Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
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Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
Delphinidaes on
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Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
I think you are over-complicating this. When it shifts from in-game to cutscene, it seems like it goes from 60fps to 30fps or 24fps. It looks like frames are being dropped, or to be dramatic, like I am watching a slideshow, until I get accustomed to it. The downgrade is jarring.
Its not much different than watching an HD sports feed, then switching over to a 1080p24fps bluray. Its jarring at first until I adjust. The difference there being that I am invested in the movie for a couple hours, where as the game shifts back and forth.
I suspect this will be less of a factor as I break out of the intro portion of the game.
Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
I think you are over-complicating this. When it shifts from in-game to cutscene, it seems like it goes from 60fps to 30fps or 24fps. It looks like frames are being dropped, or to be dramatic, like I am watching a slideshow, until I get accustomed to it. The downgrade is jarring.
Its not much different than watching an HD sports feed, then switching over to a 1080p24fps bluray. Its jarring at first until I adjust. The difference there being that I am invested in the movie for a couple hours, where as the game shifts back and forth.
I suspect this will be less of a factor as I break out of the intro portion of the game.
That makes sense, but what threw me was your first statement saying they should have had the animation at 60 fps which as an animation major i'm pretty sure caused a brief aneurysm in my brain as it tried to make sense of that statement.
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For instance, the animation of the car moving in one of the first animated scenes is staccato, not smooth. It's a bit jarring.
Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
For instance, the animation of the car moving in one of the first animated scenes is staccato, not smooth. It's a bit jarring.
Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
Yeah I didn't get that at all when I was playing it last night, the only stuttering I got on that scene was when the car first started up and they actually animated it stuttering a bit.
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1up or something that said they did the FF13 double digit long tutorial before you get all the stuff they could've unlocked right away, that it's grindy, and that the pacing is really bad and they seem to have stretched what could've been a meaty 25 hour game into a much longer one just for longevity's sake.
I'm not into double digits of hours yet, but I feel that the FF13 comparison is just gaming media being idiots as usual. In FF13 I literally felt the game was constricting me and forcing me to play with training wheels for 20 hours. In NNK, familiars are the only major thing that you cant access every aspect of right away. I'm about 4 hours in and have 3 familiars and from what I can tell I have access to all the basic stuff. Nothing like FF13 where its hour after hour of forcing you to use certain characters with specific paradigms and shit.
Not sure wtf they are talking about with pacing though, probably can't make an honest call until finishing the game though. I will say that stopping to do sidequests is MUCH more rewarding than most JRPGS. You get rewarded with stamp cards to trade for really good perks. Like faster world map movement, or easier chance to sneak up on a mob. Already I feel a huge motivation to clear out every side quest in each place I go.
Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
I think you are over-complicating this. When it shifts from in-game to cutscene, it seems like it goes from 60fps to 30fps or 24fps. It looks like frames are being dropped, or to be dramatic, like I am watching a slideshow, until I get accustomed to it. The downgrade is jarring.
Its not much different than watching an HD sports feed, then switching over to a 1080p24fps bluray. Its jarring at first until I adjust. The difference there being that I am invested in the movie for a couple hours, where as the game shifts back and forth.
I suspect this will be less of a factor as I break out of the intro portion of the game.
That makes sense, but what threw me was your first statement saying they should have had the animation at 60 fps which as an animation major i'm pretty sure caused a brief aneurysm in my brain as it tried to make sense of that statement.
As a consumer, I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation, especially for cutscenes in a game. 60fps is increasingly becoming the standard for games. I think the 24fps standard in film is a bit archaic, too, but at least that is the industry standard and is firmly so. There should be flexibility, though, when the two mediums come together, with consideration for the resulting product and intended audience (in this case, gamers playing a video game.)
I can understand why that is hard to achieve on the production side, though, especially when the industry is so firmly entrenched with that old standard.
Also, just to be clear, this is such a minor gripe in the overall scheme of things. I really enjoyed what I played last night.
1up or something that said they did the FF13 double digit long tutorial before you get all the stuff they could've unlocked right away, that it's grindy, and that the pacing is really bad and they seem to have stretched what could've been a meaty 25 hour game into a much longer one just for longevity's sake.
I'm not into double digits of hours yet, but I feel that the FF13 comparison is just gaming media being idiots as usual. In FF13 I literally felt the game was constricting me and forcing me to play with training wheels for 20 hours. In NNK, familiars are the only major thing that you cant access every aspect of right away. I'm about 4 hours in and have 3 familiars and from what I can tell I have access to all the basic stuff. Nothing like FF13 where its hour after hour of forcing you to use certain characters with specific paradigms and shit.
Not sure wtf they are talking about with pacing though, probably can't make an honest call until finishing the game though. I will say that stopping to do sidequests is MUCH more rewarding than most JRPGS. You get rewarded with stamp cards to trade for really good perks. Like faster world map movement, or easier chance to sneak up on a mob. Already I feel a huge motivation to clear out every side quest in each place I go.
Yeah, this is nothing like FF13. In FF13, it was like 3-4 hours before you even unlocked the ability to LV-Up or could do much of anything other than Attack or use a potion.
Yeah, it's the FPS change that's doing it. It's jarring to me too. I have to wonder why they bothered with the animation and just didn't do everything in the in-game engine but I'm guessing people expected some animiation from Gibli. And it's not a BAD thing just a little skip in the visuals while you re-orient.
But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
I think you are over-complicating this. When it shifts from in-game to cutscene, it seems like it goes from 60fps to 30fps or 24fps. It looks like frames are being dropped, or to be dramatic, like I am watching a slideshow, until I get accustomed to it. The downgrade is jarring.
Its not much different than watching an HD sports feed, then switching over to a 1080p24fps bluray. Its jarring at first until I adjust. The difference there being that I am invested in the movie for a couple hours, where as the game shifts back and forth.
I suspect this will be less of a factor as I break out of the intro portion of the game.
That makes sense, but what threw me was your first statement saying they should have had the animation at 60 fps which as an animation major i'm pretty sure caused a brief aneurysm in my brain as it tried to make sense of that statement.
As a consumer, I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation, especially for cutscenes in a game. 60fps is increasingly becoming the standard for games. I think the 24fps standard in film is a bit archaic, too, but at least that is the industry standard and is firmly so. There should be flexibility, though, when the two mediums come together, with consideration for the resulting product and intended audience (in this case, gamers playing a video game.)
I can understand why that is hard to achieve on the production side, though, especially when the industry is so firmly entrenched with that old standard.
Also, just to be clear, this is such a minor gripe in the overall scheme of things. I really enjoyed what I played last night.
This is what i'm talking about though. You are equating film fps to game fps, but it's more complicated than that because the "Frames per second" metric is a bit different between the two.
In film and animation FPS refers to how many frames are displayed within a second of time.
In Games it refers to how often the screen refreshes in a second of time.
In film and animation you record/render the scene in a long series of frames which are then played at a specific rate (24, 29, or 30 frames per second) to provide the illusion of motion. To be able to achieve what you are talking about in terms of 2d animation you would need to create twice the amount of drawings and then play them at twice the current rate to achieve what you are looking for, which is a massive undertaking in terms of man power and time.
It's a bit better in film because you can record at the rate you like and go from there.
Same applies to 3d animation as you can control the frame rates how you like.
In games however you can increase the fps much more easily because by increasing the power of your pc you can increase how quickly the screen refreshes. (obviously hardware is important here but you get what I mean) And your eye can discern subtle differences that equate to an overall smoother performance.
So while industry standard is certainly one aspect (and I would agree it's the main one holding us back in terms of traditional film) in terms of 2d animation there is a much larger effect in trying to scale up to that level of detail.
There are also some arguments about 24fps being the most comfortable viewing rate for film and such but I think those are typically more subjective arguments.
Also I get that this is a minor gripe and I don't think you are insulting the game or anything like that, I just think it's a neat opportunity to share how animation is done and part of why it uses the frame rate it does.
I should note that while animation is played at 29 or 30 fps typically there are actually only 15 actual drawings in the span of a second as each drawing is held for 2 frames, this is not a constant though as you can play with how long or short you hold a frame to help smooth out the animation or to emphasize certain aspects of it.
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For instance, the animation of the car moving in one of the first animated scenes is staccato, not smooth. It's a bit jarring.
Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
Yeah, I understand how this thing goes.
I'm Brazilian, so every single song from the USA and UK were complete gibberish to me until I was like 12 (and studying english for a couple of years). All movies from Hollywood are either dubbed (on TV) or subbed (on the theater). Therefore I'm perfectly aware of the whole issue.
I also spent two years as team leader and translator on several large game localization projects, which included VA. One of those projects was chosen the best game localization 2012 in Brazil, running against Halo, Uncharted, LOL and Assassin's Creed. Two or three actors with 30+ years of VA work (in movies and TV) each happened to tell me how VA is very different from other kinds of acting. I had the pleasure of meting Richard Honeywood, the guy from Square Enix responsible for DQ8. He's Australian, but was raised in Japan, so he has an amazing knowledge of both English and Japanese (He was at Nintendo Japan before Square, for instance). He told me an amazing anecdote about Yangus VA.
My point is that I have some passing knowledge of this particular subject. But saying that an English VA is shit because the Japanese version is not comprehensible, therefore being better, is not something that makes much sense to me. Saying "I like the Japanese version better" is different from saying "the English version is shit".
But this is not the "GAMING VA" thread, so I'll go back to grumbling about how I'll probably won't be getting my Wizard Edition because Digital River sucks.
For instance, the animation of the car moving in one of the first animated scenes is staccato, not smooth. It's a bit jarring.
Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
But this is not the "GAMING VA" thread, so I'll go back to grumbling about how I'll probably won't be getting my Wizard Edition because Digital River sucks.
Too right, clearly this is the "Gaming vs Film/Animation industries" thread.
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For instance, the animation of the car moving in one of the first animated scenes is staccato, not smooth. It's a bit jarring.
Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
But this is not the "GAMING VA" thread, so I'll go back to grumbling about how I'll probably won't be getting my Wizard Edition because Digital River sucks.
Too right, clearly this is the "Gaming vs Film/Animation industries" thread.
I'm pretty sure it's the "now I want to hear the amazing anecdote about Yangus' VA come on Stormwatcher don't leave me hanging" thread.
And if you're taking the Japanese dub, you are absolutely missing out. Subtitles off and English v.o. exponentially increases the charm factor in this game.
I can guarantee you I'm not missing anything. The Japanese is incredibly charming on it's own.
And let's just nip the sub/dub argument now please? It's just a preference; let it go.
When it comes to anime I typically prefer spoken Japanese with English subs simply because the written translation usually stays truer to the original Japanese script (and they don't have to truncate or fill words due to lip-sync issues). However in Ni No Kuni the English subtitles appear to be a transcript of the spoken English track and not a translation of the original Japanese, which I was a little disappointed to discover. That being, said, the English voice actors seem to do a pretty good job (at least from the couple hours that I listened to in English).
I'm not saying English dub is better or worse than Japanese + English subs; I just wanted to point out that in this case the content of the English subs = the content of the English dub.
Well it's pretty short, actually, but very sweet.
According to Richard, it turns out the actor was actually some sort of real life Yangus . On top of being a big, beefy, tough guy boxer with a soft side, he did speak with that exact accent, and he grew up in this very violent criminal London underworld, and almost became a gangster, but managed to find another way out. So, when the actor was told about Yangus, he got all teareyed and immediately agreed to fly all the way to Japan to do the character, because Yangus was really close to his heart. It was like playing himself (or 'imself) in a videogame.
I mean, when Richard told us, it was actually quite heartwarming. I don't think I did the story justice. Damn you charming Aussie accent tempered with Japanese politeness!
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Stormy pinky mage did not actually say the english was shit he just said the japanese is also good.
He was making a "this side is great too!" not a "that side is shit" statement.
Downgrade yourself to cloudy with a chance of meatballs and lets get on with life.
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Not playing a Lvl5/Ghibli game in English is just mind-boggling to me.
Just got my copy in the mail past lunchtime. I'll start playing it tonight or tomorrow.
Not playing a Lvl5/Ghibli game in English is just mind-boggling to me.
Just got my copy in the mail past lunchtime. I'll start playing it tonight or tomorrow.
You do know if you don't start tonight i'll just end up torturing you with more tidbits when I play it
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I actually wanna apologize, I was not a nice person. The only thing I do disagree for reals is that DQ VIII's VA is bad, other than that, I have no beef.
And I wish we had a localization thread I love this subject.
Not playing a Lvl5/Ghibli game in English is just mind-boggling to me.
Just got my copy in the mail past lunchtime. I'll start playing it tonight or tomorrow.
You do know if you don't start tonight i'll just end up torturing you with more tidbits when I play it
It's the dilemma of play this or watch more One Piece when I'm in the middle of a great arc. It makes it a hard decision.
And let's just nip the sub/dub argument now please? It's just a preference; let it go.
Wow, relax.
However in Ni No Kuni the English subtitles appear to be a transcript of the spoken English track and not a translation of the original Japanese, which I was a little disappointed to discover.
Exactly. I do not know the colloquial understanding of modern Japanese (in regards to the English language), but it's highly unlikely the Japanese VA is reflective of the English script in terms of the conversational details.
That said both are serviceable, even if one is valued above the other simply because you can't tell if its garbage or not (that's certainly a new one).
As for the pacing of the game in regards to FF13 - wow. In what reality? 30+ hours of that game and all of a sudden it tosses you into the REAL game, and you actually get full control of all party members/side quests/etc. Not even close. No you don't get access to all the gameplay mechanics at once, but what kind of narrative does that serve? What you do get in the first 4 or 5 hours (minus the 1st hour of story) is less extended story more "Let's build this up with each block of gameplay getting more and more badassified".
Not playing a Lvl5/Ghibli game in English is just mind-boggling to me.
Just got my copy in the mail past lunchtime. I'll start playing it tonight or tomorrow.
I started last night in Japanese. I will try the English dub but unless it's amazing, I doubt I will bother. I didn't even try the Emglish dub in Zero Escape until I was something like 30 hours in and then I immediately switched back.
I don't know if that makes me a weeaboo or whatever but I generally detest English dubs if I have a choice (which I admittedly don't always have).
Subs aren't perfect; I know that. I don't expect them to transliterated. However, I prefer to interpret a work through a combination of the inflection of the original VA coupled with whatever the localized subs recommend as the meaning of whatever is being said.
At the end of the day, dialogue is there to support what is going on in the game - they compliment the actions characters take and describe events as they occur. It doesn't need to be perfect - and neither a dub not subs will be - to figure out what the designers meant in a given scene.
Also I personally find it incongruous when a game is culturally set in a particular locale and the voices are all in English. It's not a huge deal but if Persona 3 and Persona 4 were available to play in English text with Japanese VA, I would have absolutely chosen Japanese.
That said, if a dub is good I don't mind using it. But clearly they included both as an option because some people want to play using Japanese speech. I generally hate dubs in anime do I tend to gravitate to Japanese + English subs in games whenever available.
You're free and clear to prefer the original and not like it. That's your right as somebody with free will. Just so long as nobody goes "It's horrible and shit and you should all feel bad for listening to it".
Tidy?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Well, I will give the localized dub a whirl tonight.
I'm waiting until I get my gold familiar from the guide tomorrow before playing in earnest anyway.
Also, the MC looks like the kid from Professor Layton and the Curious Village.
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Just had to reschedule delivery via USPS because they brushed lightly against my door and didn't bother to leave a notice. Nevermind the fact that my mail slot is huge and they could have just shoved it in there.
You're free and clear to prefer the original and not like it. That's your right as somebody with free will. Just so long as nobody goes "It's horrible and shit and you should all feel bad for listening to it".
Tidy?
Exactly. You're free to listen to whatever you feel like, but don't go bashing the other for no reason. You might prefer to play games in Japanese but that doesn't mean that Ni no Kuni's English dub is bad.
"Okay, Esther, I want you to focus on healing."
"Well, I would Oliver, but I shat out all my MP on worthless attack spells in the first five seconds of combat! Tee-hee!"
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But not the animation itself right? Just when you transition from one to the other?
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No, the animation itself is running at a slightly smaller FPS then the game engine just because of the nature of the two mediums; nothing is going wrong or anything. It's just most noticable when it first changes and then you get used to it again. You may not notice it depending on your set up tho; I sit very close to a large HD TV.
Well yeah I get that, but that's animation in general. I don't know, maybe I've just played a lot of rpg's where they mix the two mediums so i'm used to it. I am also playing it on an HD monitor that I am sitting in front of.
Equating animation fps to game fps always seems weird to me because they don't mean the same thing really.
For example I can capture footage of a game that was being played at 120fps (just using a random number) and if I capture that footage it is then being played at 30fps as an animation when I play it back. The footage is still of 120fps, but it's also 30fps because that is how video footage is played.
In the game you aren't being dropped to a lower framerate, you are watching a video.
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I think you are over-complicating this. When it shifts from in-game to cutscene, it seems like it goes from 60fps to 30fps or 24fps. It looks like frames are being dropped, or to be dramatic, like I am watching a slideshow, until I get accustomed to it. The downgrade is jarring.
Its not much different than watching an HD sports feed, then switching over to a 1080p24fps bluray. Its jarring at first until I adjust. The difference there being that I am invested in the movie for a couple hours, where as the game shifts back and forth.
I suspect this will be less of a factor as I break out of the intro portion of the game.
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That makes sense, but what threw me was your first statement saying they should have had the animation at 60 fps which as an animation major i'm pretty sure caused a brief aneurysm in my brain as it tried to make sense of that statement.
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Also, @Stormwatcher, not understanding something can lead to greater enjoyment. There is a Russian song I like by t.A.T.y. It has a great sound but the lyrics are total crap. If it were in English, I probably wouldn't be able to listen to it. It's a weird dissociation, but it's one I can empathize with.
Yeah I didn't get that at all when I was playing it last night, the only stuttering I got on that scene was when the car first started up and they actually animated it stuttering a bit.
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I'm not into double digits of hours yet, but I feel that the FF13 comparison is just gaming media being idiots as usual. In FF13 I literally felt the game was constricting me and forcing me to play with training wheels for 20 hours. In NNK, familiars are the only major thing that you cant access every aspect of right away. I'm about 4 hours in and have 3 familiars and from what I can tell I have access to all the basic stuff. Nothing like FF13 where its hour after hour of forcing you to use certain characters with specific paradigms and shit.
Not sure wtf they are talking about with pacing though, probably can't make an honest call until finishing the game though. I will say that stopping to do sidequests is MUCH more rewarding than most JRPGS. You get rewarded with stamp cards to trade for really good perks. Like faster world map movement, or easier chance to sneak up on a mob. Already I feel a huge motivation to clear out every side quest in each place I go.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a consumer, I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation, especially for cutscenes in a game. 60fps is increasingly becoming the standard for games. I think the 24fps standard in film is a bit archaic, too, but at least that is the industry standard and is firmly so. There should be flexibility, though, when the two mediums come together, with consideration for the resulting product and intended audience (in this case, gamers playing a video game.)
I can understand why that is hard to achieve on the production side, though, especially when the industry is so firmly entrenched with that old standard.
Also, just to be clear, this is such a minor gripe in the overall scheme of things. I really enjoyed what I played last night.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
You and me both.
Yeah, this is nothing like FF13. In FF13, it was like 3-4 hours before you even unlocked the ability to LV-Up or could do much of anything other than Attack or use a potion.
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This is what i'm talking about though. You are equating film fps to game fps, but it's more complicated than that because the "Frames per second" metric is a bit different between the two.
In film and animation FPS refers to how many frames are displayed within a second of time.
In Games it refers to how often the screen refreshes in a second of time.
In film and animation you record/render the scene in a long series of frames which are then played at a specific rate (24, 29, or 30 frames per second) to provide the illusion of motion. To be able to achieve what you are talking about in terms of 2d animation you would need to create twice the amount of drawings and then play them at twice the current rate to achieve what you are looking for, which is a massive undertaking in terms of man power and time.
It's a bit better in film because you can record at the rate you like and go from there.
Same applies to 3d animation as you can control the frame rates how you like.
In games however you can increase the fps much more easily because by increasing the power of your pc you can increase how quickly the screen refreshes. (obviously hardware is important here but you get what I mean) And your eye can discern subtle differences that equate to an overall smoother performance.
So while industry standard is certainly one aspect (and I would agree it's the main one holding us back in terms of traditional film) in terms of 2d animation there is a much larger effect in trying to scale up to that level of detail.
There are also some arguments about 24fps being the most comfortable viewing rate for film and such but I think those are typically more subjective arguments.
Also I get that this is a minor gripe and I don't think you are insulting the game or anything like that, I just think it's a neat opportunity to share how animation is done and part of why it uses the frame rate it does.
I should note that while animation is played at 29 or 30 fps typically there are actually only 15 actual drawings in the span of a second as each drawing is held for 2 frames, this is not a constant though as you can play with how long or short you hold a frame to help smooth out the animation or to emphasize certain aspects of it.
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I think the game has stopped fucking around.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Yeah, I understand how this thing goes.
I'm Brazilian, so every single song from the USA and UK were complete gibberish to me until I was like 12 (and studying english for a couple of years). All movies from Hollywood are either dubbed (on TV) or subbed (on the theater). Therefore I'm perfectly aware of the whole issue.
I also spent two years as team leader and translator on several large game localization projects, which included VA. One of those projects was chosen the best game localization 2012 in Brazil, running against Halo, Uncharted, LOL and Assassin's Creed. Two or three actors with 30+ years of VA work (in movies and TV) each happened to tell me how VA is very different from other kinds of acting. I had the pleasure of meting Richard Honeywood, the guy from Square Enix responsible for DQ8. He's Australian, but was raised in Japan, so he has an amazing knowledge of both English and Japanese (He was at Nintendo Japan before Square, for instance). He told me an amazing anecdote about Yangus VA.
My point is that I have some passing knowledge of this particular subject. But saying that an English VA is shit because the Japanese version is not comprehensible, therefore being better, is not something that makes much sense to me. Saying "I like the Japanese version better" is different from saying "the English version is shit".
But this is not the "GAMING VA" thread, so I'll go back to grumbling about how I'll probably won't be getting my Wizard Edition because Digital River sucks.
Too right, clearly this is the "Gaming vs Film/Animation industries" thread.
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I'm pretty sure it's the "now I want to hear the amazing anecdote about Yangus' VA come on Stormwatcher don't leave me hanging" thread.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
When it comes to anime I typically prefer spoken Japanese with English subs simply because the written translation usually stays truer to the original Japanese script (and they don't have to truncate or fill words due to lip-sync issues). However in Ni No Kuni the English subtitles appear to be a transcript of the spoken English track and not a translation of the original Japanese, which I was a little disappointed to discover. That being, said, the English voice actors seem to do a pretty good job (at least from the couple hours that I listened to in English).
I'm not saying English dub is better or worse than Japanese + English subs; I just wanted to point out that in this case the content of the English subs = the content of the English dub.
According to Richard, it turns out the actor was actually some sort of real life Yangus . On top of being a big, beefy, tough guy boxer with a soft side, he did speak with that exact accent, and he grew up in this very violent criminal London underworld, and almost became a gangster, but managed to find another way out. So, when the actor was told about Yangus, he got all teareyed and immediately agreed to fly all the way to Japan to do the character, because Yangus was really close to his heart. It was like playing himself (or 'imself) in a videogame.
I mean, when Richard told us, it was actually quite heartwarming. I don't think I did the story justice. Damn you charming Aussie accent tempered with Japanese politeness!
He was making a "this side is great too!" not a "that side is shit" statement.
Downgrade yourself to cloudy with a chance of meatballs and lets get on with life.
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Just got my copy in the mail past lunchtime. I'll start playing it tonight or tomorrow.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
You do know if you don't start tonight i'll just end up torturing you with more tidbits when I play it
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And I wish we had a localization thread I love this subject.
It's the dilemma of play this or watch more One Piece when I'm in the middle of a great arc. It makes it a hard decision.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Wow, relax.
Exactly. I do not know the colloquial understanding of modern Japanese (in regards to the English language), but it's highly unlikely the Japanese VA is reflective of the English script in terms of the conversational details.
That said both are serviceable, even if one is valued above the other simply because you can't tell if its garbage or not (that's certainly a new one).
As for the pacing of the game in regards to FF13 - wow. In what reality? 30+ hours of that game and all of a sudden it tosses you into the REAL game, and you actually get full control of all party members/side quests/etc. Not even close. No you don't get access to all the gameplay mechanics at once, but what kind of narrative does that serve? What you do get in the first 4 or 5 hours (minus the 1st hour of story) is less extended story more "Let's build this up with each block of gameplay getting more and more badassified".
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I started last night in Japanese. I will try the English dub but unless it's amazing, I doubt I will bother. I didn't even try the Emglish dub in Zero Escape until I was something like 30 hours in and then I immediately switched back.
I don't know if that makes me a weeaboo or whatever but I generally detest English dubs if I have a choice (which I admittedly don't always have).
Subs aren't perfect; I know that. I don't expect them to transliterated. However, I prefer to interpret a work through a combination of the inflection of the original VA coupled with whatever the localized subs recommend as the meaning of whatever is being said.
At the end of the day, dialogue is there to support what is going on in the game - they compliment the actions characters take and describe events as they occur. It doesn't need to be perfect - and neither a dub not subs will be - to figure out what the designers meant in a given scene.
Also I personally find it incongruous when a game is culturally set in a particular locale and the voices are all in English. It's not a huge deal but if Persona 3 and Persona 4 were available to play in English text with Japanese VA, I would have absolutely chosen Japanese.
That said, if a dub is good I don't mind using it. But clearly they included both as an option because some people want to play using Japanese speech. I generally hate dubs in anime do I tend to gravitate to Japanese + English subs in games whenever available.
You're free and clear to prefer the original and not like it. That's your right as somebody with free will. Just so long as nobody goes "It's horrible and shit and you should all feel bad for listening to it".
Tidy?
I'm waiting until I get my gold familiar from the guide tomorrow before playing in earnest anyway.
Also, the MC looks like the kid from Professor Layton and the Curious Village.
"...only mights and maybes."
Exactly. You're free to listen to whatever you feel like, but don't go bashing the other for no reason. You might prefer to play games in Japanese but that doesn't mean that Ni no Kuni's English dub is bad.
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Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
"Well, I would Oliver, but I shat out all my MP on worthless attack spells in the first five seconds of combat! Tee-hee!"
3DS: 1607-3034-6970