[Path of Exile] Released on Steam! New Leagues! Now with more balance complaining!

_J_

Rofflor wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

You may like the barter system a lot less in 70 levels.

I don't agree with this at all. I like it alot more at lvl 65+ in HC, just because people that can get that far normally don't try to sell as much crap, or for retarded prices.

The same could happen on an AH system.

Bartering does not offer anything an AH can't do.

Grislo

Is the PA guild up and running?

Also, I think I'll have to do a Glacial Hammer build again. It's probably still my favourite melee skill.

chocobolicious

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

Aaaaand it did nothing. The other listed instance is the Steam one (installed 10/25/2013). Still have a GGG folder on my C:\program files\GGG. I can manually delete it, but I presume it's going to leave a bunch of dead shit in the registry.

They did a stupid job with this. There's like nothing in the patch notes or the GGG forums or website about installation procedures for people who had the standalone.

All I had to do was hit play on steam, wait 30 minutes, then play.

once I was done, I went into add/remove and uninstalled the standalone. It worked.

I don't even know how you need a guide for that, but I suppose i can whip one up with pictures if you'd like.

_J_

Grislo wrote: »

Is the PA guild up and running?

It is. I'll add that info to the OP for the next thread.



PA Guild
GM: @Ryadic (IGN Sciadic)
Officer: @themightypuck


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Twenty Sided's Currency Primer

Twenty Sided wrote: »

A Primer to Currency
There are any number of websites out there that will report values for currency, both Hardcore and Softcore.
The unfortunate caveat is these likely post the owners' personal opinion or are vote-based and may not necessarily reflect conditions that you find in the wild. Take them with a grain of salt.
Another caveat I must offer before moving forward is that most my experience is limited to Hardcore only, and even then, only after a long hiatus.

What I can tell you with a certainty is that some currencies are stable because the vendor will always beat those prices one way or another. That's not to say that all vendor recipes are favorable, quite a number of them are just downright terrible.

So let's start with a common sense example.
A Scouring Orb and a Alchemy Orb together is functionally a Chaos Orb.
By this logic, a Chaos Orb is 2 Alchemy or 2 Scouring.
For this reason, Chaos Orb values tend to retain extremely stable values.

Now let's talk about the cottage industry of forging your own currencies!
First, find any vendor that is selling Jeweler's and Fusings.
Examine their rates, because this will be the key to unlocking a slow if steady income.
8 Alteration = 4 Jeweler's = 1 Fusing

By a common sense evaluation, all these orbs are extremely useful one way or another to the right buyer.
People wanting to craft gear affix-by-affix will want Alterations in bulk. (Though I wouldn't recommend selling to them because it's a buyer's market.)
And people will always want to modify the sockets on equipment.
Again, this is the main reason Fusings will remain highly stable in value.
Another important figure.
1 Fusing = 1 Alchemy

You can farm Alterations by ID'ing every blue/yellow piece under the sun. Unidentified items will sell for Transmutation shards/orbs and can be sold for their respective Wisdom fragment or Scroll. You can convert the Alterations at your leisure into Jewelers or Fusings, however you need them. This is a great boon for lower level players and will help give you a bit of seed money to help break into higher content. If you're willing to underwrite the risk, you can use the Fusings to try and make 5L's or 6L's.

I regard these middle range currencies as the stablest and safest. Anything not mentioned gets more complicated, and depends a lot on what game mode you're in and whatever their respective market conditions happen to be. Some higher range currencies are highly prized but can be volatile and are simply unknowns left open to auction. Anything smaller tends to be so beneath notice as to be worthless on the open market. And much depends upon experience and common sense evaluation of what these currencies can do for the owner. I leave these to your judgment, but can offer some general commentary. The following paragraphs are fluff, so don't take them too seriously. It's a giant wall of meandering text in the spoiler below and you can skip them safely without harming your understanding. The most important basics are outlined above.

Orb of Regret: When I was starting out they were theoretically, supposed to be two Alchs. After all, the vendor enforces them at two Scourings, right? Well no. The market here is much sketchier, simply because quests give a healthy amount of respec points and it's highly unlikely people will need enough of them to generate serious demand. In practice, if you can find somebody to pay you a full Chaos for it, they're probably too stupid rich to care about losing an Alch of value over it. And they're not likely to buy that many off you. And nobody will accept them as legal tender in trades for items. Keep a private stash stocked away in case you need them, but don't expect to use them as money.

Exalted Orbs: Enjoyed vogue for a time as high-level mappers tended to consume them by making maps with even more affixes, though this may change on open launch. At rough approximation, Hardcore had them go from between 20 to 22 Chaos, but I don't doubt this value is subject to radical changes over time. Exalted Orbs tend to be the currency of choice for large purchases. Reasonably valuable uniques might go for a single Exalt, and desirable high quality gem can push an exalted plus. Truly god-tier equipment with good rolls are simply a question of whoever is willing to bid more. Incidentally, Exalted are used for crafting end-game equipment too.

Gemcutter's Prism (GCP for short): They have fallen out of favor recently in Hardcore. They may range from anywhere between 1 to 1.5 chaos at a very rough approximation (previously they were 3 chaos). It may have climbed back up, hell if I know. They used to be a trade currency used in purchases, which is part of my confusion, as they no longer serve that role. Long story short, it was realized that they had little value outside of being a trade currency and people would rather spend them to improve already high-quality drops, meaning that quality gems value isn't determined by GCP's at all. After a general panic, people attempted to unload their hoarded reserves, consequently flushing the GCP's value down the drain. I'd guess most individuals actually now use these orbs as they obtain them and few are ever likely to want to go out of their way to buy more than a handful at a time.

Mirror of Kalanda: Inestimably valuable. The line of reasoning is that that the number of godly jaw-dropping rares can only increase over time and that demand for Mirrors can only go up.

Eternal Orb: I don't even know. And I don't pretend to.

Regal Orb: It's definitely not a trade currency. But unlike the Orb of Regret, it's value is obvious to most people, although it has a very niche purpose in crafting only. I'd estimate that you might be able to buy one in HC for about 1.5 to 2 Chaos. But again, this number is anything but a definite figure as I've been out of the loop for some time.

Chromatic Orbs: You occasionally find people who want to buy them in bulk for 20 to the Chaos. They're not extremely valuable, but generally you want to have them on hand as it's a pain to try and buy them off other people.

Augmentations, Transmutes and other small currencies too small to note: Valueless. Or practically so.

Chance Orbs: These are enforced 4:1 against Fusing by vendors. So theoretically you can figure their value from that. I've seen them used as trade items a little more recently, though that may simply be a consequence of beta ending and people trying to roll legacy uniques. It's a somewhat niche item, but they're not entirely valueless either.

As a final note on etiquette. Assume that there is a unspoken rule on minimum bid raises and starting offers when you go into auctions. It may not be explicitly stated, but it's almost insulting to kick off a bid on an item far below it's actual value or to raise a bid by a single Chaos when the item is worth several Exalted or more.

Big Red Tie

at 51% crit just sitting in town

go to ~65% in fights

the discharges

Grislo

I want someone to do a high crit Shield Charge build with on crit: Lightning Warp.

(Don't do that.)

Variable

alright so I have ended up a summon build with firestorm/flammability/anger

animate guardian is AWESOME. I rushed to necromatic aegis because I have a good unique shield for it and right around when I got there animate guardian dropped (which is good, didn't have to wait for quest reward)

2 minion life's have dropped so I have one on zombies and one on guardian. skeletons are just to block paths and in 6 pts they'll be to explode. I don't think the anger aura on the minions will add to their explodey damage but my curse will certainly add to damage taken.

then in some order I have 3 more +summon minion nodes to get, the spectre node, the reduce mana reserved node (probably, feeling aura stacking makes extra sense with summons)... and all the shit runs right past each other. working out very smoothly.

edit - I'm probably gonna stack energy shield a bunch and leave any aura related nodes til very late. may do CI. may do double curse. all this is much later though.

Chubby Bunny

Twenty Sided wrote: »

Chubby Bunny wrote: »

What does everyone think of this Templar build? The focus is on: maxing out staff, turning the huge physical damage into fire damage, high armor, and having a small army of minions.

Horrible neglect of basic defenses. Buy moar life.
(Hardcore player hardcore player, blah blah blah).

That said, act bosses (and the new final boss in particular), will make life unenjoyable when you die from being sneezed on and even early parts of them game feel smoother when you've got a some fail-tolerant buffers in place.

Likewise, you're trying too hard to grab everything. If you get crit, build around crit. If you're fire dude, build around fire. And even then, it's not always wise to grab everything in a specialization.
As I emphasize tirelessly, how you link your support gems to your main skills is a serious long-term consideration, and will provide a larger proportion of utlity and damage than passives generally will. Gem slots are limited resource too, bit you should still be cognizant that the passives have basically have unknown interactions and significance you may not be fully aware of yet.

You're also jumping the gun by a lot. 100 skill point is roughly level 80 after all quest rewards. The few forumites I've seen active don't even have characters that high.
For the challenge . . . limit yourself to to sayyy, 60 points.

That's a big help, thanks. I think I'm gonna end up going 2H fire damage templar for now, and then see what happens when I unlock Scion ^_^

Also, what's a guy gotta do to get a guild invite around here?! Oh, wait patiently? Ok.

Ryadic

themightypuck wrote: »

Still haven't found the secret Rhoa level.

There is no cow rhoa level.

_J_

Nemesis trade chat is significantly different from standard.

Now I want to avoid death just to maintain access to trade.

dasnoob

Made it to 11 last night in my limited play on my templar. Going for a mix of elemntal defense and the defensive staff skills. So far it is pretty dang fun.

Anon the Felon

_J_ wrote: »

Rofflor wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

You may like the barter system a lot less in 70 levels.

I don't agree with this at all. I like it alot more at lvl 65+ in HC, just because people that can get that far normally don't try to sell as much crap, or for retarded prices.

The same could happen on an AH system.

Bartering does not offer anything an AH can't do.

I feel the need to point out... You know this is demonstrably wrong right?

An AH system (akin to WoW), allows people to put in a price floor which you (the buyer) can do nothing about. If you don't have enough money to enter the auction race, you can't have the item.

A barter system allows you to discuss the price with the seller, negotiate, and offer trade.

In an AH, only the allowable currency has any value. The item in question only has value to the buyer.

In a barter system everything has value, since I can say: "Well, I don't have enough chaos orbs, how about four of those and this unique helmet I got a while back? I also have these five rare gold rings I don't need but you might want to look at."

Barter is a vastly superior system. It is slower, and you have to have a modicum of respect for other people to be able to trade well (treat people nicely and they will trade with you for lower prices). It takes a bit, but it's better. You can sell things for more than they would buyout in an AH, and buy things for less.

I do understand your frustration though, lots of people don't like to do actual trade. It is kind of a dying skill.

_J_

Anon the Felon wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

Rofflor wrote: »

_J_ wrote: »

You may like the barter system a lot less in 70 levels.

I don't agree with this at all. I like it alot more at lvl 65+ in HC, just because people that can get that far normally don't try to sell as much crap, or for retarded prices.

The same could happen on an AH system.

Bartering does not offer anything an AH can't do.

I feel the need to point out... You know this is demonstrably wrong right?

An AH system (akin to WoW), allows people to put in a price floor which you (the buyer) can do nothing about. If you don't have enough money to enter the auction race, you can't have the item.

A barter system allows you to discuss the price with the seller, negotiate, and offer trade.

In an AH, only the allowable currency has any value. The item in question only has value to the buyer.

In a barter system everything has value, since I can say: "Well, I don't have enough chaos orbs, how about four of those and this unique helmet I got a while back? I also have these five rare gold rings I don't need but you might want to look at."

Barter is a vastly superior system. It is slower, and you have to have a modicum of respect for other people to be able to trade well (treat people nicely and they will trade with you for lower prices). It takes a bit, but it's better. You can sell things for more than they would buyout in an AH, and buy things for less.

I do understand your frustration though, lots of people don't like to do actual trade. It is kind of a dying skill.

I wonder how often the story you articulate happens: A seller is open-minded enough to accept multiple pieces in exchange, rather than simply articulating a flat rate in currency.

I think the AH version of what you discuss would be to sell the unique and rare gold rings for a currency, and then use that currency to purchase the item.

A PoE AH would be interesting since the currency is so unique. The way it could work is that players set their desired price (X chaos orbs) and then set the ratios for other bits of currency. You may not have any chaos, but could use some gcp and alcs to reach the chaos threshhold.

Or, perhaps it would not need to be an Auction House, but rather a Bartering house. Players submit their items to sell, and others submit their offers.

Really, all I want is something like an in-game version of the trade forum. A way to view available items without having to be in the right trade chat at the right time.

Anon the Felon

A barter exchange would be very interesting. Something with pop-up messages saying "Someone offers <blah> do you accept or decline?"

I don't think the suggestion of "you have to sell all your stuff to get the currency to buy the other stuff" is a very good one. That system sucks for everyone involved. Plus it causes insane inflation as everyone only values the accepted currency.

The fact is, with the PoE currency system, an AH just isn't possible.

As an aside: That example happens all the time. Just yesterday I was buying an endgame 1h axe. Guy wanted 5 GCP. I talked him down to 3, then offered up some end game quivers I had and got it for 1 GCP plus one of my quivers (which had been in my stash for lord knows how long). Happens to most of my trades.

Brody

So two questions. First, how viable would a Spectral Throw + Fork + On Hit + Spark (or something similar) setup be?

Secondly, I found a Superior Spark gem on Nemesis. Is super spark worth any more than a flat spark?

JihadJesus

Ugh, Idid not factor in that if I rolled to a different build at reset, all my sockets would be wrong and my 'new' build would be screwed until I found newer gear.

Also, wow is that curse on hit gem useless. Yeah, I'll just give up two gem slots in my main attack. Not. That one and the cast on death look functionally useless, which really sucks.

[Edit]
Does anyone know if you can use curses on other trigger gems, like on damage taken? Or is that not possible?

SummaryJudgment

chocobolicious wrote: »

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

Aaaaand it did nothing. The other listed instance is the Steam one (installed 10/25/2013). Still have a GGG folder on my C:\program files\GGG. I can manually delete it, but I presume it's going to leave a bunch of dead shit in the registry.

They did a stupid job with this. There's like nothing in the patch notes or the GGG forums or website about installation procedures for people who had the standalone.

All I had to do was hit play on steam, wait 30 minutes, then play.

once I was done, I went into add/remove and uninstalled the standalone. It worked.

I don't even know how you need a guide for that, but I suppose i can whip one up with pictures if you'd like.

After I had installed the Steam client, the only listing showing on Add/Remove was the Steam client (It reported as being installed 10/25/13 and listed Steampowered.com as the support page). The Standalone client lost it's entry in Add/Remove. It has, AFAIK, no other uninstaller. No uninstall.exe in the program files/Grinding Gear Games, no shortcut to an uninstall.exe in the start menu.

themightypuck

So annoying being at work making actual money when I could be farming for chaos orbs.

_J_

Brody wrote: »

So two questions. First, how viable would a Spectral Throw + Fork + On Hit + Spark (or something similar) setup be?

Secondly, I found a Superior Spark gem on Nemesis. Is super spark worth any more than a flat spark?

1) Spectral throw + fork would not be very viable.

Spectral Throw has a 100% chance to pierce enemies, but cannot travel through terrain obstacles. This means that Pierce has no effect. Chain and/or Fork never have an effect (explanation given in Projectile#Piercing, Forking, and Chaining).

Source

When theorycrafting, it is usually a good idea to go to the wiki and read about the spells in question. One of my justifiable complaints about this game is the degree to which some spells / mechanics are not very intuitive. Spectral Throw is one such spell. I mean, how am I supposed to intuit these damage modifier rules:

Damage Modifiers: Spectral Throw is classified as an Attack and will benefit from x% increased Attack Speed but not from x% increased Casting Speed. It benefits from x% increased Projectile Damage and x% increased Weapon Physical Damage but not x% increased Melee Damage.

So, the spectral weapon I throw is a physical projectile non-melee copy of a melee weapon? ...ok...

2) Usually, yes.

Yilias

Think of it this way; Spectral Throw turns whatever weapon you are using into a bow with the same stats.

chocobolicious

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

chocobolicious wrote: »

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

Aaaaand it did nothing. The other listed instance is the Steam one (installed 10/25/2013). Still have a GGG folder on my C:\program files\GGG. I can manually delete it, but I presume it's going to leave a bunch of dead shit in the registry.

They did a stupid job with this. There's like nothing in the patch notes or the GGG forums or website about installation procedures for people who had the standalone.

All I had to do was hit play on steam, wait 30 minutes, then play.

once I was done, I went into add/remove and uninstalled the standalone. It worked.

I don't even know how you need a guide for that, but I suppose i can whip one up with pictures if you'd like.

After I had installed the Steam client, the only listing showing on Add/Remove was the Steam client (It reported as being installed 10/25/13 and listed Steampowered.com as the support page). The Standalone client lost it's entry in Add/Remove. It has, AFAIK, no other uninstaller. No uninstall.exe in the program files/Grinding Gear Games, no shortcut to an uninstall.exe in the start menu.

Redownload the installer from the website and run it. It should add an entry into the uninstall list then, I believe. I just tried it and it worked for me. You won't need to download much of anything.

_J_

themightypuck wrote: »

So annoying being at work making actual money when I could be farming for chaos orbs.

You could use your work money to obtain chaos orbs. That is, likely, far more efficient than actually playing the game.

Grislo

Brody wrote: »

So two questions. First, how viable would a Spectral Throw + Fork + On Hit + Spark (or something similar) setup be?

Secondly, I found a Superior Spark gem on Nemesis. Is super spark worth any more than a flat spark?

Fork and Chain (and of course pierce) won't work with Spectral Throw. As for Spark (which would have to be 'on crit'), I'm not a fan. There are better things to do with your supports, though with a 6 link and Spectral Throw, it might not be a complete waste of slots, but unless you are skilled towards it, the damage won't be very impressive.

Jihad: curses do have the spell tag, so I'd assume so. I can test it in a while. I sort of assumed cast on death was for pvp. Or cast on death - portal, to help the party when you run into something nasty. But that might be stretching it.

RainbowDespair

With Animate Guardian and Necromantic Aegis, you can create a minion that dual-wields shields and still has a weapon. So tanky.

_J_

Yilias wrote: »

Think of it this way; Spectral Throw turns whatever weapon you are using into a bow with the same stats.

Hmm...So, Spectral Throw would be the way to get dual-wield crossbows...in a sense.

_J_

Grislo wrote: »

Brody wrote: »

So two questions. First, how viable would a Spectral Throw + Fork + On Hit + Spark (or something similar) setup be?

Secondly, I found a Superior Spark gem on Nemesis. Is super spark worth any more than a flat spark?

Fork and Chain (and of course pierce) won't work with Spectral Throw. As for Spark (which would have to be 'on crit'), I'm not a fan. There are better things to do with your supports, though with a 6 link and Spectral Throw, it might not be a complete waste of slots, but unless you are skilled towards it, the damage won't be very impressive.

This, and most Scion Spectral builds use the "always hit, no crit" passive. Though, I would be curious to see a build that did not grab it.

_J_

This looks like a fun build:

Grislo

There are loads of non scion spectral users, and many of them are fairly dex heavy - seeing lots of rangers and shadows using it - so resolute technique isn't really any more mandatory for spectral throw than any other attack.

I do tend to like RT a lot, though.

Brody

Well, I asked because I was watching a stream yesterday where they were throwing a fan of three at a time, which achieved a spread of hits (LMP I guess). Which if On hit would calculate each time the spell deals damage, or just each pass, would result in a high chance of casting the linked spell.

Edit: Did not realize that it was Curse on Hit or Cast on Crit, derp.

Edit edit: Crit Spark charge building for discharge?

Edit edit edit: Too much caffeine. Something like this http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAP0HYw5IEVARlhOeFLAX2C0fLnA74UyzUDBXK13yXvpfKme9bRlwUnDVdFV8zn4zf8aMNo0Zm6Gdo6KjpJGsmLWFu9bAUcHz0DnZX9te3YzgEuOE5kzmgevk7m_z6vTp99f8qw==?

With Spectral throw + LMP + Cast on Crit + Spark + Power Charge on Crit

And then Discharge something.

Grislo

@JihadJesus I checked, you can use curses on other trigger gems. My rotation now is that every time I take 400-ish accumulated damage, I get a chance to cast Molten Shell, Enduring Cry and a curse. Using Warlord's atm because I didn't want to fuck with the colours, but will replace it with Temporal Chains. Pretty good use of a single 4 link.

JihadJesus

Grislo wrote: »

@JihadJesus I checked, you can use curses on other trigger gems. My rotation now is that every time I take 400-ish accumulated damage, I get a chance to cast Molten Shell, Enduring Cry and a curse. Using Warlord's atm because I didn't want to fuck with the colours, but will replace it with Temporal Chains. Pretty good use of a single 4 link.

That helps, although unfortunately the only thing you can be sure to get is the in hit. I'd like to see an 'on melee stun' too.

I think for now in going to run 'On Damage' along with Molten Shell, Vulnerability, and Enduring Cry.

Do all the skills go off 'at once' when triggered? I was thinking of another 'on melee kill' with raise zombie+summon skelly and thought I might as well toss in a detonate dead I it would auto target something else after the zombie was up.

Grislo

As far as I can tell, the chance calculates separately for each linked spell.

Has anyone been playing around with Animate Weapon?

I tried it out for the hell of it, and linked it to Multistrike, Faster Attacks and Increased Duration, and the weapons completely annihilated same level monsters - I assume this stops at later levels?

_J_

Grislo wrote: »

As far as I can tell, the chance calculates separately for each linked spell.

Has anyone been playing around with Animate Weapon?

I tried it out for the hell of it, and linked it to Multistrike, Faster Attacks and Increased Duration, and the weapons completely annihilated same level monsters - I assume this stops at later levels?

I tried Animate Weapon and it seemed very lame. Increased Duration would have definitely helped.

I read that it was bugged, and they are trying to fix it.

RainbowDespair

Apparently the Skill Duration passives work on Animate Weapon and as luck would have it, there's a 3 point cluster for +45% Skill Duration right below the Scion starting area.

derangedhermit

Is it normal to be randomly disconnected because "this operation requires you to login"? (wtf )

Also, Marauder 2h mace animation is bearable, so yay, i can play melee again.

Chubby Bunny

dasnoob wrote: »

Made it to 11 last night in my limited play on my templar. Going for a mix of elemntal defense and the defensive staff skills. So far it is pretty dang fun.

We should play sometime. I also have an 11 templar. Morghoulis is my character name.

Brody

So after reading a little, it sounds like each Spectral Throw as an action can crit, which would trigger cast on crit, which would generate less criticals than I had hoped, by I think it still rolls the chance to crit for each creature hit. This would mean that it has a high crit chance with a low trigger yield? I would assume that with a 20% crit chance, if you hit five mobs, you have a good chance of critting with each click?

Then, if you stack Spark with increased crit chance and PCoC, you will be casting a free spark every time you Spectral Throw, building charges for a discharge?

Aegis

Added my info to the spreadsheet. If it'd be possible to get a guild invite, that'd be sweet.

_J_

Would anyone be terribly upset if I made the new thread? I promise a delightful OP of useful links and updates.

RainbowDespair

Go for it _J_.