You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
read the last 5 pages again.
No, you don't get to wiggle out of it like that. That's not a valid explanation. You tell me what is misogynistic about it in your own words.
I've said it repeatedly already.
You've said that it's misogynistic repeatedly, you haven't explained it at all. Fine, I've asked you (specifically you, I know at least two others have given their reasoning) twice to back up your convictions; I won't bother with a third time and instead will just conclude that you can't.
You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
It's misogynistic because it implies that women only have value as sexual objects--it's a piece that is clearly intended for display (and is sold as such), but only portrays an eroticized torso with the limbs and head violently hacked off (as if to say that the boobs are the only important part, anyway.) That's my read on it, and it's probably a waste of time to write this out because you'll no doubt find some semantic reason why it doesn't fit your criteria.
No, that's actually a great explanation of why you see it this way and I'm glad someone wrote it in their own words. I do disagree with your take on it, but that's because I don't believe that every instance of sexual objectification is a variation on misogyny. To put it bluntly, just because someone focuses on a pair of tits doesn't mean they hate women.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
Then don't get this game? There are plenty of other zombie games out there.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
A statement on the Zombie Bait Edition:
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
A decapitated and clothed torso as a promotional item would be gross and tasteless but not incredibly offensive - it's a zombie game, gore is cool, whatever. In this case however the torso was very intentionally sexualized. For what purpose? Sex in marketing is designed to excite men to motivate them to buy a product, and there's nothing really wrong with that since sex is perfectly healthy and normal. However the only thing that a sexualized corpse brings to mind is rape, murder and necrophilia. Some things should not be joked about or glorified - it's repulsive and wrong, and calls into question what they're really thinking about their target demographic.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
Then don't get this game? There are plenty of other zombie games out there.
Ignoring something that is endemic of a particularly troubling cultural norm is really not the solution here.
I'm not going to buy it, but you bet it still bothers the shit out of me. And I will make sure to vocalize that opinion.
And your point would be more valid if the vast majority of representations of women in games weren't sexualized. They are. That's the issue.
But at this point I'm going to start drinking.
WATCH THIS SPACE.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I've heard worse apologies, to be fair. What matters is if they discontinue the plans to sell this fucking thing.
Remember when all we knew about Dead Island was that awesome trailer that seemed really poignant and emotional
The statue seems to be a limited run in Europe and Australia, and I doubt the same team was involved in making the trailers or cinematics for the game. There was clearly some misguided decisions made, but as deplorable as it is I don't see how it reflects on the game itself, or the previous/current trailers. It certainly reflects on the company as a whole, and on whoever greenlighted it, in addition to the people who designed it in the first place, but that doesn't suddenly make the game suck, or the previous trailers bad.
Maybe I just have some weird disconnection between the two though.
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But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
I don't agree, re: porn industry/movies at all but this is not the thread for it. I think that's just a poor comparison.
Plus, if one doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn, why would there be anything implicitly wrong with porn in games?
Honest question. I have no desire to have porn in my games but I have pretty strong opinions about porn in general and how damaging and harmful it is on all sorts of levels. But if you think that porn is just a 'thing' that isn't damaging, how would putting it in a game make it suddenly 'bad'?
EDIT: I mean, to stay on topic-ish; I see people lauding (not here) that Leisure Suit Larry got greenlit on Steam. I've played LSL games in my youth and looking back they're terrible games. That much of the humor is on Larry himself, doesn't change the fact that it is still a series a games full of completely gratuitous 'nudity' and doesn't really say or do anything positive for women.
I'm honestly baffled at the praise it gets (and is getting again) and then the opposite reaction to this statue. Personally I think both are fucking terrible, and am curious as to why others don't.
You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
read the last 5 pages again.
No, you don't get to wiggle out of it like that. That's not a valid explanation. You tell me what is misogynistic about it in your own words.
I've said it repeatedly already.
You've said that it's misogynistic repeatedly, you haven't explained it at all. Fine, I've asked you (specifically you, I know at least two others have given their reasoning) twice to back up your convictions; I won't bother with a third time and instead will just conclude that you can't.
You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
It's misogynistic because it implies that women only have value as sexual objects--it's a piece that is clearly intended for display (and is sold as such), but only portrays an eroticized torso with the limbs and head violently hacked off (as if to say that the boobs are the only important part, anyway.) That's my read on it, and it's probably a waste of time to write this out because you'll no doubt find some semantic reason why it doesn't fit your criteria.
No, that's actually a great explanation of why you see it this way and I'm glad someone wrote it in their own words. I do disagree with your take on it, but that's because I don't believe that every instance of sexual objectification is a variation on misogyny. To put it bluntly, just because someone focuses on a pair of tits doesn't mean they hate women.
Hating woman is not the only aspect of misogyny. Objectifying them is just a big part if not the BIGGEST part of it and can exist completely seperately from hating them. You don't accept that so you're throwing out all this bullshit about how we aren't sitting you on our collective knee and explaining it gently to you. As this point you don't fucking deserve it.
Alright. Glad we sorted that out! I think you guys are wrong and you think I'm wrong. Welcome to the Internet!
You could not have missed the point more. You don't like it because it's ugly, we all agree. We don't like it because it's ugly AND mysoginistic; you give us a golf clap for effort.
No. I fucking get it. It is sexist because it has perfect boobs. Which is a lie because everyone knows that even if it didn't have the boobs you guys would still be up in arms about how it's a woman's corpse mutilated and not a man's corpse.
YAY LOGICAL FALLACY!
Please, go on telling me how offended I'd be if the statue was less offensive.
Would you be offended if it was a statue of a man's torso.
Y/N?
Please explain how this is relevant in a world where such a statue does not exist.
I asked a yes or no question. Please answer the question and then I'll answer yours.
The comparison is dumb because as I'm sure you're well aware, men don't have boobs. They do not wear what is seen in society as sex symbols on their chest. If you really cannot understand this, then I see no reason to engage any further.
A better comparison would be one made by Magic Pink earlier, a man wearing a very tight speedo, its rather large member seemingly trying very hard to escape. And all that is left of this man is that, the rest bloodily removed, only its throbbing phallus, barely contained, remaining.
And yes, I would also totally classify that as objectification.
But such a statue doesn't exist and never will, and that's a very important fact to keep in mind, because why does its female counterpart exist?
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
Then don't get this game? There are plenty of other zombie games out there.
I'm not. Read the whole thread before crapping in it please.
"A decision was made" is a pretty weak way of saying "we thought this was an awesome idea", and they say, perhaps truthfully, that this was some assholes in another office who thought this shit up in an effort to shift blame, but this is probably as good an apology as they're going to make.
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
this comes across as kind of half-assed
It's so clearly not a zombie torso. If anything, this has made me even angrier at them.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
"A decision was made" is a pretty weak way of saying "we thought this was an awesome idea", and they say, perhaps truthfully, that this was some assholes in another office who thought this shit up in an effort to shift blame, but this is probably as good an apology as they're going to make.
It was pointed out earlier that marketing and public relations are two separate bodies parts of the business. We're now hearing from the latter on the fuckup from the former.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Also how do they think they're gonna get Mutilated Woman Edition past Australia's censors?
Australia is way more conservative than North America when it comes to censoring video game violence/sex, isn't it?
Alright. Glad we sorted that out! I think you guys are wrong and you think I'm wrong. Welcome to the Internet!
You could not have missed the point more. You don't like it because it's ugly, we all agree. We don't like it because it's ugly AND mysoginistic; you give us a golf clap for effort.
No. I fucking get it. It is sexist because it has perfect boobs. Which is a lie because everyone knows that even if it didn't have the boobs you guys would still be up in arms about how it's a woman's corpse mutilated and not a man's corpse.
YAY LOGICAL FALLACY!
Please, go on telling me how offended I'd be if the statue was less offensive.
Please keep telling me how I'm a horrible person for not seeing anything sexist from a fucking corpse statue. I do love hearing that.
Wow man, keep fucking that chicken and putting words in people's mouths that no one said and feeling all butthurt because people other than you realize this shit actually matters and hurts the industry. No one is making a judgement about you, we're pointing out that your opinion on the matter doesn't change the reality of the situation.
If you can't handle that, and it fucks up your worldview, and makes you feel all sad inside, maybe you shouldn't talk about this shit.
This is where I have to completely disagree. The statue is ugly and stupid yes, definitely sexist and maybe misogynistic. But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
The porn industry is a niche industry. Was Dead Island a niche game? No.
Look at this from a different perspective, from outside the industry/subculture. Gamers already have a tendancy to be viewed as antisocial, odd, sexist, racist, and violent. Do you think this statue, if the main stream media gets ahold of it, is going to help change that view? Do you think with the outrage inside the community, that this statue will be seen as anything other than another example of video games being for men, by men? Again, this isn't a niche title. This is a big deal game.
That's how it hurts the industry, it helps re enforce the stereotypes of the industry. It helps make the industry be even more insular because no one wants this kind of shit. And once again, the fact that this is what the industry has to offer us, no matter how offensive we think this statue is, is an example of how ignoring the smaller examples of sexism in the industry has pushed it to this point. It's ok that we get this as a collectible for a game, because we don't care about how we're perceived, or if the industry is allowed to move away from the sexist culture that it's turn out to be.
You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
read the last 5 pages again.
No, you don't get to wiggle out of it like that. That's not a valid explanation. You tell me what is misogynistic about it in your own words.
I've said it repeatedly already.
You've said that it's misogynistic repeatedly, you haven't explained it at all. Fine, I've asked you (specifically you, I know at least two others have given their reasoning) twice to back up your convictions; I won't bother with a third time and instead will just conclude that you can't.
You don't need to. It will remain mysoginistic with or without your approval.
OK, then explain how it's misogynistic. I think it's sexist because of its idealistic (to put it foolishly) portrayal of the female body. But can you prove 100% that it exists because the creator hates women? I'm going with the dictionary definition here, so please, if you can explain to me how that is a wrong interpretation of the word, I'd appreciate and welcome it.
It's misogynistic because it implies that women only have value as sexual objects--it's a piece that is clearly intended for display (and is sold as such), but only portrays an eroticized torso with the limbs and head violently hacked off (as if to say that the boobs are the only important part, anyway.) That's my read on it, and it's probably a waste of time to write this out because you'll no doubt find some semantic reason why it doesn't fit your criteria.
No, that's actually a great explanation of why you see it this way and I'm glad someone wrote it in their own words. I do disagree with your take on it, but that's because I don't believe that every instance of sexual objectification is a variation on misogyny. To put it bluntly, just because someone focuses on a pair of tits doesn't mean they hate women.
Oh my God. You really are ignoring my post just so you can continue your "it's not misogynist" tangent
Regardless of whether you want to call it misogyny, can you at least admit that the literal reduction of a woman to a pair of tits is a bad thing? Can you really not understand why some of us feel that is a bad thing and that we should express that it is a bad thing?
Oh, and to pre-emptively reply to your "lol wikipedia" response, you'll find it's an incredibly well-sourced article.
I mean, if they wanted a "sexy" statue why not something like, say: a lady in bikini with a decapitated zombie head in one hand and a bloody two by four in the other.
Or something along those lines, whatever.
You can, like, have something be sexualized without literally reducing it to meaningless tits.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
I don't agree, re: porn industry/movies at all but this is not the thread for it. I think that's just a poor comparison.
Plus, if one doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn, why would there be anything implicitly wrong with porn in games?
Honest question. I have no desire to have porn in my games but I have pretty strong opinions about porn in general and how damaging and harmful it is on all sorts of levels. But if you think that porn is just a 'thing' that isn't damaging, how would putting it in a game make it suddenly 'bad'?
EDIT: I mean, to stay on topic-ish; I see people lauding that Leisure Suit Larry got greenlit on Steam. I've played LSL games in my youth and looking back they're terrible games. That much of the humor is on Larry himself, doesn't change the fact that it is still a series a games full of completely gratuitous 'nudity' and doesn't really say or do anything positive for women.
I'm honestly baffled at the praise it gets (and is getting again) and then the opposite reaction to this statue. Personally I think both are fucking terrible, and am curious as to why others don't.
I didn't say anything about what porn is, morally, nor will I. That is a can of juniper beetles I am not interested in inviting to my tea party.
I, personally, do not want my porn and my games to mix and that is strictly my opinion. Others can have differing feelings on that and I would not care a whit. If you wants you the jubblies in your video games, I'm fine with it.
And LSL is an awful awful awful series.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I can see a situation where all parties involved decide that a mutilated zombie torso would be a neat little statue to include in the collector's edition, only for some clown in the marketing department going all "this mutilated zombie torso just aint sexy enough, and that's a problem because all I know about marketing is that sex sells".
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
this comes across as kind of half-assed
Were they trying to pass this off as a "zombie" torso prior to the outrage, or are they backpedaling hard? Because the name of the collectors edition implies that it's a victim. Not to mention the very unzombielike skin tone as pointed out earlier in the thread.
I mean, if they wanted a "sexy" statue why not something like, say: a lady in bikini with a decapitated zombie head in one hand and a bloody two by four in the other.
Or something along those lines, whatever.
You can, like, have something be sexualized without literally reducing it to meaningless tits.
I wouldn't buy that either but I at least wouldn't be offended by it.
Like I say, repeatedly, sex sells and there's nothing wrong with buying. But this thing is way way beyond that. Even if it was just a bust, with no mutilation, it would have been tacky but not as reprehensible as this thing is.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
Then don't get this game? There are plenty of other zombie games out there.
I'm not. Read the whole thread before crapping in it please.
My point is, give them their own freedom of expression. Its a stupid statue, its a stupid idea, and its probably a stupid game if it features stuff like that in it, so let them fail. If it doesn't fail and it turns out there are a ton of people out there who enjoy the thought of a bloody torso with huge boobs then we can make a thread discussing the doom of mankind and I will be the first in line with a pitchfork and a torch ready to march on this studio. But for now, it just seems like a stupid decision by a very bad marketing group, not the end of video games and mankind as we know it.
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
this comes across as kind of half-assed
Were they trying to pass this off as a "zombie" torso prior to the outrage, or are they backpedaling hard? Because the name of the collectors edition implies that it's a victim. Not to mention the very unzombielike skin tone as pointed out earlier in the thread.
Edit: This thread moves fast.
Yeah I don't see anything zombified in the statue.
But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
I don't agree, re: porn industry/movies at all but this is not the thread for it. I think that's just a poor comparison.
Plus, if one doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn, why would there be anything implicitly wrong with porn in games?
Honest question. I have no desire to have porn in my games but I have pretty strong opinions about porn in general and how damaging and harmful it is on all sorts of levels. But if you think that porn is just a 'thing' that isn't damaging, how would putting it in a game make it suddenly 'bad'?
EDIT: I mean, to stay on topic-ish; I see people lauding that Leisure Suit Larry got greenlit on Steam. I've played LSL games in my youth and looking back they're terrible games. That much of the humor is on Larry himself, doesn't change the fact that it is still a series a games full of completely gratuitous 'nudity' and doesn't really say or do anything positive for women.
I'm honestly baffled at the praise it gets (and is getting again) and then the opposite reaction to this statue. Personally I think both are fucking terrible, and am curious as to why others don't.
I didn't say anything about what porn is, morally, nor will I. That is a can of juniper beetles I am not interested in inviting to my tea party.
I, personally, do not want my porn and my games to mix and that is strictly my opinion. Others can have differing feelings on that and I would not care a whit. If you wants you the jubblies in your video games, I'm fine with it.
And LSL is an awful awful awful series.
Sorry, I meant 'you' in a more general sense, not trying to apply a specific stance to you necessarily.
I had all but forgotten about LSL but it is suddenly greenlit and I don't see a lot of people too torn up about it, when for my money it's no better than this statue, as far as objectification and misogynistic aspects go. It just focuses entirely on objectification, and treating women as sexual objects to be conquered, and the statue is about violence and sex, and women being no more than a pair of tits.
Also how do they think they're gonna get Mutilated Woman Edition past Australia's censors?
Australia is way more conservative than North America when it comes to censoring video game violence/sex, isn't it?
Actually, Australia's censorship is much more concerned with drugs.
That said, I doubt that they'd would be marketing this if they didn't know yet if they were allowed to sell it in the respective countries.
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I can see a situation where all parties involved decide that a mutilated zombie torso would be a neat little statue to include in the collector's edition, only for some clown in the marketing department going all "this mutilated zombie torso just aint sexy enough, and that's a problem because all I know about marketing is that sex sells".
A mutilated zombie torso probably would be a neat little thing to include with a CE, hell even a "sexy" one. Problem is that thing was just a mutilated "sexy" torso sans any indication of zombieism.
Like I mentioned in the last thread, a female friend of mine (and a big zombie fan) thought it was stupid not because it was a sexy female torso, but because it lacked anything to do with zombies. She later told me that if the thing had a zombie head and maybe like a hand reaching out then she'd totally want one.
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But to say that this statue is ruining the Video Game Industry? That's just absolutely knee jerk and wrong. The industry can appeal to a large variety, but there are specific games that will try to appeal to more specific core audiences. I really enjoy playing video games with my girlfriend and to that end I like that the industry has a wide variety of games that can appeal to everyone. But if there can be a porn industry then I don't see why including something like this in video games is hurting the industry. Its certainly not something I am going to be picking up, but then you don't see me boycotting cinema because some movies are made with dumb girls with huge boobs.
Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
I don't agree, re: porn industry/movies at all but this is not the thread for it. I think that's just a poor comparison.
Plus, if one doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn, why would there be anything implicitly wrong with porn in games?
Honest question. I have no desire to have porn in my games but I have pretty strong opinions about porn in general and how damaging and harmful it is on all sorts of levels. But if you think that porn is just a 'thing' that isn't damaging, how would putting it in a game make it suddenly 'bad'?
EDIT: I mean, to stay on topic-ish; I see people lauding that Leisure Suit Larry got greenlit on Steam. I've played LSL games in my youth and looking back they're terrible games. That much of the humor is on Larry himself, doesn't change the fact that it is still a series a games full of completely gratuitous 'nudity' and doesn't really say or do anything positive for women.
I'm honestly baffled at the praise it gets (and is getting again) and then the opposite reaction to this statue. Personally I think both are fucking terrible, and am curious as to why others don't.
I didn't say anything about what porn is, morally, nor will I. That is a can of juniper beetles I am not interested in inviting to my tea party.
I, personally, do not want my porn and my games to mix and that is strictly my opinion. Others can have differing feelings on that and I would not care a whit. If you wants you the jubblies in your video games, I'm fine with it.
And LSL is an awful awful awful series.
Sorry, I meant 'you' in a more general sense, not trying to apply a specific stance to you necessarily.
I had all but forgotten about LSL but it is suddenly greenlit and I don't see a lot of people too torn up about it, when for my money it's no better than this statue, as far as objectification and misogynistic aspects go. It just focuses entirely on objectification, and treating women as sexual objects to be conquered, and the statue is about violence and sex, and women being no more than a pair of tits.
I'm guessing LSL gets a pass from most because it tries to come off as funny.
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
this comes across as kind of half-assed
Were they trying to pass this off as a "zombie" torso prior to the outrage, or are they backpedaling hard? Because the name of the collectors edition implies that it's a victim. Not to mention the very unzombielike skin tone as pointed out earlier in the thread.
Edit: This thread moves fast.
Yeah I don't see anything zombified in the statue.
ROFL how the fuck can they try to act like 'it's a zombie statue' when it's named zombie bait?
Wowywowow :rotate:
Has Techland said anything yet? Or just Deep Silver?
We deeply apologize for any offense caused by the Dead Island Riptide “Zombie Bait Edition”, the collector’s edition announced for Europe and Australia. Like many gaming companies, Deep Silver has many offices in different countries, which is why sometimes different versions of Collector’s Editions come into being for North America, Europe, Australia, and Asia.
For the limited run of the Zombie Bait Edition for Europe and Australia, a decision was made to include a gruesome statue of a zombie torso, which was cut up like many of our fans had done to the undead enemies in the original Dead Island.
We sincerely regret this choice. We are collecting feedback continuously from the Dead Island community, as well as the international gaming community at large, for ongoing internal meetings with Deep Silver's entire international team today. For now, we want to reiterate to the community, fans and industry how deeply sorry we are, and that we are committed to making sure this will never happen again.
this comes across as kind of half-assed
Were they trying to pass this off as a "zombie" torso prior to the outrage, or are they backpedaling hard? Because the name of the collectors edition implies that it's a victim. Not to mention the very unzombielike skin tone as pointed out earlier in the thread.
Edit: This thread moves fast.
Yeah I don't see anything zombified in the statue.
I completely agree - you don't bait zombies with other zombies, you do it with fresh non-zombie meat.
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That statue is all kinds of fucked
Remember when all we knew about Dead Island was that awesome trailer that seemed really poignant and emotional
You've said that it's misogynistic repeatedly, you haven't explained it at all. Fine, I've asked you (specifically you, I know at least two others have given their reasoning) twice to back up your convictions; I won't bother with a third time and instead will just conclude that you can't.
No, that's actually a great explanation of why you see it this way and I'm glad someone wrote it in their own words. I do disagree with your take on it, but that's because I don't believe that every instance of sexual objectification is a variation on misogyny. To put it bluntly, just because someone focuses on a pair of tits doesn't mean they hate women.
I will take that bet. Having women involved does not make misogyny dry up and vanish. Just as many women buy into that crap as men do.
If it makes you feel any better, the trailer to this one was really good too!
I'm willing to bet it won't be by tomorrow.
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Porn movies are made FOR SEX. That's why they're there. This game is not porn as much as they are suddenly trying to make look like it is.
I don't want porn, gay OR straight, in my video games about killing fucking zombies.
Then don't get this game? There are plenty of other zombie games out there.
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this comes across as kind of half-assed
What should they do for Dead Island 2?
Ignoring something that is endemic of a particularly troubling cultural norm is really not the solution here.
I'm not going to buy it, but you bet it still bothers the shit out of me. And I will make sure to vocalize that opinion.
And your point would be more valid if the vast majority of representations of women in games weren't sexualized. They are. That's the issue.
But at this point I'm going to start drinking.
The statue seems to be a limited run in Europe and Australia, and I doubt the same team was involved in making the trailers or cinematics for the game. There was clearly some misguided decisions made, but as deplorable as it is I don't see how it reflects on the game itself, or the previous/current trailers. It certainly reflects on the company as a whole, and on whoever greenlighted it, in addition to the people who designed it in the first place, but that doesn't suddenly make the game suck, or the previous trailers bad.
Maybe I just have some weird disconnection between the two though.
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I don't agree, re: porn industry/movies at all but this is not the thread for it. I think that's just a poor comparison.
Plus, if one doesn't think there is anything wrong with porn, why would there be anything implicitly wrong with porn in games?
Honest question. I have no desire to have porn in my games but I have pretty strong opinions about porn in general and how damaging and harmful it is on all sorts of levels. But if you think that porn is just a 'thing' that isn't damaging, how would putting it in a game make it suddenly 'bad'?
EDIT: I mean, to stay on topic-ish; I see people lauding (not here) that Leisure Suit Larry got greenlit on Steam. I've played LSL games in my youth and looking back they're terrible games. That much of the humor is on Larry himself, doesn't change the fact that it is still a series a games full of completely gratuitous 'nudity' and doesn't really say or do anything positive for women.
I'm honestly baffled at the praise it gets (and is getting again) and then the opposite reaction to this statue. Personally I think both are fucking terrible, and am curious as to why others don't.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Hating woman is not the only aspect of misogyny. Objectifying them is just a big part if not the BIGGEST part of it and can exist completely seperately from hating them. You don't accept that so you're throwing out all this bullshit about how we aren't sitting you on our collective knee and explaining it gently to you. As this point you don't fucking deserve it.
The comparison is dumb because as I'm sure you're well aware, men don't have boobs. They do not wear what is seen in society as sex symbols on their chest. If you really cannot understand this, then I see no reason to engage any further.
A better comparison would be one made by Magic Pink earlier, a man wearing a very tight speedo, its rather large member seemingly trying very hard to escape. And all that is left of this man is that, the rest bloodily removed, only its throbbing phallus, barely contained, remaining.
And yes, I would also totally classify that as objectification.
But such a statue doesn't exist and never will, and that's a very important fact to keep in mind, because why does its female counterpart exist?
I'm not. Read the whole thread before crapping in it please.
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It's so clearly not a zombie torso. If anything, this has made me even angrier at them.
It was pointed out earlier that marketing and public relations are two separate bodies parts of the business. We're now hearing from the latter on the fuckup from the former.
Australia is way more conservative than North America when it comes to censoring video game violence/sex, isn't it?
I'd be more inclined to only buy the trailers for this franchise, heh. :P
and Fawst, you're crusading this "prove it's really misogyny" thing pretty hard for someone who said you didn't care about this a few times already.
edit: sometimes my sentences make sense, other times...
The porn industry is a niche industry. Was Dead Island a niche game? No.
Look at this from a different perspective, from outside the industry/subculture. Gamers already have a tendancy to be viewed as antisocial, odd, sexist, racist, and violent. Do you think this statue, if the main stream media gets ahold of it, is going to help change that view? Do you think with the outrage inside the community, that this statue will be seen as anything other than another example of video games being for men, by men? Again, this isn't a niche title. This is a big deal game.
That's how it hurts the industry, it helps re enforce the stereotypes of the industry. It helps make the industry be even more insular because no one wants this kind of shit. And once again, the fact that this is what the industry has to offer us, no matter how offensive we think this statue is, is an example of how ignoring the smaller examples of sexism in the industry has pushed it to this point. It's ok that we get this as a collectible for a game, because we don't care about how we're perceived, or if the industry is allowed to move away from the sexist culture that it's turn out to be.
Oh my God. You really are ignoring my post just so you can continue your "it's not misogynist" tangent
@Fawst
@Fawst
@Fawst
Or something along those lines, whatever.
You can, like, have something be sexualized without literally reducing it to meaningless tits.
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I didn't say anything about what porn is, morally, nor will I. That is a can of juniper beetles I am not interested in inviting to my tea party.
I, personally, do not want my porn and my games to mix and that is strictly my opinion. Others can have differing feelings on that and I would not care a whit. If you wants you the jubblies in your video games, I'm fine with it.
And LSL is an awful awful awful series.
Were they trying to pass this off as a "zombie" torso prior to the outrage, or are they backpedaling hard? Because the name of the collectors edition implies that it's a victim. Not to mention the very unzombielike skin tone as pointed out earlier in the thread.
Edit: This thread moves fast.
I wouldn't buy that either but I at least wouldn't be offended by it.
Like I say, repeatedly, sex sells and there's nothing wrong with buying. But this thing is way way beyond that. Even if it was just a bust, with no mutilation, it would have been tacky but not as reprehensible as this thing is.
My point is, give them their own freedom of expression. Its a stupid statue, its a stupid idea, and its probably a stupid game if it features stuff like that in it, so let them fail. If it doesn't fail and it turns out there are a ton of people out there who enjoy the thought of a bloody torso with huge boobs then we can make a thread discussing the doom of mankind and I will be the first in line with a pitchfork and a torch ready to march on this studio. But for now, it just seems like a stupid decision by a very bad marketing group, not the end of video games and mankind as we know it.
PSN: rlinkmanl
Yeah I don't see anything zombified in the statue.
Sorry, I meant 'you' in a more general sense, not trying to apply a specific stance to you necessarily.
I had all but forgotten about LSL but it is suddenly greenlit and I don't see a lot of people too torn up about it, when for my money it's no better than this statue, as far as objectification and misogynistic aspects go. It just focuses entirely on objectification, and treating women as sexual objects to be conquered, and the statue is about violence and sex, and women being no more than a pair of tits.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Actually, Australia's censorship is much more concerned with drugs.
That said, I doubt that they'd would be marketing this if they didn't know yet if they were allowed to sell it in the respective countries.
A mutilated zombie torso probably would be a neat little thing to include with a CE, hell even a "sexy" one. Problem is that thing was just a mutilated "sexy" torso sans any indication of zombieism.
Like I mentioned in the last thread, a female friend of mine (and a big zombie fan) thought it was stupid not because it was a sexy female torso, but because it lacked anything to do with zombies. She later told me that if the thing had a zombie head and maybe like a hand reaching out then she'd totally want one.
I'm guessing LSL gets a pass from most because it tries to come off as funny.
ROFL how the fuck can they try to act like 'it's a zombie statue' when it's named zombie bait?
Wowywowow :rotate:
Has Techland said anything yet? Or just Deep Silver?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I completely agree - you don't bait zombies with other zombies, you do it with fresh non-zombie meat.
I like this phrase.