching out to MM on Cho'gall after a sloppy wipe.) and I gotta say... I'm impressed.

    Yes, there was a slight DPS loss, but it was nowhere near as horrible as I thought it'd be, and it gives us more flexibility.

    It also cemented my opinion that people that rely on the Raidbots website to calculate a spec's average DPS are silly geese. I mean, my gear is pretty good for normals, but I don't even have my 4-piece bonus. I still beat Raidbots' average BM Hunter DPS on 10-man Nefarian normal, narrowed down to only the 100 top parses by a good 2k.

    That leads me to believe most people just haven't taken the time to learn the spec, and maybe after a single raid where they fumbled their rotations/priorities, wrote off BM as garbage and dropped it.

    Anyway, this makes me happy, because BM is definitely my favorite Hunter spec to play, and knowing that it's going to be viable is awesome. It also takes the load off one of our raiders, who was pigeonholed into playing his Mage so we could get Time Warp, but now if he wants to go back to his DK, I can cover for it with a Corehound's Ancient Hysteria.

    aunsoph on
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    SledSled Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The BM hunter in our 10 man raid consistently pulls between 18-22K depending on the fight - with an average ilevel of about 357. He is one of our top DPS, and it is hilarious when our frost mage would have to compete against the pet for most damage done on Nef. I believe his secret, at least before this last patch, was stacking as much haste as possible.

    Sled on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Bm also has the worst AOE of any spec. Keep that in consideration too.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Sled wrote: »
    The BM hunter in our 10 man raid consistently pulls between 18-22K depending on the fight - with an average ilevel of about 357. He is one of our top DPS, and it is hilarious when our frost mage would have to compete against the pet for most damage done on Nef. I believe his secret, at least before this last patch, was stacking as much haste as possible.

    Yeah, I was doing an average of 18k-19k on my first raid as BM. I don't stack Haste, but I do reforge Mastery into it.
    Bm also has the worst AOE of any spec. Keep that in consideration too.

    I just have a Chimaera with me, and it seemed to do the job pretty well on Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus and Cho'gall. (Until it started bugging out on Cho'gall, and wouldn't stay put on one target.)

    aunsoph on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    aunsoph wrote: »
    Sled wrote: »
    The BM hunter in our 10 man raid consistently pulls between 18-22K depending on the fight - with an average ilevel of about 357. He is one of our top DPS, and it is hilarious when our frost mage would have to compete against the pet for most damage done on Nef. I believe his secret, at least before this last patch, was stacking as much haste as possible.

    Yeah, I was doing an average of 18k-19k on my first raid as BM. I don't stack Haste, but I do reforge Mastery into it.
    Bm also has the worst AOE of any spec. Keep that in consideration too.

    I just have a Chimaera with me, and it seemed to do the job pretty well on Magmaw, Maloriak, Halfus and Cho'gall. (Until it started bugging out on Cho'gall, and wouldn't stay put on one target.)
    But you wouldn't be able to use the Chimaera if your mage went back to his DK, no? Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying that it sounds like part of the reason you want to be BM is to be able to provide the bloodlust effect for you raid, and if you're doing that, your AoE pet is not an option.

    Obviously the 3% damage buff and bloodlust (or whatever other raid buff you might be missing) is useful to the raid if no one else is providing them, but what benefits would you say you're getting by being BM over another hunter spec?

    forty on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    If it's a 10 man, I am not even sure if the 3% is worth it. I do A LOT of damage in my 10man. Like I beat everyone on some fights by margins that would make me swaping to BM a raid DPS loss.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    But you wouldn't be able to use the Chimaera if your mage went back to his DK, no? Not trying to be a smart ass, just saying that it sounds like part of the reason you want to be BM is to be able to provide the bloodlust effect for you raid, and if you're doing that, your AoE pet is not an option.

    Obviously the 3% damage buff and bloodlust (or whatever other raid buff you might be missing) is useful to the raid if no one else is providing them, but what benefits would you say you're getting by being BM over another hunter spec?

    On fights where the Chimaera is needed for the AoE, I'll use it during the whole fight and switch out to my Corehound mid-fight when Ancient Hysteria is needed. Dismiss Pet is only a 2 seconds cast time after all. On most fights, it's not even that hard to plan it. Magmaw for instance, we'd only pop Heroism when he's pinned down and there are no adds. Off the top of my head, the only fight that there is some overlap in is Maloriak.
    If it's a 10 man, I am not even sure if the 3% is worth it. I do A LOT of damage in my 10man. Like I beat everyone on some fights by margins that would make me swaping to BM a raid DPS loss.

    Oh, I still top my 10-man meters as BM too. Obviously by a lesser margin now, but the DPS loss wasn't that bad. I mean, on Nefarian I did 19.3k DPS as BM. Which is perhaps 1.5k less than what I did as MM? I don't recall off the top of my head exactly.

    Plus, our Mage insisted on playing Frost, so him going back to his DK is going to more than offset the DPS loss I have, and we'll cover both the 3% extra damage and the +10% attack speed buff we were missing on some fights.

    aunsoph on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Your mage was playing frost? Dear god why? I don't wanna sound like a jerk, but if you are top DPS and pulling 19k, you should just clone yourself and play everyone's character.

    BM isn't that bad, but I feel it's too niche of a role still.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Ah, I didn't actually know you could pull off a pet switcheroo in mid-fight. That's helpful.

    Still, I think there's the issue that Crumbly is hinting at that, unless you're getting some nice raid buffs out of BM that you'd otherwise be missing, BM brings less to the table than the other specs. The only thing BM can really do better is a bit of timed burst DPS with BW if there's a mechanic that requires it. Other than that, you give up some personal DPS, and you force a lot of your total DPS into your pet, which is problematic on some fights.

    forty on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Your mage was playing frost? Dear god why? I don't wanna sound like a jerk, but if you are top DPS and pulling 19k, you should just clone yourself and play everyone's character.

    We have two pretty good DPSers that give me a run for my money often: a Fury Warrior and an Assassination/Combat Rogue. (We also have a Balance Druid that couldn't even beat the tanks on some fights until he got fully purpled out.)

    As for the Mage that switched from his DK to cover for Heroism, he hates Fire, so forcing him to play a spec he hates for a class he hates is a surefire way of getting him burned out very fast. When I switched to my Hunter from my Shadow Priest, I suggested BM as an alternative to him being forced to play something he didn't want to, but no one thought the spec would be legit.

    As MM I did more than a 19k average of course, but really the only fight where the difference seemed to not compensate the raid DPS increase from the 3% buff, the 10% attack speed and Heroism was Atramedes. I was a good 3k-4k DPS lower on that fight than the usual 21k+ I pulled as MM.
    forty wrote: »
    Still, I think there's the issue that Crumbly is hinting at that, unless you're getting some nice raid buffs out of BM that you'd otherwise be missing, BM brings less to the table than the other specs. The only thing BM can really do better is a bit of timed burst DPS with BW if there's a mechanic that requires it. Other than that, you give up some personal DPS, and you force a lot of your total DPS into your pet, which is problematic on some fights.

    Well I obviously like the spec, but I do recognize that it's the one that requires the most micro-managing and the payoff might not be as good in terms of throughput.

    I love the pet buff versatility though, and there are some definite pros to playing it. Like for instance, when combining Spirit Bond with a Spirit Beast's Spirit Mend and the Raptor Strike Glyph, I can basically handle Nefarian's Electrocute by myself.

    aunsoph on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Interesting idea with the Raptor Strike glyph, but of course any spec should be able to take advantage of that.

    forty on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's actually great on a lot of encounters. Given the poor choices for most specs and their Major glyph, it's basically a "why the fuck not given the shitty alternatives?"

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I hope some of these "exciting new tames" actually end up being cool. The ones found so far seem supremely lame.

    Another ghost owl, and two new flavours of Gondria, the lamest spirit beast.

    Might not need to worry about not having enough stable slots after all if this is what's coming. Also fucking spirit beasts again?

    -SPI- on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I hope some of these "exciting new tames" actually end up being cool. The ones found so far seem supremely lame.

    Another ghost owl, and two new flavours of Gondria, the lamest spirit beast.

    Might not need to worry about not having enough stable slots after all if this is what's coming. Also fucking spirit beasts again?

    A tameable Lava Spider named Solix was discovered recently, so there's some hope atleast.

    At the very least, I am glad Blizzard is putting in countermeasures to griefers this time. No more of that "Oh look it has a silver dragon around it I must KILL IT AND STEAL ITS TREASURES." Most of the new tameables will one-shot people, especially the ones with damage that scales based on amount of armor. Having 200k+ health helps, too. So it's nice to see that these are specifically for Hunters only.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    PoketpixiePoketpixie Siege Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I wish they'd do away with that stupid exotic category of pets. It seems like that's all they ever add and I'm tired of not being able to use my coolest pets in other specs.

    Poketpixie on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I am hoping that the challenges will be on par with the hunter quest chain in vanilla. That way everyone won't have the "rare" pets.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The rest have been found now. 5(!) are lava spiders. Some of the cool taming challenges, probably incomplete or partially incorrect:

    Ban'thanlos -High flying owl that hits hard and requires a very careful drop

    Anhka & Magria -Cats that does damage based on armour so you have to get naked

    Deth'tilac-Purple Spider that can't be tamed until it's low health, also it has an instant kill attack, also it increases speed if not damaged and just for good measure it has an aura that reduces healing by 99%

    Anthriss - Yellow Spider that has to be tamed while you are submerged in lava, as it casts webs on you that will KILL you but burn away in lava

    Solix -Orange Spider that starts in lava and can only be tamed while slowed. Which requires a specific daily quest involving runes on the ground in his area.

    Skitterflame -Red Spider that has a heat energy bar, it boosts damage and makes it untameable. Freezing trap will lower it but if it gets to zero it dies.

    Kirix -Green Spider, dunno how it's tamed but it does huge aoe damage.

    -SPI- on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm sure you guys are all HYPED for 3 BM only pets and 5 cunning ones. :?

    -SPI- on
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    RiusRius Globex CEO Nobody ever says ItalyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, I really don't get it. The concept of 8 new rare pets that would possibly require Rhok'delar levels of planning and/or execution had me super excited.

    Then I find out that there's a spirit beast owl, which is cool; the first flying spirit beast. And I like collecting them; I already have the existing six. His "gimmick" is spamming you with moonfire as you fall from aggroing him high up in the sky... Parachute cloak can take care of that. Kind of lame, but definitely still excited.

    Then I find out that there's two more spirit beasts... and they're both recolors of Gondria. So now we have white and blue versions of the purple spirit beast cat; a model that I already don't use because Loque'nahak will always be the most beautiful. Oh, and they both have the same gimmick; just get naked and suddenly they hit like wet noodles. Um, ok?

    And then I find out that the last five are all recolors of the new magma spider model. At least they have interesting sounding gimmicks... they're most like the Rhok'delar quest demons, in my opinion.

    Frankly, I'm happy for something to do that will remind me of the epic times I had getting my Rhok on, but I can't help but be disappointed. If they wanted to make three of the pets BM only, why not swap one of those cats for a new Core Hound? Or a Magma Worm? Why five spiders?

    The only good thing that can be said about this set of new pets is I'll only need to make room in my stables for three new pets instead of eight. Possibly just two; I want the Owl and one of the Spiders and I might just swap my Gondria for the white version.

    Rius on
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    -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    One of these would have been awesome. I would make room for that, the stuff we got? Not so much.

    -SPI- on
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Can you dismiss and call pets while under Deterrence? I'm wondering if I can Distracting Shot -> Deterrence -> Dismiss Pet -> Call Turtle -> Turtle Shield Wall/Taunt to recover from a tank death.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Deterrence specifically prevents you from "attacking," and I kind of doubt Dismiss Pet is treated as an offensive ability in any way. So that seems possible. Only one way to be sure, though.

    forty on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wow. Those pets are suck. Looks like I will tame ONE of the FIVE spiders, then call it quits. Fuck off Blizzard.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, I appreciate their effort to make eight sort of unique tamable encounters, but to make two of them spectral tigers and then five of them spiders? That's lazy on a level I didn't think was possible, jesus christ. It's not like there aren't already a shitload of other models both new and old that they could use in place of them. I'll tame one of the spectral tigers just because I could never find goddamn Gondria (or any of the WotLK SBs for that matter) and one of the spiders, but that's it.

    Halfmex on
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    aunsophaunsoph Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, I'll be taming the spirit beast owl, Ban'thalos, to replace my Olm.

    After that, I'll get one of the spiders, but definitely not the hardest one to tame. Simply because the purple one is yet another case of Blizzard creating a model with a particle effect, then keeping it the same color across all reskins. So while the red fire spider has molten red lava legs with a red fiery spark on its legs and mandibles... the purple fire spider has molten purple lava legs with the same red fiery spark. And it kind of looks like ass.

    Don't care for the tigers. Hell, I have Gondria and can't even remember the last time I used her. Gondria and Karoma are just too ugly from a technical standpoint.

    aunsoph on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think Killing Streak is strong evidence that no one influential at Blizzard plays a BM hunter.

    forty on
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I've been trying to force myself to play Marksmanship and ugh... I don't know, it just feels *so* awkward. Survival is just a lot more smooth.

    I wish they'd just bring Survival up to par with MM (I know the Careful Aim nerf brings MM down a bit more than Surv/BM but that's not the same thing.)

    Dranyth on
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    JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Double Rapid Fire and Rapid Recuperation put MM over Survival and BM for me. Whenever I play the other specs I miss having 50 focus on a kill and insane burst from upgraded double Rapid Fires.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I've sort of been overlooking Rapid Fire, partly because I'm still trying to get the rotation itself to feel comfortable... speeding that up isn't going to help that. But you're right, that would definitely put my damage up.

    Hell, I don't even use Rapid Fire enough just as Survival... I'm bad about cooldowns in general.

    Dranyth on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Black Arrow is finally getting the boost that everyone has been calling for since Cata was released. Maybe Survival will be not so suck now!

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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