[quote="DaemonSadi;26345487"][quote="ironzerg;26344855"]PvP servers are great if you can keep up with the first "wave" and don't plan to level an alt.
Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.[/quote]
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.[/quote]
I've leveled toons on PvP servers in WoW, Rift and SW:ToR. I there from day 1 on Dark Iron, back in the PA vs Ctrl-Alt-Dlt haydays. I wish I would've saved my screenshot of my toon finishing skull (Scott Kurtz) off with an exectution during one of the many skirmishes, but those digital bits were lost to a machine generations ago. But even then on Dark Iron, it was the PvE Raiding that sustained the PA community, NOT PvP.
I am no stranger to PvP servers. I also harbour no illusions as to what actually goes on there. They are grim, dark places for grim, dark people.
Anyway, best bet is probably roll on a PvE server. Finding ways to get your PvP fix is a lot easier to do, and more preferable than having PvE-focused people get frustrated and quit on a PvP server
EDIT HAS BORK MY POST NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ON = (
Yet at the same time PVP servers threw a fit when Blizz temporarily allowed PVE->PVP server transfers. Open world PVP is apparently so amazing you shouldn't be allowed to skip the leveling portion of it.
That's the playerbase throwing a hissy-fit about something stupid. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here?
If the playerbase itself doesn't consider pre-cap PVP to be fun enough to be its own reward then claims of "it's not so bad!" just make me think that person has a much higher tolerance for bullshit than me. Which is not meant as an insult, just the reason why I'm skeptical it applies to me.
The complaints about people switching from PvE to PvP are because those people don't think people should be able to level without the added challange (which there is an added challange) of being on the PvP server. I'm not sure how this conveys anything about the experience not being rewarding.
I didn't say rewarding, I wasn't talking about challenge, I said fun. If open world PVP were fun enough on its own merit then people wouldn't want to skip leveling it, nor would people need to stop others from doing so (which they did). You don't protest someone getting a lesser experience than you got, not unless you're a philanthropist.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Yet at the same time PVP servers threw a fit when Blizz temporarily allowed PVE->PVP server transfers. Open world PVP is apparently so amazing you shouldn't be allowed to skip the leveling portion of it.
That's the playerbase throwing a hissy-fit about something stupid. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here?
If the playerbase itself doesn't consider pre-cap PVP to be fun enough to be its own reward then claims of "it's not so bad!" just make me think that person has a much higher tolerance for bullshit than me. Which is not meant as an insult, just the reason why I'm skeptical it applies to me.
The complaints about people switching from PvE to PvP are because those people don't think people should be able to level without the added challange (which there is an added challange) of being on the PvP server. I'm not sure how this conveys anything about the experience not being rewarding.
I didn't say rewarding, I wasn't talking about challenge, I said fun. If open world PVP were fun enough on its own merit then people wouldn't want to skip leveling it, nor would people need to stop others from doing so (which they did). You don't protest someone getting a lesser experience than you got, not unless you're a philanthropist.
You don't seem to get how the internet works. People complain whenever they feel someone else might get something easier than they got it. That's all it is. That has NOTHING to do with fun.
Signed up and hoping this turns out great. Throwing my hat in with the PVE crowd. Seriously, I can get my friend to play on the same server as me as long as its PVE.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Huh... that sounds hella fun. And if it's not locked behind crafting that sounds like precisely the kind of customization that I like.
PvP servers are great if you can keep up with the first "wave" and don't plan to level an alt.
Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.
All it takes is one time when the wife and I are looking to do some PvE questing for a couple of hours and someone decides to gank us, kill quest-givers, or otherwise generally harrass us to make it not worth doing. Full PvP gives anonymous people on the internet to ability to dictate how you're going to play, and that quite often turns out exactly how you would expect.
PvP servers are great if you can keep up with the first "wave" and don't plan to level an alt.
Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.
All it takes is one time when the wife and I are looking to do some PvE questing for a couple of hours and someone decides to gank us, kill quest-givers, or otherwise generally harrass us to make it not worth doing. Full PvP gives anonymous people on the internet to ability to dictate how you're going to play, and that quite often turns out exactly how you would expect.
Aye, if getting ganked can ruin your night than it's not the environment for you. That's why there's an option. I get that. I was just saying that people make PvP servers sound so much more awful then they are. Like I can probably count the number of times where I got camped in a truly frustrating manner on one hand. And that is across many many characters. The awesome PvP server only happeneings that I experienced were much greater in number. Ergo, for me, it's a very easy decision and one that I wouldn't ever change.
Why don't we just wait until after we've had a Beta around for awhile and more people are active in the thread to take a vote on PvP or PvE. Arguing about it now is premature.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Why don't we just wait until after we've had a Beta around for awhile and more people are active in the thread to take a vote on PvP or PvE. Arguing about it now is premature.
I didn't know anyone was arguing the decision.
I'm pretty sure it's a clear decision that the 'main' PA guild will be PvE.
PvP servers are great if you can keep up with the first "wave" and don't plan to level an alt.
Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.
All it takes is one time when the wife and I are looking to do some PvE questing for a couple of hours and someone decides to gank us, kill quest-givers, or otherwise generally harrass us to make it not worth doing. Full PvP gives anonymous people on the internet to ability to dictate how you're going to play, and that quite often turns out exactly how you would expect.
Aye, if getting ganked can ruin your night than it's not the environment for you. That's why there's an option. I get that. I was just saying that people make PvP servers sound so much more awful then they are. Like I can probably count the number of times where I got camped in a truly frustrating manner on one hand. And that is across many many characters. The awesome PvP server only happeneings that I experienced were much greater in number. Ergo, for me, it's a very easy decision and one that I wouldn't ever change.
To be clear, I'm a huge fan of world PvP. I just want it to be on MY terms, not some random goose's. I'm looking forward to checking out the Defiance version (Shadow War...world PvP in a separate phase) as that sounds like a great solution to my complaints.
PvP servers are great if you can keep up with the first "wave" and don't plan to level an alt.
Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.
All it takes is one time when the wife and I are looking to do some PvE questing for a couple of hours and someone decides to gank us, kill quest-givers, or otherwise generally harrass us to make it not worth doing. Full PvP gives anonymous people on the internet to ability to dictate how you're going to play, and that quite often turns out exactly how you would expect.
Aye, if getting ganked can ruin your night than it's not the environment for you. That's why there's an option. I get that. I was just saying that people make PvP servers sound so much more awful then they are. Like I can probably count the number of times where I got camped in a truly frustrating manner on one hand. And that is across many many characters. The awesome PvP server only happeneings that I experienced were much greater in number. Ergo, for me, it's a very easy decision and one that I wouldn't ever change.
To be clear, I'm a huge fan of world PvP. I just want it to be on MY terms, not some random goose's. I'm looking forward to checking out the Defiance version (Shadow War...world PvP in a separate phase) as that sounds like a great solution to my complaints.
Oh I totally get it!
And I understand the sentiment. For me the fun comes from always scanning the horizon for enemies and if you see an enemy that moment where you need to decide whether to stand your ground or try and make it to safety. Adds some thrill to the world!
Okay, so I asked my friend who works at Carbine if they're worried at all about folks abusing XP-gain from PvP kills in order to powerlevel characters. This was his response:
Man, I hate to give you the ol' no comment, but I'm honestly not sure what the PvP team's plans are for individual XP gain. The stuff I work with them on is more high level, like controlling how BGs and Warzones work. My *general understanding* though is that our goal is to let you be able to level up via whatever playstyle you prefer, but that true *leveling* XP in PvP is going to come from organized activities. If I had to guess--so this is just that, a guess--I'd say that individual XP values will be comparable to a solo elite mob and will be subject to diminishing returns like in vanilla WoW with honor points.
If they want a real answer though, and it's something they're actually concerned about, have them contact our community team. I can't guarantee that'll get a firm answer, but they might at least be able to speak from a position of authority on the matter and let them know it's on our radar.
MMG: What about a class’s skills & abilities? Are there different branches within each class that players can focus on? Similar to say a Talent Tree or Advanced Class that we have seen from other MMO’s.
MD : Again, I can’t get into a ton of detail here because we are pre-beta and things are changing a lot, but I can explain the thought process behind our Limited Action Sets.
We have a limited action set of abilities for each class. So, I’ll just pick a random number – let’s say every class gets 32 abilities over the life of their character. We had to design them and tier them so that everything is still worthwhile at the level cap. For example, the first ability you use at level 1 will still be available and worthwhile at the level cap. With the limited action set we allow players to pick and choose which abilities they want to use.
So out of ‘X’ number of abilities you can select the seven you want to use at that time. You can switch them out for different activities say PvP vs. Raiding and this allows players to not have to be constantly re-training. You will get access to more abilities than you can fit onto your toolbar. By level 10 you will already be having to make choices about which abilities you want to use to match your play style.
Why don't we just wait until after we've had a Beta around for awhile and more people are active in the thread to take a vote on PvP or PvE. Arguing about it now is premature.
This. All of us are excited about the game, but who knows who will still be around come release.
The goal is to make it very rare to have a 100% completely optimal item.
We'll see how that all works in practice...
I have become less and less enamored with the "throw complex systems at it" method of creating player choice. As it turns out, if you give players a million options, and 99.9% are bad, they will just go to Elitist Jerks (as the article said) and go with whatever somebody else has figured out is optimal. Maybe they'll spin this into something interesting, but I read it as "partially-customizable Diablo 3 loot", which means everybody is going to socket Mainstat + crit damage + crit chance + health, or whatever the generally accepted most-useful set of stats is.
Again, going with "what I would do", I'd eliminate all the stat inflation on items, and give everything basically one actual effect (think Bioshock Infinite, I guess). To cater to a gear treadmill maybe you could have a boring-ass "power number" that serves to make your Level 1 Shoes Of Running not as useful as your Level 60 Shoes Of Running.
When I'm feeling really cynical, I also stop to consider that maybe this sort of thing doesn't matter, and that systems that serve to be effective in the scope of the game are irrelevant compared to systems that serve to sound really good to entice players.
Maybe their system will work, though. I suppose one advantage is that it serves to even out the loot grind a bit, as you incrementally get little bits and pieces that are useful, rather than "okay I got my ten pieces of gear I'm done forever now". It also means that there is definitely going to be a "everybody gets something independent of all other players" (like Diablo 3), because rolling for loot will not work with a system like this: think Enchanters in WoW rolling Need on things to disenchant them, only now literally everybody is doing it, but only after spending a full minute reading through a thing's things to know whether they want them or not.
The goal is to make it very rare to have a 100% completely optimal item.
We'll see how that all works in practice...
I have become less and less enamored with the "throw complex systems at it" method of creating player choice. As it turns out, if you give players a million options, and 99.9% are bad, they will just go to Elitist Jerks (as the article said) and go with whatever somebody else has figured out is optimal. Maybe they'll spin this into something interesting, but I read it as "partially-customizable Diablo 3 loot", which means everybody is going to socket Mainstat + crit damage + crit chance + health, or whatever the generally accepted most-useful set of stats is.
Again, going with "what I would do", I'd eliminate all the stat inflation on items, and give everything basically one actual effect (think Bioshock Infinite, I guess). To cater to a gear treadmill maybe you could have a boring-ass "power number" that serves to make your Level 1 Shoes Of Running not as useful as your Level 60 Shoes Of Running.
When I'm feeling really cynical, I also stop to consider that maybe this sort of thing doesn't matter, and that systems that serve to be effective in the scope of the game are irrelevant compared to systems that serve to sound really good to entice players.
Maybe their system will work, though. I suppose one advantage is that it serves to even out the loot grind a bit, as you incrementally get little bits and pieces that are useful, rather than "okay I got my ten pieces of gear I'm done forever now". It also means that there is definitely going to be a "everybody gets something independent of all other players" (like Diablo 3), because rolling for loot will not work with a system like this: think Enchanters in WoW rolling Need on things to disenchant them, only now literally everybody is doing it, but only after spending a full minute reading through a thing's things to know whether they want them or not.
I have honestly never seened that happen, though I have seen a warlock roll need on a melee dps trinket on the grounds that it will make him "more balanced," so I guess it isn't impossible...
...fucking Billybrains...
Anyway, they could always make it so that circuits are class-specific so that not everyone is jumping on an item that only one person can use because of a circuit that's on it. That article already mentions the idea of some ciruits only works on certain pieces of gear, so it could be that tanking circuit on that heavy chestpiece can only be placed on other heavy chestpieces... That being said, I do love the whole "everyone gets thier own loot that noone else can ninja from" idea simply on principle, so I won't complain if that ends up as thier solution.
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
[quote]The goal is to make it very rare to have a 100% completely optimal item. [/quote]
We'll see how that all works in practice...[/quote]
I have become less and less enamored with the "throw complex systems at it" method of creating player choice. As it turns out, if you give players a million options, and 99.9% are bad, they will just go to Elitist Jerks (as the article said) and go with whatever somebody else has figured out is optimal. Maybe they'll spin this into something interesting, but I read it as "partially-customizable Diablo 3 loot", which means everybody is going to socket Mainstat + crit damage + crit chance + health, or whatever the generally accepted most-useful set of stats is.
Again, going with "what I would do", I'd eliminate all the stat inflation on items, and give everything basically one actual effect (think Bioshock Infinite, I guess). To cater to a gear treadmill maybe you could have a boring-ass "power number" that serves to make your Level 1 Shoes Of Running not as useful as your Level 60 Shoes Of Running.
When I'm feeling [i]really[/i] cynical, I also stop to consider that maybe this sort of thing doesn't matter, and that systems that serve to be effective in the scope of the game are irrelevant compared to systems that serve to [i]sound[/i] really good to entice players.
Maybe their system will work, though. I suppose one advantage is that it serves to even out the loot grind a bit, as you incrementally get little bits and pieces that are useful, rather than "okay I got my ten pieces of gear I'm done forever now". It also means that there is definitely going to be a "everybody gets something independent of all other players" (like Diablo 3), because rolling for loot will [i]not[/i] work with a system like this: think [b]Enchanters in WoW rolling Need on things to disenchant them[/b], only now literally everybody is doing it, but only after spending a full minute reading through a thing's things to know whether they want them or not.[/quote]
I have honestly never seened that happen, though I have seen a warlock roll need on a melee dps trinket on the grounds that it will make him "more balanced," so I guess it isn't impossible...
[i]...fucking Billybrains...[/i]
[quote]
This happened to me so regularly that I just came to expect it, actually. Like, "Oh hey, that blue chestpiece would be perfect for warrior. Oh, the mage rolled need for it, must be a mista- THAT MOTHERFUCKER IS DISENCHANTING IT."
Back in vanilla WoW we had a rogue roll Need on the epic quest starting book for Warriors/Paladins in Dire Maul, and then immediately try and sell it to the people in the group who could use it. Basically turned me off of pick up groups for the rest of the time I played that game.
I really hate the way the need/greed/pass system works. It really discourages working with pubbie groups.
Someone needs to come up with a better system. Maybe one that weighs rolls based on a character's objective "need" for an item?
Taranis on
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited April 2013
I think in a group loot should be class locked in dungeon finder groups based on stats and item type. Open rolls should only happen if an item drops that no one can really use, like you don't have an esper in your group and a psyblade drops and probably even then only let it autoroll to hand it out randomly. Premade groups should be the only ones able to freely change loot rules.
I think in a group loot should be class locked in dungeon finder groups based on stats and item type. Open rolls should only happen if an item drops that no one can really use, like you don't have an esper in your group and a psyblade drops and probably even then only let it autoroll to hand it out randomly. Premade groups should be the only ones able to freely change loot rules.
I'd agree with this if not for the fact that I think that classes should make use of a variety of stats in order to make different builds and play styles viable.
If a class can't actually use an item? Sure. Don't let them roll on it. If they want an item for their alt, let them quest/raid with their alt.
The popular system allows for the worst kind of griefing.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
If someone wants something for their alt then yeah, quest or dungeon/raid on the alt. Or, assuming the particular item isn't bind on pickup, buy it off the AH. Assuming Carbine makes good on their promises to offer meaningful multiple paths of acquiring items most of this is moot anyway.
Most games have improved drastically on the NGP system. Typically, you can only roll NEED if you can USE the item (So that mage rolling on the epic leather? They can't use leather, so won't happen. Same with the Paladin quest book.). Where they need further improvement is on stats. Sure, classes typically have some variability in stats, but just because you can use that +INT or +Spell Power necklace as a Warrior doesn't mean it's going to benefit you. That's where they either need to have a smarter system or only put classes that can use that item that WOULD actually use that item. This also needs to be done in regards to rainfall armor classes like Warriors being able to use everything (Plate, Leather, Cloth). Just because you CAN use leather doesn't mean you SHOULD. (Not listening to you, DPS warriors from WoW)
Also, ALL systems that are bind on pickup or acquire should allow a 15-30 minute (or until the end of the instance perhaps) window in which the item can be traded to any other applicable (i.e. if it was a piece of PLATE, only traded from 1 warrior to another warrior, or something like that) in the event they roll NEED, won, but turns out they actually had better.
Pretty sure from what they said and what was in the demo it is unnecessary to discuss NGP, as they're going to be using GW2's "Everyone Gets Their Own Loot" system. At least as of now there are no loot boxes, they use loot-pinata+vacuum-key.
Xbox Live, Steam, PSN: Eclibull
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Is this game in beta yet? I'm jonesing for some Wildstar.
I have enough old WoW stories to write a book, and I want to have a game that lets you come across stuff that becomes more stories like what we have coming from people who played the older MMOs and vanilla WoW. I want to see if Wildstar has enough of the old magic and the new hotness to be that storyteller.
I just can't wait to make dick shaped buildings on our war plot.
It is Imperative!
It is the Grand Imperative so none shall question our awesome and overpowering masculinity! Our enemies shall gaze upon our works and cower beneath our incredibly manliness!
:P
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
im signed up. excitement is still there for a mmo... just has to be good.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited April 2013
So arenas and warplots are an *cough* Elder Game thing.
Battlegrounds and good old ganking are how you're going to have to get your pvp fix until max level.
The devs have stated they wanted some arena testing going on during this beta coming up so I'm guessing premades?
EDIT: They have plans to release this this year but I'm curious when and if they plan on trying to cut in during Final Fantasy XIV 2.0's launch. Hell I'm willing to wait a couple months past that if it means more polish.
Its weird, I am so enamored with this game everything else I try playing just feels meh. All from a couple of videos. I think its really bringing back WOW nostalgia for me
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
Yeah I'm getting the right kind of nostalgia. If they don't blow this it will be glorious.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I think the biggest thing with me is, I love mmorpgs. In a way, even ones that don't turn out so great. My biggest desire with the genre is to get in on the ground floor of something that'll end up having that kind of longevity WoW had to have the opportunity to grow those kinds of experiences everyone talks about. WoW was the only one that ever did that. Some came MIGHTY damn close but it seemed like the communities shook apart one or two months in. I think six months, in if even half of us are still with this game I think I will consider that a Good Thing.
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Otherwise, for the slower levelers and alts, it's all ganking and corpse-camping.
Let's not put on the open world PvP rose colored glasses. It's all fun and games for the first 30-60 days, but then when the sheep start to get frustrated and transfer, it leaves only a world of wolves who slowly eat their own packs until there's nothing left.[/quote]
I hear the stories but I've never actually seen it. Sure ganking happens but in WoW it was never some endless campathon of noobs. Wehn higher levels start hunting in lower level zones the countergankers become aware and they begin their hunt. I love that aspect. And this is totally not only in the beginning. Hell I played on a carebear server for my first year of WoW before I learned the greatness of PvP servers. Seriously people make it soound WAY worse than it is. It's not for everyone but it's really not some awful unplayable wasteland from ganks.[/quote]
I've leveled toons on PvP servers in WoW, Rift and SW:ToR. I there from day 1 on Dark Iron, back in the PA vs Ctrl-Alt-Dlt haydays. I wish I would've saved my screenshot of my toon finishing skull (Scott Kurtz) off with an exectution during one of the many skirmishes, but those digital bits were lost to a machine generations ago. But even then on Dark Iron, it was the PvE Raiding that sustained the PA community, NOT PvP.
I am no stranger to PvP servers. I also harbour no illusions as to what actually goes on there. They are grim, dark places for grim, dark people.
Anyway, best bet is probably roll on a PvE server. Finding ways to get your PvP fix is a lot easier to do, and more preferable than having PvE-focused people get frustrated and quit on a PvP server
EDIT HAS BORK MY POST NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ON = (
You don't seem to get how the internet works. People complain whenever they feel someone else might get something easier than they got it. That's all it is. That has NOTHING to do with fun.
We'll see how that all works in practice...
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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All it takes is one time when the wife and I are looking to do some PvE questing for a couple of hours and someone decides to gank us, kill quest-givers, or otherwise generally harrass us to make it not worth doing. Full PvP gives anonymous people on the internet to ability to dictate how you're going to play, and that quite often turns out exactly how you would expect.
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Guild Wars 2: Kendrik.5984
Aye, if getting ganked can ruin your night than it's not the environment for you. That's why there's an option. I get that. I was just saying that people make PvP servers sound so much more awful then they are. Like I can probably count the number of times where I got camped in a truly frustrating manner on one hand. And that is across many many characters. The awesome PvP server only happeneings that I experienced were much greater in number. Ergo, for me, it's a very easy decision and one that I wouldn't ever change.
I didn't know anyone was arguing the decision.
I'm pretty sure it's a clear decision that the 'main' PA guild will be PvE.
But there will be those of us that go elsewhere.
To be clear, I'm a huge fan of world PvP. I just want it to be on MY terms, not some random goose's. I'm looking forward to checking out the Defiance version (Shadow War...world PvP in a separate phase) as that sounds like a great solution to my complaints.
For your own Steam Signature visit https://alabasterslim.com/steam-signatures/
Guild Wars 2: Kendrik.5984
Oh I totally get it!
And I understand the sentiment. For me the fun comes from always scanning the horizon for enemies and if you see an enemy that moment where you need to decide whether to stand your ground or try and make it to safety. Adds some thrill to the world!
Interview with Mike Donatelli
MMG: What about a class’s skills & abilities? Are there different branches within each class that players can focus on? Similar to say a Talent Tree or Advanced Class that we have seen from other MMO’s.
MD : Again, I can’t get into a ton of detail here because we are pre-beta and things are changing a lot, but I can explain the thought process behind our Limited Action Sets.
We have a limited action set of abilities for each class. So, I’ll just pick a random number – let’s say every class gets 32 abilities over the life of their character. We had to design them and tier them so that everything is still worthwhile at the level cap. For example, the first ability you use at level 1 will still be available and worthwhile at the level cap. With the limited action set we allow players to pick and choose which abilities they want to use.
So out of ‘X’ number of abilities you can select the seven you want to use at that time. You can switch them out for different activities say PvP vs. Raiding and this allows players to not have to be constantly re-training. You will get access to more abilities than you can fit onto your toolbar. By level 10 you will already be having to make choices about which abilities you want to use to match your play style.
"...only mights and maybes."
This. All of us are excited about the game, but who knows who will still be around come release.
I have become less and less enamored with the "throw complex systems at it" method of creating player choice. As it turns out, if you give players a million options, and 99.9% are bad, they will just go to Elitist Jerks (as the article said) and go with whatever somebody else has figured out is optimal. Maybe they'll spin this into something interesting, but I read it as "partially-customizable Diablo 3 loot", which means everybody is going to socket Mainstat + crit damage + crit chance + health, or whatever the generally accepted most-useful set of stats is.
Again, going with "what I would do", I'd eliminate all the stat inflation on items, and give everything basically one actual effect (think Bioshock Infinite, I guess). To cater to a gear treadmill maybe you could have a boring-ass "power number" that serves to make your Level 1 Shoes Of Running not as useful as your Level 60 Shoes Of Running.
When I'm feeling really cynical, I also stop to consider that maybe this sort of thing doesn't matter, and that systems that serve to be effective in the scope of the game are irrelevant compared to systems that serve to sound really good to entice players.
Maybe their system will work, though. I suppose one advantage is that it serves to even out the loot grind a bit, as you incrementally get little bits and pieces that are useful, rather than "okay I got my ten pieces of gear I'm done forever now". It also means that there is definitely going to be a "everybody gets something independent of all other players" (like Diablo 3), because rolling for loot will not work with a system like this: think Enchanters in WoW rolling Need on things to disenchant them, only now literally everybody is doing it, but only after spending a full minute reading through a thing's things to know whether they want them or not.
I have honestly never seened that happen, though I have seen a warlock roll need on a melee dps trinket on the grounds that it will make him "more balanced," so I guess it isn't impossible...
...fucking Billybrains...
Anyway, they could always make it so that circuits are class-specific so that not everyone is jumping on an item that only one person can use because of a circuit that's on it. That article already mentions the idea of some ciruits only works on certain pieces of gear, so it could be that tanking circuit on that heavy chestpiece can only be placed on other heavy chestpieces... That being said, I do love the whole "everyone gets thier own loot that noone else can ninja from" idea simply on principle, so I won't complain if that ends up as thier solution.
[quote]The goal is to make it very rare to have a 100% completely optimal item. [/quote]
We'll see how that all works in practice...[/quote]
I have become less and less enamored with the "throw complex systems at it" method of creating player choice. As it turns out, if you give players a million options, and 99.9% are bad, they will just go to Elitist Jerks (as the article said) and go with whatever somebody else has figured out is optimal. Maybe they'll spin this into something interesting, but I read it as "partially-customizable Diablo 3 loot", which means everybody is going to socket Mainstat + crit damage + crit chance + health, or whatever the generally accepted most-useful set of stats is.
Again, going with "what I would do", I'd eliminate all the stat inflation on items, and give everything basically one actual effect (think Bioshock Infinite, I guess). To cater to a gear treadmill maybe you could have a boring-ass "power number" that serves to make your Level 1 Shoes Of Running not as useful as your Level 60 Shoes Of Running.
When I'm feeling [i]really[/i] cynical, I also stop to consider that maybe this sort of thing doesn't matter, and that systems that serve to be effective in the scope of the game are irrelevant compared to systems that serve to [i]sound[/i] really good to entice players.
Maybe their system will work, though. I suppose one advantage is that it serves to even out the loot grind a bit, as you incrementally get little bits and pieces that are useful, rather than "okay I got my ten pieces of gear I'm done forever now". It also means that there is definitely going to be a "everybody gets something independent of all other players" (like Diablo 3), because rolling for loot will [i]not[/i] work with a system like this: think [b]Enchanters in WoW rolling Need on things to disenchant them[/b], only now literally everybody is doing it, but only after spending a full minute reading through a thing's things to know whether they want them or not.[/quote]
I have honestly never seened that happen, though I have seen a warlock roll need on a melee dps trinket on the grounds that it will make him "more balanced," so I guess it isn't impossible...
[i]...fucking Billybrains...[/i]
[quote]
This happened to me so regularly that I just came to expect it, actually. Like, "Oh hey, that blue chestpiece would be perfect for warrior. Oh, the mage rolled need for it, must be a mista- THAT MOTHERFUCKER IS DISENCHANTING IT."
Someone needs to come up with a better system. Maybe one that weighs rolls based on a character's objective "need" for an item?
"...only mights and maybes."
I'd agree with this if not for the fact that I think that classes should make use of a variety of stats in order to make different builds and play styles viable.
If a class can't actually use an item? Sure. Don't let them roll on it. If they want an item for their alt, let them quest/raid with their alt.
The popular system allows for the worst kind of griefing.
"...only mights and maybes."
Also, ALL systems that are bind on pickup or acquire should allow a 15-30 minute (or until the end of the instance perhaps) window in which the item can be traded to any other applicable (i.e. if it was a piece of PLATE, only traded from 1 warrior to another warrior, or something like that) in the event they roll NEED, won, but turns out they actually had better.
I have enough old WoW stories to write a book, and I want to have a game that lets you come across stuff that becomes more stories like what we have coming from people who played the older MMOs and vanilla WoW. I want to see if Wildstar has enough of the old magic and the new hotness to be that storyteller.
It is Imperative!
It is the Grand Imperative so none shall question our awesome and overpowering masculinity! Our enemies shall gaze upon our works and cower beneath our incredibly manliness!
:P
I think our chances are looking up.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Guess I should contact Tube to change my name to "Chop Liver"!
Battlegrounds and good old ganking are how you're going to have to get your pvp fix until max level.
The devs have stated they wanted some arena testing going on during this beta coming up so I'm guessing premades?
EDIT: They have plans to release this this year but I'm curious when and if they plan on trying to cut in during Final Fantasy XIV 2.0's launch. Hell I'm willing to wait a couple months past that if it means more polish.
"...only mights and maybes."
"...only mights and maybes."
"...only mights and maybes."