That change has the potential to kneecap medium laser builds if not implement end well.
Well, there's no reason that the MLAS penalty will start at 4; it seems to me that they're saying it's adjustable on a weapon by weapon basis. Like, for PPCs, it's 3 "for free" (should by 2, IMO, but whatever); for MLASes, maybe it's 5 or 6; or it's 3, but the penalty is only +2 heat.
There's a number of ways I can see them going with this.
Hmm, in reality, that new heat mechanic only needed to apply to PPC's really. It's interesting as to why they included lasers. Perhaps PGI feels they don't want mass boating of any kind, or if you do boat, with penalty.
Regardless it's a good mechanic and when it's first implemented it may suck, or not work, but a patch or two and it should be a fine way of balancing weapons that can be boated.
It doesn't even prevent boating honestly. It just prevents people from alpha striking with identical weapons without a penalty. A guy can still fill his mech with PPC's and fire them off 3 at a time with a second between each volley.
Pulse Lasers are being normalized to have their variances standardized between the different sizes. This is in preparation of them being tuned as we move toward launch. What this directly means is that for now, Small Pulse Lasers will have their damage increased to 3.4 and their heat reduced to 2.4. Large Pulse Lasers will have their damage increased to 10.6 but their heat is also increased to 8.5. This puts all 3 pulse lasers in alignment of having an approximate 1.25 variance for DPS and a 1.3 variance for HPS. Once this is implemented into the live servers, we will be looking at how they play out and making further adjustments as needed. (June 18th Patch)
Urgh. While I'm all for boosting pulse lasers, this is the completely wrong way to go about doing this. Why not decrease the fire rate and beam duration? Make it stand out against lasers more?
Spiking LPLs' heat by 1.2 points for a paltry 0.6 damage boost is also pretty terrible. They're barely viable as is.
It's a step in the right direction, is my point. Compared to what other people are proposing to PGI, this is a pretty light move that can be adjusted to have greater impacts.
A couple of people have suggested
1) Treat ER PPC and PPCs as a one type of weapon, ER LL and LL too.
2) Set the PPC limit to 2, 3 PPC + Gauss builds should already be affected by a penalty.
3) AC20 should be limited to one, with a significant heat penalty for firing two at once.
I could agree with the first point. The second and third should be implemented later if it's needed.
Limiting PPC alphas to 2 kinda hurts the Awesome more than anything else.
Could be quirk for the AWS? That might not be a bad idea. Make it more...viable.
The 4P was noted specifically as a mech that would suffer due to its boating nature if it wasn't taken into account. I wouldn't be surprised to see the AWS receive similar special treatment.
+1
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
So...the Black/Death-dtar will be....a lot hotter in the future, I take it?
Hrmmm. That seems to go against the whole point of the 4P.
The idea for the Deathstar is that you might be able to do 6 at once, according to the example, but then penalties start to accrue. So keep the lunchbox on one group, save the others. To me, it would mean that I'd change the Blackstar back into a Flashjack and give it a PPC and six MLs, or 2LL/6ML, or something along those lines.
So...the Black/Death-dtar will be....a lot hotter in the future, I take it?
Hrmmm. That seems to go against the whole point of the 4P.
The idea for the Deathstar is that you might be able to do 6 at once, according to the example, but then penalties start to accrue. So keep the lunchbox on one group, save the others. To me, it would mean that I'd change the Blackstar back into a Flashjack and give it a PPC and six MLs, or 2LL/6ML, or something along those lines.
Fire the box, wait .5 seconds, fire the three remaining lasers, no heat penalty. Slight nerf to concentrated damage.
+2
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Yes. It might be better to just quote the example, I'm getting the impression that it wasn't there originally:
An example:
Mech Model: Hunchback-4P
This Mech (known as the Swayback) is capable of firing 9 energy weapons all at the same time. There are 6 energy hardpoints in the pod on its shoulder, one on each arm and one on the head. The most common build for this Mech is to boat it with Medium Lasers.
We take into consideration that the 6-pack pod is intended to be fired all at once and a player should not be penalized for this. It is for this reason that we would set the Medium Laser threshold to 6; meaning that firing 6 MLs simultaneously will NOT suffer from a heat scale penalty. The 6 MLs will generate the standard amount of heat currently in the game.
The heat scale penalty kicks in when the player fires 7 or more MLs and for each ML fired beyond 7, the heat scale increases. The breakdown would look as follows (Keep in mind, these numbers are for demonstration purposes only):
6 ML fired = 0 heat penalty
7 ML fired = 5 heat penalty
8 ML fired = 10 heat penalty
9 ML fired = 20 heat penalty
To avoid the heat penalty while playing a Swayback is easily avoided if the player fires 6 MLs and waits 0.5 seconds and then fires the remaining 3 MLs. Doing so will result in 0 heat penalties.
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Sooooo. LRMs. I did some calculations. Stacking LRM5s is better than big packs, if you can deal with the increased heat and the multiple slots needed. Tempted to try this on the RVN-3L and the JR7-D.
My shorthand might be confusing, but I think it's obvious.
That's stated in a way to make it sound like that scale is solely for the 4P (or, just the HBK in general). It could be different for the Jenner-F, or the Blackstardeathjack.
Limiting PPC alphas to 2 kinda hurts the Awesome more than anything else.
Could be quirk for the AWS? That might not be a bad idea. Make it more...viable.
The 4P was noted specifically as a mech that would suffer due to its boating nature if it wasn't taken into account. I wouldn't be surprised to see the AWS receive similar special treatment.
I would be. They've made it pretty clear they don't give a shit about the Awesome, or really making any more tweaks to already introduced 'mechs any time in the foreseeable future.
0
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
That's stated in a way to make it sound like that scale is solely for the 4P (or, just the HBK in general). It could be different for the Jenner-F, or the Blackstardeathjack.
The way it sounded to me was that it was how medium lasers, in general, would function. Particularly, this line:
It is for this reason that we would set the Medium Laser threshold to 6; meaning that firing 6 MLs simultaneously will NOT suffer from a heat scale penalty.
So, for the Blackstar, set the six medium lasers in the arm pods (3 per arm) to one firing group, the two in the side torsos for the other two medium lasers.
Not that this change will affect me, anyways...I already run the Blackstar as a single continuous, neverending beam of eye-searing green light (chain-firing eight mediums results in a loooooooong beam time).
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Sooooo. LRMs. I did some calculations. Stacking LRM5s is better than big packs, if you can deal with the increased heat and the multiple slots needed. Tempted to try this on the RVN-3L and the JR7-D.
My shorthand might be confusing, but I think it's obvious.
Here's my take on the data. Basically, smaller LRMs will give you a better DPS but larger ones are more heat efficient. This is also assuming that all missiles hit target. I'm not sure how AMS handles shooting down missiles, and I don't know if there's a difference between it shooting at 1 LRM20 blob or a mass of 4 LRM5 blobs group fired. It is also interesting to note that an LRM15 and LRM5 paired together will do more damage over 10 seconds than 2 LRM 10s, while also weighing 1 ton fewer than the LRM 10s.
god this is fucking horse-shit... its like everyone saw PPC's are getting nerfed and just HAD to jump on the fucking bandwagon... its been bad but tonight has been nothing but PPC's... PPC stalkers, hunchbacks, catapults, atlases, highlanders, phracts, spiders, cicada's, centurions, firebrands... all PPC's all the time.
An example:
Mech Model: Hunchback-4P
This Mech (known as the Swayback) is capable of firing 9 energy weapons all at the same time. There are 6 energy hardpoints in the pod on its shoulder, one on each arm and one on the head. The most common build for this Mech is to boat it with Medium Lasers.
We take into consideration that the 6-pack pod is intended to be fired all at once and a player should not be penalized for this. It is for this reason that we would set the Medium Laser threshold to 6; meaning that firing 6 MLs simultaneously will NOT suffer from a heat scale penalty. The 6 MLs will generate the standard amount of heat currently in the game.
The heat scale penalty kicks in when the player fires 7 or more MLs and for each ML fired beyond 7, the heat scale increases. The breakdown would look as follows (Keep in mind, these numbers are for demonstration purposes only):
6 ML fired = 0 heat penalty
7 ML fired = 5 heat penalty
8 ML fired = 10 heat penalty
9 ML fired = 20 heat penalty
To avoid the heat penalty while playing a Swayback is easily avoided if the player fires 6 MLs and waits 0.5 seconds and then fires the remaining 3 MLs. Doing so will result in 0 heat penalties.
This....this is a good tactic. I like where they are going with this.
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I think so. Also, in case it wasn't clear, Unlocking unlocks it for the entire mech chassis, for all of the variants.
Single application; it lasts until you change it. I think you can change colors all you want, though, without repurchasing the pattern.
I don't really know about that, though, because I only buy permanent camo unlocks, and only when they're on sale.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Wonder how badly ac/2s will be affected. They're already pretty frigging hot. Maybe a base heat reduction?
Well, there's no reason that the MLAS penalty will start at 4; it seems to me that they're saying it's adjustable on a weapon by weapon basis. Like, for PPCs, it's 3 "for free" (should by 2, IMO, but whatever); for MLASes, maybe it's 5 or 6; or it's 3, but the penalty is only +2 heat.
There's a number of ways I can see them going with this.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Regardless it's a good mechanic and when it's first implemented it may suck, or not work, but a patch or two and it should be a fine way of balancing weapons that can be boated.
Urgh. While I'm all for boosting pulse lasers, this is the completely wrong way to go about doing this. Why not decrease the fire rate and beam duration? Make it stand out against lasers more?
Spiking LPLs' heat by 1.2 points for a paltry 0.6 damage boost is also pretty terrible. They're barely viable as is.
A couple of people have suggested
I could agree with the first point. The second and third should be implemented later if it's needed.
But I want dazzle on my Wang!
Could be quirk for the AWS? That might not be a bad idea. Make it more...viable.
DaMoon does not support this.
So that's where you got your nick from!
are we running two channels in vent, one assault, one conquest? I am gonna dust off the reaper and the metal baby.
The 4P was noted specifically as a mech that would suffer due to its boating nature if it wasn't taken into account. I wouldn't be surprised to see the AWS receive similar special treatment.
The idea for the Deathstar is that you might be able to do 6 at once, according to the example, but then penalties start to accrue. So keep the lunchbox on one group, save the others. To me, it would mean that I'd change the Blackstar back into a Flashjack and give it a PPC and six MLs, or 2LL/6ML, or something along those lines.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Fire the box, wait .5 seconds, fire the three remaining lasers, no heat penalty. Slight nerf to concentrated damage.
mwomercs.com/forums/topic/122300-gameplay-update-june-112013/
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
My shorthand might be confusing, but I think it's obvious.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I would be. They've made it pretty clear they don't give a shit about the Awesome, or really making any more tweaks to already introduced 'mechs any time in the foreseeable future.
It's okay, I Googled it and the image was exactly what I hoped it would be.
Sorry; you can only tweak your Wang. It costs 8k XP.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Also, playing with Ruckus, obligatory:
The way it sounded to me was that it was how medium lasers, in general, would function. Particularly, this line:
So, for the Blackstar, set the six medium lasers in the arm pods (3 per arm) to one firing group, the two in the side torsos for the other two medium lasers.
Not that this change will affect me, anyways...I already run the Blackstar as a single continuous, neverending beam of eye-searing green light (chain-firing eight mediums results in a loooooooong beam time).
Guys.
I saw a genuine NARC in the field. Like, a mech. With a NARC equipped. He also had LRMs so he was the best kind of NARCer.
So I called out to my teammates "DO NOT SHOOT ALPHA
HE IS AN ENDANGERED SPECIES
HE BELONGS IN A MUSEUM"
he was the second to last mech to fall, and when he did, the teammate who got the kill informed me that
"Mr. Jones. There is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away."
Here's my take on the data. Basically, smaller LRMs will give you a better DPS but larger ones are more heat efficient. This is also assuming that all missiles hit target. I'm not sure how AMS handles shooting down missiles, and I don't know if there's a difference between it shooting at 1 LRM20 blob or a mass of 4 LRM5 blobs group fired. It is also interesting to note that an LRM15 and LRM5 paired together will do more damage over 10 seconds than 2 LRM 10s, while also weighing 1 ton fewer than the LRM 10s.
damage heat cooldown dmg/heat dmg/10 s heat/10 s LRM5 5.50 2.00 3.25 2.75 22.00 8.00 LRM10 11.00 4.00 3.75 2.75 33.00 12.00 LRM15 16.50 5.00 4.25 3.30 49.50 15.00 LRM20 22.00 6.00 4.75 3.67 66.00 18.00 damage heat cooldown dmg/heat dmg/10 s heat/10 s 4 LRM5 22.00 8.00 3.25 2.75 88.00 32.00 2 LRM10 22.00 8.00 3.75 2.75 66.00 24.00 LRM15+LRM5 22.00 7.00 mixed 3.14 71.50 23.00 LRM20 22.00 6.00 4.75 3.67 66.00 18.00Well we're pretty sure the medal is just for your profile, but the .50 cal is definitely cockpit swag
I think I'm not the worst at Jenners
This....this is a good tactic. I like where they are going with this.
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"Oh what a day, what a LOVELY DAY!"
I would do this, but I have to settle for hating everyone who ever goes to PAX because I always want to but never can.
Maybe if I manage to get up to Seattle for grad school. SOMEDAY.
That is a monstrous buff, I hope that's just speculation and not something they will actually be doing.
MWO: Adamski