I'm a little to ashamed to admit it, but since I knew the drag-and-drop interface was never going to work on a mobile browser, I never bothered to check how it looked.
That's not an unreasonable tradeoff to make. I can understand "make it work on a mobile browser" being thrown in the Will Not Fix bucket, but do you anticipate adding "make it display on a mobile browser"? Is there anything I can do to help?
As an additional data point, it's probably something resolution-related, since a collaborator with an iPad reports that it displays okay on that device.
I am playing Khorne (again).
I refuse to play the Bloodletter Upgrade.
So, I am looking at the other sorry collection of pathetic virtual cardboard.
If I pick the Bloodthirster Upgrade, can I summon Mr Angry to the same province as he started?
(This is useful as a "pass" turn.)
This does not appear to be in the FAQ...?
And The Horny Rat has won the last TWO RPT games, ...JUST
Horned Rat can and does win games, but it requires a very different style of play.
Magic Geek on
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mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
I agree; the Horned Rat is a god to be reckoned with. I do not think he is underpowered by any stretch of the imagination...
And about the Bloodthirster upgrade, I believe you can summon him to the same region.
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I'd say no to the Bloodthirster upgrade summoning to itself. You can't summon a regular unit to the same province to pass a turn and spend a point to delay.
I'd say no to the Bloodthirster upgrade summoning to itself. You can't summon a regular unit to the same province to pass a turn and spend a point to delay.
The FAQ says you can summon an upgraded(base game) great unclean one to the same region for corruption so should be the same with any other model. If you delay 'for free' with the bloodthirster you can't move him for free afterwards so seems cool to me.
You can always summon a figure to the same region it was already in. This is most useful with upgraded Morrslieb daemonettes (claim a cultist) and the upgraded Great Unclean One that drops corruption but there is no reason you couldn't do it with others. Summoning the upgraded Bloodthirster to the same region to delay is a fine play, as long as you realize that uses up his free summon for the round (as Overhamsteren said).
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
Yea, it's always been legal to summon units from a region to the same region they were in. Using it with base upgrade GUO is a prime example of this being a very useful play. It's just a rare play outside these fringe cases where you gain something.
I am playing Khorne (again).
I refuse to play the Bloodletter Upgrade.
So, I am looking at the other sorry collection of pathetic virtual cardboard.
If I pick the Bloodthirster Upgrade, can I summon Mr Angry to the same province as he started?
(This is useful as a "pass" turn.)
This does not appear to be in the FAQ...?
And The Horny Rat has won the last TWO RPT games, ...JUST
Horned Rat can and does win games, but it requires a very different style of play.
I love the cultist upgrade for Khorne, think it is amazing. Have you tried it with your normal VP strategy?
Horned Rat is winnable with, but as you said, is just very different. I found he was all about second place ruinations, basically any that happened I wanted second place and with UE you can get everywhere and keep the exact amount of troops there having the rest move on.
I do wonder if UE is totally neccessary for him though, thats the only question.
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mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
The Under Empire upgrade, I feel, is almost a necessity for the Horned Rat to take to congregate to regions at the brink of ruination. I think that it's brilliant that it allows the Rat's figures to be extremely mobile while bypassing the battle phase.
However, there are some Chaos cards that can do the job such as Grey Seer and Skitterleap so I suppose this upgrade isn't essential to win games.
I think the difference is that Grey Seer doesn't stop your rats getting killed to prevent you points. Skitterleap is a great card, but you are dependant on drawing it, in RPT3 I only drew one all game and that would not have been enough for me. Also it teams really well with UE.
I'll definitely check out the rpt games later, but so far I'm unimpressed with the rat.
The expansion is all about VP wins and most of those come from ruination (barring the ridiculous bloodletter upgrade). The rat however must spend 1 PP for each point of corruption, and that's IF the model survives multiple turns until the region is ruined. Other powers only have to spend an upfront cost of 1 PP to start generating 1 corruption every round. Succeeding with HR ruination seems less a question of the HR player's ability and more of other (corruption-dropping) players not letting a single player get a monopoly on corruption in a region. If everyone left one player alone to build up >8 corruption in a region then there's really nothing the HR can do to compete with that on the ruining turn. He has to hope that everyone goes with a nice 4/4/4 spread.
So they put some mechanics in place to supposedly make up for increased ruination PP cost but I'm not very convinced of their abilities to keep pace.
Under-empire/skitterleap: Under-empire seems mandatory as a first upgrade. The only time it isn't is when you luck out with drawing a bunch of skitterleaps early, and even then you're dependent on ruining regions being adjacent. So you need skitterleap cards AND adjacent ruin regions in order to avoid being forced to take under-empire first.
10 cultists: By far the most cultists of any power, but you still have to pay to summon them and don't get many methods of summoning more than the other powers except for the following three points.
Grey Seer: A useful card, but limited in number.
Clan rat upgrade: This would be phenomenal if you started the game with it, but getting it at the start of the third round limits its practical usefulness. You need to shift from spread out domination to concentrated ruination at that point, so this upgrade will usually only snag you one saved power point per round. I almost think this should be "3 clan rats for 1 point in empty regions" or "2 clan rats for 1 point once per region per turn regardless of how many models present".
Warp stone cache: A method by which the player can "bank" points for future turns when he has to suddenly saturate a region about to be ruined. Problem is it takes away points from early turns where you could be building up domination points. You also need to draw them early or they're useless. Getting them on turns 4 and 5 does not help you.
Other stuff
Vermin Lord upgrade: My opinion of this upgrade has improved a little. You can summon the vermin lord early and then you can leverage this upgrade to be more useful than I thought. Instead of treating a greater daemon as "planting your flag" in regions you want to dig into, you can turn him into an extremely mobile 3 battle dice for 1 PP to pick off cultists in trouble spots every turn. You can also afford to fake people out by summoning the vermin lord to one region, then moving him when someone plays a card in that region to neutralize him (no one expects a greater daemon to move twice in a turn). The only problem is if someone manages to kill him then the entire upgrade goes out the window.
Rat ogre upgrade: Still think this one is overrated. By the time you get an upgrade you're worrying about ruination, and a dead rat ogre hurts just as much as 2 dead clan rats in that case. The instances where there are enough ogres mixed in with enough clan rats to make any sort of real difference is extremely rare.
Council of 13: Used to think this was the best since often being able to ensure you don't get shut out of playing a card can be crucial. Sadly, the HR has some of the least game-swinging cards in the game. The only one that would really decide a region is strength in numbers (verminous horde can be good, but by the time the card slots are full people have already summoned figures). The main use of this upgrade lies in Mystical Disregard not being able to cancel it out, which is more a testament to how (overly?)powerful that upgrade is than how useful Co13 is.
I'm half-convinced that the HR was meant to be played with an expert OWC deck, in hopes that the "skaven token in every region" card comes up early.
If I had to rate the expansion powers based off what I've seen, I'd say:
1st: Non-nerf Khorne
2nd: Tzeentch (havoc and mystical disregard are game-winning)
3rd: nerf Khorne
4th: Nurgle
5th: Slaneesh / HR
The bottom 3 seem to be dependent on special circumstances, whereas the advantage defaults to the top 3.
You've made some good points, I think it is worth mentioning that Doomwheel is a AMAZING card and can really help you get VP.
Check out these games on here:
Game 41
Game 43
RPT2
RPT3
(I'm too lazy to add the links)
All of these games the HR has won.
The rat is a contender, yes your models don't add corruption over rounds like the other gods, but with 10 cultists you will never need to summon from one region to another like Slaanesh, Nurgle or Khorne... It is generally cheaper to get your models on the board and move them around...
Skitterleap
Under Empire
Grey Seer
Vermin Lord Upgrade
Clan Rat Upgrade
The trick is keeping them alive and then dumping them in last minute when ruination happens. Doing this by Skitterleaping, Under Empiring or having more PP due to Warp Token Cache.
My personal view is that the HR should focus on second place not first, but second place in all ruinations as he is able to move better than most of the gods.
I also agree in the expert deck he has a huge advantage as they all help him or hinder his opponents.
Succeeding with HR ruination seems less a question of the HR player's ability and more of other (corruption-dropping) players not letting a single player get a monopoly on corruption in a region. If everyone left one player alone to build up >8 corruption in a region then there's really nothing the HR can do to compete with that on the ruining turn. He has to hope that everyone goes with a nice 4/4/4 spread.
Well it's a good thing for the horned rat that in practice there will pretty much always be strife among the players, can't see the gods with less cultists agreeing to a no conflict approach for ruination not to mention that getting a double dial tick requires spreading out.
I also agree in the expert deck he has a huge advantage as they all help him or hinder his opponents.
I like the idea of the expert cards but I think they dropped the ball with them. They needed to make a LOT more to ensure that the same ones don't come up every expert deck game, or to make sure that more of them came up in a mixed deck game. To me a mixed deck is the worst of both worlds: you mostly get the boring inconsequential base OWCs, but when a frustrating expert card comes up it will often stick around for 3 or more rounds since so many base cards don't go onto the track.
I just thought of another possible house rule! For mixed OWC decks, throw out half or more of the base cards before mixing in the expert cards.
Well it's a good thing for the horned rat that in practice there will pretty much always be strife among the players, can't see the gods with less cultists agreeing to a no conflict approach for ruination not to mention that getting a double dial tick requires spreading out.
With the end of realistic dial victories, it's never really worth it to risk VP in pursuit of a possible 2nd tick. Priority is pretty much 1. Ruination 2. Dominaion 3. Dial ticks
Well it's a good thing for the horned rat that in practice there will pretty much always be strife among the players, can't see the gods with less cultists agreeing to a no conflict approach for ruination not to mention that getting a double dial tick requires spreading out.
With the end of realistic dial victories, it's never really worth it to risk VP in pursuit of a possible 2nd tick. Priority is pretty much 1. Ruination 2. Dominaion 3. Dial ticks
It depends if double dialling gives you the early upgrade and that gives you the edge in the VP war. It is worth doing, especially for Nurgle as a turn three upgrade is pretty lame!
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Well I learned something new then.
Thanks for the correct info.
You've made some good points, I think it is worth mentioning that Doomwheel is a AMAZING card and can really help you get VP.
Check out these games on here:
Game 41
Game 43
RPT2
RPT3
(I'm too lazy to add the links)
All of these games the HR has won.
Checked out the RPT games. Khorne won RPT2.
RPT3 kind of highlights my point. A HR victory requires both skill AND very lucky circumstances. Cerebus obviously has skill, and the setup was a rat bonanza. Horned One's Due first OWC, two Empty the Warrens cards to start, and Khorne gets exiled to Norsca, the exact opposite map end where all the Skaven tokens will be going. Without Khorne out of the way and those extra starting Skaven tokens in low resistance regions, the odds of HR double ticking first round are almost nil.
I'd love to explore it more but I'm still going with my thesis: HR/Slaneesh (and to some degree Nurgle) require lucky openings (exploited by skill) out of their control to have a chance, while Khorne and Tzeentch have the capabilities to dictate their own openings. HR needs certain OWCs and chaos cards in a certain order (Warrens is much better early on, while late turn Caches are wastes of draws) while Slaneesh...I dunno. Needs to be left alone while the other gods bash each other into the dirt? Nurgle's kind of middle the road in that certain cards are certain times helps. Khorne can barrel through anything. The only thing that could screw Tzeench is having all 3 Havoc cards on the bottom of the deck.
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mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
Skaven DID win RPT 2... The final board shows Khorne having 70 points and Skaven having 72.
Also The Horned One's Due was the revised OW card that does not place Skaven tokens. It does not benefit the HR.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I'd love to explore it more but I'm still going with my thesis: HR/Slaneesh (and to some degree Nurgle) require lucky openings (exploited by skill) out of their control to have a chance, while Khorne and Tzeentch have the capabilities to dictate their own openings. HR needs certain OWCs and chaos cards in a certain order (Warrens is much better early on, while late turn Caches are wastes of draws) while Slaneesh...I dunno. Needs to be left alone while the other gods bash each other into the dirt? Nurgle's kind of middle the road in that certain cards are certain times helps. Khorne can barrel through anything. The only thing that could screw Tzeench is having all 3 Havoc cards on the bottom of the deck.
I think that you are right more or less, Tzeentch and Khorne are the more powerful gods, with Nurgle, HR and Slaanesh all being slightly worse off / the underdog. They can all win games, we have seen that here but it is more difficult for them in comparison, as you have said needing to be left alone or get good OWC draws etc. I think that the paths to victory with Slaanesh and Nurgle especially are much more variable, they don't have chaos cards that are always useful, there isn't 1 upgrade that you should always take you need to vary it by game. This makes them better stategy wise, but harder to play as it is less obvious.
Overall my view is that excluding Khorne and the BL upgrade the game is fairly well balanced and very interesting. I love the base game, but I think I do agree with Magic Geek that the HR expansion adds a lot of cool new things that makes it more interesting and less obvious.
Also The Horned One's Due was the revised OW card that does not place Skaven tokens. It does not benefit the HR.
Am I reading the wrong HWD's card?
The Horned One's Due - Place one Skaven token in each of Bretonnia and The Empire, or in each of Estalia and Tilea. - While this Old World card remains in play, only one Chaos card (rather than two) may be played in any region containing one or more Skaven tokens.
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blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
Yes, you're reading the wrong card. If HR is playing, you replace the original with this:
The Horned One's Due - Remove all Event tokens from the board and remove any Old World cards bearing the Twin-tailed Comet icon from the Old World track. Then, place one Event token in each of Bretonnia and the Empire, or in each of Estalia and Tilea. - Only one Chaos card (rather than two) may be played in any region containing an Event token.
If I had to rate the expansion powers based off what I've seen, I'd say:
1st: Non-nerf Khorne
2nd: Tzeentch (havoc and mystical disregard are game-winning)
3rd: nerf Khorne
4th: Nurgle
5th: Slaneesh / HR
The bottom 3 seem to be dependent on special circumstances, whereas the advantage defaults to the top 3.
I agree in general.
But,... I think 3 = 4 = 5 . . . . At least for me.
Khorne going VP without the Bloodletter Upgrade is just as hard playing Nurgle, HR or Slaan.
TZ has a huge set of Monkey Wrenchs they can really chuck at Khorne.
Skillfull HR play seems pretty strong. Poor HR play seems pretty weak.
Much more so for HR than any other god.
1st: Bloodletter Khorne
2nd: Tzeentch
3rd: nerf Khorne, Nurgle, Slaneesh, good HR
4th: Bad HR
Hey, I'd like to toss my hat back into the looking for game list. Hopefully my second sortie won't result in the brutal ass pounding I'm taking over in game 68.
Hey, I'd like to toss my hat back into the looking for game list. Hopefully my second sortie won't result in the brutal ass pounding I'm taking over in game 68.
Slaanesh has it rough in Horned Rat. Fall from Grace is a great upgrade, but then it makes you a target.
I'm not experienced enough to feel fully confident on that, but I agree. Slaanesh seems to need a tricksy playstyle that can be tough to really pull off. Maybe a few games from now I'll feel differently though.
Hey, I'd like to toss my hat back into the looking for game list. Hopefully my second sortie won't result in the brutal ass pounding I'm taking over in game 68.
Slaanesh has it rough in Horned Rat. Fall from Grace is a great upgrade, but then it makes you a target.
I don't see Fall from Grace as a viable upgrade for Slaanesh unless you double-tick turn 1 or somehow have many cultists on the map without threat. You get much better mileage out of a domination VP strategy through Rise to Glory combined with either Keeper of Secrets or Daemonettes.
I don't see Fall from Grace as a viable upgrade for Slaanesh unless you double-tick turn 1 or somehow have many cultists on the map without threat. You get much better mileage out of a domination VP strategy through Rise to Glory combined with either Keeper of Secrets or Daemonettes.
Yeah the only real dial victory I can picture is Slaneesh managing to double tick in turn 1 (why does it always seem like Norsca/Troll Country get warpstone but never nobles?) then getting lucky with Fall from Grace.
I'm starting to think that's the ONLY viable strategy for Slaneesh though. You can almost never get enough nobles in one spot for Rise to Glory to be worth it. You'd need it in combination with Keeper of Secrets upgrade and you would only get one turn of having both upgrades (unless you got lucky with dial early, then you wouldn't be taking those upgrades). Even then, Slaneesh just doesn't have the defenses to prevent Khorne or other warriors from decimating their valuable region. Is anyone really seriously deterred by Festival of Sinew?
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
Even then, Slaneesh just doesn't have the defenses to prevent Khorne or other warriors from decimating their valuable region. Is anyone really seriously deterred by Festival of Sinew?
Not really, because Slaanesh runs out of useful things to do pretty quickly.
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That's not an unreasonable tradeoff to make. I can understand "make it work on a mobile browser" being thrown in the Will Not Fix bucket, but do you anticipate adding "make it display on a mobile browser"? Is there anything I can do to help?
As an additional data point, it's probably something resolution-related, since a collaborator with an iPad reports that it displays okay on that device.
I refuse to play the Bloodletter Upgrade.
So, I am looking at the other sorry collection of pathetic virtual cardboard.
If I pick the Bloodthirster Upgrade, can I summon Mr Angry to the same province as he started?
(This is useful as a "pass" turn.)
This does not appear to be in the FAQ...?
And The Horny Rat has won the last TWO RPT games, ...JUST
Horned Rat can and does win games, but it requires a very different style of play.
And about the Bloodthirster upgrade, I believe you can summon him to the same region.
Yup, that's me on Steam.
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Why not?
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I love the cultist upgrade for Khorne, think it is amazing. Have you tried it with your normal VP strategy?
Horned Rat is winnable with, but as you said, is just very different. I found he was all about second place ruinations, basically any that happened I wanted second place and with UE you can get everywhere and keep the exact amount of troops there having the rest move on.
I do wonder if UE is totally neccessary for him though, thats the only question.
However, there are some Chaos cards that can do the job such as Grey Seer and Skitterleap so I suppose this upgrade isn't essential to win games.
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The expansion is all about VP wins and most of those come from ruination (barring the ridiculous bloodletter upgrade). The rat however must spend 1 PP for each point of corruption, and that's IF the model survives multiple turns until the region is ruined. Other powers only have to spend an upfront cost of 1 PP to start generating 1 corruption every round. Succeeding with HR ruination seems less a question of the HR player's ability and more of other (corruption-dropping) players not letting a single player get a monopoly on corruption in a region. If everyone left one player alone to build up >8 corruption in a region then there's really nothing the HR can do to compete with that on the ruining turn. He has to hope that everyone goes with a nice 4/4/4 spread.
So they put some mechanics in place to supposedly make up for increased ruination PP cost but I'm not very convinced of their abilities to keep pace.
Under-empire/skitterleap: Under-empire seems mandatory as a first upgrade. The only time it isn't is when you luck out with drawing a bunch of skitterleaps early, and even then you're dependent on ruining regions being adjacent. So you need skitterleap cards AND adjacent ruin regions in order to avoid being forced to take under-empire first.
10 cultists: By far the most cultists of any power, but you still have to pay to summon them and don't get many methods of summoning more than the other powers except for the following three points.
Grey Seer: A useful card, but limited in number.
Clan rat upgrade: This would be phenomenal if you started the game with it, but getting it at the start of the third round limits its practical usefulness. You need to shift from spread out domination to concentrated ruination at that point, so this upgrade will usually only snag you one saved power point per round. I almost think this should be "3 clan rats for 1 point in empty regions" or "2 clan rats for 1 point once per region per turn regardless of how many models present".
Warp stone cache: A method by which the player can "bank" points for future turns when he has to suddenly saturate a region about to be ruined. Problem is it takes away points from early turns where you could be building up domination points. You also need to draw them early or they're useless. Getting them on turns 4 and 5 does not help you.
Other stuff
Vermin Lord upgrade: My opinion of this upgrade has improved a little. You can summon the vermin lord early and then you can leverage this upgrade to be more useful than I thought. Instead of treating a greater daemon as "planting your flag" in regions you want to dig into, you can turn him into an extremely mobile 3 battle dice for 1 PP to pick off cultists in trouble spots every turn. You can also afford to fake people out by summoning the vermin lord to one region, then moving him when someone plays a card in that region to neutralize him (no one expects a greater daemon to move twice in a turn). The only problem is if someone manages to kill him then the entire upgrade goes out the window.
Rat ogre upgrade: Still think this one is overrated. By the time you get an upgrade you're worrying about ruination, and a dead rat ogre hurts just as much as 2 dead clan rats in that case. The instances where there are enough ogres mixed in with enough clan rats to make any sort of real difference is extremely rare.
Council of 13: Used to think this was the best since often being able to ensure you don't get shut out of playing a card can be crucial. Sadly, the HR has some of the least game-swinging cards in the game. The only one that would really decide a region is strength in numbers (verminous horde can be good, but by the time the card slots are full people have already summoned figures). The main use of this upgrade lies in Mystical Disregard not being able to cancel it out, which is more a testament to how (overly?)powerful that upgrade is than how useful Co13 is.
I'm half-convinced that the HR was meant to be played with an expert OWC deck, in hopes that the "skaven token in every region" card comes up early.
If I had to rate the expansion powers based off what I've seen, I'd say:
1st: Non-nerf Khorne
2nd: Tzeentch (havoc and mystical disregard are game-winning)
3rd: nerf Khorne
4th: Nurgle
5th: Slaneesh / HR
The bottom 3 seem to be dependent on special circumstances, whereas the advantage defaults to the top 3.
Check out these games on here:
Game 41
Game 43
RPT2
RPT3
(I'm too lazy to add the links)
All of these games the HR has won.
The rat is a contender, yes your models don't add corruption over rounds like the other gods, but with 10 cultists you will never need to summon from one region to another like Slaanesh, Nurgle or Khorne... It is generally cheaper to get your models on the board and move them around...
Skitterleap
Under Empire
Grey Seer
Vermin Lord Upgrade
Clan Rat Upgrade
The trick is keeping them alive and then dumping them in last minute when ruination happens. Doing this by Skitterleaping, Under Empiring or having more PP due to Warp Token Cache.
My personal view is that the HR should focus on second place not first, but second place in all ruinations as he is able to move better than most of the gods.
I also agree in the expert deck he has a huge advantage as they all help him or hinder his opponents.
Well it's a good thing for the horned rat that in practice there will pretty much always be strife among the players, can't see the gods with less cultists agreeing to a no conflict approach for ruination not to mention that getting a double dial tick requires spreading out.
I like the idea of the expert cards but I think they dropped the ball with them. They needed to make a LOT more to ensure that the same ones don't come up every expert deck game, or to make sure that more of them came up in a mixed deck game. To me a mixed deck is the worst of both worlds: you mostly get the boring inconsequential base OWCs, but when a frustrating expert card comes up it will often stick around for 3 or more rounds since so many base cards don't go onto the track.
I just thought of another possible house rule! For mixed OWC decks, throw out half or more of the base cards before mixing in the expert cards.
With the end of realistic dial victories, it's never really worth it to risk VP in pursuit of a possible 2nd tick. Priority is pretty much 1. Ruination 2. Dominaion 3. Dial ticks
It depends if double dialling gives you the early upgrade and that gives you the edge in the VP war. It is worth doing, especially for Nurgle as a turn three upgrade is pretty lame!
Thanks for the correct info.
Checked out the RPT games. Khorne won RPT2.
RPT3 kind of highlights my point. A HR victory requires both skill AND very lucky circumstances. Cerebus obviously has skill, and the setup was a rat bonanza. Horned One's Due first OWC, two Empty the Warrens cards to start, and Khorne gets exiled to Norsca, the exact opposite map end where all the Skaven tokens will be going. Without Khorne out of the way and those extra starting Skaven tokens in low resistance regions, the odds of HR double ticking first round are almost nil.
I'd love to explore it more but I'm still going with my thesis: HR/Slaneesh (and to some degree Nurgle) require lucky openings (exploited by skill) out of their control to have a chance, while Khorne and Tzeentch have the capabilities to dictate their own openings. HR needs certain OWCs and chaos cards in a certain order (Warrens is much better early on, while late turn Caches are wastes of draws) while Slaneesh...I dunno. Needs to be left alone while the other gods bash each other into the dirt? Nurgle's kind of middle the road in that certain cards are certain times helps. Khorne can barrel through anything. The only thing that could screw Tzeench is having all 3 Havoc cards on the bottom of the deck.
Also The Horned One's Due was the revised OW card that does not place Skaven tokens. It does not benefit the HR.
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If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
What Mi-Go has said here is true.
I think that you are right more or less, Tzeentch and Khorne are the more powerful gods, with Nurgle, HR and Slaanesh all being slightly worse off / the underdog. They can all win games, we have seen that here but it is more difficult for them in comparison, as you have said needing to be left alone or get good OWC draws etc. I think that the paths to victory with Slaanesh and Nurgle especially are much more variable, they don't have chaos cards that are always useful, there isn't 1 upgrade that you should always take you need to vary it by game. This makes them better stategy wise, but harder to play as it is less obvious.
Overall my view is that excluding Khorne and the BL upgrade the game is fairly well balanced and very interesting. I love the base game, but I think I do agree with Magic Geek that the HR expansion adds a lot of cool new things that makes it more interesting and less obvious.
Obviously, this is all just my opinion.
Am I reading the wrong HWD's card?
The Horned One's Due - Place one Skaven token in each of Bretonnia and The Empire, or in each of Estalia and Tilea. - While this Old World card remains in play, only one Chaos card (rather than two) may be played in any region containing one or more Skaven tokens.
The Horned One's Due - Remove all Event tokens from the board and remove any Old World cards bearing the Twin-tailed Comet icon from the Old World track. Then, place one Event token in each of Bretonnia and the Empire, or in each of Estalia and Tilea. - Only one Chaos card (rather than two) may be played in any region containing an Event token.
It's really odd they'd remove the HR advantage from that card, but then add "Up from Skavenblight" which is a massive advantage for him.
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I agree in general.
But,... I think 3 = 4 = 5 . . . . At least for me.
Khorne going VP without the Bloodletter Upgrade is just as hard playing Nurgle, HR or Slaan.
TZ has a huge set of Monkey Wrenchs they can really chuck at Khorne.
Skillfull HR play seems pretty strong. Poor HR play seems pretty weak.
Much more so for HR than any other god.
1st: Bloodletter Khorne
2nd: Tzeentch
3rd: nerf Khorne, Nurgle, Slaneesh, good HR
4th: Bad HR
I will try my hand at this hosting business, invitations have been sent to mi-go hunter, displaced quasar, BlackRaider, Krinn DNZ, susan.
I updated your board app log-in to Host level.
Let me know if you have any questions.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Wins: NBN; Jenny Barnes; Emperor of Mankind; Werewolf (posthumous), Gregor; Colonel Mustard; USSR
Losses: Silas Marsh Bob Jenkins; Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle; House Harkonnen; Stark; Beravor; Scientist, Dispatcher; Universities of Jol-Nar, Winnu
@doldari -- please drop a link to the game thread here and/or in the PbP index thread for me.
edit: Never mind; didn't notice you had already made the thread.
Game 69 (sounds like an auspicious one for Slaanesh)
Slaanesh has it rough in Horned Rat. Fall from Grace is a great upgrade, but then it makes you a target.
Wins: NBN; Jenny Barnes; Emperor of Mankind; Werewolf (posthumous), Gregor; Colonel Mustard; USSR
Losses: Silas Marsh Bob Jenkins; Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle; House Harkonnen; Stark; Beravor; Scientist, Dispatcher; Universities of Jol-Nar, Winnu
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
I don't see Fall from Grace as a viable upgrade for Slaanesh unless you double-tick turn 1 or somehow have many cultists on the map without threat. You get much better mileage out of a domination VP strategy through Rise to Glory combined with either Keeper of Secrets or Daemonettes.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
displaced quasar as Khorne
Krinn DNZ as Nurgle
BlackRaider as Tzeentch
susanb as Slaanesh
GoodOmens as The Horned Rat
Yeah the only real dial victory I can picture is Slaneesh managing to double tick in turn 1 (why does it always seem like Norsca/Troll Country get warpstone but never nobles?) then getting lucky with Fall from Grace.
I'm starting to think that's the ONLY viable strategy for Slaneesh though. You can almost never get enough nobles in one spot for Rise to Glory to be worth it. You'd need it in combination with Keeper of Secrets upgrade and you would only get one turn of having both upgrades (unless you got lucky with dial early, then you wouldn't be taking those upgrades). Even then, Slaneesh just doesn't have the defenses to prevent Khorne or other warriors from decimating their valuable region. Is anyone really seriously deterred by Festival of Sinew?