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Kyanbu's Concepts and artwork thread

KyanbuKyanbu Digital ArtistRegistered User regular
edited June 2011 in Artist's Corner
A thread containing artwork and concepts for all of my projects related to D-Universe.

I'm working on a webcomic (one of many projects). This ones set in D-Universe around the same time as Mischief Knights (my current project), called Avalice Assassin. This comic is set to crop up second to third quarter 2011. It will be a web comic, Black White, Traditional with Digital Touch up. Updated once every 9 days.

This thread will be where I post the concept designs for this Comic. which include Vehicles, Characters and Locations. As well as info on the comic, setting, and characters. Please fill free to make suggestions or critics on character designs. I want to make sure this comic starts off strong design wise.


About Avalice Assassin:

D-Universe, Dash Series, Avalice Assassin [PG-13]

[Takes place during the events of Mischief Knights]
After finishing her training to become a Avalice Knight, Avaleese Strum (a young ani-human Wolf women) gets accused of assassinating the late king of Avalice Kingdom in Alterra on her graduation night. In an attempt to clear her name, Avaleese goes on the run, accompanied by Wallace Erde (a merchant), Sir Ricardo Taifun (a Avalice Knight 10th Rank), and Desiree Nacht (a Bandit). Searching to discover the corporate behind the assassination, and bring them to justice. Forced to live a life as a fugitive being chased by the very Knights she wanted to join. [Despite starring only a few Characters from Mischief Knights and taking places in a different part of Alterra. This Comic is considered a part of Dash Series due to its tie in with the main story. Mainly Mischief Knights’s story.]


Cast List: This is still being worked on.

Main Character(s):
Avalesse Sturm (The Ex-Avalice Knight 12th Rank) (Female)
Wallace Erde (The Mercant) (Male)
Sir Ricardo Taifun (The Avalice Knight 10th Rank) (Male)
Desiree Nacht (The Bandit) (Female)

Support Character(s):
Jettah Rodgers (Mischief Knights Character!)
Pandora Rox (Friend of Wallace) (Mischief Knights Character!)
Samantha Sturm (Avalesse’s Mother)
Vin Sturm (Avalesse’s Father)
The Darkest Night Thief Guild
The King of Avalice Kingdom
???
???
???
???

Antagonist Character(s):
Duke Gespenst S. Kreuz (Avalice Knight 1st Rank) (Male)
Sir Siegreich B. Lanze (Avalice Knight 5th Rank) (Male)
Sir Zwolf A. Stunde (Avalice Knight 6th Rank) (Male)
Sir Qualm G. Glorious (Avalice Knight 2nd Rank) (Female)
Sir Schwarza M. Verzweifeln (Avalice Knight 3rd Rank) (Female)
Sir Luft V. Zwei (Avalice Knight 7th Rank) (Female)
(Avalice Knight 11th Rank) (Male) (Former friend of Avalesse and Ricardo)
The Avalice ZERO Knights (Elite Grunt Soldiers)
The Avalice Soldiers (Mooks)
Various Criminals, Murders, Pirates
Dr. Jackal (Mischief Knights Character!)
???
???
???
???

Important Info Regarding design direction:
Since this is set in the same Universe, same planet as Mischief Knights, The Cast will consist of Humans, Demons, Ani-Humans, ect.

How you can help?:
Name ideas, plot suggestions, things not to do when making a web comic, tips and tricks, Software/Hardware suggestions and tips, these are different ways you can help this project. Settings much like Mischief Knights will be Fantasy Semi futuristic (Fantasy based 20 minutes into the future).


Character Concept Designs: Please not that all Character Designs shown here are not final designs. They will change countless times before the final product in 2014.

Avaleese Strum Concept designs
AvalesseStrumconceptdesignFlatColorRef-1.jpg

AvaleeseSturmConceptDesign2FlatColor.jpg

Desiree Nacht Concept Design(s)
NachtDunkelConceptdesign2Flatcolor.jpg

Kyanbu on
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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Not to sound a bit crass but, why is there so much text in this thread?

    MagicToaster on
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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Okay, forgive me if this sounds harsh... It probably will, but I assure you I mean well.

    You've got more text in that OP and the link you gave than the killer's journals in Se7en...

    I followed the link to your deviant art and the only way I could actually find your art was to click to view your full profile, go to gallery, and browse. The link you gave was just page after page after page of some universe you're creating.

    All of the stuff you're writing doesn't really need to be here. It needs to be in the writer's block, they can critique that over there. It looks like you've got a HUGE universe you're trying to build though, so I will give this advice. You need to SLOW DOWN desperately. You've got what looked like about 100+ pages of episodes, character bios, storylines, settings, histories you've created, etc. From an artistic and storytelling standpoint you've got way too much stuff to be able to focus any necessary attention to one specific part that needs it.

    Try to narrow your story down to a small cast of characters, who have a specific job. (we don't need to know that they're level four knights and in 30 years they can be level 40 knights if they go through the seven trials of the four kingdoms etc etc etc.) Focus on the simple hard fact of a small story and add stuff when you need to. Look at Final Fantasy for reference, it always starts with a small group in a small town and balloons from there. Take the same approach with your art. Don't try to have everything all at once before you get started. If you try to keep creating the perfect world before you start your comic, you're never going to start your comic.

    Now about the art.

    Based off of the three pieces of art you've put here and the page after page on your site, all I can say is you need to draw more dudes. You have six pages of demon cat girls in suggestive poses holding swords, and that's cool, but it's six pages of nothing but half naked demon cat girls in suggestive poses. It's said repeatedly here, and was said to me several times, to draw from life, draw from everything around you and work on basic shape and anatomy. You need to draw vases, apples, trees, kids, dogs, men, women, EVERYTHING.

    Your basic anatomy isn't really flawed and your line work is pretty good as well. Your shading could use a little work. Everything you've drawn, when coupled with the fonts and color wheels and everything else just kind of makes the images look really static.

    You've got a hell of an eye for costume design. I'll give you that hands down. You're very, very good at drawing clothing.

    Post some more stuff, but just characters, and sketches, not color wheels for different clothing choices, or really hard to read logos for the comic, or long explanations on how they arrived to the forums from the grand world of wherever.

    Keep it up!

    amateurhour on
    are YOU on the beer list?
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    FugitiveFugitive Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Your basic anatomy isn't really flawed and your line work is pretty good as well. Your shading could use a little work.

    You've got a hell of an eye for costume design. I'll give you that hands down. You're very, very good at drawing clothing.

    Going to respectfully disagree with both of these. Your necks range from stubby (second Avaleese) to freakishly long (first avaleese). I have no idea what's happening with Desiree's chest. Are those... tattoos? Her clavicles? If they're the latter, they are popping with extraordinary definition, and their shape indicate that you haven't bothered to investigate what a clavicle actually looks like. The kneecaps are swollen to roughly fist-sized, when in actuality the most prominent bone in the knee is about the size of a silver dollar.

    The clothing design is promising, in that there appears to be some variety. I'm not sure why no one in this universe seems capable of hiding their stitching. I also don't really understand why or even how anyone could wear tight leather straps directly over their breasts like that. I'm going to venture a guess that you haven't researched fabric folds, since Desiree's cloak is filled in with random squiggly lines that are probably meant to say "imagine there are folds here", when all they indicate is that the character is draped in a used condom.

    Desiree's knives don't make a lot of sense for what I'm assuming is an assassin character. Why is one of them forked? What purpose does that serve? Why is there a random little bit further down the blade? If she's supposed to be an assassin, slipping in under cover of darkness, why is she carrying a weapon that seems designed to make sure there is as much blood, gore, and evidence of her activity as possible? Not to mention the manifold increased likelihood that the blade could get snagged on something before it has a chance to do its job.

    The three points I'm trying to make are "research anatomy, research cloth and clothing, and research weapons/armor". If that's still evoking a tl;dr, then just "RESEARCH".

    You seem like you've been drawing a lot, maybe even consulting references, but your work reeks of an artist that has never actually looked at what he's referencing. Or maybe you just haven't chosen your references wisely, and mostly copy what you've seen in Final Fantasy or Heavy Metal. Or maybe a combination of the two. In any case, you haven't been paying attention, you haven't done the grunt work, and it shows.

    Fugitive on
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    KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    aside from the anatomy comments that have already been made. Simplify your line work/mark making.. You have a lot of odd details drawn out inside the silhouettes that are just plain distracting. Its not helping that you are using the same bold line weight everywhere. things that you want to emphasize, use a heavy line.


    Find a good comic/manga whatever you like and just copy it to learn better line weight and how to edit --include only the info necessary to communicate.

    Post the original with your copy to get further crits..


    Good luck with your project and studies.

    Kendeathwalker on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Thank you for the feedback.

    This thread has served it purpose.

    See you all in 3 years.

    Kyanbu on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You know what, fuck it I'm going to have someone else do the art for Avalice Assassin since I'm STILL not up to spec despite years of practice and won't be for another 3 years. -_-


    Got any good references I could call on?

    Oh and the launch date has been pushed back to Spring 2015.

    Kyanbu on
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    Why the fuck are you setting launch dates that far into the future for a personal project? Start simple and work to constantly improve.

    Tell a simple story involving 2-3 characters. Keep it short. If that goes well, do another and make it a little more elaborate. The idea of waiting for years until you're ready to unleash your epic on the world fully formed is ridiculous.

    DMAC on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    This spring was the date but I'm still not up to spec so finding an artist is my best option. I set everything to 2015 because finding one and getting a high enough pay to be able to pay them per page. Will take a good while.

    Besides after 5 years improving from crap to viewable and I'm still not at my goal level. If I started it now the story's impact would be lost and the design would just turn off readers do to it just not being as wowing as it needs to be for the day and age.

    My pathetic best:
    HappyEaster2011MikaStellarandValorieGaleCGDAver.png
    Ain't gonna cut it for my originally planned Spring 2011 launch.

    Kyanbu on
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    AlyceInWonderlandAlyceInWonderland Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't know if you actually read the PA comic, but go to their very first comic. It wasn't exactly what I would call good art, yet look at it now.

    AlyceInWonderland on
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    FugitiveFugitive Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Although a lot of that was Mike really investing himself in improving his craft in parallel.

    My question is, what's your pressure? Why are you pushing yourself to do this comic on some iron-clad time-table? It's probably not for a publisher's deadline, I'm assuming a bet was not made, and since you are pushing back deadlines I'm betting no bucket-lists are involved. Just take your time with your epic. Split your time between drawing catgirls (I'm assuming this is your fun-time drawing) and doing the boring stuff you absolutely have to do (studying and practicing fabric/anatomy/color theory).

    If you want to do your epic and it is just bursting out of your mind and you're thinking "I have to do this shit NOW, while it's still fresh!" then go for it. Too many projects are doomed to live out their lives in old journals and the head's of artists, in a perpetual development hell because the artist never quite feels like the iron is ready to strike.

    But don't make yourself do it because "I'll be a failure by some arbitrary imagined criteria if I don't!" Because then you aren't doing it for the love of your world, but out of stress. If you think you're doing it for the latter (which it sounds like, since you're thinking of opening the whole can of worms that is finding another creative person to collaborate with just so you can meet a deadline), then stop, take a breath, and take stock of your goals.

    Like DMAC said, tell another story first. Just write something small, populate it with a few characters, and use that as a testing ground. You can even make it loosely based in your world if you want. It doesn't have to be amazing, just tell a story in a visual media. Because making comics is hard. It is it's own beast with all kinds of nuances to learn and inane fuckups to make before you can make something presentable. Work those out on a smaller project and hone your craft.

    And looping back around to bringing in another artist on this: Don't. Just don't do it. This is your world and your world alone. This isn't some empty artiste statement here. If you bring in another artist, you are asking someone to come in and collaborate in the world-building process. But you sound like you already know what you want out of this world, so there's not much to collaborate on. At this point all you'd be looking for is a piece of software that you can feed commands to and will return a fully-formed artistic interpretation of those commands. Trust me, neither of you will leave that experience happily and having done anything productive. Also, most artists that would be better capable of realizing your world are going to want payment, and you won't be able to provide it.

    Fugitive on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm aware of that. Still going to look for an artist to take up this.

    Kyanbu on
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    SonicSonic Absentee Landlord Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Someone should lock this thread before anyone else wastes their time and effort trying to give this guy good advice.

    Sonic on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Fugitive wrote: »
    Although a lot of that was Mike really investing himself in improving his craft in parallel.

    My question is, what's your pressure? Why are you pushing yourself to do this comic on some iron-clad time-table? It's probably not for a publisher's deadline, I'm assuming a bet was not made, and since you are pushing back deadlines I'm betting no bucket-lists are involved. Just take your time with your epic. Split your time between drawing catgirls (I'm assuming this is your fun-time drawing) and doing the boring stuff you absolutely have to do (studying and practicing fabric/anatomy/color theory).

    If you want to do your epic and it is just bursting out of your mind and you're thinking "I have to do this shit NOW, while it's still fresh!" then go for it. Too many projects are doomed to live out their lives in old journals and the head's of artists, in a perpetual development hell because the artist never quite feels like the iron is ready to strike.

    But don't make yourself do it because "I'll be a failure by some arbitrary imagined criteria if I don't!" Because then you aren't doing it for the love of your world, but out of stress. If you think you're doing it for the latter (which it sounds like, since you're thinking of opening the whole can of worms that is finding another creative person to collaborate with just so you can meet a deadline), then stop, take a breath, and take stock of your goals.

    Like DMAC said, tell another story first. Just write something small, populate it with a few characters, and use that as a testing ground. You can even make it loosely based in your world if you want. It doesn't have to be amazing, just tell a story in a visual media. Because making comics is hard. It is it's own beast with all kinds of nuances to learn and inane fuckups to make before you can make something presentable. Work those out on a smaller project and hone your craft.

    And looping back around to bringing in another artist on this: Don't. Just don't do it. This is your world and your world alone. This isn't some empty artiste statement here. If you bring in another artist, you are asking someone to come in and collaborate in the world-building process. But you sound like you already know what you want out of this world, so there's not much to collaborate on. At this point all you'd be looking for is a piece of software that you can feed commands to and will return a fully-formed artistic interpretation of those commands. Trust me, neither of you will leave that experience happily and having done anything productive. Also, most artists that would be better capable of realizing your world are going to want payment, and you won't be able to provide it.

    I have already made a story. I've been working on all of this since 2007 (it went live in 2008). This is just the second piece to it. I'm only trying to release it now even though Mischief Knights isn't finished because it doesn't require the readers to know any of the events of Mischief knights because it's same world, same time, different location.

    The rest is relevent to every critic I've ever gotten but is mostly a Rant I needed to get off my chest to calm down. Yeah even though I'm Androgyne I'm still the kind of guy that needs to get it out to calm down. Because I suppress my anger all of the time when I shouldn't but that's not important. >_>
    The wall of text is info on said project cause well, it's a concept thread. You can't help me if you have no Idea what the f*** I'm doing. I actually had way less text on another forum (one of varies forums I've posted these stories on and counting) and was requested to supply more info on the knights and how ranking system would work. (the wall of text you guys cringed at)


    Really what I'm stressed about is that after years of sweat and constant practice it really doesn't show any impressive improvement. I get critics saying I had not enough detail. Then I add detail and now it's too much!?

    I get folks saying I should focus less on cats. Guess what? MOST OF THE CAST IS THIS.

    I went from straight ass terrible in 2007-2008.
    [SarinaPhantomprofilepicCG.png

    To great in 2011
    ReadySarinaPhantomCG.jpg

    And STILL suck? how the hell does that... I don't even... ARGH! >_<

    I can't even enjoy my self knowing that after years of practice knowing I still technically suck only taking maybe one step in improvement. It just haunts me so damn much! Even more so that theres are f***ing 17 year old s, on DA who can design LIKE GOLDEN GODS!! >_< And my 21 year old ass can only do parlor tricks by comparison. That only non artist or guys worse then me can see any meaningful improvement. I can't even add my own style to F***ing cartoons which aren't real so who gives a f*** If I choose to ignore some autonomy rules! (not related to this thread but still relevant to the rant)

    I didn't post Mischief Knights on here (which is 50+ pages out of 140 done) because I need to make 2 threads. 1 for the Character profiles and another for the actual chapters due to text limits. Something that isn't really allowed here (so it seems).

    You know what I'll post it here. It'll clear things up on on much work was placed into this.

    I want to do this, I want to enjoy it. But it's really just not working out. You can't do what you love and have fun, not when you want to showcase it.

    This might be a sign that maybe graphic design/game design isn't my field. I want to do it, love to do it, but it's just killing me.

    But it's alright, I feel better that I ranted this off my chest all over the internet.

    So yeah should have Ricardo's up and a bit. Please keep in mind these are not going any farther then Flat color since I don't like going all out on something that's just going to end up fucking sucking the end. So yeah feed back on the designs (not the art style but the outfits and hair style in general) is most important.

    Might give Desiree another go and yeah I still need a BG artist. Seriously guys, one of you has to know someone or a good place to look (don't you dare say DA:evil: )


    And for my design for Wallace. Fat Anthro dog? Or should I gun for another race (it's a fantasy/ sci fi setting so any races goes).

    Oh and If I randomly tell you to F- off don't take it personally, I've probably still have some godly rage left in the gun. (/jk)

    Kyanbu on
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Art and storytelling isnt binary. One can't be terrible at it, work for a little while, then suddenly be the best there ever was. That's entirely the wrong attitude to take. This isn't a mountain you ever get to the top of. And three years isnt even a drop in the bucket.

    McGibs on
    website_header.jpg
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    Do not post 50+ pages of text here.

    DMAC on
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    FugitiveFugitive Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Wow, you get defeated hilariously easily.

    You've improved but Jesus, did you make this thread to bitch about your feelings of artistic inadequacy, as if you are the only artist who has ever had to grapple with that? Learn to work past it. Look I can tell you have probably never received any sort of art tutelage from anyone that isn't "dudes on the internet", since apparently you've been conditioned with lessons like "more detail = better art", which... what? Huh? How does that even?

    So pick up some books, or some e-books if you're broke, and check out some online tutorials. There's a thread at the top that contains such mystical resources. Learn to let go of concepts like "style", since those are things that evolve naturally as you learn. You can still employ it, but learn to evolve.

    There is not a number that can adequately represent the amount of shits that nobody around here gives over whether or not you're a great artist. Literally do not have two shits to rub together over this. We are here to learn and to teach. If you want to bitch about how you're never going to attain your goals, or about how hard it is to draw and nobody understands, or to tell anyone to fuck off when they are offering you honest critique, then you can deactivate your account now because we have enough people like that around here already. If you actually want to man the fuck up and continue improving, stick around and listen to what people have to say, and use it.

    Fucking... god dammit!

    Fugitive on
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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    Separate your grand story vision from your artistic skills and focus on them. Without a large amount of money to throw around (Can you pay an artist a years salary, because thats the sort of commitment you are asking for) you aren't going to find an artist to hop onto this. This isn't a judgement you or the story, this is just how it works. Artists need to pay rent, and if working on your project with no input at all doesn't do that, then they wont.

    If you cant pay someones rent, you aren't going to find someone to do this.

    Iruka on
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    from your DA journal:
    The art quality needs to be near/on par with FF 13 or at least Tales of Vespaira good so... Yeah.

    And after getting some advice all over. If I launched this spring as planned. It would flop over hard.

    I'd have to label it furry and through in T&A just to keep it afloat. Also there appears to be issues even with the plot just not delivering it.

    And then there's finding an artist who's willing to do each page at said quality for around and hopefully under $60 a page. Which I might have to publish it to break even.

    You're shooting a bit high there. Like... asking for something with industry standard skill to work for about 3 dollars an hour sorta high. You arn't going to find that. And if you do, you will be sevearly screwing over a very nieve person.

    McGibs on
    website_header.jpg
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    AlyceInWonderlandAlyceInWonderland Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I was typing something up, but fuck it. Fug said exactly what I was going to say.

    Stop your bitching and draw some still lives. I swear to you, you are NOT going to get better if you keep drawing cat people cartoons. It just doesn't work that way.


    Also...maybe get some therapy or something for your anger, because holy shit.

    AlyceInWonderland on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah sorry about that.

    This didn't work out well. I'll just let this die out then. ^^;

    Again my apologies to everyone.

    Kyanbu on
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    KendeathwalkerKendeathwalker Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You give up to easily. You should quit this and find something else to do.

    Kendeathwalker on
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    AlyceInWonderlandAlyceInWonderland Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I dunno man, everything else aside, I think you have potential. If you practice your ass off, and really work at it, you won't have to pay someone else to draw YOUR universe.

    I've seen people come in and post here, and their art needed a lot of help, and after a while of truly hard work, accepting critiques, and realizing that drawing cartoons wasn't the only thing they should do, their work really DRASTICALLY improved.

    I think you should stick around, and while continuing to work on your universe, you should also do studies on the side and post them here.

    You have to accept the fact that it will take a while, though, and not give up, or else you won't get anywhere.

    AlyceInWonderland on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You give up to easily. You should quit this and find something else to do.

    I'm not the type of person to prolong fights and at this point, the thread's almost beyond saving thanks to me. XD

    I shouldn't have posted this so early though. You guy where right I need to wait, improve more, before I can get back on it.

    While I'm alright with environments when it comes to doing it digitally (need to do more stuff like it to be honest), When it comes to armor, I'm horribly impaired. So yeah I'll have to work on that.

    Since most web comics started out low in quality, I'll just launch the comic in the summer anyway. Since I've gotten the first 50 pages planned out plus the ending already decided on to help fill in the gaps. It's a pretty short story compared to the other project (spanning over 800+ pages planned). So I'd say my run would be from summer 2011 to 2013? Avalice Assassin is about around a few hundred pages long.

    Again I should have some more designs up later. I'm improving bit by bit (slow learner) so bare with me on this. While I try to get the armors looking right.

    Kyanbu on
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    AlyceInWonderlandAlyceInWonderland Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Your profile says your in New Jersey...If you're close to NYC at all, you should go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and head over to the armor section with a sketch pad and go to town. I go there all the time and sketch. I mean, it's free anyway.

    AlyceInWonderland on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Your profile says your in New Jersey...If you're close to NYC at all, you should go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and head over to the armor section with a sketch pad and go to town. I go there all the time and sketch. I mean, it's free anyway.

    It's quite a drive for me (in the southern area). But If I'm up north I'll check it out. In the mean time, I'll see what google gives me to work with. The grunts will be simple since I want them to be plain looking. It's the higher up that will be a pain in a half to get right.

    Kyanbu on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Now that I'm calmer and not a depressed wreck I can explain my self more clearly.

    The large number of demons and catgirls/boys and anthro stuff I because D-Universe is an Anthro project basicly. Almost everyone save for humans through in from time to time, is an anthro dog or cat. (nothing wrong with this, cause it'd be like complaining about there being too many humans in elder scrolls.


    The large knees that You've all seen was an experiment to really bring out the character (and cause it looked neat to me). I used to use the current way of drawing limbs.

    Not a great example and I can't stress that enough but
    Abstract3PandoraRoxDressedCG.jpg

    And had you all have gone 8 or so pages into my DA account you would have notice this.

    I ditched the flat knees because I wanted the legs on male and female characters to have shape and form. I really hate flat legs. I can draw them very well, I really hate doing it cause they look so flat. flat knees bother me. So... much flatness.

    So sorry, I'll post some special correct works just for you guys but my projects, save for the surreal stuff like "Breaker: Phantom" (sci fi) and "Gun Jacket" (modern cop story), are keeping the stone knees.


    I have studied and am studying life drawing and still life, hints why the Easter 2011 Fanservice BG came out as decent as it did minus the errors on texture and color, and how I'm capable of doing life sketches and willingly choose not to out just not liking it. I study the environment everyday hell I've given up a good part of my social time to practice and improve my technique (I don't post practice works). That's over 1000+ hours of nothing but endless practice. All for the sake of being able to draw along side the best manga artist on DA.


    What I got mad about was that It seem like you guys where saying I can't draw the way I want because it's wrong. That I could draw them a little strange because you don't like it. Yeah I was warned never to post on Penny Arcade but hey I really want to see how I'd fare here.


    Trust guys you ain't the first ones to hate my way of doing things. and my 100+ watchers on FA prove I'm in the right. Not that I'm never going to keep improving.

    Kyanbu on
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    squidbunnysquidbunny Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    I ditched the flat knees because I wanted the legs on male and female characters to have shape and form. I really hate flat legs. I can draw them very well, I really hate doing it cause they look so flat. flat knees bother me. So... much flatness.
    Agreed. That's a lot of flatness. Those legs don't really look any better, or more "correct" than the bulkier ones.
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    I have studied and am studying life drawing and still life
    Show us this stuff, then: we can help you improve faster with a look at this than this doggedly stylized anthro stuff.
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    Trust guys you ain't the first ones to hate my way of doing things. and my 100+ watchers on FA prove I'm in the right. .
    Your takeaway should be that you have ample room for improvement. Don't be defensive; you're not here to be right.

    squidbunny on
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    Can't decide whether to laugh or cry...

    DMAC on
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    DMACDMAC Come at me, bro! Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
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    TDevTDev Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    I have studied and am studying life drawing and still life, hints why the Easter 2011 Fanservice BG came out as decent as it did minus the errors on texture and color, and how I'm capable of doing life sketches and willingly choose not to out just not liking it. I study the environment everyday hell I've given up a good part of my social time to practice and improve my technique (I don't post practice works). That's over 1000+ hours of nothing but endless practice. All for the sake of being able to draw along side the best manga artist on DA.

    I don't know if you have actually read the rules or the sticky post about what this forum is about. You reallly should. Not because it's all about rules and doing things right, more because it might help you understand why you receive the feedback you are receiving.

    You should post practice work. It shows where you really are skill-wise.
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    What I got mad about was that It seem like you guys where saying I can't draw the way I want because it's wrong. That I could draw them a little strange because you don't like it. Yeah I was warned never to post on Penny Arcade but hey I really want to see how I'd fare here.

    You can draw any way that you want to and no way is wrong if you are just trying to make pictures that are pleasing to you. However, if you show pictures to other people they will see weird things and will feel that the picture looks "off", they won't care about why they just won't like your work. The feedback here is supposed to help you understand why people will think your work looks off to other people. Because unless you are showing your work only to aliens who have never seen humans, cats, fabric, or knees of any kind, your work will look "wrong" not "stylized".

    Kyanbu wrote: »
    Trust guys you ain't the first ones to hate my way of doing things. and my 100+ watchers on FA prove I'm in the right. Not that I'm never going to keep improving.

    You are mistaking criticism for hate and by throwing several tantrums and making excuses you disprespect people who take the time to try to help you.

    Those who warned you away from these forums did it for one of 3 reasons:
    1. They came here to be praised and did not receive praise and left in a huff.
    2. They understand how this forum works and don't think you can handle criticism.
    3. They don't understand how this forum works and don't think your work compares well to the other stuff here.

    I am not sure why I even posted this because I doubt that you would listen to me when you have not managed to heed anyone else. Except that I've lurked here for years long before even making an account and I'm always sad when passionate artists who post here become defensive and discouraged and don't live up to their potential.

    TDev on
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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I was one of the first ones that, while giving criticism, complimented your line work and costume design.

    Having said that, it seems like you came in here, and if you didn't hear that your work was awesome you planned to just run off and say the hell with it, or in your specific case, cut back the deadline for your work four years from now, which is absolutely ridiculous.

    Dude, just draw, if your stuff isn't where you want it to be, it will be. Early PvP, QC, Penny Arcade, etc looks like ass compared to how it's drawn today.

    You're not going to be able to afford a professional artist to do the amount of work you seem to want done, and if you keep trying to wait until everything is perfect you're never going to launch your comic.

    Do your comic, post it here for critique, take small baby steps to make it better over time and by that 2015 deadline you could have hundreds of pages of an interesting comic with what looks to be a seriously detailed storyline and you might even have a dedicated handful of readers complimenting you on your art development over the years.

    amateurhour on
    are YOU on the beer list?
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well using what you've all told me. I've managed to fix the month old pic up enough to not completely suck.

    Ricardo Taifun Concept design 1 sketch after digital clean up. It's also a concept for the 11th Rank Avalice Knights armor. These proto type and subject to changed based on the critics and feedback.

    RicardTaiphunConceptDesign.jpg

    Flat color will be up soon.

    As for the armor I'm still studying designs. Looking more into fantasy design though. With Knight Armors, I wanted to make the low rank armors (Ranks 12 through 10 and ZERO) Look simplistic, while the higher rank armor will be more detailed and flashy.

    I'll have a new better design for Desiree along with the color scheme for all Knight armors for Ranks 12 through 4.

    Kyanbu on
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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    DMAC, you made me laugh for like 4 minutes straight.

    MagicToaster on
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    FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    I don't post practice works.

    This is something that you'll want to think about changing. Practice works are, by definition, meant to improve your drawing practice. Though your own observations are definitely valuable, having somebody point out flaws in your work if often very helpful for finding your 'blind spots' - the habits you've developed unthinkingly. I tend to make legs and arms too long for example, and it's helpful for someone to point things like that out because I can't or don't see them. Posting your practice works will really help people identify these spots, and maybe share some of their own practice. It also might help because we don't have as much emotional attachment to those pieces, making accepting criticism a little easier.

    Unfortunately DA isn't a very good place to find criticism like this, and there've been many instances of culture shock on the forums from people transferring over from praise-focused to development-focused communities. The comments here may feel like they're just trying to put you down, but that's not what's intended. The community is here to help you improve.

    Stylisation and realism are not mutally exclusive, but while you can learn a LOT about stylized art by studying anatomy, it unfortunately doesn't work the other way around. Anime (for example) is an interpretation of realism, and any anime artist worth their salt will be able to draw a realistic face as well as they can draw a stylised one. Take these two pieces for instance, drawn by the same artist. Also, ALL artists use references when they draw, so the better you can draw from observation, the better you will be able to transfer that information in to your own drawings. Don't stop drawing what you enjoy, by any means, but NEVER neglect your studies.

    Listen to what people have to say, and don't get discouraged. Good luck to you!

    Flay on
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    melting_dollmelting_doll Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    What I got mad about was that It seem like you guys where saying I can't draw the way I want because it's wrong. That I could draw them a little strange because you don't like it.

    A lot of people use the "it's a stylistic choice" excuse as a cop-out for not having better skills. Cat-people still require a sense of proper anatomy. Look at Lackadaisy. The artist keeps the characters very feline-y but his knowledge of proportions and anatomy are clearly very good.

    For one, you draw your torsos too long and your boobs too high. Nor do you seem to really understand how the body is constructed.

    You talk about yourself like you're really good at what you do, but this forum is to teach people to see their work from a different perspective. It sounds like you need to learn a bit of humbleness and understand that making an improvement over the years does not mean you don't have tons of room for more. dA is chock-full of ass-kissing baddies, and it's hard to get legit critiques. If you choose to ignore REAL advice here at PA, you'll probably make improvements, but you'll still be mediocre.

    melting_doll on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I may need to edit out those posts. Anyway yes I've gotten over that and have token all of your and a couple others place's advice into order.

    Was recommended to check this out last night.
    Gonna try hunting this down over the course of the week. It'll help me improve by a very large margin.

    edit: please don't forget this is a concept thread and while getting advice of the same things told over and over is nice and all. It's not the sole reason this thread exists.
    Kyanbu wrote: »
    What I got mad about was that It seem like you guys where saying I can't draw the way I want because it's wrong. That I could draw them a little strange because you don't like it.

    A lot of people use the "it's a stylistic choice" excuse as a cop-out for not having better skills. Cat-people still require a sense of proper anatomy. Look at Lackadaisy. The artist keeps the characters very feline-y but his knowledge of proportions and anatomy are clearly very good.

    For one, you draw your torsos too long and your boobs too high. Nor do you seem to really understand how the body is constructed.

    You talk about yourself like you're really good at what you do, but this forum is to teach people to see their work from a different perspective. It sounds like you need to learn a bit of humbleness and understand that making an improvement over the years does not mean you don't have tons of room for more. dA is chock-full of ass-kissing baddies, and it's hard to get legit critiques. If you choose to ignore REAL advice here at PA, you'll probably make improvements, but you'll still be mediocre.


    I'm going to have to prove the extent of my abilities.

    Least so you can all believe me when I say I understand autonomy. Had been studying it over the course of 2009 through 2010. I've posted on other places and there's another forum just like this where everything that's happened in this thread has already happened before. I was given teaching tools and I studied them. So yes it really is a style choice. Even after I master autonomy, I'll still draw my characters like this. Because having to redo those character profiles for mischief knights/and any project done by that time 2 years from now all over again would piss me off to no end.

    Kyanbu on
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    melting_dollmelting_doll Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's clear you know what autonomy is

    but what I'm talking about is anatomy

    melting_doll on
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    KyanbuKyanbu Digital Artist Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well that I didn't know. Well the term I didn't know anyway. The structure of the living body (basically what we learn in health classes) is something most people, including myself already know.

    In my state it's a requirement in order graduate from High School.

    Would have to master this if I'm to master Autonomy.

    Kyanbu on
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    What the hell are you going on about?

    ANATOMY is the study of the human body, how it's contructed, how it moves, what it's parts are. For an artist, it means knowing how it works intimatly, and from memory like a mechanic. And you sir, with your one highschool health class, are NOT a master of anatomy.
    If you were a master of anatomy, youd certainly be making some better stylistic choice, because the ones you're 'purposly choosing' to make are pretty terrible looking.

    McGibs on
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    FugitiveFugitive Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Ugh.

    Fugitive on
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