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[World of Tanks] Our track is broken! Get out and push!

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Posts

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    I just got through my 38NA thanks to pents, and thank god. That tank is one of the biggest pieces of crap. I have no idea why they put a T4 light tank in the tree that leads to both of the German heavy trees in place of the PZ3 which is actually a pretty decent T4.

    In other news, the M6 is a massive pile of crap, but the new LB-1 gun on the T-44 is awesome! I can't wait for the January tourney!

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Nothing to see here.

    Simpsonia on
  • ZebukielZebukiel Registered User regular
    I just recently introduced to the community, I think its awesome the wide range of games PA crew plays. =) I play WoT from time to time, Was always interested in Clan wars, Do you guys do any Clan warring?

    Even if not, playing with people you know is always awesome.

    Basically just stopping in to say hi! =P

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    I just had to post this shot since it's too awesome for words.

    afY2N.jpg

  • BastableBastable Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    olol 10 kills baby.

    I'm guessing the rest of the team wandered around shooting each other or getting stuck on geometry.

    Bastable on
    Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
    "I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2011
    Some actually killed each other!

    EDIT - also, sniper on his arty.

    A duck! on
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Bit the bullet and grabbed an IS-3. Figured I should have an alternate tier 8, and I didn't love the IS as a tier 7 to really want to keep it. Got a reaper streak in my first game and still managed to lose money. Gotta love this game sometimes ... =_=

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Yeah, getting Sniper on a T7 arty blew my mind. Especially given that I only went 10 for 11 and nobody on either side, even in T8,9 or 10's was able to beat that...

    Arctic, the IS-3 is a very good T8, and should be much better now with the armor changes, but yeah, without premium you will probably run into credit issues.

  • scarescare Registered User regular
    I was able to break even on the IS-3 without premium using the BL-9. I was negative while using the 175mm penetration guns. Of course, I was a worse player then too.

    mister_fej.png
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    FYI, Simp, I had premium during that match. <_<
    I don't even understand it, mathematically. I got 4k XP (on a 5x win, but still, that's more than 800 normal), and only got 15k credits. Repairs and ammo came out to around 17k. Just bizarre ...
    Glad I can help contribute more though. Or, you know, will be able to once it's upgraded appropriately.

  • mccartmccart Registered User regular
    I'm curious if you guys have any suggestions on how to be more helpful on tanks like the m5-Stuart or the A-20. Typically what I try to do is stay a bit ahead of the higher tier tanks on my team and try to find things for them to shoot, but usually find myself dying before a few minutes have passed in the battle. I've also tried waiting some time then attempting to scoot through the back to discover their artillery which is decent for getting some experience but doesn't often seem to yield any real benefit for my team. Sometimes I can tag their artillery once or twice and maybe every now and then I'll kill one, but so far that is pretty rare.

    Also, what equipment do you guys like on your tank destroyers? I have been running a net, rammer, and the telescopic binoculars on my su-100 but was thinking of getting vents hoping for slightly faster reloads and perhaps more speed.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I use those, mostly because rammers are good on all tanks (even my freakishly-fast firing T-34-57 has one), and telescoping binoculars and nets can be moved between tanks (none of that "permanently mounted except with gold" bullshit).

    A net is pretty good on a TD, I want to say, though a lot of people even recommend them on mediums (and others claim they're not worth a shit on them). The SU-100 makes good speed for a Tier 6 TD (at least it feels that way when I drive it). Vents increasing reload rate sounds good, but I think that only works up to a point (I could be wrong though).

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Double post whammy:

    Got my first heavy tank since the beta ended. So....would anyone be kind enough to rank the IS's gun's from worse to best? Right now, I only have the two 85 mm guns (seems I sold the 100 mm with my T-44 way, way back when I earned my T-54). Money is tight, since I'm no longer on premium either and just bought a Jagdtiger.

    Also, once again, kicked ass in our Type 59s with Noquar--six wins in a row (for me personally).

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • scarescare Registered User regular
    1) Final 122mm
    2) D10T
    3) second 85mm
    4) the rest

    The high alpha of the 122mm is actually a good way to scare off tanks from charging at you.

    mister_fej.png
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    So...that's best to worst, right?

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Yeah, I would say that the IS shouldn't be using any other gun other than some variant of the 122. It doesn't have the armor to go face to face with the other T7s (though this was before the normalization changes, but I can't imagine it fairing a lot better now), so you really need the alpha capabilities of a 122 on it.

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    That statement surprises me. The 100mm has the same penetration as the 122s but with half the reload speed. It actually has a higher DPS than the first 122, and is comparable to the 2nd. It's kind of a preference as to whether or not you want more chances to penetrate, or just risk big hits.
    In contrast though, the ammo for the 122 costs SIGNIFICANTLY more than the 100mm, so you're actually making money faster that way. I used the 100mm all through my IS.

    Then again, this comes from the guy who played his T-44 through with the 85mm. I have a large preference to reliable damage output to alpha strikes (and as such, another reason I prefer medium tanks all the time).

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    From what you're saying, Arctic, sounds like the difference between the long 8.8 and the 10.5 on the Jagdpanther (though the 8.8 actually has very slightly better penetration and notably better accuracy--which might be true about the 100 mm versus the 122 mm).

    From a cost standpoint, and given that I'm still too bankrupt to retrain my KV-13 crews (which I'll remedy, but money will still be tight), the disadvantages of the 122 really weigh heavily. Of course, someone to whom every IS victory (much less lost) costing money, no matter how many tanks you knock out, doesn't matter would feel differently.

    But, at the same time, I haven't used the better 122 before. So I'm just analyzing it from what I know of Tier 7 TDs.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    I know I'll probably open up a can of worms by saying this, but DPS guns are crap in most scenarios. And even more so when it comes to heavy tanks. No heavy is fast enough or maneuverable enough to make them work. The D-10T reloads fast enough that you're peaking out constantly to take a shot, it kinda works on mediums because they have the speed to get to side shots, and pull in and out much faster. But with the IS you're going to get shot (probably multiple times) every time you stick your nose out, you better make it count.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Entirely possible (though an exception would be some TDs, in which volume of fire is quite important, and gets more important the less you can run around).

    Of course, in that same vein, accurate fire beats inaccurate fire every time. No exceptions. It's that simple. Your alpha doesn't matter shit if you can't put the rounds on the target, and accurate fire means you will be putting more rounds on target even of ROF is the same. Knowing where to hit a tank (and being able to hit a particular part of a tank) has only increased in importance with the changes in effectiveness of HE fire.

    But, it's a small difference (0.03, if I'm not mistaken), relatively speaking. So it could outweighed by a greater one. Hence why I wanted to get a consensus of sorts on the IS guns.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • FarleymanFarleyman Registered User regular
    Interesting information, guys. Looking at the guns myself I'm inclined to go with Scare for myself when I eventually get round to using my IS. The 100mm D10T seems like a good deal until you can use the second 122mm, mostly because I suspect the D10T fires at the slower 7 rpm rather than the 8.5 rpm, which I assume is for the T-44? If I'm right, that extra round and a half or so per minute over the second 122mm isn't really enough of a bonus in my view. Certainly it makes the D10T better than the first 122mm you can get, though.

    steam_sig.png
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Simpsonia wrote:
    I know I'll probably open up a can of worms by saying this, but DPS guns are crap in most scenarios. And even more so when it comes to heavy tanks. No heavy is fast enough or maneuverable enough to make them work. The D-10T reloads fast enough that you're peaking out constantly to take a shot, it kinda works on mediums because they have the speed to get to side shots, and pull in and out much faster. But with the IS you're going to get shot (probably multiple times) every time you stick your nose out, you better make it count.

    Interesting and valid point, although it is the IS we're talking about, which is somewhat nimble as far as heavy tanks go. Even so, I think once again this hallmarks exactly how much it's a preference thing. I tried out the 2nd 122 before I sold my IS and noticed only a few things: Ammo cost me a lot more every round, and most tanks I shot at I left with <10% HP (which meant an awful trade on killing them, between reload and expending another shell).

    All that said, the IS somehow always made more money and XP than I could figure out, since I often caused more damage with the same guns on my mediums, but got less payoff for it. The 80k XP to get the IS-3 is also comically low, so you burn through that tank quite quickly even without premium.

  • SupraluminalSupraluminal Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    I played the IS with the 100mm D-10T exclusively during the beta and enjoyed it. I fond that it worked reasonably well as a kind of a heavy-medium hybrid, being relatively maneuverable but poorly armored for a heavy tank.

    Post-launch I began using the top 122mm and favoring a more peekaboo-based style. On balance I think it's slightly more effective in that role, but the vastly higher ammo cost does hurt if you're counting credits. I would suggest sticking to the D-10T in that case.

    Supraluminal on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Simpsonia wrote:
    I know I'll probably open up a can of worms by saying this, but DPS guns are crap in most scenarios. And even more so when it comes to heavy tanks. No heavy is fast enough or maneuverable enough to make them work. The D-10T reloads fast enough that you're peaking out constantly to take a shot, it kinda works on mediums because they have the speed to get to side shots, and pull in and out much faster. But with the IS you're going to get shot (probably multiple times) every time you stick your nose out, you better make it count.

    Interesting and valid point, although it is the IS we're talking about, which is somewhat nimble as far as heavy tanks go. Even so, I think once again this hallmarks exactly how much it's a preference thing. I tried out the 2nd 122 before I sold my IS and noticed only a few things: Ammo cost me a lot more every round, and most tanks I shot at I left with <10% HP (which meant an awful trade on killing them, between reload and expending another shell).

    All that said, the IS somehow always made more money and XP than I could figure out, since I often caused more damage with the same guns on my mediums, but got less payoff for it. The 80k XP to get the IS-3 is also comically low, so you burn through that tank quite quickly even without premium.

    I don't expect to get an IS-3 any time soon (or even at all), since heavy tanks are kind of a scary place for me personally (I'd much rather get a Panther, frankly). I only have an IS because of the T-34-85's lead to the KV-13. And money IS extremely important, as is accuracy (thanks to WoT's tendency to model so-called 'elite' crews as missing shots decidedly non-elite crews would fucking make, at often short distances in real life, while they overmodel everything, particularly engine power).

    It's a dilemma. I'm not writing off alpha by any means, but it's one factor among many.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited December 2011
    Synthesis wrote:
    Entirely possible (though an exception would be some TDs, in which volume of fire is quite important, and gets more important the less you can run around).

    Of course, in that same vein, accurate fire beats inaccurate fire every time. No exceptions. It's that simple. Your alpha doesn't matter shit if you can't put the rounds on the target, and accurate fire means you will be putting more rounds on target even of ROF is the same. Knowing where to hit a tank (and being able to hit a particular part of a tank) has only increased in importance with the changes in effectiveness of HE fire.

    But, it's a small difference (0.03, if I'm not mistaken), relatively speaking. So it could outweighed by a greater one. Hence why I wanted to get a consensus of sorts on the IS guns.

    A good playground for this theory is Tier 9 heavies. The IS-4 has bad accuracy, but great pen. The E75 and Ausf have bad pen, but better accuracy. The T34 has bad accuracy and penetration, but a really good rate of fire and the highest theoretical DPS. I own all three and the T34 does DEMONSTRABLY less damage. The IS4 averages 2564, the E75 2427* and the T34 is 2322, and the E75 was ground up from stock while the other two started with the top gun. If it had started with the 128 it would easily be at or higher the IS4 (E75 is soooo boss). Even WITH that handicap it outpaces the T34, and my just IS4 destroys it. Even worse, the T34's win rate is ahead of the E75's, while its survival rate is only slightly behind, so I can't blame it on losing/being dead all the time.

    I think just about everyone will say that it's due to the fact that it's bolted onto a bad tank, but I also did the best in Tier 8 with the T32, and I'm extremely well-adapted to the American playstyle. The gun just sucks. If I have to try to hit the front of an IS4 from over 200 yards I am not counting on actually doing damage, where I would with an E75. Long range against an armored target is a fucking joke. A lot of this game is based around letting your enemy shoot you only when you want them to, so if you and an IS4 are trading shots the DPS gun is going to lose, and sometimes there's nothing you can do to turn that tide.

    This also comes to bear with TDs. One of the important assets for TDs is camo, and the guy that shoots less is going to be able to leverage that asset better. The JagTiger has like 11% higher DPS than the Object with nearly the same penetration and a much higher accuracy (.05!), but most players will agree about which one they fear more.

    EDIT - Sorry, the point of all this is that DPS and sometimes accuracy are not the end-all-be-all. The S70 does fine for being accurate, and the 128 does just fine for having the lowest DPS. Accuracy also starts to take a backseat if you're talking tanks that are meant to be flankers, because when shooting on the broadsides it doesn't matter as much where you hit. The IS is largely a broadside tank, since it has speed and really isn't built to get a lot of Steel Walls.

    A duck! on
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    In other news, it turns out the Type 59 is a pretty decent tank:

    6bMkF.jpg

  • AvynteAvynte Registered User regular
    Type 59 is definitely my go to tank just to dick around with. Never had a bad matchmaker with it yet.

    ECOED.jpg
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    A duck! wrote:
    This also comes to bear with TDs. One of the important assets for TDs is camo, and the guy that shoots less is going to be able to leverage that asset better. The JagTiger has like 11% higher DPS than the Object with nearly the same penetration and a much higher accuracy (.05!), but most players will agree about which one they fear more.

    Out of curiosity, which one am I supposed to fear more? Because I don't tend to give two sh!ts about Jagdtigers, but have died an awful lot more often to those Objects.

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    A duck! wrote:
    This also comes to bear with TDs. One of the important assets for TDs is camo, and the guy that shoots less is going to be able to leverage that asset better. The JagTiger has like 11% higher DPS than the Object with nearly the same penetration and a much higher accuracy (.05!), but most players will agree about which one they fear more.

    Out of curiosity, which one am I supposed to fear more? Because I don't tend to give two sh!ts about Jagdtigers, but have died an awful lot more often to those Objects.

    You're supposed to be afraid of Objects. Fewer shots while still having big fuck you damage keeps them in camo more.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The Type 59 isn't horrible? Shocking!

    Again, I tip my hat to Noquar for being an awesome wolfpack-mate in his.

    I prefer fast TDs for the ability to relocate (which makes alpha more important on maps with particular positions I like to run and relocate from, with long ranges available to me). That definitely shifts with the Jadgtiger, which is lolFerdinandtall, and accordingly harder to hide. Even with the best cover, people can certainly blind fire at you, and there are a decent number of chances you'll have to stand and fight. Part of that is my TD play style at Tier 9--even in something as big as the Jagdtiger, on maps I dislike, I try to avoid camping in one particular spot for artillery reasons and the belief I can do my best actively supporting a flank (from way, way behind at Tier 9 TD speeds, usually) with what movement I have. So I'm sacrificing stealth on occasions. NOT always the situation, but frequently--definitely the case on the new maps, barring the Swamp one.

    Which is another edge the Objects and T95 have on it, being much, much smaller. Though weirdly, I'm much more afraid of Jagdtigers then Objects and T95s simply as a primarily TD and medium driver (I run into more T95s than either). They're all pretty scary though.

    DPS and accuracy aren't end alls, but, as such, neither is damage per shot (God, I hate calling it alpha, I guess that's what I get for years of playing MechWarrior). I do like having the option to stand and fight IF I think I can buy a flanking group time to either get in position, or an edge in the initial encounter with the defenders or another flanking group, and that may mean becoming visible and standing and fighting. The fact that I enjoy myself a lot while doing it is also another factor.

    On the bright side, I've yet to be killed by SPG fire in the Jagdtiger, thanks to this (only 10 battles in though). It'll happen, but that in of itself is impressive (and god knows you can tell they're trying really hard to do it). One good thing to come of it. I'm actually quite happy with the Jagdtiger (I'd use it more if I weren't broke), especially the fact that it uses a Jagdpanther final engine as an upgrade, so I'm not stuck with stock from the beginning. I wouldn't claim it's fast by a long shot, but faster than the Ferdinand and SU-152 starting out (since I never researched the KV-1).

    And that's with the Ferdinand final gun. The final one's a long way off, but this is doing reasonably.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • BastableBastable Registered User regular
    It's early days yet but the tigger P is a monstrous tank. 3 IS3 had problems penetrating at oblique angles. Rolling along with Artic and Scare is hilarious as half the enemy team dropped Ap and HE on me while I rolled forward shooting and Scare picked up the final blows.

    The new 8,8cm gun damage is quite useful too. That the stats change Nerf rof in favor of alpha would indicate that alpha is more useful than a high rof gun on a heavy.

    Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
    "I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tiger P is still mechanically superior in every way to the historic Tiger I--with the possible exception of maneuverability.

    Kind of a bummer, as I do plan to get a Tiger I at some point, larger because it's a goddamn Tiger I.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • BastableBastable Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Synthesis wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tiger P is still mechanically superior in every way to the historic Tiger I--with the possible exception of maneuverability.

    Kind of a bummer, as I do plan to get a Tiger I at some point, larger because it's a goddamn Tiger I.

    Well it's one of those things, the panther was a superior paper tank too. But wartime production means: weak final drive due to poor quality metals in gears, 44 onward spalling/cracking/brittle Armour. Inflammable liquids in the turret hydraulics as opposed to the safer electrical wiring of PIV and IIIs and H Tiger.

    The P Tiger would have been even more complicated and relied on non extent (in Germany) copper for the turret.

    Wa pruf 6 (OKH office in charge of tank procurement) also placed great emphasis on selecting tanks with complicated torsion bars that gave superior flotation, ride, speed, and better gun stablity. The real reason the DB panther lost the selection to the MAN Panther and really one of the factors why the H tiger was selected over the P tiger.

    You can see this impulse in Speilburgers 1970s works on the Panther (and Jentz's in the 90s) when discussing reasons for selection. Also reading in between the lines the engineers and officers of Wa Pruf 6 (42-44) hated the PIV because it lacked a torsion bar suspension and the reason for embarking on failed experiments with hydro static PIV's to fix that irritation.

    Bastable on
    Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
    "I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."

  • BastableBastable Registered User regular
    Tigger P is unreasonable, or as my crew says "muri muri."

    Tigger%20P%20is%20Muri%20Muri.jpg

    Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
    "I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."

  • lostprophetlostprophet Registered User
    lolwtf. You even paid to change their names? Haha

    Steam: macg1991
    wotuserbar01.jpg: macg1991
    Check out the Penny Arcade World of Tanks thread to join us in some fun times.
  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Bast, you're off the team.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    You know, for a while, I thought you'd actually gone in an altered the crew art assets Bast, rather than just used photoshop on a screencap.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • ShapeshifterShapeshifter Pants Optioanl Registered User regular
    finally got my IS-4 unlocked.

    steam_sig.png
  • lostprophetlostprophet Registered User
    edited January 2012
    Synthesis wrote:
    You know, for a while, I thought you'd actually gone in an altered the crew art assets Bast, rather than just used photoshop on a screencap.

    Nope, I think he actually did. He was all gloating last night about how he was downloading an anime voice pack for his tank crews to have some lolz. I'm starting to think now that Bastable truly is history's greatest monster. Burn Him! :bz

    lostprophet on
    Steam: macg1991
    wotuserbar01.jpg: macg1991
    Check out the Penny Arcade World of Tanks thread to join us in some fun times.
This discussion has been closed.