RamiusJoined: July 19, 2000Administrator, ClubPAadmin
edited March 2007
1) It's good to be the king.
2) Squasha, you got an infraction warning the last time you tried to make that lame joke. Granted, that was a misunderstanding, but that doesn't make it less lame. I think you should give it a rest.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Does my having and using an ignore function hurt you? No. Does my having and using an ignore function greatly increase my enjoyment of the forums? Yes.
If it doesn't hurt you, and it makes me enjoy the forums way more, I see no reason to get rid of it. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't mean that you have to take mine away from me.
Does my having and using an ignore function hurt you? No. Does my having and using an ignore function greatly increase my enjoyment of the forums? Yes.
If it doesn't hurt you, and it makes me enjoy the forums way more, I see no reason to get rid of it. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't mean that you have to take mine away from me.
I think you're ignoring the fact that people can't help but be douches with it.
It's like handing out drumsets to the 2nd grade class at Retard Elementary, because, hey, Keith Moon did great things with it, right?
I have been known to speak out against the ignore list.
I know no one would ever use it against my well-loved ass, but I ahte it nonetheless.
Nap, you are mistaken to some degree. Giving everyone the ability to make this place what they want it to be instead of what it is inevitably changes what it is.
I mean, I agree with Engy that the doomsday scenario isn't immediately likely, but the reasoning is the same nonetheless. You can say that ignoring me doesn't affect me or whatever. But, in D&D, for example, just a few key forumers could choose to ignore one another, and suddenly a good chunk of interesting conversation would be nerfed altogether, and that affects everyone.
And I also agree with Elks, people posting redundant shit that's already been said is annoying enough as it is.
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RamiusJoined: July 19, 2000Administrator, ClubPAadmin
edited March 2007
Assuming you could only ignore a maximum of, say, 3 people...Would that change anyones feelings about the feature?
I've been watching from afar, and I have to agree with Naporeon
If it's not hurting you, so what? If someone is a blantent douchebag with it, then address that as it comes.
And I don't see how limiting the amount of people you can ignore is going to solve anything. People are going to complain about the ignore function if it's there or not. Just like sigs (though we can turn them off), and just like avs or whatever else.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2007
Humans have an instinctive nature to complicate things... and they WILL find a way to do it. Complaining is just one tool among many in that toolkit.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I've been watching from afar, and I have to agree with Naporeon
If it's not hurting you, so what? If someone is a blantent douchebag with it, then address that as it comes.
Again, you're just ignoring the externalities that go along with it.
Just because one specific person ignoring another specific person doesn't hurt me doesn't mean that having an ignore function doesn't hurt the forum as a whole.
I mean, really, I don't have kids, I'm over 18, so why should I care if we abolish compulsory education? It doesn't affect me, until, down the road, the country has become third-world because of it.
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
If we have it, people complain that they're being ignored, someone's being a douche about it, etc
If we don't have it, people complain that they can't ignore someone's posts because they're being retarded or because they never contribute
I have yet to see a real situation where the ignore function is being abused (outside of someone rubbing the ignore function in someone else's face), so of course I don't see why it would need to go.
If we have it, people complain that they're being ignored, someone's being a douche about it, etc
If we don't have it, people complain that they can't ignore someone's posts because they're being retarded or because they never contribute
I have yet to see a real situation where the ignore function is being abused (outside of someone rubbing the ignore function in someone else's face), so of course I don't see why it would need to go.
It's kinda like a global warming problem, where by the time you've noticed the change for the worse, there's not really anything you can do about it.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2007
The way I see it, reither keep it or remove it, but just stop agonising over the decision. It isn't really a problem, and much ado about nothing is being made of the possibility of it becoming a problem. Flip a coin, if that is what you need to do.
There are no bad features, only bad forumers.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
This would be the using ignore instead of bothering a mod/admin argument in action.
90% of the forum is using Firefox.
Adblock it.
And the 10% of the people who don't use firefox? We use the ignore function.
And I'm sure as hell not switching to Firefox on a mac, I like Safari.
Yes, well, so, of the people who saw that thread, who are also freaked out by spiders, 10% aren't using Firefox.
So, like, two people? Maybe three? On a one-time thing? Yeah, I see how that's worth putting in a function that risks totally changing the forum culture as a whole.
Not to mention that they'd have to have already seen the picture in order to be able to know to ignore the user in the first place.
Does my having and using an ignore function hurt you? No. Does my having and using an ignore function greatly increase my enjoyment of the forums? Yes.
If it doesn't hurt you, and it makes me enjoy the forums way more, I see no reason to get rid of it. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't mean that you have to take mine away from me.
I think you're ignoring the fact that people can't help but be douches with it.
It's like handing out drumsets to the 2nd grade class at Retard Elementary, because, hey, Keith Moon did great things with it, right?
It seems like the great majority of people can't help but be douches in their posts.
Perhaps we should remove that, next?
There is a level of self-policing involved in any forum, Than. You have to trust people not to be dipshits. If this greatly improves my experience, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then why change it? I know that I'd be pissed if it were removed.
There is a level of self-policing involved in any forum, Than. You have to trust people not to be dipshits. If this greatly improves my experience, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then why change it? I know that I'd be pissed if it were removed.
This is where we're having our fundamental disagreement, here.
You say it doesn't, and I say the negative externalities that go along with it does.
Not to mention that they'd have to have already seen the picture in order to be able to know to ignore the user in the first place.
Seriously. But out of curiosity, it sounds like this whole "oh noes! spiders!" thing happened in SE++. So, assuming some asshat decides to do such a thing in a cute little kitten thread, is that the kind of thing an infraction would be handed out over, assuming it was reported? Because if not, that might actually be justification for keeping the ignore function. That way the person who doesn't feel like seeing a bunch of bullshit posts like that can simply ignore them and continue to participate.
Though how much I care about a cat thread I'm not sure.
Assuming you could only ignore a maximum of, say, 3 people...Would that change anyones feelings about the feature?
Yeah, that'd make it less objectionable. I'd almost go 2, but at that point it's quibbling. This way you can't simply ignore half a forum, you actually have to choose who is a big enough asshat to be worth a slot in your list. And it would still solve the above "cat thread" problem (however much it's a problem, and however much it can even be solved).
Though (and while I know it would require some announcement ahead of time) the whole "I'm ignoring you" thing really should be infraction-worthy. I've yet to see it here (well, I think I saw it over in SE++ like once), but I've seen it elsewhere and it's obnoxious as all fuck.
It seems like the great majority of people can't help but be douches in their posts.
Perhaps we should remove that, next?
There is a level of self-policing involved in any forum, Than. You have to trust people not to be dipshits. If this greatly improves my experience, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then why change it? I know that I'd be pissed if it were removed.
How did you ever manage for the years that we haven't had an ignore function?
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RamiusJoined: July 19, 2000Administrator, ClubPAadmin
It's kinda like a global warming problem, where by the time you've noticed the change for the worse, there's not really anything you can do about it.
ummm.... WHAT?! o_O
1) It's nothing like global warming
2) There's always something I can do about it. I can make it as though there never was an ignore feature in 2 minutes or less.
3) The doomsday scenarios with respect to the ignore feature are greatly exaggerated, especially since the maximum number of people you can add to your ignore list has been set to 3 for several weeks now.
It's kinda like a global warming problem, where by the time you've noticed the change for the worse, there's not really anything you can do about it.
ummm.... WHAT?! o_O
1) It's nothing like global warming
2) There's always something I can do about it. I can make it as though there never was an ignore feature in 2 minutes or less.
3) The doomsday scenarios with respect to the ignore feature are greatly exaggerated, especially since the maximum number of people you can add to your ignore list has been set to 3 for several weeks now.
I realize there's always something you can do about it, but by the point we've noticed it's become a problem, the damage is done.
I realize the doomsday scenario is exaggerated, but I think it can have a more subtle, insidious effect than a lot of people seem to think.
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EvilBadmanDO NOT TRUST THIS MANRegistered Userregular
This is where we're having our fundamental disagreement, here.
You say it doesn't, and I say the negative externalities that go along with it does.
If I want to ignore, say, five or six people who I just simply don't get along with, how is that going to harm anyone? Like someone else said, people are suggesting that we just "skip over" posts we don't want to read...how is this any less negative than having an ignore list and getting to pretend that they just don't exist?
If anything, I would think that not flaming them (or, for that matter, giving them ANY sort of attention) would actually help the forums, if it in fact had any observable effect.
It seems like the great majority of people can't help but be douches in their posts.
Perhaps we should remove that, next?
There is a level of self-policing involved in any forum, Than. You have to trust people not to be dipshits. If this greatly improves my experience, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then why change it? I know that I'd be pissed if it were removed.
How did you ever manage for the years that we haven't had an ignore function?
Wow. What a sad and fallacious argumentative style that is.
I mean, there was a point that most of us can remember...before cell phones, mp3 players, sophisticated gaming consoles, and efficient home computers. We all seemed happy enough before them, so I guess you wouldn't be pissed if you had to give them up? I mean, that's your reasoning, right?
Just because we've made do without things before doesn't mean that we'd be happy going back to not having them, friend.
This is where we're having our fundamental disagreement, here.
You say it doesn't, and I say the negative externalities that go along with it does.
If I want to ignore, say, five or six people who I just simply don't get along with, how is that going to harm anyone? Like someone else said, people are suggesting that we just "skip over" posts we don't want to read...how is this any less negative than having an ignore list and getting to pretend that they just don't exist?
If anything, I would think that not flaming them (or, for that matter, giving them ANY sort of attention) would actually help the forums, if it in fact had any observable effect.
If my kid wants to go to work instead of going to school, how is that going to harm anyone? If I don't pay my taxes, the government won't even notice, so why should they even bother collecting from me?
Actions which have no effect on anything at small scales can have large effects on everything when taken to larger scales. If you were the only one with an ignore function, I wouldn't give a shit, but since everyone has one, we have to take into account what happens when everyone is doing things with it.
This is where we're having our fundamental disagreement, here.
You say it doesn't, and I say the negative externalities that go along with it does.
If I want to ignore, say, five or six people who I just simply don't get along with, how is that going to harm anyone? Like someone else said, people are suggesting that we just "skip over" posts we don't want to read...how is this any less negative than having an ignore list and getting to pretend that they just don't exist?
If anything, I would think that not flaming them (or, for that matter, giving them ANY sort of attention) would actually help the forums, if it in fact had any observable effect.
If my kid wants to go to work instead of going to school, how is that going to harm anyone? If I don't pay my taxes, the government won't even notice, so why should they even bother collecting from me?
Actions which have no effect on anything at small scales can have large effects on everything when taken to larger scales. If you were the only one with an ignore function, I wouldn't give a shit, but since everyone has one, we have to take into account what happens when everyone is doing things with it.
Yes, and I am not asking how that applies to false analogies.
I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
How did you ever manage for the years that we haven't had an ignore function?
Wow. What a sad and fallacious argumentative style that is.
I mean, there was a point that most of us can remember...before cell phones, mp3 players, sophisticated gaming consoles, and efficient home computers. We all seemed happy enough before them, so I guess you wouldn't be pissed if you had to give them up? I mean, that's your reasoning, right?
Just because we've made do without things before doesn't mean that we'd be happy going back to not having them, friend.
Except that long after we had internet forums, and long after other forums had an ignore function, we were fine without one. The masses weren't clamoring for one. I'd be interested to see a poll (has there been one) of forum members as a whole as to whether we should have one, shouldn't have one, or whether they just don't give a shit. I know that last one would win, but I'm wondering what would come in second.
Hell, want me to really blow your mind? I don't like cellphones either, and if Ramius could turn those off too I'd probably ask him to.
You're acting as though the ignore function is nothing but a positive that has no drawbacks whatsoever (like, say, faster/efficient computers or gaming consoles). I think it has subtle but very real drawbacks. Enough that I'd not mind seeing it go.
I mean, the ignore function isn't sliced bread or electricity or birth control pills or anything.
Yes, and I am not asking how that applies to false analogies.
I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
You'd still be able to see what they were posting, and if you posted the same thing a few posts down, we could call you retarded without you having the "oh, he's on my ignore list" crutch to lean on. People will just ignore someone, instead of posting pictures of themselves adding people to their ignore lists, or saying "so ignored" and such.
How did you ever manage for the years that we haven't had an ignore function?
Wow. What a sad and fallacious argumentative style that is.
I mean, there was a point that most of us can remember...before cell phones, mp3 players, sophisticated gaming consoles, and efficient home computers. We all seemed happy enough before them, so I guess you wouldn't be pissed if you had to give them up? I mean, that's your reasoning, right?
Just because we've made do without things before doesn't mean that we'd be happy going back to not having them, friend.
Except that long after we had internet forums, and long after other forums had an ignore function, we were fine without one. The masses weren't clamoring for one. I'd be interested to see a poll (has there been one) of forum members as a whole as to whether we should have one, shouldn't have one, or whether they just don't give a shit. I know that last one would win, but I'm wondering what would come in second.
Hell, want me to really blow your mind? I don't like cellphones either, and if Ramius could turn those off too I'd probably ask him to.
You're acting as though the ignore function is nothing but a positive that has no drawbacks whatsoever (like, say, faster/efficient computers or gaming consoles). I think it has subtle but very real drawbacks. Enough that I'd not mind seeing it go.
I mean, the ignore function isn't sliced bread or electricity or birth control pills or anything
Ha. I'm no fan of cellphones either.
What "subtle but very real drawbacks" do you envision this having, man? How is my ability to completely pretend that someone doesn't exist going to hurt the forums, even assuming that I have maxed out my list, and have three people ignored? Even if everyone does that, people are still seeing virtually everyone, whereas the posters who annoy them most are practically invisible. The benefits would appear to be self-evident: happier posters, less flaming, etc. But where are these drawbacks you mention?
Yes, and I am not asking how that applies to false analogies.
I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
You'd still be able to see what they were posting, and if you posted the same thing a few posts down, we could call you retarded without you having the "oh, he's on my ignore list" crutch to lean on. People will just ignore someone, instead of posting pictures of themselves adding people to their ignore lists, or saying "so ignored" and such.
Right.
But I'm asking what is being hurt in this instance.
How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
Posts
I think so, yeah. I would hardly classify those as "shock images". More like "startle and dismay" images.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
:winky:
2) Squasha, you got an infraction warning the last time you tried to make that lame joke. Granted, that was a misunderstanding, but that doesn't make it less lame. I think you should give it a rest.
Yeah... this is why I dislike the ignore function. People can't help but be blatant douches with it.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Does my having and using an ignore function hurt you? No. Does my having and using an ignore function greatly increase my enjoyment of the forums? Yes.
If it doesn't hurt you, and it makes me enjoy the forums way more, I see no reason to get rid of it. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't mean that you have to take mine away from me.
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
It's like handing out drumsets to the 2nd grade class at Retard Elementary, because, hey, Keith Moon did great things with it, right?
I know no one would ever use it against my well-loved ass, but I ahte it nonetheless.
Nap, you are mistaken to some degree. Giving everyone the ability to make this place what they want it to be instead of what it is inevitably changes what it is.
I mean, I agree with Engy that the doomsday scenario isn't immediately likely, but the reasoning is the same nonetheless. You can say that ignoring me doesn't affect me or whatever. But, in D&D, for example, just a few key forumers could choose to ignore one another, and suddenly a good chunk of interesting conversation would be nerfed altogether, and that affects everyone.
And I also agree with Elks, people posting redundant shit that's already been said is annoying enough as it is.
If it's not hurting you, so what? If someone is a blantent douchebag with it, then address that as it comes.
And I don't see how limiting the amount of people you can ignore is going to solve anything. People are going to complain about the ignore function if it's there or not. Just like sigs (though we can turn them off), and just like avs or whatever else.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Just because one specific person ignoring another specific person doesn't hurt me doesn't mean that having an ignore function doesn't hurt the forum as a whole.
I mean, really, I don't have kids, I'm over 18, so why should I care if we abolish compulsory education? It doesn't affect me, until, down the road, the country has become third-world because of it.
This would be the using ignore instead of bothering a mod/admin argument in action.
If we have it, people complain that they're being ignored, someone's being a douche about it, etc
If we don't have it, people complain that they can't ignore someone's posts because they're being retarded or because they never contribute
I have yet to see a real situation where the ignore function is being abused (outside of someone rubbing the ignore function in someone else's face), so of course I don't see why it would need to go.
Adblock it.
There are no bad features, only bad forumers.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The point wasn't the pictures thing.
The point was Tube sarcastically saying "Oh Boo Hoo," to a minor issue easily solved by ignore.
Also, I agree with Bri, this thread has an intermittent life span over the past month. Someone pull the trigger already (or don't).
And the 10% of the people who don't use firefox? We use the ignore function.
And I'm sure as hell not switching to Firefox on a mac, I like Safari.
I would say it's the not being a giant pussy in action.
So, like, two people? Maybe three? On a one-time thing? Yeah, I see how that's worth putting in a function that risks totally changing the forum culture as a whole.
Not to mention that they'd have to have already seen the picture in order to be able to know to ignore the user in the first place.
Perhaps we should remove that, next?
There is a level of self-policing involved in any forum, Than. You have to trust people not to be dipshits. If this greatly improves my experience, and doesn't hurt anyone else, then why change it? I know that I'd be pissed if it were removed.
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
You say it doesn't, and I say the negative externalities that go along with it does.
Seriously. But out of curiosity, it sounds like this whole "oh noes! spiders!" thing happened in SE++. So, assuming some asshat decides to do such a thing in a cute little kitten thread, is that the kind of thing an infraction would be handed out over, assuming it was reported? Because if not, that might actually be justification for keeping the ignore function. That way the person who doesn't feel like seeing a bunch of bullshit posts like that can simply ignore them and continue to participate.
Though how much I care about a cat thread I'm not sure.
Yeah, that'd make it less objectionable. I'd almost go 2, but at that point it's quibbling. This way you can't simply ignore half a forum, you actually have to choose who is a big enough asshat to be worth a slot in your list. And it would still solve the above "cat thread" problem (however much it's a problem, and however much it can even be solved).
Though (and while I know it would require some announcement ahead of time) the whole "I'm ignoring you" thing really should be infraction-worthy. I've yet to see it here (well, I think I saw it over in SE++ like once), but I've seen it elsewhere and it's obnoxious as all fuck.
How did you ever manage for the years that we haven't had an ignore function?
ummm.... WHAT?! o_O
1) It's nothing like global warming
2) There's always something I can do about it. I can make it as though there never was an ignore feature in 2 minutes or less.
3) The doomsday scenarios with respect to the ignore feature are greatly exaggerated, especially since the maximum number of people you can add to your ignore list has been set to 3 for several weeks now.
I realize the doomsday scenario is exaggerated, but I think it can have a more subtle, insidious effect than a lot of people seem to think.
Your empathy is amazing, sire.
If anything, I would think that not flaming them (or, for that matter, giving them ANY sort of attention) would actually help the forums, if it in fact had any observable effect.
Wow. What a sad and fallacious argumentative style that is.
I mean, there was a point that most of us can remember...before cell phones, mp3 players, sophisticated gaming consoles, and efficient home computers. We all seemed happy enough before them, so I guess you wouldn't be pissed if you had to give them up? I mean, that's your reasoning, right?
Just because we've made do without things before doesn't mean that we'd be happy going back to not having them, friend.
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
seriously.
It's just a couple spider pictures in a thread about cat pictures. No empathy is required.
Actions which have no effect on anything at small scales can have large effects on everything when taken to larger scales. If you were the only one with an ignore function, I wouldn't give a shit, but since everyone has one, we have to take into account what happens when everyone is doing things with it.
I love spiders.
I am not a fan of cats. More indifferent, I'd say.
Some of those spiders were almost cute, though.
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
Except that long after we had internet forums, and long after other forums had an ignore function, we were fine without one. The masses weren't clamoring for one. I'd be interested to see a poll (has there been one) of forum members as a whole as to whether we should have one, shouldn't have one, or whether they just don't give a shit. I know that last one would win, but I'm wondering what would come in second.
Hell, want me to really blow your mind? I don't like cellphones either, and if Ramius could turn those off too I'd probably ask him to.
You're acting as though the ignore function is nothing but a positive that has no drawbacks whatsoever (like, say, faster/efficient computers or gaming consoles). I think it has subtle but very real drawbacks. Enough that I'd not mind seeing it go.
I mean, the ignore function isn't sliced bread or electricity or birth control pills or anything.
What "subtle but very real drawbacks" do you envision this having, man? How is my ability to completely pretend that someone doesn't exist going to hurt the forums, even assuming that I have maxed out my list, and have three people ignored? Even if everyone does that, people are still seeing virtually everyone, whereas the posters who annoy them most are practically invisible. The benefits would appear to be self-evident: happier posters, less flaming, etc. But where are these drawbacks you mention?
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)
But I'm asking what is being hurt in this instance.
How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
Twitter | Facebook | Tumblr | Last.fm | Pandora | LibraryThing | formspring | Blue Moon over Seattle (MCFC)