Considering they have an obvious partnership with Plaid Hat games do you think we can beg them into giving us Infinite themed Summoner War sets? I mean, that'd be awesome.
*edit
It could be neat to see a 1950s 'USSR'-ish Bioshock in space with communism being the natural the ideological extreme to base it around. Lots of great propaganda opportunities.
With the lighthouses leading to impossible cities being the unifying theme between Bioshocks 1+2 and Infinite, space is certainly a practical option. Making it look different at the beginning than the ascension into Columbia would be important though, given you ride into Infinite on a rocketpod. The location of Rapture off the coast of Greenland rather than Maine, somewhere in the North Atlantic seems to be the only real "requirement", also makes the location of an access tower more plausible than the location of Columbia's lighthouse off the coast of Maine.
Since personal empowerment of some at the expense of others is kind of a running thing in Bioshock, you could also avoid it just being a critique of pure collectivism - which turns into "fight the creepy alien hivemind" in videogames - by doing the whole New Soviet Man, cosmicism thing.
I think the game is fantastic, but the bleakness of the ending is sapping my opinion of it. Nothing got accomplished! The characters don't obtain their (entirely reasonable) goals. Elizabeth deserved to see the world, Booker deserved to move on. They're just stuck, mired in the past. You can't wash away your history with either baptism or quantum physics. They learned nothing.
This is why I think the game is cool and worth a play, but the story is just bad. Everything that happens is just pointless.
On the "didn't learn anything" note, it seemed to me anyway that the ending was something they hadn't done before, it was a new trick. The infinite loop of not learning anything was Bookers from all realities where he sold Elizabeth going into all realities where he became Comstock and always failing to save her. Ending that endless cycle by changing the point at which all Comstock/Columbia Booker timelines start, the Baptism, to end in Booker's death seems like, the way they were talking in that scene, it would have completely severed that branch from the tree as it were.
But yeah it can definitely be depressing to find that the only thing that separates your experience as Booker from all of the failures the Luteces witnessed was death and the probable erasure of Elizabeth, the Anna who spent her formative years in the tower and became such a charming character.
On the subject of potentially missing the point...
How does releasing a strategy board game, of your own video game, miss a point?
"Fight for Control of Columbia", when the game's ending
ensures Columbia will never exist.
:rotate:
Though I'm a board game junkie and will play anything that's fun.
Just think of it as a reality where everyone is a board game piece.
Viskod on
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Vicious_GSRDudePrincipality of ZeonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
In response to Catsoup.
In speaking strictly from a script writing point of view, it was an overly complex way of having the character wake up from a dream. I don't find that interesting or smart and certainly do not appreciate stories that take that route. I want characters to learn from their actions and live with the choices and get a result that changes things beyond rolling back to prior events. Booker will be a drunk gambler forever and Anna is in worse hands than ever, having a father that would openly sell her for a price. Tis a fine game but holds a bad story.
*edit
It could be neat to see a 1950s 'USSR'-ish Bioshock in space with communism being the natural the ideological extreme to base it around. Lots of great propaganda opportunities.
With the lighthouses leading to impossible cities being the unifying theme between Bioshocks 1+2 and Infinite, space is certainly a practical option. Making it look different at the beginning than the ascension into Columbia would be important though, given you ride into Infinite on a rocketpod. The location of Rapture off the coast of Greenland rather than Maine, somewhere in the North Atlantic seems to be the only real "requirement", also makes the location of an access tower more plausible than the location of Columbia's lighthouse off the coast of Maine.
Since personal empowerment of some at the expense of others is kind of a running thing in Bioshock, you could also avoid it just being a critique of pure collectivism - which turns into "fight the creepy alien hivemind" in videogames - by doing the whole New Soviet Man, cosmicism thing.
I think the game is fantastic, but the bleakness of the ending is sapping my opinion of it. Nothing got accomplished! The characters don't obtain their (entirely reasonable) goals. Elizabeth deserved to see the world, Booker deserved to move on. They're just stuck, mired in the past. You can't wash away your history with either baptism or quantum physics. They learned nothing.
This is why I think the game is cool and worth a play, but the story is just bad. Everything that happens is just pointless.
On the "didn't learn anything" note, it seemed to me anyway that the ending was something they hadn't done before, it was a new trick. The infinite loop of not learning anything was Bookers from all realities where he sold Elizabeth going into all realities where he became Comstock and always failing to save her. Ending that endless cycle by changing the point at which all Comstock/Columbia Booker timelines start, the Baptism, to end in Booker's death seems like, the way they were talking in that scene, it would have completely severed that branch from the tree as it were.
But yeah it can definitely be depressing to find that the only thing that separates your experience as Booker from all of the failures the Luteces witnessed was death and the probable erasure of Elizabeth, the Anna who spent her formative years in the tower and became such a charming character.
The space option would be great but I feel it would need to tie into the previous games far more as a conclusion. I would love to see a US based space city on the moon designed for the greatest minds of our time with a hidden agenda but also discover early on that the USSR has its own space city on the moon.
In speaking strictly from a script writing point of view, it was an overly complex way of having the character wake up from a dream. I don't find that interesting or smart and certainly do not appreciate stories that take that route. I want characters to learn from their actions and live with the choices and get a result that changes things beyond rolling back to prior events. Booker will be a drunk gambler forever and Anna is in worse hands than ever, having a father that would openly sell her for a price. Tis a fine game but holds a bad story.
Having a depressing ending doesn't mean it was pointless, though. And where you saw a negative ending, I saw a positive one; there's hope. Booker has a chance to do it right this time, and everything in the game supports the idea that, at least in some ways, he remembers the events of the game; it's painful, and I'm sure his mind is going to muddle things to reconcile the new reality, but on some level he will still understand.
In speaking strictly from a script writing point of view, it was an overly complex way of having the character wake up from a dream. I don't find that interesting or smart and certainly do not appreciate stories that take that route. I want characters to learn from their actions and live with the choices and get a result that changes things beyond rolling back to prior events. Booker will be a drunk gambler forever and Anna is in worse hands than ever, having a father that would openly sell her for a price. Tis a fine game but holds a bad story.
Having a depressing ending doesn't mean it was pointless, though. And where you saw a negative ending, I saw a positive one; there's hope. Booker has a chance to do it right this time, and everything in the game supports the idea that, at least in some ways, he remembers the events of the game; it's painful, and I'm sure his mind is going to muddle things to reconcile the new reality, but on some level he will still understand.
And the game makes every effort to enforce this idea by showing you...
characters remembering things that their alternate realities experienced. Soldiers remembered dying, Booker remembered flashes of things, Chen remembered working on his machines. It seems plain to me that Booker at the end of the credits has some recollection of what "he" went through. When he hears the crying, he responds "Anna, is that you?" In disbelief. He clearly remembers NOT having Anna, at the very least, as he is surprised to hear her cries.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
In speaking strictly from a script writing point of view, it was an overly complex way of having the character wake up from a dream. I don't find that interesting or smart and certainly do not appreciate stories that take that route. I want characters to learn from their actions and live with the choices and get a result that changes things beyond rolling back to prior events. Booker will be a drunk gambler forever and Anna is in worse hands than ever, having a father that would openly sell her for a price. Tis a fine game but holds a bad story.
Having a depressing ending doesn't mean it was pointless, though. And where you saw a negative ending, I saw a positive one; there's hope. Booker has a chance to do it right this time, and everything in the game supports the idea that, at least in some ways, he remembers the events of the game; it's painful, and I'm sure his mind is going to muddle things to reconcile the new reality, but on some level he will still understand.
And the game makes every effort to enforce this idea by showing you...
characters remembering things that their alternate realities experienced. Soldiers remembered dying, Booker remembered flashes of things, Chen remembered working on his machines. It seems plain to me that Booker at the end of the credits has some recollection of what "he" went through. When he hears the crying, he responds "Anna, is that you?" In disbelief. He clearly remembers NOT having Anna, at the very least, as he is surprised to hear her cries.
While I agree with almost everything about your interpretation, one minor caveat:
You don't hear Anna crying. You only hear the sound of her baby mobile, which in turn means she might NOT be there. Schrodinger's Anna.
Which also in turn means that the ending is up to interpretation on some level. While I think if you pay a modicum of attention the game points you in the positive direction of "Your choices mattered, you remember what happened even if only as a dreamlike existence, the Lucetes are still out there trolling the shit out of everyone," they do leave it open to the negative interpretation that's been propagating through this thread.
However, another point to everyone saying that Elizabeth ceased to exist: the Lucetes were also exposed to radiation from the device and to inter-dimensional shenanigans with much less spectacular results than Elizabeth, but it's implied that despite being killed (in multiple universes!) (probably EVERY universe where Comstock exists, honestly, given what they know), they still exist in a state outside both space and time. Elizabeth has probably become much the same due to the portal cut on her finger; she exists in a state outside space and time.
Which to me is honestly much sadder than her quantum state collapsing into the newborn Anna or her ceasing to exist. She'd be an immortal Dr. Manhattan type God, and while it means that her actions matter and are fully stable and she can keep all Comstock timelines collapsed, what a sad, lonely existence, with only a pair of ginger science creepers for company. And at this point, she's probably not even capable of suicide, since even if it were possible to do so, it would allow a Booker/Comstock cycle to start over again, if we're going with this interpretation.
I read on average about 10% of the posts in this thread.
I should really just re-start it on normal and breeze through it so I can join in and stop clicking on spoilers only to go 'holy shit this seems important'. I'm too weak willed
My interpretation of the ending, which I think neatly handles the post-credit scene and the argument that "the game was pointless and nothing happened":
Constants and variables.
At the start of the game, it is a variable that the baptism is either accepted and Booker becomes Comstock, or denied and he becomes a drunk gambler who sells his daughter.
The entire game is Booker being shown the consequences, across all the realities, of his choice.
At the ending, with the siphon destroyed, Elizabeth is now a trans-dimensional being that is immune to the effects of timeline changes, thanks to your actions during the game. She makes the decision to remove the variable. Most people are reading this as killing Booker before he has a chance to become Comstock, but I think that's wrong. Yea, you black out during the baptism, but you also black out during the baptism upon arriving at Columbia. That was Chekhov's gun. She drowns Booker until he passes out, then deposits him back in time with his memories of his potential choice intact.
The variable of the baptism has now become a constant where he accepts the baptism(at least in the terms of becoming a new man), but doesn't become a crazed cult leader and doesn't sell his daughter. This also explains how he wakes up in the post credit scene, with his daughter that was born years after the baptism, which is hard to do if you've just been murdered in all realities.
I'm sure I missed some details or misunderstood the timelines or something, but I like this reading of it so I'm sticking to it unless I see something better.
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
Sarksus on
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
oh nonono, I don't mean that I want a cookie. By "incentive" I mean that I want it to have some kind of effect. For example, by being good in Bioshock 1 you get the super-warm fuzzy feeling at the end that the little sisters got to grow up and get married. If you were bad...well that didn't happen. I do good in games regardless of whether the game gives me any cookies for it or not, it's just the kind of person that I am. I want my "good" to have a more-than-immediate effect though. Maybe see commoners relax on their racism a little bit, maybe have minorities get better treatment, something. Doing good deeds for good deed's sake is great, but when you're throwing them into a void and it has absolutely zero impact...I mean I just wish it had more impact is what I'm saying.
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So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
I threw the baseball at the couple. I had to maintain my cover as an ordinary pilgrim or else be killed on the spot as an outed progressive.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
Agreed. That bit may not have had any effect on the ending of the game, but hey...
you did the right thing, they were grateful, and even told you they only got out alive because of what you did.
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
I also have a question about that Raffle spot.
when shit hits the fan, there's a cop that stands there without attacking you. He just kind of badmouths you a little bit. I can't imagine that it's an oversight or a glitch, and I was too frantic and accidentally shot him. Does anything happen if you let him survive?
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
oh nonono, I don't mean that I want a cookie. By "incentive" I mean that I want it to have some kind of effect. For example, by being good in Bioshock 1 you get the super-warm fuzzy feeling at the end that the little sisters got to grow up and get married. If you were bad...well that didn't happen. I do good in games regardless of whether the game gives me any cookies for it or not, it's just the kind of person that I am. I want my "good" to have a more-than-immediate effect though. Maybe see commoners relax on their racism a little bit, maybe have minorities get better treatment, something. Doing good deeds for good deed's sake is great, but when you're throwing them into a void and it has absolutely zero impact...I mean I just wish it had more impact is what I'm saying.
I thought it was enough of a reward but I see what you are saying.
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
How about you just do good or bad because you want to do those things and not get a cookie from a videogame. Being thanked was more than I expected after I decided not to throw it at the couple.
I threw the baseball at the couple. I had to maintain my cover as an ordinary pilgrim or else be killed on the spot as an outed progressive.
You were gonna have to start shooting sooner or later anyway. If I made the game harder for myself then so be it!
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
I love this post.
Two of the stronger running themes in this game are 1. how some choices offer no "good" outcomes, and 2. regret over choices made.
To see a player lamenting that they made a choice that had very little effect on the world and how it cultured in them a level of apathy and disinterest really cements for me just how great a job the Devs did at building an emotional bridge between Booker and the Player.
+3
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MordaRazgromМорда РазгромRuling the Taffer KingdomRegistered Userregular
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
I love this post.
Two of the stronger running themes in this game are 1. how some choices offer no "good" outcomes, and 2. regret over choices made.
To see a player lamenting that they made a choice that had very little effect on the world and how it cultured in them a level of apathy and disinterest really cements for me just how great a job the Devs did at building an emotional bridge between Booker and the Player.
For me, unfortunately, I see it as laziness. Here's my reason. There's a way for developers to go into a game and give you a feeling that no matter what you choose, you're going to have bad consequences and that, ultimately, you just can't affect change by yourself. Vampire Masquerade does that, Deus Ex, The Walking Dead series is good about it too. In this game, they just didn't bother to code anything into the game. It's basically the equivalent of an artist giving you a blank piece of paper and saying "You can look at it any which way you want! it's awesome how clever I am!"
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Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
I love this post.
Two of the stronger running themes in this game are 1. how some choices offer no "good" outcomes, and 2. regret over choices made.
To see a player lamenting that they made a choice that had very little effect on the world and how it cultured in them a level of apathy and disinterest really cements for me just how great a job the Devs did at building an emotional bridge between Booker and the Player.
For me, unfortunately, I see it as laziness. Here's my reason. There's a way for developers to go into a game and give you a feeling that no matter what you choose, you're going to have bad consequences and that, ultimately, you just can't affect change by yourself. Vampire Masquerade does that, Deus Ex, The Walking Dead series is good about it too. In this game, they just didn't bother to code anything into the game. It's basically the equivalent of an artist giving you a blank piece of paper and saying "You can look at it any which way you want! it's awesome how clever I am!"
I think you are really downplaying the consequence of that action.
Two people not being killed and thanking you while they embrace, implying that they will hopefully continue living together, and then giving you a piece of gear, is a pretty good reward.
So is there only one ending to this game? I think I read somewhere that the developers said that there aren't multiple endings.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
I didn't aim the baseball at Fink because I wanted pants, I aimed it at Fink because I'm very sensitive about racism. To have the only effect be pants really dampens my incentive to do anything "good" or "bad" in the game.
I love this post.
Two of the stronger running themes in this game are 1. how some choices offer no "good" outcomes, and 2. regret over choices made.
To see a player lamenting that they made a choice that had very little effect on the world and how it cultured in them a level of apathy and disinterest really cements for me just how great a job the Devs did at building an emotional bridge between Booker and the Player.
For me, unfortunately, I see it as laziness. Here's my reason. There's a way for developers to go into a game and give you a feeling that no matter what you choose, you're going to have bad consequences and that, ultimately, you just can't affect change by yourself. Vampire Masquerade does that, Deus Ex, The Walking Dead series is good about it too. In this game, they just didn't bother to code anything into the game. It's basically the equivalent of an artist giving you a blank piece of paper and saying "You can look at it any which way you want! it's awesome how clever I am!"
I think you are really downplaying the consequence of that action.
Two people not being killed and thanking you while they embrace, implying that they will hopefully continue living together, and then giving you a piece of gear, is a pretty good reward.
This is a bit of a different point, but it's both confusing and lame that nothing goes differently whether you pick one choice, the other, or inaction.
Sure, magically the couple either survives or it doesn't based on your decision, but that doesn't really make any sense given how the scene was implemented.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Hey guys, I need a favor. I need someone to find me a spoiler-related screenshot, and I need it for reference. I don't have the ability to load the game right now. Also it's in a section I have ZERO desire to replay.
Also: is there a list somewhere of ALL the anachronistic songs in the game?
This is a bit of a different point, but it's both confusing and lame that nothing goes differently whether you pick one choice, the other, or inaction.
Sure, magically the couple either survives or it doesn't based on your decision, but that doesn't really make any sense given how the scene was implemented.
Yeah...it does. They were going to lynch them. You distracted them that were going to lynch, with being the false prophet. Now, while you would also be found out if you were to throw it AT them, they probably noticed that you were about to chuck the ball at Fink.
M A G I K A Z A M
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PunkBoyThank you! And thank you again!Registered Userregular
edited April 2013
Here you go!
Ha, looks like FINK is at 78.95 on the stock market.
PunkBoy on
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This is a bit of a different point, but it's both confusing and lame that nothing goes differently whether you pick one choice, the other, or inaction.
Sure, magically the couple either survives or it doesn't based on your decision, but that doesn't really make any sense given how the scene was implemented.
Yeah...it does. They were going to lynch them. You distracted them that were going to lynch, with being the false prophet. Now, while you would also be found out if you were to throw it AT them, they probably noticed that you were about to chuck the ball at Fink.
Sorry, but you're just wrong.
Aside from what you shout before everything goes down, nothing different happens!
The game tells you later whether they died, but there's no factual difference for it to make more or less sense that they did or didn't die.
To be perfectly clear, in every case they grab you, shout at you, and then you kill them all.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
This is a bit of a different point, but it's both confusing and lame that nothing goes differently whether you pick one choice, the other, or inaction.
Sure, magically the couple either survives or it doesn't based on your decision, but that doesn't really make any sense given how the scene was implemented.
Yeah...it does. They were going to lynch them. You distracted them that were going to lynch, with being the false prophet. Now, while you would also be found out if you were to throw it AT them, they probably noticed that you were about to chuck the ball at Fink.
Sorry, but you're just wrong.
Aside from what you shout before everything goes down, nothing different happens!
The game tells you later whether they died, but there's no factual difference for it to make more or less sense that they did or didn't die.
To be perfectly clear, in every case they grab you, shout at you, and then you kill them all.
It's a Constant.
Pick 77, get in a fight. It always happened, happens, and will happen.
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On the subject of potentially missing the point...
How does releasing a strategy board game, of your own video game, miss a point?
"Fight for Control of Columbia", when the game's ending
:rotate:
Though I'm a board game junkie and will play anything that's fun.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
Since personal empowerment of some at the expense of others is kind of a running thing in Bioshock, you could also avoid it just being a critique of pure collectivism - which turns into "fight the creepy alien hivemind" in videogames - by doing the whole New Soviet Man, cosmicism thing.
But yeah it can definitely be depressing to find that the only thing that separates your experience as Booker from all of the failures the Luteces witnessed was death and the probable erasure of Elizabeth, the Anna who spent her formative years in the tower and became such a charming character.
The space option would be great but I feel it would need to tie into the previous games far more as a conclusion. I would love to see a US based space city on the moon designed for the greatest minds of our time with a hidden agenda but also discover early on that the USSR has its own space city on the moon.
Okay Mr. University. If you 'dumb' it down like that it all makes sense.
And the game makes every effort to enforce this idea by showing you...
While I agree with almost everything about your interpretation, one minor caveat:
Which also in turn means that the ending is up to interpretation on some level. While I think if you pay a modicum of attention the game points you in the positive direction of "Your choices mattered, you remember what happened even if only as a dreamlike existence, the Lucetes are still out there trolling the shit out of everyone," they do leave it open to the negative interpretation that's been propagating through this thread.
However, another point to everyone saying that Elizabeth ceased to exist: the Lucetes were also exposed to radiation from the device and to inter-dimensional shenanigans with much less spectacular results than Elizabeth, but it's implied that despite being killed (in multiple universes!) (probably EVERY universe where Comstock exists, honestly, given what they know), they still exist in a state outside both space and time. Elizabeth has probably become much the same due to the portal cut on her finger; she exists in a state outside space and time.
Which to me is honestly much sadder than her quantum state collapsing into the newborn Anna or her ceasing to exist. She'd be an immortal Dr. Manhattan type God, and while it means that her actions matter and are fully stable and she can keep all Comstock timelines collapsed, what a sad, lonely existence, with only a pair of ginger science creepers for company. And at this point, she's probably not even capable of suicide, since even if it were possible to do so, it would allow a Booker/Comstock cycle to start over again, if we're going with this interpretation.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I should really just re-start it on normal and breeze through it so I can join in and stop clicking on spoilers only to go 'holy shit this seems important'. I'm too weak willed
Constants and variables.
At the start of the game, it is a variable that the baptism is either accepted and Booker becomes Comstock, or denied and he becomes a drunk gambler who sells his daughter.
The entire game is Booker being shown the consequences, across all the realities, of his choice.
At the ending, with the siphon destroyed, Elizabeth is now a trans-dimensional being that is immune to the effects of timeline changes, thanks to your actions during the game. She makes the decision to remove the variable. Most people are reading this as killing Booker before he has a chance to become Comstock, but I think that's wrong. Yea, you black out during the baptism, but you also black out during the baptism upon arriving at Columbia. That was Chekhov's gun. She drowns Booker until he passes out, then deposits him back in time with his memories of his potential choice intact.
The variable of the baptism has now become a constant where he accepts the baptism(at least in the terms of becoming a new man), but doesn't become a crazed cult leader and doesn't sell his daughter. This also explains how he wakes up in the post credit scene, with his daughter that was born years after the baptism, which is hard to do if you've just been murdered in all realities.
I'm sure I missed some details or misunderstood the timelines or something, but I like this reading of it so I'm sticking to it unless I see something better.
If true, that makes me sad, because it really trivializes any "choice" that I have in the game. Sure, getting one thing over another because of a choice I made is at least something, but (early game raffle spoiler)
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WiiU Username: MordaRazgrom
Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
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Agreed. That bit may not have had any effect on the ending of the game, but hey...
WiiU Username: MordaRazgrom
Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
WoW/Diablo 3 Battlenet Battletag: MordaRazgrom#1755
Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
I love this post.
To see a player lamenting that they made a choice that had very little effect on the world and how it cultured in them a level of apathy and disinterest really cements for me just how great a job the Devs did at building an emotional bridge between Booker and the Player.
For me, unfortunately, I see it as laziness. Here's my reason. There's a way for developers to go into a game and give you a feeling that no matter what you choose, you're going to have bad consequences and that, ultimately, you just can't affect change by yourself. Vampire Masquerade does that, Deus Ex, The Walking Dead series is good about it too. In this game, they just didn't bother to code anything into the game. It's basically the equivalent of an artist giving you a blank piece of paper and saying "You can look at it any which way you want! it's awesome how clever I am!"
WiiU Username: MordaRazgrom
Steam Username: MordaRazgrom
WoW/Diablo 3 Battlenet Battletag: MordaRazgrom#1755
Me and my wife have a gamer YouTube page if interested www.youtube.com/TeamMarriage
I'm actually really excited about this and kind of want it? why the hell is it listed as like $80 though????
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I think you are really downplaying the consequence of that action.
Sure, magically the couple either survives or it doesn't based on your decision, but that doesn't really make any sense given how the scene was implemented.
Also: is there a list somewhere of ALL the anachronistic songs in the game?
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
However, most board games online retailers slash the price by like $20 or so.
Sorry, but you're just wrong.
The game tells you later whether they died, but there's no factual difference for it to make more or less sense that they did or didn't die.
To be perfectly clear, in every case they grab you, shout at you, and then you kill them all.
MSRP is a weird thing for that particular hobby.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
It's a Constant.