Sometimes I hate how hyperbolic everyone is on these forums, because I said on Obama's part there's been a leadership and messaging issue people are sandbagging me for saying this entire crisis is Obama's fault, which it isn't. It is the Republican's fault, but just because a hostage taker is the one responsible for the life of the hostages doesn't mean we don't get to criticize how the negotiator handles it when he opens with "okay, maybe we do need to kill a few hostages, I'm with you on that one..."
I'm with you. This is pretty much a textbook case of weak leadership emboldening the opposition.
I'm pretty sure this is a case of <insert whatever the fuck you want here> emboldening the mentally deranged.
The president is the master all matter and energy, guys. He's the Avatar!
Nope, he's just a fairly average bureaucrat who would have been a good administrator in a crazy time. If you read up on them, Neville Chamberlain, Alexander Kerensky and Friedrich Ebert were all a pretty decent dudes, too.
Sometimes I hate how hyperbolic everyone is on these forums, because I said on Obama's part there's been a leadership and messaging issue people are sandbagging me for saying this entire crisis is Obama's fault, which it isn't. It is the Republican's fault, but just because a hostage taker is the one responsible for the life of the hostages doesn't mean we don't get to criticize how the negotiator handles it when he opens with "okay, maybe we do need to kill a few hostages, I'm with you on that one..."
I'm with you. This is pretty much a textbook case of weak leadership emboldening the opposition.
I'm pretty sure this is a case of <insert whatever the fuck you want here> emboldening the mentally deranged.
Boehner only has a job by a fucking 3 votes.
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Ok so apparently the president now is responsible for congress failing to do things, and when that happens it because of a lack of percieved leadership based on him not doing or doing a bunch of dc inner village buzz words. I gotcha that makes perfect sense.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Sometimes I hate how hyperbolic everyone is on these forums, because I said on Obama's part there's been a leadership and messaging issue people are sandbagging me for saying this entire crisis is Obama's fault, which it isn't. It is the Republican's fault, but just because a hostage taker is the one responsible for the life of the hostages doesn't mean we don't get to criticize how the negotiator handles it when he opens with "okay, maybe we do need to kill a few hostages, I'm with you on that one..."
I'm with you. This is pretty much a textbook case of weak leadership emboldening the opposition.
I'm pretty sure this is a case of <insert whatever the fuck you want here> emboldening the mentally deranged.
Boehner only has a job by a fucking 3 votes.
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
And he's only half black! Imagine if he was completely black!
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
No, it's his fault for utterly botching the messaging with the stimulus and bailouts. He was fully in his bipartisanship over all mode and let the GOP run the room with him. He never called them on anything. It was really cringe-worthy.
And, if you remember, this was the climate where Fox News and MSNBC birthed the Tea Party.
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
No, it's his fault for utterly botching the messaging with the stimulus and bailouts. He was fully in his bipartisanship over all mode and let the GOP run the room with him. He never called them on anything. It was really cringe-worthy.
And, if you remember, this was the climate where Fox News and MSNBC birthed the Tea Party.
So the debt ceiling is entirely Obama's fault for being bipartisan? I don't even...
Jesus you even say that MSNBC birthed the tea party.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I can't believe this country is falling because of the revenge of the descendants of racist, southern white savages. This country will be painted as dominated by such as the rest of the world forever.
Sometimes I hate how hyperbolic everyone is on these forums, because I said on Obama's part there's been a leadership and messaging issue people are sandbagging me for saying this entire crisis is Obama's fault, which it isn't. It is the Republican's fault, but just because a hostage taker is the one responsible for the life of the hostages doesn't mean we don't get to criticize how the negotiator handles it when he opens with "okay, maybe we do need to kill a few hostages, I'm with you on that one..."
I'm with you. This is pretty much a textbook case of weak leadership emboldening the opposition.
On the one hand, Obama starting negotiations from a 50/50 compromise is infuriating.
On the other hand, it rather effectively demonstrates the current insanity of the GOP.
Obama's not a great option, but better him than any of the Republican candidates.
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
No, it's his fault for utterly botching the messaging with the stimulus and bailouts. He was fully in his bipartisanship over all mode and let the GOP run the room with him. He never called them on anything. It was really cringe-worthy.
And, if you remember, this was the climate where Fox News and MSNBC birthed the Tea Party.
Messaging is overrated. There are three things that birthed the Tea Party:
1) Racism
2) Democrats are inherently illegitimate rulers to a large percentage of the nation
3) The GOP needed to re-brand
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
As far as the debt ceiling, I don't see how this is Obama's fault. This was going to happen no matter what, the Tea Party being in the House at all pretty much guaranteed that.
As far as the messaging on this? Obama and the Democrats can't control the media. The media likes the Tea Party narrative. They like the Republican narrative. Selling "our economy is so shitty right now because of poor people (who aren't you), and our debt is there also because of poor people" is a lot easier than "our economy is so shitty right now because of rich people (who aren't you), corporations, and the way the financial institutions have been run for the last 30 years. Our debt is only an issue because people aren't paying their fair share of taxes". The media knows this. No amount of yelling from a podium or repeating it to the media is going to change their narrative.
What's next to Rand Paul's name? What's next to Jim DeMint's name? What's next to the majority of the freshman Reps' names? Is it " - (T)" or is it " - (R)"?
It's an (R). Because they're Republicans. Voted for by Republicans.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
They're the Republican Frankenstein.
Tea Partiers think they're republicans, because they're not democrats.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
Not "fuck everybody blow this bitch up" style politics.
What's next to Rand Paul's name? What's next to Jim DeMint's name? What's next to the majority of the freshman Reps' names? Is it " - (T)" or is it " - (R)"?
It's an (R). Because they're Republicans. Voted for by Republicans.
I think we're seeing a preview of the future messenging from the GOP. We'll be hearing a lot of "We're not the Tea Party! We hate those guys!" soon.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
They're the Republican Frankenstein.
Tea Partiers think they're republicans, because they're not democrats.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
Not "fuck everybody blow this bitch up" style politics.
That makes them not conservatives, but the Republican Party hasn't been conservative for years.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
Not "fuck everybody blow this bitch up" style politics.
And Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus, but they sure as fuck aren't all giving away their possessions and devoting their lives to caring for the poor. Shit changes.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
They're the Republican Frankenstein.
Tea Partiers think they're republicans, because they're not democrats.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
Not "fuck everybody blow this bitch up" style politics.
Conservatives want things to stay the same. These guys want to revert to the days of witch burning and slavery.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
The leader of the main Tea Party group (Freedomworks) is the former Majority Leader of the House under Newt Gingrich, Dick Armey.
I really cannot see how you can say that and expect to be taken at all seriously.
I'm not saying Tea Partiers just sprang into existence from total neutrality.
But I am saying that what Tea Partiers represent now is certainly not what Republicans used to believe.
Why stop at conservative, then? Why not go back to when they used to be the crazy liberals, back in Lincoln's day?
It doesn't really matter what the party used to be. I mean, most of us have been pining for the days of Eisenhower Republicans; but that's just not how things are today, or how things have been since Nixon. That doesn't make the Tea Party not Republicans; they're really exactly the same people who have been driving the party since the 70s.
Yes, because the Republican caucus has always been about conservative, rational reflection.
Just like the R's in the current Congress... shit, wait, no.
Just like the R's in the previous Congress... shit, wait, no.
Just like Bush II... shit, wait, no.
Just like Hastert's House caucus... shit, wait, no.
Just like Gingrich's House caucus... shit, wait, no.
Just like Reagan... shit, wait, no.
Just like Nixon... shit, wait, no.
Tea Partiers are not real republicans. They are a separate faction.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
They're the Republican Frankenstein.
Tea Partiers think they're republicans, because they're not democrats.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
You're confusing a party name with an ideology.
Being a Republican does not mean one is conservative. It means one votes for and supports the Republican party. Up until the 60s Republicans were the liberals.
Let's not pretend that the crazy wing of the Republican Party hasn't been around for a long time. Sinclair Lewis was writing about bible crazy Republican lunes in the 1920s. Members of the GOP were fellating Hitler and Mussolini in the '30s and asking bold questions like "Is fascism the right answer for America?"
McCarthy was GOP in the '50s. The John Birch Society was the Tea Party before the Tea Party. You know that crazy shit the Air Force General was saying in Dr. Strangeglove about communists perverting his bodily fluids through flouride? That was all pulled straight from Birch publications. There's a photo of Sarah Palin with the John Birch newsletter on her desk out there.
I really could go on. The only new thing about this is that the crazy wing has finally gotten large enough to make a play to take over the entire party.
It really bothers me that there are two separate issues here being conflated into one. Paul Krugman has of course pointed this out:
Issue the First: The Debt Ceiling. If we don't raise it we default and the credit rating of the US gets downgraded because AAA = 0 chance of default. This could be resolved overngiht with a simple vote to raise and/or eliminate the debt ceiling, no strings attached.
Issue the Second: Amount of Debt. Running huge deficits year after year is an indicator of being unable to keep revenues and expenditures at a similar level, for one reason or another. This is a much thornier issue to resolve and this is why it's taking so long.
The problem here is that conservatives in Congress are holding a resolution of Issue 1 hostage in order to obtain a favorable (to them) resolution of Issue 2. They want to get tax cuts, major entitlement reductions, and a cap on future expenditures and revenue increases right now.
This is silly because this implies that they do not expect in the future to have any more political firepower than they do at present: if within the next ten years they can control both branches of Congress and/or the Presidency they have a much better shot at achieving their goals without any sacrifices for the sake of political compromise. It could only take 2 years for them to turn a long, drawn out fight into the easiest bill to ever get signed into law, but they won't wait.
Maybe they expect to get demographic'd into irrelevance within half a decade, that's the only way I can explain the fervor with which the GOP is demanding enormous concessions from Democrats while refusing to compromise on their own pet issues. It makes no sense to not strike a bargain now and hold out for the chance to pass a much more sweeping and permanent bill. Hell if they lose this game of chicken they're not going to have anything left to govern.
Posts
I'm pretty sure this is a case of <insert whatever the fuck you want here> emboldening the mentally deranged.
Boehner only has a job by a fucking 3 votes.
Then I'm rolling shaman.
Nope, he's just a fairly average bureaucrat who would have been a good administrator in a crazy time. If you read up on them, Neville Chamberlain, Alexander Kerensky and Friedrich Ebert were all a pretty decent dudes, too.
What we need today is another LBJ.
It's not even complicated. It's his fault for being born black and for a sizable number of complete fucking nutjobs becoming completely motherfucking unhinged because of that fact.
Of course I am. I'm not stupid.
I'd also get my leg amputated if it turned gangrenous. Wouldn't like it much.
pleasepaypreacher.net
And he's only half black! Imagine if he was completely black!
You never stick your vote in the crazy.
No, it's his fault for utterly botching the messaging with the stimulus and bailouts. He was fully in his bipartisanship over all mode and let the GOP run the room with him. He never called them on anything. It was really cringe-worthy.
And, if you remember, this was the climate where Fox News and MSNBC birthed the Tea Party.
Also, hacking upgrades. Always need those to open storage lockers
So the debt ceiling is entirely Obama's fault for being bipartisan? I don't even...
Jesus you even say that MSNBC birthed the tea party.
pleasepaypreacher.net
On the one hand, Obama starting negotiations from a 50/50 compromise is infuriating.
On the other hand, it rather effectively demonstrates the current insanity of the GOP.
Obama's not a great option, but better him than any of the Republican candidates.
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Messaging is overrated. There are three things that birthed the Tea Party:
1) Racism
2) Democrats are inherently illegitimate rulers to a large percentage of the nation
3) The GOP needed to re-brand
I'll let my fellow mental case and complete moron about politics Paul Krugman respond to this one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html?hp
Because it's SOOOOO CRAZY to be disappointed in Obama.
Wow.
Tea Partiers are nothing but real Republicans. They are the base courted by Nixon's Southern Strategy. They are the secret weapon that Lee Atwater used to such great effect. They were George W.'s biggest fans.
The Tea Party is nothing more than a clever rebranding of the GOP's rank and file, the Rush Limbaugh listening, black people hating mass that has kept the GOP in office since the 1960s.
They're the Republican Frankenstein.
As far as the messaging on this? Obama and the Democrats can't control the media. The media likes the Tea Party narrative. They like the Republican narrative. Selling "our economy is so shitty right now because of poor people (who aren't you), and our debt is there also because of poor people" is a lot easier than "our economy is so shitty right now because of rich people (who aren't you), corporations, and the way the financial institutions have been run for the last 30 years. Our debt is only an issue because people aren't paying their fair share of taxes". The media knows this. No amount of yelling from a podium or repeating it to the media is going to change their narrative.
It's just re-branding! This drives me so nuts. It's the same people with the same policies.
No. When they would have kicked Reagan out for being too liberal, these people are way, way worse.
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I really cannot see how you can say that and expect to be taken at all seriously.
And no shame.
Though some would argue that applies to the majority of 'normal' republican congressmen/senators anyway so YMMV.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Yes, they're Gingrich Republicans!
It's an (R). Because they're Republicans. Voted for by Republicans.
Tea Partiers think they're republicans, because they're not democrats.
But Republicanism is based on conservative, rational reflection.
Not "fuck everybody blow this bitch up" style politics.
I think we're seeing a preview of the future messenging from the GOP. We'll be hearing a lot of "We're not the Tea Party! We hate those guys!" soon.
I'm not saying Tea Partiers just sprang into existence from total neutrality.
But I am saying that what Tea Partiers represent now is certainly not what Republicans used to believe.
That makes them not conservatives, but the Republican Party hasn't been conservative for years.
And Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus, but they sure as fuck aren't all giving away their possessions and devoting their lives to caring for the poor. Shit changes.
Conservatives want things to stay the same. These guys want to revert to the days of witch burning and slavery.
Oh I'll vote for him. Will I give time or money to his campaign? Meh. Maybe.
LoL: failboattootoot
It doesn't really matter what the party used to be. I mean, most of us have been pining for the days of Eisenhower Republicans; but that's just not how things are today, or how things have been since Nixon. That doesn't make the Tea Party not Republicans; they're really exactly the same people who have been driving the party since the 70s.
Just like the R's in the current Congress... shit, wait, no.
Just like the R's in the previous Congress... shit, wait, no.
Just like Bush II... shit, wait, no.
Just like Hastert's House caucus... shit, wait, no.
Just like Gingrich's House caucus... shit, wait, no.
Just like Reagan... shit, wait, no.
Just like Nixon... shit, wait, no.
I guess if we go back to Eisenhower...
[ed] or what ebum said.
You're confusing a party name with an ideology.
Being a Republican does not mean one is conservative. It means one votes for and supports the Republican party. Up until the 60s Republicans were the liberals.
McCarthy was GOP in the '50s. The John Birch Society was the Tea Party before the Tea Party. You know that crazy shit the Air Force General was saying in Dr. Strangeglove about communists perverting his bodily fluids through flouride? That was all pulled straight from Birch publications. There's a photo of Sarah Palin with the John Birch newsletter on her desk out there.
I really could go on. The only new thing about this is that the crazy wing has finally gotten large enough to make a play to take over the entire party.
Issue the First: The Debt Ceiling. If we don't raise it we default and the credit rating of the US gets downgraded because AAA = 0 chance of default. This could be resolved overngiht with a simple vote to raise and/or eliminate the debt ceiling, no strings attached.
Issue the Second: Amount of Debt. Running huge deficits year after year is an indicator of being unable to keep revenues and expenditures at a similar level, for one reason or another. This is a much thornier issue to resolve and this is why it's taking so long.
The problem here is that conservatives in Congress are holding a resolution of Issue 1 hostage in order to obtain a favorable (to them) resolution of Issue 2. They want to get tax cuts, major entitlement reductions, and a cap on future expenditures and revenue increases right now.
This is silly because this implies that they do not expect in the future to have any more political firepower than they do at present: if within the next ten years they can control both branches of Congress and/or the Presidency they have a much better shot at achieving their goals without any sacrifices for the sake of political compromise. It could only take 2 years for them to turn a long, drawn out fight into the easiest bill to ever get signed into law, but they won't wait.
Maybe they expect to get demographic'd into irrelevance within half a decade, that's the only way I can explain the fervor with which the GOP is demanding enormous concessions from Democrats while refusing to compromise on their own pet issues. It makes no sense to not strike a bargain now and hold out for the chance to pass a much more sweeping and permanent bill. Hell if they lose this game of chicken they're not going to have anything left to govern.