Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Some say that fears of stranger rape are part of rape culture, but I'd argue that fear of infrequent yet devastating things is a human trait.
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Fair enough. Now that we know the risk is minimal, it's totally cool if we all go to sexy parties with strangers and drink anything that anyone gives us.
Saying that wearing revealing clothing increases the risk of rape is pretty much ignoring one key thing.
I don't know of any rapist that was stopped by a layer of clothing.
I'm sure there are PA fans who were physically abused, but no one says they were triggered when Tycho beats the shit out of Gabe or vice versa. I'm sure there are people who have cancer or AIDS or were victimized by pedophiles when they were younger, but no one said anything when comics with those topics as a punchline came out, but when they do a comic in which a fictitious NPC in a fictitious MMO was raped by a fictitious creature, the activists come out of the woodwork. I'm not saying the activists are wrong. I just want to understand what makes this non-PC joke special.
I cant speak for anyone else but I suspect what caused people to have a strong reaction to this comic and not say, the fruit fucker was theres a slight flavor of "rape as humilation" that got to some people. As in: the guy's being raped, and thats terrible, but it's by something funny, so you laugh.
In reality though most rapists arent guys who just need to get laid so bad that they hang around in alleys to get it at knifepoint or something. Its the domination/humilation aspect that gives the crime its power. The idea of a humiliating or "funny" rape is exactly the motivation that lies behind a lot of sexual assault, as well as the embaressment that causes the crime to scar victims psychologically and be reluctant to come forward. Prison rape victims in particular have trouble coming to terms with "dropped the soap LOLOL!" type shit.
Thats the difference between a rape joke and say, a cancer joke. Cancer's bad, but everyone gets it. Cancer doesent work to conciously mock and denigrate your worth as a human being.
Thats why activists get so wound up about the idea that there can ever be a "funny" rape.
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Fair enough. Now that we know the risk is minimal, it's totally cool if we all go to sexy parties with strangers and drink anything that anyone gives us.
As Drez stated before, every activity has risks. Going to a party in your underwear (which happens ALL the time at college) or going off to chat with your uncle at a family reunion. Those can both result in a sexual assault, so I guess you should never do anything then, right?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Some say that fears of stranger rape are part of rape culture, but I'd argue that fear of infrequent yet devastating things is a human trait.
I'd say it's part of our media's obsession with making us afraid of really unlikely shit happening.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Perhaps I missed it in the proceeding 40+ pages, but did anyone actually define "rape culture" yet? Because it seems like a really, really, really stupid term to be using. It doesn't mean anything. I request that people stop using phrases and words that don't mean anything.
Seriously, does it mean we live in a culture of rape? Where it is an acceptable thing that no one bats an eye at? Because that's wrong. Go find me one bit of news footage from any news station that has ever existed in this country where this happens:
"A woman was raped in downtown Bakersville today"
"Ah, good for the perp. He got his. Hahahaha"
Or does it mean that making jokes about rape makes people more apt to be rapists in the future? If that's the case, are there any studies to back this up? Are people being desensitized and turned into rapists because of a PA comic? If so, I'd love to know so I can stop reading it. Wouldn't want to be a rapist, after all.
Until someone can find a usable definition and present it to the class, I request people stop using the goosing phrase.
It has multiple definitions, depending on the person using it. Some people think the term is applicable to jokes about rape, in that it supports the culture. Others think that the term shouldn't apply to humor, because it helps with healing and normalization after tragedy. Others think that it applies to a widespread problem with American culture in which rape is encouraged. Others think that it applies to the lack of support for victims of rape in regards to justice and subsequent healing.
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Fair enough. Now that we know the risk is minimal, it's totally cool if we all go to sexy parties with strangers and drink anything that anyone gives us.
Why would anyone anywhere drink anything that a stranger let alone anyone else got for us?
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Some say that fears of stranger rape are part of rape culture, but I'd argue that fear of infrequent yet devastating things is a human trait.
I don't really fear being raped as I walk down my neighborhood.
Just about all of my female friends do.
Hell, my hairdresser told me the other day that normally she doesn't do cuts alone with guys, but her boss told her I was coming in and that I wasn't a crazy/random person and that I could be trusted.
I really felt terrible that she even had to think about that.
As a man, I don't really think about anything remotely close to that.
As Drez stated before, every activity has risks. Going to a party in your underwear (which happens ALL the time at college) or going off to chat with your uncle at a family reunion. Those can both result in a sexual assault, so I guess you should never do anything then, right?
Never said you shouldn't do anything with risks. I only said you should be aware of the risks and act appropriately. If you want to go to a lingerie party at a frat house, that's totally fine, but maybe you should be careful about what you're drinking and where that drink came from. Maybe you should make an attempt to not get fall down, passed out, drunk, and perhaps you should think about who you're going home with that night, if anyone.
Do fun things--do them however you like. Just don't do them in a stupid way. Dressing in sexy outfits isn't stupid, but going home with the first guy that buys you a drink probably is. I'll admit that it's generally a bit out of line to even bring up clothing in regards to parties and such, so I apologize for my part in making any issue about clothing, but I stand by the idea that playing things smart is always a good idea especially in situations where things can so easily turn ugly--despite what the statistics say.
As Drez stated before, every activity has risks. Going to a party in your underwear (which happens ALL the time at college) or going off to chat with your uncle at a family reunion. Those can both result in a sexual assault, so I guess you should never do anything then, right?
Never said you shouldn't do anything with risks. I only said you should be aware of the risks and act appropriately. If you want to go to a lingerie party at a frat house, that's totally fine, but maybe you should be careful about what you're drinking and where that drink came from. Maybe you should make an attempt to not get fall down, passed out, drunk, and perhaps you should think about who you're going home with that night, if anyone.
Do fun things--do them however you like. Just don't do them in a stupid way. Dressing in sexy outfits isn't stupid, but going home with the first guy that buys you a drink probably is. I'll admit that it's generally a bit out of line to even bring up clothing in regards to parties and such, so I apologize for my part in making any issue about clothing, but I stand by the idea that playing things smart is always a good idea especially in situations where things can so easily turn ugly--despite what the statistics say.
My friend was raped at a party.
She was sober - there were a few drunk people and everything, some sober.
The guy pulled her into a room and then shoved his hand into her vagina.
I don't get what you're saying. Everyone basically told her that maybe she shouldn't have been at a party where people were drinking excessively.
I thought it was pretty fucked up that anyone could even suggest that she could have prevented the situation or known that there was an increased chance of it happening.
I know I don't personally think of getting raped at parties.
Wow, this thread has been busy. Just to throw out there, a lot of the discussion now seems to be centered around "rape culture" and its perpetuation. I, to some extent, agree that the word is a bit over-inflammatory, but a better way to put it is a social environment in which women are unnecessarily made to feel threatened or unsafe. That's a very real thing, and as a man, it doesn't take conversations with many women to realize that they have to consider risks to their safety on a regular basis in a way men generally don't.
That said, I think the line has gotten a bit blurred between the original comic and the response. I don't think the original comic significantly contributed to that situation. I understand why some people might, and they are welcome to their opinion, and I realize that they might say that my disagreement means that I help perpetuate that situation, and I'm truly sorry they feel that way. But I've said it before, and I'll repeat, I did not find the original comic offensive.
The second comic was directed specifically at people who were offended by the original, some of whom were very open about the fact that their offense stemmed from being rape survivors, and it then included language that trivialized rape. Trivializing rape in a comment direct towards rape survivors most certainly does contribute to women feeling unsafe. To tell a rape survivor, in a mocking tone, that you "hate rapers and all the rapes they do" is, frankly, unfathomably classless and cruel, and goes a long way towards perpetuating the stereotype of rape survivors as crazy hysterics.
And, as has been stated, this isn't outrage on my part. It's deep disappointment.
I don't really fear being raped as I walk down my neighborhood.
Just about all of my female friends do.
Hell, my hairdresser told me the other day that normally she doesn't do cuts alone with guys, but her boss told her I was coming in and that I wasn't a crazy/random person and that I could be trusted.
I really felt terrible that she even had to think about that.
As a man, I don't really think about anything remotely close to that.
And that really sucks. I don't know why women have to fear things that men don't. I could guess why, but all my guesses involve stereotypes, so I'll avoid saying them.
a term used within women's studies and feminism, describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence (usually against women) are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence.
Within the paradigm, acts of sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices; for instance, sexist jokes may be told to foster disrespect for women and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, which ultimately make their rape and abuse seem "acceptable". Examples of behaviors that typify rape culture include victim blaming and sexual objectification.
Wiki also says that the term originated as "rape-supportive" culture in 1992.
I'd add that rape culture is one part of a culture of violence that fetishizes/normalizes/excuses/minimizes the impact of/encourages violence.
Symptoms include the fact that the majority of college-aged men who have, by their own admission, committed actions that fit the legal definition of rape do not believe that what they've done is rape (I have posted a citation from a peer-reviewed journal. it's way back in the thread and if anyone's interested go back and read the whole thread, i don't remember what page it's on); widespread buying into rape myths like women often lie and say they were raped when they had consensual sex, women who wear revealing clothing are at least partially responsible for their own rapes, etc. (I also cited a journal study on this one); that prison rape is widely considered to be par for the course, especially if the prisoner is a sex offender; that people believe men can't be raped by women for whatever reason (such as the idea that men always want sex or that they wouldn't be able to get it up if they weren't into it); that rape prevention campaigns have by and large been about potential victims preventing rape rather than targeting bystanders or rapists (though that's changing now); comments like "I'd rape her," which incidentally have come up on this particular forum (not this thread obviously), regardless of whether they're "jokes" or not; the casual use of the term rape to mean things other than rape, such as when XBL idiots say "we're getting totally raped this game" or whatever; and the fact that a huge proportion of rape victims/survivors are afraid or reluctant to report their rapes. Among other things.
Wow, this thread has been busy. Just to throw out there, a lot of the discussion now seems to be centered around "rape culture" and its perpetuation. I, to some extent, agree that the word is a bit over-inflammatory, but a better way to put it is a social environment in which women are unnecessarily made to feel threatened or unsafe. That's a very real thing, and as a man, it doesn't take conversations with many women to realize that they have to consider risks to their safety on a regular basis in a way men generally don't.
That said, I think the line has gotten a bit blurred between the original comic and the response. I don't think the original comic significantly contributed to that situation. I understand why some people might, and they are welcome to their opinion, and I realize that they might say that my disagreement means that I help perpetuate that situation, and I'm truly sorry they feel that way. But I've said it before, and I'll repeat, I did not find the original comic offensive.
The second comic was directed specifically at people who were offended by the original, some of whom were very open about the fact that their offense stemmed from being rape survivors, and it then included language that trivialized rape. Trivializing rape in a comment direct towards rape survivors most certainly does contribute to women feeling unsafe. To tell a rape survivor, in a mocking tone, that you "hate rapers and all the rapes they do" is, frankly, unfathomably classless and cruel, and goes a long way towards perpetuating the stereotype of rape survivors as crazy hysterics.
And, as has been stated, this isn't outrage on my part. It's deep disappointment.
She was sober - there were a few drunk people and everything, some sober.
The guy pulled her into a room and then shoved his hand into her vagina.
I don't get what you're saying. Everyone basically told her that maybe she shouldn't have been at a party where people were drinking excessively.
I thought it was pretty fucked up that anyone could even suggest that she could have prevented the situation or known that there was an increased chance of it happening.
I know I don't personally think of getting raped at parties.
Guess going to parties is stupid or something.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that ALL rape is preventable by the victim. In that situation, there was little the victim could have done outside of not going to the party and, no, I don't think that people should feel like they can't go to parties.
That situation sucks and situations like it suck. It doesn't mean that you throw caution to the wind though. I agree that it would be nice to not have to feel like we sometimes need to take caution. It would be nice if under no circumstances no one was raped. That's just not the world we currently live in. We have to be careful sometimes. Your friend in your story is not the type of person or situation that anyone is talking about, but if anyone is saying that people who go to frat parties are asking for trouble then they are jerks.
a term used within women's studies and feminism, describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence (usually against women) are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence.
Within the paradigm, acts of sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices; for instance, sexist jokes may be told to foster disrespect for women and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, which ultimately make their rape and abuse seem "acceptable". Examples of behaviors that typify rape culture include victim blaming and sexual objectification.
Wiki also says that the term originated as "rape-supportive" culture in 1992.
I'd add that rape culture is one part of a culture of violence that fetishizes/normalizes/excuses/minimizes the impact of/encourages violence.
Symptoms include the fact that the majority of college-aged men who have, by their own admission, committed actions that fit the legal definition of rape do not believe that what they've done is rape (I have posted a citation from a peer-reviewed journal. it's way back in the thread and if anyone's interested go back and read the whole thread, i don't remember what page it's on); widespread buying into rape myths like women often lie and say they were raped when they had consensual sex, women who wear revealing clothing are at least partially responsible for their own rapes, etc. (I also cited a journal study on this one); that prison rape is widely considered to be par for the course, especially if the prisoner is a sex offender; that people believe men can't be raped by women for whatever reason (such as the idea that men always want sex or that they wouldn't be able to get it up if they weren't into it); that rape prevention campaigns have by and large been about potential victims preventing rape rather than targeting bystanders or rapists (though that's changing now); comments like "I'd rape her," which incidentally have come up on this particular forum (not this thread obviously), regardless of whether they're "jokes" or not; the casual use of the term rape to mean things other than rape, such as when XBL idiots say "we're getting totally raped this game" or whatever; and the fact that a huge proportion of rape victims/survivors are afraid or reluctant to report their rapes. Among other things.
See, I don't disagree with any of that.
I think what we see in response to that though is the same sort of outrage you get when you talk about white privilege. No one wants to think they are supporting or benefiting from something so horrible. What they need to realize is that it isn't about THEM but about what we as a society collectively engage in, and then work to minimize that.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Perhaps I missed it in the proceeding 40+ pages, but did anyone actually define "rape culture" yet? Because it seems like a really, really, really stupid term to be using. It doesn't mean anything. I request that people stop using phrases and words that don't mean anything.
Seriously, does it mean we live in a culture of rape? Where it is an acceptable thing that no one bats an eye at? Because that's wrong. Go find me one bit of news footage from any news station that has ever existed in this country where this happens:
"A woman was raped in downtown Bakersville today"
"Ah, good for the perp. He got his. Hahahaha"
Or does it mean that making jokes about rape makes people more apt to be rapists in the future? If that's the case, are there any studies to back this up? Are people being desensitized and turned into rapists because of a PA comic? If so, I'd love to know so I can stop reading it. Wouldn't want to be a rapist, after all.
Until someone can find a usable definition and present it to the class, I request people stop using the goosing phrase.
It has multiple definitions, depending on the person using it. Some people think the term is applicable to jokes about rape, in that it supports the culture. Others think that the term shouldn't apply to humor, because it helps with healing and normalization after tragedy. Others think that it applies to a widespread problem with American culture in which rape is encouraged. Others think that it applies to the lack of support for victims of rape in regards to justice and subsequent healing.
Jokes about rape do not support rapists, just as jokes about hating mother-in laws or stereotypes do not encourage people to hate their families or somehow become racist.
American culture does not encourage rape. Anyone who thinks that is a complete goose.
I'm not quite sure I understand the last sentence. People are murdered in this country all the time. Jokes are made about murder. Entire TV shows are based around it. And I'm pretty those affected by murder never quite fully heal from it in their lifetimes, nor do all of them receive what they would consider justice. But I never hear the phrase "murder culture" thrown around by people. Probably because it's silly sounding phrase that is pretty much impossible to have a discussion with.
I just think that if we're going to actually have an intelligent discussion about something, we should be working with words and phrase that A) Have a definition we all understand and If the word has multiple definitions, we pick one and go with it. "Rape culture" doesn't meet either of those criteria.
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
She was sober - there were a few drunk people and everything, some sober.
The guy pulled her into a room and then shoved his hand into her vagina.
I don't get what you're saying. Everyone basically told her that maybe she shouldn't have been at a party where people were drinking excessively.
I thought it was pretty fucked up that anyone could even suggest that she could have prevented the situation or known that there was an increased chance of it happening.
I know I don't personally think of getting raped at parties.
Guess going to parties is stupid or something.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that ALL rape is preventable by the victim. In that situation, there was little the victim could have done outside of not going to the party and, no, I don't think that people should feel like they can't go to parties.
That situation sucks and situations like it suck. It doesn't mean that you throw caution to the wind though. I agree that it would be nice to not have to feel like we sometimes need to take caution. It would be nice if under no circumstances no one was raped. That's just not the world we currently live in. We have to be careful sometimes. Your friend in your story is not the type of person or situation that anyone is talking about, but if anyone is saying that people who go to frat parties are asking for trouble then they are jerks.
No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
So we're not disagreeing--we're just misreading each other. Or, rather, for my part, I'm probably ranting without thinking and misspeaking, which sounds about right.
This is a weird issue because it's not just the PA community. I'm willing to bet that some of the strongest opposition to PA on this comes from people who haven't read the comic more than a couple of times, if ever. So we have people who aren't readers that are upset. We have male readers who have never been raped or known anyone who was raped being upset in a white-knight type fashion. We have readers who were raped or know someone who was raped, being upset (possibly) What number percentage would you assign to these groups? Should we listen to any of them? If so which group? What about people who have had friend murdered, such as myself? Can I petition to remove all references to murder? Would that be a reasonable request?
You can't even get most of the people complaining to even tell you what they want. No shirts about characters that were referenced to be involved in rape? No comics about rape unless it shows rape as being really bad and the joke isn't actually about the rape? No comics about rape at all? Or, no one should ever say the word rape unless a psychologist is present and leading a discussion.
People like to joke/talk/discuss things that have power. The N-word, saying retarded, using the terminology of murder, rape, disease, hardships etc. If you have been victimized, I am truly sorry, however you should come to terms with the fact that people might bring those acts up in the future.
[No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
It isn't? Rape is like any other crime. Sometimes it can be prevented, and sometimes it can't.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
Any word which is taboo or any point of discussion which is forbidden will always attract people to use the word and discuss it. If you want to raise the awareness of rape, then you need to talk about it.
Hell, the correct response to the comic was not to complain about the use of rape, but to comment on the fact that the fact that they were being raped by dickwolves was perceived as being VASTLY worse than them being say, killed by dickwolves, or having their organs harvested for meat to build bone homes for evil dudes. Even if they guy had said 'If I'm not saved the dickwolves will also kidnap my children and put them to work in salt mines!' the situation would still not be perceived as as bad as the person being raped. The point of the comic is to have the center panel show the worst possible thing that could happen, then the 'hero' ignoring it because he has fulfilled his quota.
Honestly, the comic doesn't perpetrate a rape culture. It shows how succesful the anti-rape culture (which is 100% right) has been in making society perceive rape as bad.
[No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
It isn't? Rape is like any other crime. Sometimes it can be prevented, and sometimes it can't.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
And that will prevent you from being raped?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
[No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
It isn't? Rape is like any other crime. Sometimes it can be prevented, and sometimes it can't.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
To tell a rape survivor, in a mocking tone, that you "hate rapers and all the rapes they do" is, frankly, unfathomably classless and cruel, and goes a long way towards perpetuating the stereotype of rape survivors as crazy hysterics.
We have no idea who Jerry and Mike are addressing or even if they are addressing anybody at all specifically. I assume they're talking to certain emailers or some of the inflammatory bloggers that have been mentioned earlier. Could some of them be rape survivors? It's possible. Are Jerry and Mike addressing them on that level? I doubt it. They're likely addressing them on their outrage to the Dickwolves comic.
Their goal is to be funny. Maybe they thought that would just make a funny comic strip because that's what they do. They got these outraged emails, and thought that making a comment on being outraged about a PA strip would be funny. If they failed to be funny to you, that's OK. It's OK if you were offended by it as well. Assuming their intent is less OK.
Assuming they're taking time to go out of their way to basically stick it to rape survivors is just casting aspersions.
[No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
It isn't? Rape is like any other crime. Sometimes it can be prevented, and sometimes it can't.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
And that will prevent you from being raped?
Sometimes, sure. If the raper's MO involves roofie-coladas and sex with your unconscious body, not drinking the roofie-colada can prevent the unconsciousness required for the rapering in that situation.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
What if, and hear me out here... every time we saw a guy hand someone a drink, we shot him?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Crap! I'm trying to catch back up with what I missed while sleeping and it seems like every time I read a page, a new page is made so I can't catch up. And as I go through I was making responses to different things people were saying but now some of them are over ten pages old and no longer relevant so I had to go back and delete some of my responses. So I am going to post what I have currently, since some of it isn't any specific response and I want to get it said before even more pages get added, and then try to catch back up to the current discussion.
"Ha ha! You silly rape victims! We hate rapers and all the rapity rape rape they rape! Now I have to go encourage people to rape, because I'm such a rape promoter! Ha ha!" - Trivializing rape.
No, They are trying to put it in as a clear language as possible for morons who are so stupid they thought that the first comic was about rape-apologizing.
That's another thing. Now the shirt has another allure to it that it didn't before: scarsity and controversy. I've seen a lot more people express interest in purchasing a Dickwolves shirt now that it's no longer offered and is being villanized. People who own one and are keeping up with the controversy are also now more likely to wear it because now they're part of an exclusive club and/or out of spite towards the detractors. 4chan and others are even giving instructions on printing your own.
Yup. I did a little searching and found one of those websites where people put there own design and someone did a Dickwolves shirt. I payed $30 for one. The only thing that makes me sad is knowing that it isn't an official one.
Christ I couldn't even wear a "Rogues do it from behind" T-shirt (which... does that one promote rape culture or just anal sex culture? given that rogues are known for ambushing and whatnot?)
This brings up a good point. If the crazy people started saying that that is supporting rape and anyone who wears it is a rape-apologist, would that all of a sudden mean that G&T are being dicks for putting the shirt out? Would they be dicks if they left it up? Would people be shout that they should choose the better-man route and take them down? No? Well then why all the noise over this?
Without the rape culture, rape and sexual assault would disappear; it's only because men think that rape is socially acceptable / encouraged that sexual assault occurs.
I big NO! It has nothing to do with men thinking that rape is socially acceptable. Just like it's almost never about actual sex. It is things like of that that helps to hurt the progress of stopping rape. It has to do with domination.
a good number of people feel the woman is partly at fault for her rape if she was being flirtatious, or was drunk, or was dressed a certain way.
I highly doubt that "a good number" is the correct choice of words more. More something like like, an extremely small fraction of a percent, but vocal and get attention because what they say is crazy, group.
Some have said that they need to apologize, that they didn't mean to be offensive, yadayadayada. I say no. You only apologize to people who have the ability to reason. These people don't and the only way to deal with them is one, completely ignore them but wheres the fun in that? Or two, put them down as hard as possible. I believe option two is far better, especially when that person is someone who thinks it's ok to go around accusing someone of being a rape-apologist.
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
I think that saying to someone 'You shouldn't really take drinks from strangers' is like other safety advice. It doesn't condone the consequences of not following it, but it does say that if you want to be safer there are steps you can take.
For example, I might give this advice to a guy 'If walking behind a girl you don't know at night, either speed up and walk past her, or stop and wait for her to walk ahead' This doesn't mean I think he is a rapist, it just says that he can be considerate of the feelings of others.
Or, I might say to a barman 'If someone buys a drink for a girl at the bar, give her the drink yourself and tell her who it is from, don't give it to the guy and have her give it to him', again I'm not blaming the barman, I'm just saying there are steps we can take to make things safer for people.
I don't approve of pedestrians being run over, but I still think you should be careful even in a crosswalk.
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
I think that saying to someone 'You shouldn't really take drinks from strangers' is like other safety advice. It doesn't condone the consequences of not following it, but it does say that if you want to be safer there are steps you can take.
For example, I might give this advice to a guy 'If walking behind a girl you don't know at night, either speed up and walk past her, or stop and wait for her to walk ahead' This doesn't mean I think he is a rapist, it just says that he can be considerate of the feelings of others.
Or, I might say to a barman 'If someone buys a drink for a girl at the bar, give her the drink yourself and tell her who it is from, don't give it to the guy and have her give it to him', again I'm not blaming the barman, I'm just saying there are steps we can take to make things safer for people.
I don't approve of pedestrians being run over, but I still think you should be careful even in a crosswalk.
I wish we could get off this subject as it is really a whole other topic waiting to happen but "don't take drinks from strangers" is good gender-neutral advice while "don't dress provocatively" is constructed entirely for one gender and has been pointed out only a page or two ago doesn't even have supporting evidence.
Have people been roofied and raped? Yes. Proven fact. Does wearing a short skirt provoke rape? Totally unproven.
Frat's have "wear revealing clothing" parties all the time. I mean, that's kind of what they are known for. So, if everyone woman who goes to one of these isn't being raped, exactly what kind of point are you trying to make here?
There's a risk even at "wear revealing clothing" parties, especially if it's at a frat with horny drunk dudes. They should be allowed to have those parties, I believe, but everyone involved should also be aware of the risks. If you're comfortable with the risks, then you should absolutely go and have a blast.
No one has shown there is any more risk of being raped at one of those parties then there is of being raped at a church mixer.
And has been stated over and over again, the stranger rape scenario accounts for like, 1% of all rapes, so is that even relevant to this discussion at all?
Fair enough. Now that we know the risk is minimal, it's totally cool if we all go to sexy parties with strangers and drink anything that anyone gives us.
Well of course it has risk. But just because the overall majority of rape cases recorded shows that this would be a 1% rape situation (at large) doesn't mean going into the situation that it doesn't carry a 100% rape possibility. But, statistically, after all is said and done, accounting for your single rape in the greater scheme of things would put it into the 1%, because outside of your weird ass example the real world numbers still apply.
That still doesn't mean you should run into the middle of a minefield because the majority of the mines are on the left side and you think you can stick to the right side.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I'm sorry for posting this single thing so soon after my last post without having even finished reading the rest of the posts onward, but this pisses me off.
Then how about the Republicans, representatives of a major portion of America, wanting to legally change the definition of what rape is?
Wow, so that website doesn't actually post a link to the actual bill or post it's actual contents. This is what typical anti-freedom people do. You see it all the time in people who post how violent video games make people violent, D&D make people devil worshipers, and gun ownership causes blood in the streets. They never post the real stats, just there interpretation of the stats.
I'm sorry for posting this single thing so soon after my last post without having even finished reading the rest of the posts onward, but this pisses me off.
Then how about the Republicans, representatives of a major portion of America, wanting to legally change the definition of what rape is?
Wow, so that website doesn't actually post a link to the actual bill or post it's actual contents. This is what typical anti-freedom people do. You see it all the time in people who post how violent video games make people violent, D&D make people devil worshipers, and gun ownership causes blood in the streets. They never post the real stats, just there interpretation of the stats.
I'm sorry, did you say anti-freedom?
Like, not ironically?
Oh, and by the way, every website does that. Even the... uh... pro-freedom? ones do. I've never seen Foxnews.com post a bill in its entirety, or even provide a link to one.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
"Rape culture" is a great boogie-man for feminists, because it means whatever they want it to mean when making a particular argument.
It's a concept that's impossible to actually discuss because no one can really define it in a meaningful way. And you should know by now that any crime or rape statistics will simply be handwaved away if they don't fit in to rape culture meme.
To be fair, you can say that about almost any concept in social science. As long as people are arguing in good faith and not moving the goal posts, there's no reason it really needs an exact definition to be used in an argument.
Not so. A great many concepts in social science have very precise, measured meanings. Religiosity, to take an example I'm familiar with, is a measure of how devout someone is, measured by a regression over like four or five different statistics. Frankly, I find it incredibly difficult to believe there's been any quantitative research of note into "rape culture."
[No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
It isn't? Rape is like any other crime. Sometimes it can be prevented, and sometimes it can't.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
As other people have pointed out, doing that will reduce your risk of being raped by about 1%. Most rapes are not the result of roofies.
Now, it is still good advice, but I read your comment like you think it would be a simple matter for women to change their behavior and prevent a good chunk of all rapes. And that is just flat out false.
Kistra on
Animal Crossing: City Folk Lissa in Filmore 3179-9580-0076
I think drez pretty much hit the nail on the head. If we keep talking about the what is preventable/avoidable it kinda misses the whole point.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
I think a good place to start is frank and honest recognition of the fact that any one of us could, in fact, be a rapist, and that quite probably some of us are. That's a really hard thing to admit, because we've built this edifice of rationalization that all rapists are monsters, and nobody wants to think of themselves as a monster. So maybe we have to dial that back a bit, and recognize that rape is a terrible thing, but it often happens because people feel a sense of entitlement to another person's body, and that sense of entitlement overrides their empathy and better judgment, not because that person is demented or sadistic or especially cruel in general.
Oh, and by the way, every website does that. Even the... uh... pro-freedom? ones do. I've never seen Foxnews.com post a bill in its entirety, or even provide a link to one.
Would there normally be irony to be had? What does Fox News, mostly filled with RINOs, have to do with anything?
Posts
Some say that fears of stranger rape are part of rape culture, but I'd argue that fear of infrequent yet devastating things is a human trait.
Saying that wearing revealing clothing increases the risk of rape is pretty much ignoring one key thing.
I don't know of any rapist that was stopped by a layer of clothing.
I cant speak for anyone else but I suspect what caused people to have a strong reaction to this comic and not say, the fruit fucker was theres a slight flavor of "rape as humilation" that got to some people. As in: the guy's being raped, and thats terrible, but it's by something funny, so you laugh.
In reality though most rapists arent guys who just need to get laid so bad that they hang around in alleys to get it at knifepoint or something. Its the domination/humilation aspect that gives the crime its power. The idea of a humiliating or "funny" rape is exactly the motivation that lies behind a lot of sexual assault, as well as the embaressment that causes the crime to scar victims psychologically and be reluctant to come forward. Prison rape victims in particular have trouble coming to terms with "dropped the soap LOLOL!" type shit.
Thats the difference between a rape joke and say, a cancer joke. Cancer's bad, but everyone gets it. Cancer doesent work to conciously mock and denigrate your worth as a human being.
Thats why activists get so wound up about the idea that there can ever be a "funny" rape.
As Drez stated before, every activity has risks. Going to a party in your underwear (which happens ALL the time at college) or going off to chat with your uncle at a family reunion. Those can both result in a sexual assault, so I guess you should never do anything then, right?
I'd say it's part of our media's obsession with making us afraid of really unlikely shit happening.
It has multiple definitions, depending on the person using it. Some people think the term is applicable to jokes about rape, in that it supports the culture. Others think that the term shouldn't apply to humor, because it helps with healing and normalization after tragedy. Others think that it applies to a widespread problem with American culture in which rape is encouraged. Others think that it applies to the lack of support for victims of rape in regards to justice and subsequent healing.
Why would anyone anywhere drink anything that a stranger let alone anyone else got for us?
I don't really fear being raped as I walk down my neighborhood.
Just about all of my female friends do.
Hell, my hairdresser told me the other day that normally she doesn't do cuts alone with guys, but her boss told her I was coming in and that I wasn't a crazy/random person and that I could be trusted.
I really felt terrible that she even had to think about that.
As a man, I don't really think about anything remotely close to that.
Never said you shouldn't do anything with risks. I only said you should be aware of the risks and act appropriately. If you want to go to a lingerie party at a frat house, that's totally fine, but maybe you should be careful about what you're drinking and where that drink came from. Maybe you should make an attempt to not get fall down, passed out, drunk, and perhaps you should think about who you're going home with that night, if anyone.
Do fun things--do them however you like. Just don't do them in a stupid way. Dressing in sexy outfits isn't stupid, but going home with the first guy that buys you a drink probably is. I'll admit that it's generally a bit out of line to even bring up clothing in regards to parties and such, so I apologize for my part in making any issue about clothing, but I stand by the idea that playing things smart is always a good idea especially in situations where things can so easily turn ugly--despite what the statistics say.
My friend was raped at a party.
She was sober - there were a few drunk people and everything, some sober.
The guy pulled her into a room and then shoved his hand into her vagina.
I don't get what you're saying. Everyone basically told her that maybe she shouldn't have been at a party where people were drinking excessively.
I thought it was pretty fucked up that anyone could even suggest that she could have prevented the situation or known that there was an increased chance of it happening.
I know I don't personally think of getting raped at parties.
Guess going to parties is stupid or something.
That said, I think the line has gotten a bit blurred between the original comic and the response. I don't think the original comic significantly contributed to that situation. I understand why some people might, and they are welcome to their opinion, and I realize that they might say that my disagreement means that I help perpetuate that situation, and I'm truly sorry they feel that way. But I've said it before, and I'll repeat, I did not find the original comic offensive.
The second comic was directed specifically at people who were offended by the original, some of whom were very open about the fact that their offense stemmed from being rape survivors, and it then included language that trivialized rape. Trivializing rape in a comment direct towards rape survivors most certainly does contribute to women feeling unsafe. To tell a rape survivor, in a mocking tone, that you "hate rapers and all the rapes they do" is, frankly, unfathomably classless and cruel, and goes a long way towards perpetuating the stereotype of rape survivors as crazy hysterics.
And, as has been stated, this isn't outrage on my part. It's deep disappointment.
And that really sucks. I don't know why women have to fear things that men don't. I could guess why, but all my guesses involve stereotypes, so I'll avoid saying them.
Wiki also says that the term originated as "rape-supportive" culture in 1992.
I'd add that rape culture is one part of a culture of violence that fetishizes/normalizes/excuses/minimizes the impact of/encourages violence.
Symptoms include the fact that the majority of college-aged men who have, by their own admission, committed actions that fit the legal definition of rape do not believe that what they've done is rape (I have posted a citation from a peer-reviewed journal. it's way back in the thread and if anyone's interested go back and read the whole thread, i don't remember what page it's on); widespread buying into rape myths like women often lie and say they were raped when they had consensual sex, women who wear revealing clothing are at least partially responsible for their own rapes, etc. (I also cited a journal study on this one); that prison rape is widely considered to be par for the course, especially if the prisoner is a sex offender; that people believe men can't be raped by women for whatever reason (such as the idea that men always want sex or that they wouldn't be able to get it up if they weren't into it); that rape prevention campaigns have by and large been about potential victims preventing rape rather than targeting bystanders or rapists (though that's changing now); comments like "I'd rape her," which incidentally have come up on this particular forum (not this thread obviously), regardless of whether they're "jokes" or not; the casual use of the term rape to mean things other than rape, such as when XBL idiots say "we're getting totally raped this game" or whatever; and the fact that a huge proportion of rape victims/survivors are afraid or reluctant to report their rapes. Among other things.
Agree completely.
I don't think anyone is trying to say that ALL rape is preventable by the victim. In that situation, there was little the victim could have done outside of not going to the party and, no, I don't think that people should feel like they can't go to parties.
That situation sucks and situations like it suck. It doesn't mean that you throw caution to the wind though. I agree that it would be nice to not have to feel like we sometimes need to take caution. It would be nice if under no circumstances no one was raped. That's just not the world we currently live in. We have to be careful sometimes. Your friend in your story is not the type of person or situation that anyone is talking about, but if anyone is saying that people who go to frat parties are asking for trouble then they are jerks.
See, I don't disagree with any of that.
I think what we see in response to that though is the same sort of outrage you get when you talk about white privilege. No one wants to think they are supporting or benefiting from something so horrible. What they need to realize is that it isn't about THEM but about what we as a society collectively engage in, and then work to minimize that.
Jokes about rape do not support rapists, just as jokes about hating mother-in laws or stereotypes do not encourage people to hate their families or somehow become racist.
American culture does not encourage rape. Anyone who thinks that is a complete goose.
I'm not quite sure I understand the last sentence. People are murdered in this country all the time. Jokes are made about murder. Entire TV shows are based around it. And I'm pretty those affected by murder never quite fully heal from it in their lifetimes, nor do all of them receive what they would consider justice. But I never hear the phrase "murder culture" thrown around by people. Probably because it's silly sounding phrase that is pretty much impossible to have a discussion with.
I just think that if we're going to actually have an intelligent discussion about something, we should be working with words and phrase that A) Have a definition we all understand and
No one is saying don't take precautions, what everyone is saying is that rape isn't preventable. And therefore blaming the victim for being raped is just ridiculous. Nuns can be raped the same as prostitutes and both are blameless for the attack.
So we're not disagreeing--we're just misreading each other. Or, rather, for my part, I'm probably ranting without thinking and misspeaking, which sounds about right.
Yup...there you go.
You can't even get most of the people complaining to even tell you what they want. No shirts about characters that were referenced to be involved in rape? No comics about rape unless it shows rape as being really bad and the joke isn't actually about the rape? No comics about rape at all? Or, no one should ever say the word rape unless a psychologist is present and leading a discussion.
People like to joke/talk/discuss things that have power. The N-word, saying retarded, using the terminology of murder, rape, disease, hardships etc. If you have been victimized, I am truly sorry, however you should come to terms with the fact that people might bring those acts up in the future.
You reduce your chance of being raped if you avoid taking drinks offered by strangers, for example.
Rigorous Scholarship
Hell, the correct response to the comic was not to complain about the use of rape, but to comment on the fact that the fact that they were being raped by dickwolves was perceived as being VASTLY worse than them being say, killed by dickwolves, or having their organs harvested for meat to build bone homes for evil dudes. Even if they guy had said 'If I'm not saved the dickwolves will also kidnap my children and put them to work in salt mines!' the situation would still not be perceived as as bad as the person being raped. The point of the comic is to have the center panel show the worst possible thing that could happen, then the 'hero' ignoring it because he has fulfilled his quota.
Honestly, the comic doesn't perpetrate a rape culture. It shows how succesful the anti-rape culture (which is 100% right) has been in making society perceive rape as bad.
And that will prevent you from being raped?
Prevent, no--help, yes.
We should be looking at the rapist. As far as I'm concerned, the victim is just that: a victim and has little bearing on the act of rape since it is being forced upon them. I don't care if they're drugged or drunk or naked - it's not an invitation (and I'm sure everyone agrees about that).
So let's just focus on the rapist...kay?
Sure. How would you propose we stop rapists from raping?
We have no idea who Jerry and Mike are addressing or even if they are addressing anybody at all specifically. I assume they're talking to certain emailers or some of the inflammatory bloggers that have been mentioned earlier. Could some of them be rape survivors? It's possible. Are Jerry and Mike addressing them on that level? I doubt it. They're likely addressing them on their outrage to the Dickwolves comic.
Their goal is to be funny. Maybe they thought that would just make a funny comic strip because that's what they do. They got these outraged emails, and thought that making a comment on being outraged about a PA strip would be funny. If they failed to be funny to you, that's OK. It's OK if you were offended by it as well. Assuming their intent is less OK.
Assuming they're taking time to go out of their way to basically stick it to rape survivors is just casting aspersions.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
Rigorous Scholarship
What if, and hear me out here... every time we saw a guy hand someone a drink, we shot him?
No, They are trying to put it in as a clear language as possible for morons who are so stupid they thought that the first comic was about rape-apologizing.
Yup. I did a little searching and found one of those websites where people put there own design and someone did a Dickwolves shirt. I payed $30 for one. The only thing that makes me sad is knowing that it isn't an official one.
This brings up a good point. If the crazy people started saying that that is supporting rape and anyone who wears it is a rape-apologist, would that all of a sudden mean that G&T are being dicks for putting the shirt out? Would they be dicks if they left it up? Would people be shout that they should choose the better-man route and take them down? No? Well then why all the noise over this?
Are they being dicks and insensitive to victims of violence and not choosing the high rode with comics like these?
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/6/6/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/1/5/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/14/
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/6/22/ - This one involves RAPE!!!!!!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/26/ - This one shows them to be baby-killing-apologists!!!!!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/12/12/ - Another comic about rape!!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/4/16/ - A comic about a game about raping women where Gabe seems to think it's ok to do an advertisement for the game company!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/5/12/ - Oh look, another comic with a rape joke!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/11/19/ - More rape-apologizing!! Even called, "Reach Out and Touch Someone With Your Steel Penis"!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/8/29/ - Here they trivialize pedophelia!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/10/1/ - Here they make it look like Tycho is a pedophile! And there are many many more pedo joke strips!
Oh the humanity! It's far worse than we originally thought. So many jokes about raping and pedophiles!
Surely the bigger-man thing to do would be to just ignore him right, instead of showing him to be the loon bat that he is?
I big NO! It has nothing to do with men thinking that rape is socially acceptable. Just like it's almost never about actual sex. It is things like of that that helps to hurt the progress of stopping rape. It has to do with domination.
I highly doubt that "a good number" is the correct choice of words more. More something like like, an extremely small fraction of a percent, but vocal and get attention because what they say is crazy, group.
Some have said that they need to apologize, that they didn't mean to be offensive, yadayadayada. I say no. You only apologize to people who have the ability to reason. These people don't and the only way to deal with them is one, completely ignore them but wheres the fun in that? Or two, put them down as hard as possible. I believe option two is far better, especially when that person is someone who thinks it's ok to go around accusing someone of being a rape-apologist.
I think that saying to someone 'You shouldn't really take drinks from strangers' is like other safety advice. It doesn't condone the consequences of not following it, but it does say that if you want to be safer there are steps you can take.
For example, I might give this advice to a guy 'If walking behind a girl you don't know at night, either speed up and walk past her, or stop and wait for her to walk ahead' This doesn't mean I think he is a rapist, it just says that he can be considerate of the feelings of others.
Or, I might say to a barman 'If someone buys a drink for a girl at the bar, give her the drink yourself and tell her who it is from, don't give it to the guy and have her give it to him', again I'm not blaming the barman, I'm just saying there are steps we can take to make things safer for people.
I don't approve of pedestrians being run over, but I still think you should be careful even in a crosswalk.
I wish we could get off this subject as it is really a whole other topic waiting to happen but "don't take drinks from strangers" is good gender-neutral advice while "don't dress provocatively" is constructed entirely for one gender and has been pointed out only a page or two ago doesn't even have supporting evidence.
Have people been roofied and raped? Yes. Proven fact. Does wearing a short skirt provoke rape? Totally unproven.
Well of course it has risk. But just because the overall majority of rape cases recorded shows that this would be a 1% rape situation (at large) doesn't mean going into the situation that it doesn't carry a 100% rape possibility. But, statistically, after all is said and done, accounting for your single rape in the greater scheme of things would put it into the 1%, because outside of your weird ass example the real world numbers still apply.
That still doesn't mean you should run into the middle of a minefield because the majority of the mines are on the left side and you think you can stick to the right side.
Wow, so that website doesn't actually post a link to the actual bill or post it's actual contents. This is what typical anti-freedom people do. You see it all the time in people who post how violent video games make people violent, D&D make people devil worshipers, and gun ownership causes blood in the streets. They never post the real stats, just there interpretation of the stats.
I'm sorry, did you say anti-freedom?
Like, not ironically?
Oh, and by the way, every website does that. Even the... uh... pro-freedom? ones do. I've never seen Foxnews.com post a bill in its entirety, or even provide a link to one.
Not so. A great many concepts in social science have very precise, measured meanings. Religiosity, to take an example I'm familiar with, is a measure of how devout someone is, measured by a regression over like four or five different statistics. Frankly, I find it incredibly difficult to believe there's been any quantitative research of note into "rape culture."
Now, it is still good advice, but I read your comment like you think it would be a simple matter for women to change their behavior and prevent a good chunk of all rapes. And that is just flat out false.
I think a good place to start is frank and honest recognition of the fact that any one of us could, in fact, be a rapist, and that quite probably some of us are. That's a really hard thing to admit, because we've built this edifice of rationalization that all rapists are monsters, and nobody wants to think of themselves as a monster. So maybe we have to dial that back a bit, and recognize that rape is a terrible thing, but it often happens because people feel a sense of entitlement to another person's body, and that sense of entitlement overrides their empathy and better judgment, not because that person is demented or sadistic or especially cruel in general.
Would there normally be irony to be had? What does Fox News, mostly filled with RINOs, have to do with anything?