I was under the vague impression that AA/NA is something that a court can demand of a person.
Generally they force "an alcohol/drug treatment plan" which the person can pick from various groups in their area.
Edit: I am sure there have been instances where a judge has forced AA on someone, though. But judges can be stupid and force all kinds of shit on people. AA isn't around to be forced on you. At all.
Absolutely, yes. Courts can, and do, force people to go to meetings. They may specifically say "AA" or they may say generally "12-step" or they may say even more generally "find a support group."
The military does this too. I believe the offenders can generally choose a program when they go to the substance abuse coordinator.
A court can not legally send someone to AA. It was deemed too close to a religious organization.
They can assuredly order someone to a "treatment program" and have the abuser pick one that suits his needs.
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Clown ShoesGive me hay or give me death.Registered Userregular
Maybe you should have posted this in the "Agree with Henroid" forum instead of D&D then.
I'm currently enjoying a glass of single malt, but I have no desire to go to my brother's house and start throwing punches. I may not be making the optimal rational health decision by your standards, but that's not something that's unique to alcohol - I also ate too much chocolate over Christmas and spent more than I should on presents.
The problems you're describing are a result of your friends/relatives+alcohol and not just the inevitable result of peope imbibing the angry juice.
I don't drink and never have and I basically agree with Henroid. It's annoying to hang out with people who get blotto'd all the time. I have a friend who was exactly like Henroid described his friend like, only this one knew he had a problem and eventually started cutting back.
My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
This is not how helping an alcoholic works.
They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.
I would never suggest anyone go to AA, it's a stupid religious recruitment organization.
That is incorrect. While religion is something they use to help people, it is not some sort of indoctrination thing.
You do not have to believe in god to join AA and they are, in fact, some of the most humble people around. In my experience.
How much do you actually know about AA?
Isn't one of the steps invoking a higher power to keep you from drinking?
It's a mental aspect that has more to do with anchoring your alcohol abuse with the help of something.
If you want to consider your higher-power the Golden Gate Bridge, that's cool.
My dad is a recovering alcoholic (always recovering, it never really goes away, bros) and isn't religious.
Two things:
1) There's a lot of variability between 12-step programs, because they're not regulated in any way. This is kind of a problem of it's own - any bozo can find a room in a community center and start a "12-step" program. The term "Alcoholics Anonymous" is copyrighted by the AA General Service Office (GSO), and theoretically the AA can leverage legal power against a group using the Alcoholics Anonymous label inappropriately, but I'm not sure if that ever actually happens. AA meetings around here (San Francisco/San Jose) are entirely secular, but AA meetings in more religious communities can be all Jesus all the time.
2) The idea that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" isn't exactly true. It isn't exactly false, either. There are a lot of reasons somebody can become an addict. A genetic or organic predisposition is one reason. Deep-seated personality traits can be a risk factor. So, yes, some people have to spend their lives avoiding all addictive substances (or only partaking in particularly benign addictions like caffeine). But there are plenty of people who go through a period of problem drinking, receive help, and recover towards moderation rather than abstinence.
AA likes to wield "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" as a tactical weapon against the self-denial of unrecovered addicts telling themselves that their drinking isn't a problem. But repeating an idea because of the affect the idea has on people and repeating it because it is true aren't the same thing.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
I don't drink and never have and I basically agree with Henroid. It's annoying to hang out with people who get blotto'd all the time. I have a friend who was exactly like Henroid described his friend like, only this one knew he had a problem and eventually started cutting back.
The difference being most people don't have a drinking problem. Your friend did.
I was under the vague impression that AA/NA is something that a court can demand of a person.
Generally they force "an alcohol/drug treatment plan" which the person can pick from various groups in their area.
Edit: I am sure there have been instances where a judge has forced AA on someone, though. But judges can be stupid and force all kinds of shit on people. AA isn't around to be forced on you. At all.
Absolutely, yes. Courts can, and do, force people to go to meetings. They may specifically say "AA" or they may say generally "12-step" or they may say even more generally "find a support group."
The military does this too. I believe the offenders can generally choose a program when they go to the substance abuse coordinator.
A court can not legally send someone to AA. It was deemed too close to a religious organization.
They can assuredly order someone to a "treatment program" and have the abuser pick one that suits his needs.
Actually, yeah, you're right. I forgot about that.
Sometimes, though, conveniently all of the treatment programs in the area are AA-affiliated...
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Even regular people get annoying when drunk. Not when drinking a beer or two, but even semi-drunk when you're cold sober. I should know, I used to volunteer to DD people all the time in college.
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They can assuredly order someone to a "treatment program" and have the abuser pick one that suits his needs.
Maybe you should have posted this in the "Agree with Henroid" forum instead of D&D then.
I'm currently enjoying a glass of single malt, but I have no desire to go to my brother's house and start throwing punches. I may not be making the optimal rational health decision by your standards, but that's not something that's unique to alcohol - I also ate too much chocolate over Christmas and spent more than I should on presents.
The problems you're describing are a result of your friends/relatives+alcohol and not just the inevitable result of peope imbibing the angry juice.
Two things:
1) There's a lot of variability between 12-step programs, because they're not regulated in any way. This is kind of a problem of it's own - any bozo can find a room in a community center and start a "12-step" program. The term "Alcoholics Anonymous" is copyrighted by the AA General Service Office (GSO), and theoretically the AA can leverage legal power against a group using the Alcoholics Anonymous label inappropriately, but I'm not sure if that ever actually happens. AA meetings around here (San Francisco/San Jose) are entirely secular, but AA meetings in more religious communities can be all Jesus all the time.
2) The idea that "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" isn't exactly true. It isn't exactly false, either. There are a lot of reasons somebody can become an addict. A genetic or organic predisposition is one reason. Deep-seated personality traits can be a risk factor. So, yes, some people have to spend their lives avoiding all addictive substances (or only partaking in particularly benign addictions like caffeine). But there are plenty of people who go through a period of problem drinking, receive help, and recover towards moderation rather than abstinence.
AA likes to wield "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" as a tactical weapon against the self-denial of unrecovered addicts telling themselves that their drinking isn't a problem. But repeating an idea because of the affect the idea has on people and repeating it because it is true aren't the same thing.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The difference being most people don't have a drinking problem. Your friend did.
Actually, yeah, you're right. I forgot about that.
Sometimes, though, conveniently all of the treatment programs in the area are AA-affiliated...
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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