I find I don't even need the torches, I use em to put on pressure pads when I am not dumping useless mage staffs and what not on them pressure pads. Heck, I find the torches screw with my night vision, yo.
My totally unoptimized team of human warriors in front & rogues in back are strolling through this place like they own it, slinging rocks and throwing shurikens from afar like a beast. They use all these magic spell scrolls for cigars and toilet paper.
I think next time I playthrough this, I may go with an all rogue team.
A full group of Riddicks. It makes too much sense.
Chronicles of Riddicks: Escape from Grimrock
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
Oh you're saying you you're fine without a mage and you're on level 4. That makes a lot more sense.
edit:
Speaking of level 4
the areas where you fall through level there is a section i can't get to (behind the grate but not the center drop) am i just missing a switch?
You need to fall through the trap door in the center of the central area where you get the scrolls to solve the main puzzle. There's another set of trap doors after one of the teleport dungeons that will be to your left with a rectangular wall switch. Press that and you'll be able to drop through, if I'm remembering it right.
edit: Oh wait, yeah. Sorry, I haven't figured that one out either. I'm thinking maybe you actually access that on the 4th floor.
I am thinking there is a secret pit somewhere in the catacombs. But i can't find anything there. I think this because that is the area where you would have to fall through in order to access it
edit: and i can't think of a way for you to get there from level 5. Maybe you come from below level 6?
edit 2: confirmed that you get there from level 6, not sure how though
The more I think about it the more I realize that the linear stats (Dexterity and Strength) are a lot less important than the exponential stats ( Will and Vitality). The accuracy and attack power granted by your skills and equipment completely overpower the bonuses granted by Dexterity and Strength. What is a big bonus at the beginning of the game becomes small and not very significant latter on. On the other hand, points in Vitality keep giving more and more health as the game progresses, and Will does the same for Energy.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
Someone needs to make a spoiler free list that is simply how many secrets you should have found by the end of each level. Unless there are multi level puzzles. In which case, fuck.
Someone needs to make a spoiler free list that is simply how many secrets you should have found by the end of each level. Unless there are multi level puzzles. In which case, fuck.
Not really a spoiler (honestly) but just in case
There are some secrets for a floor that can only be accessed by entering the floor through a different entrance.
Right, I only ask because the slimes seem to be attacking me through bars, but I can't attack them through bars.
That makes no sense. I've tried thrown weapons, shooting weapons, aoe spells and bolt spells.
Can't attack slimes through bars, it's part of their charm
Do note that the bars act as layer though, so only the 2 party members exposed to the edge of the attack will face a roll for dmg/hit. In open ground all four party members would be exposed to that attack.
Slimes just might be special. Kind of makes sense actually. If anything should be able to attack through bars, it should be a pile of amorphic goo
On an unrelated note, Zhandul's Orb:
That was such a satisfying puzzle. I actually had that bone necklace on my fire/ice mage since I first found it, for flavor. It's fitting that he got to use it to get an awesome orb
In general I really like the puzzles in this. I'm normally the type of person to get really frustrated at puzzle games, but something about LoG is different.
Right, I only ask because the slimes seem to be attacking me through bars, but I can't attack them through bars.
That makes no sense. I've tried thrown weapons, shooting weapons, aoe spells and bolt spells.
Can't attack slimes through bars, it's part of their charm
Do note that the bars act as layer though, so only the 2 party members exposed to the edge of the attack will face a roll for dmg/hit. In open ground all four party members would be exposed to that attack.
That's just weird. Where's the consistency? They can attack through, but pcs can't? It's small things like this that make me wish the game had more time to polish the mechanics.
It's obviously intentional and I feel it fits the enemy. There is a reason the area that has lots of slimes also has lots of bars. Yes they are annoying and it makes that area a challenge, but it is a dungeon after all and challenge comes with rewards.
Stupid slimes. I don't even need the damn reward, but my OCD won't let me quit :P I've decided to go Axes on my warrior, since swords are +energy and maces are +vit. My tohit on my warrior atm is shocking, so it's time to actually commit to a weapon type.
Yeah, having a single enemy have a unique ability is not lack of polish, unique stuff like that takes time to put in.
You both missed my point. The lack of consistency shows a lack of polish. A slime can attack through bars, because that makes sense logically...but then so should a flurry of fire/ice, poison mist, a spear from the front line, etc. Game logic should be applied consistently.
It's not terrible, just silly imho. Not gonna quit playing this fine piece of entertainment because of the annoying slimes, just gonna bitch at them while hurling ice bolts.
Makes about as much sense as avoiding attacks by standing next to an enemy diagonally. Or as consistent as you being able to pull levels, but not humanoid enemies.
The more I think about it the more I realize that the linear stats (Dexterity and Strength) are a lot less important than the exponential stats ( Will and Vitality). The accuracy and attack power granted by your skills and equipment completely overpower the bonuses granted by Dexterity and Strength. What is a big bonus at the beginning of the game becomes small and not very significant latter on. On the other hand, points in Vitality keep giving more and more health as the game progresses, and Will does the same for Energy.
Will is a linear stat. Dexterity and vitality are the exponential stats.
So any thoughts on doing an insectoid warrior? Does the +2 protection trait do much or am I better off just taking the +2 strength?
Insectoids are kinda weak. But it would work.
Protection > strength.
Strength in general is not very valuable except for carrying stuff.
Edit: So basically as a warrior you need
A: Enough strength to carry your armor
B: Enough dex to hit at low levels(and well, ideally more for evasion/fire/shock resist)
C: Vitality vitality and more vitality Skillpoints in Armor/[weapon of choice, probably swords]
Everything else is superfluous.
Skillpoints in armor will increase your protection [i think] beyond the listed bonuses just as skillpoints in dodge increase your evasion beyond the listed bonuses.
Insectoids start at a skillpoint disadvantage, with a vitality and strength disadvantage. This makes them poor warriors, outclassed by pretty much everyone even if they can get the highest protection values (by 5)
Also: Dex and Vit are exponential scaling abilities, while str and will are linear. So if you're going to be going up a tree with dex or vit in it, consider that extra points there will be worth more than extra points in other abilities.
sword spoiler
there is a really really good sword on level 6, but its hard to get.
So any thoughts on doing an insectoid warrior? Does the +2 protection trait do much or am I better off just taking the +2 strength?
Insectoids are kinda weak. But it would work.
Protection > strength.
Strength in general is not very valuable except for carrying stuff.
Edit: So basically as a warrior you need
A: Enough strength to carry your armor
B: Enough dex to hit at low levels(and well, ideally more for evasion/fire/shock resist)
C: Vitality vitality and more vitality Skillpoints in Armor/[weapon of choice, probably swords]
Everything else is superfluous.
Skillpoints in armor will increase your protection [i think] beyond the listed bonuses just as skillpoints in dodge increase your evasion beyond the listed bonuses.
Insectoids start at a skillpoint disadvantage, with a vitality and strength disadvantage. This makes them poor warriors, outclassed by pretty much everyone even if they can get the highest protection values (by 5)
Also: Dex and Vit are exponential scaling abilities, while str and will are linear. So if you're going to be going up a tree with dex or vit in it, consider that extra points there will be worth more than extra points in other abilities.
sword spoiler
there is a really really good sword on level 6, but its hard to get.
Yeah. The idea is more to make one to just make one, rather than be optimal. I haven't played super far into the game yet, how much weight are we talking with the heavy armor? My plan was to go with maces to get the bonuses to Vit.
I think next time I playthrough this, I may go with an all rogue team.
I'm thinking three rogues and an air magic mage.
Invisibility/darkness goes well with backstabbing, and enchanted arrows go well with the bow skill. Plus elemental shields for later on.
Wrt your spoiler (I talk about creatures)
I agree as I find the air element enemies infinitely less annoying than fire/poison/ice despite their high dmg (which you could then shield.) I used a pure fire Mage and found killing the fire guys a pain as a result.
By the end of the game, my Minotaur warrior couldn't carry anything other than his heavy armour, mace and skulls. I possibly could have pumped some more starter str in to him.
Edit: tell a lie, even that put him in a slow state. 64.2kg of weight (the mace was 13 alone). His max load listed as 72 with 19 str.
Wait, so there's a bitchin sword on 6? I'm on 5, and my warrior has not specialised into a specific weapon yet. Axes look good on paper, should I rather go swords?
Wait, so there's a bitchin sword on 6? I'm on 5, and my warrior has not specialised into a specific weapon yet. Axes look good on paper, should I rather go swords?
Did you miss the machete? I am on level 3 or 4 at the moment and I have had this sword for a bit. It probably doesn't matter much which you pick as long as you pick something - I got an unarmed guy who is probably my best damage and melee hitter but I didn't plan it that way necessarily, he is no minotaur with skulls I haven't bothered picking up, that's for sure.
Oh and all you missile skill point rogue folks, I figured out something that should help you out: the ammo for the slings is rocks, which you need to have in the other hand of the rogue for it to use it as ammo - found 9 rocks so far, that's the most ammo of anything really. So you can be doing missiles like a beast before you find the bow a few piddly arrows.
Just finished up my first run on Old School. Fantastic game and I feel like I have missed so much stuff. Going to start a hard run soon but this time with the map enabled to help pinpoint those secrets.
How is the difficulty level on this? Is all this min/max talk just for academic funsies or is it actually required for hard mode?
I'm personally hoping that just playing on normal and flailing my through with what choices seems good at the time will do.
It depends on how you play the game. Some people don't understand this type of game or make mistakes because stuff is poorly explained (by design?) and they run out of food or put one point in every skill and thus can't cast any spells, etc.
Several people have said they're even disappointed in the difficulty in hard mode. Resting to recover is easy, dancing around enemies to avoid getting hit isn't too difficult either.
Wait, so there's a bitchin sword on 6? I'm on 5, and my warrior has not specialised into a specific weapon yet. Axes look good on paper, should I rather go swords?
Did you miss the machete? I am on level 3 or 4 at the moment and I have had this sword for a bit. It probably doesn't matter much which you pick as long as you pick something - I got an unarmed guy who is probably my best damage and melee hitter but I didn't plan it that way necessarily, he is no minotaur with skulls I haven't bothered picking up, that's for sure.
Oh and all you missile skill point rogue folks, I figured out something that should help you out: the ammo for the slings is rocks, which you need to have in the other hand of the rogue for it to use it as ammo - found 9 rocks so far, that's the most ammo of anything really. So you can be doing missiles like a beast before you find the bow a few piddly arrows.
I have 2 swords, 2 axes, 2 maces, 4 daggers and a spear.
Wait, so there's a bitchin sword on 6? I'm on 5, and my warrior has not specialised into a specific weapon yet. Axes look good on paper, should I rather go swords?
Did you miss the machete? I am on level 3 or 4 at the moment and I have had this sword for a bit. It probably doesn't matter much which you pick as long as you pick something - I got an unarmed guy who is probably my best damage and melee hitter but I didn't plan it that way necessarily, he is no minotaur with skulls I haven't bothered picking up, that's for sure.
Oh and all you missile skill point rogue folks, I figured out something that should help you out: the ammo for the slings is rocks, which you need to have in the other hand of the rogue for it to use it as ammo - found 9 rocks so far, that's the most ammo of anything really. So you can be doing missiles like a beast before you find the bow a few piddly arrows.
I have 2 swords, 2 axes, 2 maces, 4 daggers and a spear.
You are pimpin' pack rat
Specialize in whatever you feel like, I have been totally unoptimized in my warriors, I switched out mace for sword on one, so those points just sit there unused but it doesn't seem to make any difference, maybe I'll even switch back. My points are basicly ending up where-ever the latest bit o'treasure I found is, I suppose I will get around to dagger points for the rogues at some point, maybe *shrugs*
I think it would be a mistake to put points in something you haven't found yet though but that's just my play style of this game. The game doesn't seem to be punishing me for it either, rather its proving rather rewarding.
Speaking of rewarding, getting a trap to trigger that was obviously meant to go off when you stand on it is a blast
@Goumindong: Nope. Will Power works like Vitality for Energy. I just did some SCIENCE and it appears that this is how it works:
Each level every character gains 1-3 Health and 1-3 Energy. These values are random and are not modified by class. Then each character gains (respectively) 1 Health for every 2 points of Vitality above 10 and 1 Energy for every 2 points of Will Power above 10.
I am not sure on the 1-3 figure since I tested this on the levelup from level 1 to 2. This might change latter. I'll report back when I level to 3.
I get what you are saying about Evasion and Accuracy being exponential, but a bit of dexterity gives you a very small bonus when compared to the same amount of Vitality - which, if the above trend continues throughout all of the levels - more than doubles your HP. I am not seeing a bit of Evasion matching that. Doubling your HP is more or less the equivalent of halving all damage taken. Furthermore, since ranged attacks do not miss, Evasion is useless against them while Health still works.
Grey Paladin on
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
Specialize in whatever you feel like, I have been totally unoptimized in my warriors, I switched out mace for sword on one, so those points just sit there unused but it doesn't seem to make any difference, maybe I'll even switch back. My points are basicly ending up where-ever the latest bit o'treasure I found is, I suppose I will get around to dagger points for the rogues at some point, maybe *shrugs*
I think it would be a mistake to put points in something you haven't found yet though but that's just my play style of this game. The game doesn't seem to be punishing me for it either, rather its proving rather rewarding.
Actually, on the subject of wasting skill points, I've read spoilers on about how many you'll end up with:
Several people have reported ending the game at level 13, which means about 50 skill points from levels. So if you want to reach the end of a skill set, you'll have to be dedicated.
@Goumindong: Nope. Will Power works like Vitality for Energy. I just did some SCIENCE and it appears that this is how it works:
Each level every character gains 1-3 Health and 1-3 Energy. These values are random and are not modified by class. Then each character gains (respectively) 1 Health for every 2 points of Vitality above 10 and 1 Energy for every 2 points of Will Power above 10.
I am not sure on the 1-3 figure since I tested this on the levelup from level 1 to 2. This might change latter. I'll report back when I level to 3.
I get what you are saying about Evasion and Accuracy being exponential, but a bit of dexterity gives you a very small bonus when compared to the same amount of Vitality - which, if the above trend continues throughout all of the levels - more than doubles your HP. I am not seeing a bit of Evasion matching that. Doubling your HP is more or less the equivalent of halving all damage taken. Furthermore, since ranged attacks do not miss, Evasion is useless against them while Health still works.
What you're describing is linear.
If you have 10 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP+starting
if you have 15 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP+starting + 12.5 + 50
If you have 20 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP + starting + 25 + 100
At each level for each point of vitality you have you gain a fixed and linearly increasing amount.
But dexterity and vitality are actually exponential. For each point of dex and vit you gain you gain a further bonus to resist shock/fire and cold/poison which increases the higher the level of the statistic.
That is, when you go from 10 to 11, you gain 1. When you go from 12 to 13 you gain three. When you go from 16 to 17 you gain four when you go from 18 to 19 you gain 5. (this may go up further, but i think it starts to stall though still increasing.)
Evasion similarly increases at an increasing rate, but its not as drastic
The hit point and energy point scaling are linear as accuracy. What isn't linear is how resistance scale and resistances scale entirely off of dexterity and vitality.
Such dexterity and vitality are the exponential scaling values
Posts
edit:
Speaking of level 4
A full group of Riddicks. It makes too much sense.
Chronicles of Riddicks: Escape from Grimrock
edit: Oh wait, yeah. Sorry, I haven't figured that one out either. I'm thinking maybe you actually access that on the 4th floor.
edit: and i can't think of a way for you to get there from level 5. Maybe you come from below level 6?
edit 2: confirmed that you get there from level 6, not sure how though
You thought correctly.
I did it right first time following the scroll so I'm unaware of how it can stop you.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
That makes no sense. I've tried thrown weapons, shooting weapons, aoe spells and bolt spells.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Not really a spoiler (honestly) but just in case
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Can't attack slimes through bars, it's part of their charm
Do note that the bars act as layer though, so only the 2 party members exposed to the edge of the attack will face a roll for dmg/hit. In open ground all four party members would be exposed to that attack.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
On an unrelated note, Zhandul's Orb:
In general I really like the puzzles in this. I'm normally the type of person to get really frustrated at puzzle games, but something about LoG is different.
That's just weird. Where's the consistency? They can attack through, but pcs can't? It's small things like this that make me wish the game had more time to polish the mechanics.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
You both missed my point. The lack of consistency shows a lack of polish. A slime can attack through bars, because that makes sense logically...but then so should a flurry of fire/ice, poison mist, a spear from the front line, etc. Game logic should be applied consistently.
It's not terrible, just silly imho. Not gonna quit playing this fine piece of entertainment because of the annoying slimes, just gonna bitch at them while hurling ice bolts.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Will is a linear stat. Dexterity and vitality are the exponential stats.
Insectoids are kinda weak. But it would work.
Protection > strength.
Strength in general is not very valuable except for carrying stuff.
Edit: So basically as a warrior you need
A: Enough strength to carry your armor
B: Enough dex to hit at low levels(and well, ideally more for evasion/fire/shock resist)
C: Vitality vitality and more vitality
Everything else is superfluous.
Skillpoints in armor will increase your protection [i think] beyond the listed bonuses just as skillpoints in dodge increase your evasion beyond the listed bonuses.
Insectoids start at a skillpoint disadvantage, with a vitality and strength disadvantage. This makes them poor warriors, outclassed by pretty much everyone even if they can get the highest protection values (by 5)
Also: Dex and Vit are exponential scaling abilities, while str and will are linear. So if you're going to be going up a tree with dex or vit in it, consider that extra points there will be worth more than extra points in other abilities.
sword spoiler
I'm thinking three rogues and an air magic mage.
Yeah. The idea is more to make one to just make one, rather than be optimal. I haven't played super far into the game yet, how much weight are we talking with the heavy armor? My plan was to go with maces to get the bonuses to Vit.
Wrt your spoiler (I talk about creatures)
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Edit: tell a lie, even that put him in a slow state. 64.2kg of weight (the mace was 13 alone). His max load listed as 72 with 19 str.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
I'm personally hoping that just playing on normal and flailing my through with what choices seems good at the time will do.
Did you miss the machete? I am on level 3 or 4 at the moment and I have had this sword for a bit. It probably doesn't matter much which you pick as long as you pick something - I got an unarmed guy who is probably my best damage and melee hitter but I didn't plan it that way necessarily, he is no minotaur with skulls I haven't bothered picking up, that's for sure.
Oh and all you missile skill point rogue folks, I figured out something that should help you out: the ammo for the slings is rocks, which you need to have in the other hand of the rogue for it to use it as ammo - found 9 rocks so far, that's the most ammo of anything really. So you can be doing missiles like a beast before you find the bow a few piddly arrows.
It depends on how you play the game. Some people don't understand this type of game or make mistakes because stuff is poorly explained (by design?) and they run out of food or put one point in every skill and thus can't cast any spells, etc.
Several people have said they're even disappointed in the difficulty in hard mode. Resting to recover is easy, dancing around enemies to avoid getting hit isn't too difficult either.
I have 2 swords, 2 axes, 2 maces, 4 daggers and a spear.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
You are pimpin' pack rat
Specialize in whatever you feel like, I have been totally unoptimized in my warriors, I switched out mace for sword on one, so those points just sit there unused but it doesn't seem to make any difference, maybe I'll even switch back. My points are basicly ending up where-ever the latest bit o'treasure I found is, I suppose I will get around to dagger points for the rogues at some point, maybe *shrugs*
I think it would be a mistake to put points in something you haven't found yet though but that's just my play style of this game. The game doesn't seem to be punishing me for it either, rather its proving rather rewarding.
Speaking of rewarding, getting a trap to trigger that was obviously meant to go off when you stand on it is a blast
http://steamcommunity.com/id/CanadianWolverine/screenshot/595841084704335003?tab=public
Each level every character gains 1-3 Health and 1-3 Energy. These values are random and are not modified by class. Then each character gains (respectively) 1 Health for every 2 points of Vitality above 10 and 1 Energy for every 2 points of Will Power above 10.
I am not sure on the 1-3 figure since I tested this on the levelup from level 1 to 2. This might change latter. I'll report back when I level to 3.
I get what you are saying about Evasion and Accuracy being exponential, but a bit of dexterity gives you a very small bonus when compared to the same amount of Vitality - which, if the above trend continues throughout all of the levels - more than doubles your HP. I am not seeing a bit of Evasion matching that. Doubling your HP is more or less the equivalent of halving all damage taken. Furthermore, since ranged attacks do not miss, Evasion is useless against them while Health still works.
Actually, on the subject of wasting skill points, I've read spoilers on about how many you'll end up with:
Edit: Just read the patch notes. Looks like I dont have to stop after all.
What you're describing is linear.
If you have 10 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP+starting
if you have 15 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP+starting + 12.5 + 50
If you have 20 vit at level 10 you will have 10-30 HP + starting + 25 + 100
At each level for each point of vitality you have you gain a fixed and linearly increasing amount.
But dexterity and vitality are actually exponential. For each point of dex and vit you gain you gain a further bonus to resist shock/fire and cold/poison which increases the higher the level of the statistic.
That is, when you go from 10 to 11, you gain 1. When you go from 12 to 13 you gain three. When you go from 16 to 17 you gain four when you go from 18 to 19 you gain 5. (this may go up further, but i think it starts to stall though still increasing.)
Evasion similarly increases at an increasing rate, but its not as drastic
The hit point and energy point scaling are linear as accuracy. What isn't linear is how resistance scale and resistances scale entirely off of dexterity and vitality.
Such dexterity and vitality are the exponential scaling values