Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
You'd need to justify it as a federal issue then... no idea where you'd start on that.
I feel like the remedy is not in trying to persuade the legal system to function, but in building public intolerance for a legal system that will not function. Understanding that a fair legal system is foundational to economic growth.
And then expressing that through protest and economic responses. Find out who pays and sponsors these legislators, and start boycotting their shit. Protesting clearly and publicly, without getting sidetracked or misdirected.
This is about power. If you cannot organize well enough to earn democracy, you will not have it.
Ben Wikler (MoveOn.org management guy) posted a twitter thread on some ways to get active against this. Remote phone banking for out-of-state people, local calling setup, info on rallies, legislative sessions, etc.
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
You're assuming they won't repeal it immediately after the tables are flipped.
This isn't a "limit the scope of the executive" bill, because the executive has overextended their power.
This is a "limit the scope of Democrats" bill. As soon as it can be used against them, it'll be gone
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
You're assuming they won't repeal it immediately after the tables are flipped.
This isn't a "limit the scope of the executive" bill, because the executive has overextended their power.
This is a "limit the scope of Democrats" bill. As soon as it can be used against them, it'll be gone
Yes. Some of the offices the Republicans are now removing are offices they just added a few years ago while Walker was in charge. This isn't... like a principled statement about how many offices there should be. It's how many offices they should have versus how many offices you should have.
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
You're assuming they won't repeal it immediately after the tables are flipped.
This isn't a "limit the scope of the executive" bill, because the executive has overextended their power.
This is a "limit the scope of Democrats" bill. As soon as it can be used against them, it'll be gone
Well the hope is in 2020 we can get the gerrymandering fixed at least a bit to bring back the more normal balance in the state house/legislature. Even if that is not the case though once the legislature has the power why would they cede it back to the Gov again?
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I ZimbraWorst song, played on ugliest guitarRegistered Userregular
Most of that seems extremely challengable in court.
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
You're assuming they won't repeal it immediately after the tables are flipped.
This isn't a "limit the scope of the executive" bill, because the executive has overextended their power.
This is a "limit the scope of Democrats" bill. As soon as it can be used against them, it'll be gone
Well the hope is in 2020 we can get the gerrymandering fixed at least a bit to bring back the more normal balance in the state house/legislature. Even if that is not the case though once the legislature has the power why would they cede it back to the Gov again?
One of the powers they're removing is the ability of the governor to veto the assembly's redistricting maps, so good luck with that.
Again, they do not care about legislative/executive power balance, they care about keeping power away from the Democrats.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
It's 11 PM in Wisconsin, do you know where your legislature is?
Passing anti-democratic bills on party line votes, that's where.
Not only are they going to pass this, but they are literally going to be doing it in the dead of night
I work at the other end of State St and will be getting off work in 15 minutes so I think I might take a stroll up to the capital and see what's going on.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Not only are they going to pass this, but they are literally going to be doing it in the dead of night
I work at the other end of State St and will be getting off work in 15 minutes so I think I might take a stroll up to the capital and see what's going on.
Not only are they going to pass this, but they are literally going to be doing it in the dead of night
I work at the other end of State St and will be getting off work in 15 minutes so I think I might take a stroll up to the capital and see what's going on.
It's now 7 AM and they're still in session.
I'm truly surprised. Normally the cockroaches run for cover when the sun comes up. Must be a hardy breed, these Wisconsin Republicans.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Do the people have any redress? Clearly voting isn't working, since they're overriding that with this nonsense session.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Do the people have any redress? Clearly voting isn't working, since they're overriding that with this nonsense session.
lawsuits lots of them. Make it so time intensive and costly for the legislature, make every yes vote part of multi week depositions that they are just stuck constantly defending themselves.
And protests Put names to votes, and literally make them the most hated people in the state. Non stop pressure, for years.
That's it. Honestly looking at the laws they are passing, most of them are sadly constitutional. The ones that are going to be most challengable are going to be ones that effect voter rights. The ones effecting the attorney general might be challengable too. The other ones effecting the governor, those probably have legs and will stand. Although they are short sighted, because eventually the GOP with have another governor there, and why on earth would the legislature give up power.
Although they are short sighted, because eventually the GOP with have another governor there, and why on earth would the legislature give up power.
It's not really short-sighted. The Legislature is where they've gerrymandered the crap out of things. So, the way it works, is...
R Leg, D Gov - Power to the Leg.
R Leg, R Gov - Power to either. Party time for R's.
D Leg, R Gov - Repeal this in the lame duck that happens in, power back to the Gov.
D Leg, D Gov - They're hosed. And they know it.
But because they're not likely to lose the Legislature, they get to keep things best for R's.
Do the people have any redress? Clearly voting isn't working, since they're overriding that with this nonsense session.
The argument that'll be made is that there isn't anything that the next Legislature can't undo, therefore it's not a subversion of democracy.
Completely ignoring the systematic advantages Republicans have given themselves.
But if they make it illegal to overturn their gerrymandered advantage in 2020 after the Census and redistricting, that's the ballgame for Democracy in Wisconsin. Which has some dark implications, boy how.
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Although they are short sighted, because eventually the GOP with have another governor there, and why on earth would the legislature give up power.
It's not really short-sighted. The Legislature is where they've gerrymandered the crap out of things. So, the way it works, is...
R Leg, D Gov - Power to the Leg.
R Leg, R Gov - Power to either. Party time for R's.
D Leg, R Gov - Repeal this in the lame duck that happens in, power back to the Gov.
D Leg, D Gov - They're hosed. And they know it.
But because they're not likely to lose the Legislature, they get to keep things best for R's.
Which is why there needs to be name and shame for years. Unfortunately I don't think Wisconsin has the will for a multiyear protest.
Do the people have any redress? Clearly voting isn't working, since they're overriding that with this nonsense session.
The argument that'll be made is that there isn't anything that the next Legislature can't undo, therefore it's not a subversion of democracy.
Completely ignoring the systematic advantages Republicans have given themselves.
But if they make it illegal to overturn their gerrymandered advantage in 2020 after the Census and redistricting, that's the ballgame for Democracy in Wisconsin. Which has some dark implications, boy how.
That's my point.
"You have the ability to change the rules. But you can only get the ability to change the rules, by following the rules we make. And we're going to make it hard to follow our rules and win.
But you can still change them if you do all that. Therefore, democracy."
Like seriously, 8 years? You mean the 8 years wherein the governor invented a budget crisis and then engaged in extreme amateur hour budget redirects (See the play pen for athletes that came after gutting the university's budget), gave away a shit load of money to google and other assorted fiascos that ultimately resulted in him being turfed?
Like for fucks sakes I can't even fathom how these guys are able to say any of this shit with a straight face.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
It's gonna take an entire generation to fix this fucking shit
Do the people have any redress? Clearly voting isn't working, since they're overriding that with this nonsense session.
The argument that'll be made is that there isn't anything that the next Legislature can't undo, therefore it's not a subversion of democracy.
Completely ignoring the systematic advantages Republicans have given themselves.
But if they make it illegal to overturn their gerrymandered advantage in 2020 after the Census and redistricting, that's the ballgame for Democracy in Wisconsin. Which has some dark implications, boy how.
Wisconsin is basically already fucked and already has dark implications. It was the Right-Wing Billionaire test-case for dismantling a more left-wing state and making it virtually impossible for them to recover it and it succeeded brilliant. It's what you can expect from anywhere else in the US if you let them take power.
Watching this happen, knowing some people on the ground effected by it, it's just been depressing because there seems little to no way to stop it.
Given the margin of votes for dems for the state assembly and how few actual seats they got and with this nonsense I don't see how this is not an issue into perpetuity and that WI is now a minority rule state.
It's gonna take an entire generation to fix this fucking shit
If we're lucky
I don't actually believe that these gerrymandered dictatorships are going to last for that much longer. It'll just be a question of whether its the courts or angry crowds that tear them down.
Things are dire, but not without sources of hope. Wisconsin still has a very strong and angry liberal base. It'll be a long fight but not seeing the path out doesn't mean there isn't one. The unexpected doesn't always have to work towards injustice.
It's gonna take an entire generation to fix this fucking shit
If we're lucky
I don't actually believe that these gerrymandered dictatorships are going to last for that much longer. It'll just be a question of whether its the courts or angry crowds that tear them down.
The problem isn't the map, that can be fixed. It's that Wisconsin Republicans have abandoned the idea of the peaceful transition of power, which is to say they have abandoned democracy. There isn't really a remedy to that.
It's gonna take an entire generation to fix this fucking shit
If we're lucky
I don't actually believe that these gerrymandered dictatorships are going to last for that much longer. It'll just be a question of whether its the courts or angry crowds that tear them down.
The problem isn't the map, that can be fixed. It's that Wisconsin Republicans have abandoned the idea of the peaceful transition of power, which is to say they have abandoned democracy. There isn't really a remedy to that.
I mean, there is. It's just that, much like the Civil Rights Movement, the route doesn't lie through existing law.
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2018: we lost so you lose too
There's a conservative majority on the Wisconsin Supreme Court, and our justices don't even pretend to be impartial. It's an elected office, and so they end up being quite partisan as a result. I wouldn't trust the courts for redress.
You'd need to justify it as a federal issue then... no idea where you'd start on that.
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And then expressing that through protest and economic responses. Find out who pays and sponsors these legislators, and start boycotting their shit. Protesting clearly and publicly, without getting sidetracked or misdirected.
This is about power. If you cannot organize well enough to earn democracy, you will not have it.
Yup it will be a total rubber stamp on this. The only silver lining is this likely will effect more GOP in the future than dems given that we tend to have GOP governors.
You're assuming they won't repeal it immediately after the tables are flipped.
This isn't a "limit the scope of the executive" bill, because the executive has overextended their power.
This is a "limit the scope of Democrats" bill. As soon as it can be used against them, it'll be gone
Yes. Some of the offices the Republicans are now removing are offices they just added a few years ago while Walker was in charge. This isn't... like a principled statement about how many offices there should be. It's how many offices they should have versus how many offices you should have.
Well the hope is in 2020 we can get the gerrymandering fixed at least a bit to bring back the more normal balance in the state house/legislature. Even if that is not the case though once the legislature has the power why would they cede it back to the Gov again?
One of the powers they're removing is the ability of the governor to veto the assembly's redistricting maps, so good luck with that.
Again, they do not care about legislative/executive power balance, they care about keeping power away from the Democrats.
Passing anti-democratic bills on party line votes, that's where.
I work at the other end of State St and will be getting off work in 15 minutes so I think I might take a stroll up to the capital and see what's going on.
It's now 7 AM and they're still in session.
I'm truly surprised. Normally the cockroaches run for cover when the sun comes up. Must be a hardy breed, these Wisconsin Republicans.
No.
The argument that'll be made is that there isn't anything that the next Legislature can't undo, therefore it's not a subversion of democracy.
Completely ignoring the systematic advantages Republicans have given themselves.
And protests Put names to votes, and literally make them the most hated people in the state. Non stop pressure, for years.
That's it. Honestly looking at the laws they are passing, most of them are sadly constitutional. The ones that are going to be most challengable are going to be ones that effect voter rights. The ones effecting the attorney general might be challengable too. The other ones effecting the governor, those probably have legs and will stand. Although they are short sighted, because eventually the GOP with have another governor there, and why on earth would the legislature give up power.
R Leg, D Gov - Power to the Leg.
R Leg, R Gov - Power to either. Party time for R's.
D Leg, R Gov - Repeal this in the lame duck that happens in, power back to the Gov.
D Leg, D Gov - They're hosed. And they know it.
But because they're not likely to lose the Legislature, they get to keep things best for R's.
Just arguing for strong minority rule now.
But if they make it illegal to overturn their gerrymandered advantage in 2020 after the Census and redistricting, that's the ballgame for Democracy in Wisconsin. Which has some dark implications, boy how.
That's my point.
"You have the ability to change the rules. But you can only get the ability to change the rules, by following the rules we make. And we're going to make it hard to follow our rules and win.
But you can still change them if you do all that. Therefore, democracy."
Jesus christ, the sheer balls of these idiots.
Like seriously, 8 years? You mean the 8 years wherein the governor invented a budget crisis and then engaged in extreme amateur hour budget redirects (See the play pen for athletes that came after gutting the university's budget), gave away a shit load of money to google and other assorted fiascos that ultimately resulted in him being turfed?
Like for fucks sakes I can't even fathom how these guys are able to say any of this shit with a straight face.
Wisconsin is basically already fucked and already has dark implications. It was the Right-Wing Billionaire test-case for dismantling a more left-wing state and making it virtually impossible for them to recover it and it succeeded brilliant. It's what you can expect from anywhere else in the US if you let them take power.
Watching this happen, knowing some people on the ground effected by it, it's just been depressing because there seems little to no way to stop it.
If we're lucky
I don't actually believe that these gerrymandered dictatorships are going to last for that much longer. It'll just be a question of whether its the courts or angry crowds that tear them down.
The problem isn't the map, that can be fixed. It's that Wisconsin Republicans have abandoned the idea of the peaceful transition of power, which is to say they have abandoned democracy. There isn't really a remedy to that.
I mean, there is. It's just that, much like the Civil Rights Movement, the route doesn't lie through existing law.
Well I’d wager that the judiciary isn’t going to be much help.
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Sam Power is a former US ambassador to the UN and the New York Times is a paper that can suck my whole ass.
This is one of those monkey's paw situations for people complaining this wasn't getting national coverage.