shive is to land crippling poison, cos negates any ice lancing. My hemo's crit in the 1600 range, not 1k.
basically, most of you people on this thread, are terrible at your class.
God you are so full of shit.
Why don't you shower us with some screenshots of your impossible feats of excellence? Better yet, post your armory profile while you're at it.
Just got my arena fist weapon today, managed to land a couple hemo crits in the upper 1500s... But I'd say my average range so far is probably 9-1.2k.
I can't theorycraft too well vs. frost mage because there's too many possible counters each class can throw out at each other. You have to think on your feet. That's why it's fun, even if I don't win 100% of the time. =/
Nuele on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One-eyed chicks are hot.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
I'm wondering why that guy decided 10 would be a good level for his twink? He could have named him "Nineteen" and actually you know, kill stuff in BG's.
I'm wondering why that guy decided 10 would be a good level for his twink? He could have named him "Nineteen" and actually you know, kill stuff in BG's.
Or Seventy and got a bunch of epics and killed shit.
I'm guessing he made the character for fun. Call me crazy.
Sooo, my Rogue seems to be struggling to get into a Karazhan guild at the moment (left my old guild as they were never going to get it together, only one that isnt full on Rogues raid too damn early for me as I actually work)
Thinking about just going PvP with this guy for now, BG'ing it for the Marshall gear then maybe going for an Arena Team. Sound like a good idea?
I was thinking of going Shadowstep for the BG's, but I hear this isnt so hot in the Arena (don't know why that would be) or maybe Hemo if it didnt mean going BS for the MH, or stick with Mutilate?
Answers on a postcard (or below if one isnt to hand)
Sooo, my Rogue seems to be struggling to get into a Karazhan guild at the moment (left my old guild as they were never going to get it together, only one that isnt full on Rogues raid too damn early for me as I actually work)
Thinking about just going PvP with this guy for now, BG'ing it for the Marshall gear then maybe going for an Arena Team. Sound like a good idea?
I was thinking of going Shadowstep for the BG's, but I hear this isnt so hot in the Arena (don't know why that would be) or maybe Hemo if it didnt mean going BS for the MH, or stick with Mutilate?
Answers on a postcard (or below if one isnt to hand)
Mutilate and Hemo builds are king in the Arena. Shadowstep is a one trick pony. Fun as hell, but once you've landed that huge initial ambush crit, you are kind of screwed. You don't have near the control that Mutilate and Hemo builds have over a fight, which makes you a lot less effective in an Arena-type atmosphere.
If you go Hemo, I would suggest either a 21,0,40 build, or a Seal Fate Hemo build. CP generation is key and SF Hemo will kick ass, especially if you can get your crit rate up. For Mutilate, if you are going strictly PvP I would definitely do 41,0,20 or 43,0,18 depending on where you want filler points.
Dagger is king only if you enjoy trying to get behind people who are very aware of your presence and actively trying to thwart your efforts to arrive at the proper location.
I did 70 levels as dagger then went maces at 70 for the drakefist. I bought a night blade the other day because I thought I missed daggers. Paired it up with a retainer's blade.
Turns out I wasted almost 2k on said daggers because I forgot how horrible trying to get behind people in PvP is, especially the arena. It's bad enough just trying to chase people, nevermind getting behind them.
Everyone has too many hitpoints for dagger burst to mean much now. It used to be awesome 3 shotting casters with ambush/backstab/cb evisc, but that doesn't work anymore. Combat maces has treated me much better by far in the level 70 PvP area.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
Dagger is king only if you enjoy trying to get behind people who are very aware of your presence and actively trying to thwart your efforts to arrive at the proper location.
I did 70 levels as dagger then went maces at 70 for the drakefist. I bought a night blade the other day because I thought I missed daggers. Paired it up with a retainer's blade.
Turns out I wasted almost 2k on said daggers because I forgot how horrible trying to get behind people in PvP is, especially the arena. It's bad enough just trying to chase people, nevermind getting behind them.
Everyone has too many hitpoints for dagger burst to mean much now. It used to be awesome 3 shotting casters with ambush/backstab/cb evisc, but that doesn't work anymore. Combat maces has treated me much better by far in the level 70 PvP area.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
Crippling poison helps with the positioning easier. And daggers are still good for on demand damage. But yeah, combat is nice too but people tend to gravitate towards different styles that they're more comfortable with. I, personally, love daggers and love mutilate but I feel that a 30/0/31 simply has more shit to throw at people.
Dagger is king only if you enjoy trying to get behind people who are very aware of your presence and actively trying to thwart your efforts to arrive at the proper location.
I did 70 levels as dagger then went maces at 70 for the drakefist. I bought a night blade the other day because I thought I missed daggers. Paired it up with a retainer's blade.
Turns out I wasted almost 2k on said daggers because I forgot how horrible trying to get behind people in PvP is, especially the arena. It's bad enough just trying to chase people, nevermind getting behind them.
Everyone has too many hitpoints for dagger burst to mean much now. It used to be awesome 3 shotting casters with ambush/backstab/cb evisc, but that doesn't work anymore. Combat maces has treated me much better by far in the level 70 PvP area.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
I just went from mutilate to 30/3/28 (for Imp Gouge until I hit 70 -- 67 currently), and I'm still getting the hang of that kind of hybrid build. At least I don't have to worry about poisons being applied first. Yet it still feels the combo points come slowly, which is probably due to 22 percent crit chance and lacking Premed for the time being.
Rogues suck, I like all of the builds and I can never seem to pick one and stick with it. The 'funnest' to me was pre-TBC when I was 51 points in sub. I wonder if taking a heavy sub build and swapping out daggers for ambushes to a suitable hemo weapon is worth the extra hassle.
sortof. you its sometimes worth swapping during the fight, but you find yourself swapping based on your target and just using that weapon for the engagement, just because the cooldown seems to hurt more than i had initially expected.
If you go Hemo, I would suggest either a 21,0,40 build, or a Seal Fate Hemo build. CP generation is key and SF Hemo will kick ass, especially if you can get your crit rate up. For Mutilate, if you are going strictly PvP I would definitely do 41,0,20 or 43,0,18 depending on where you want filler points.
I'm a deadliness/sf hemo build with arena fist weapon and fucking loving it. Admittedly, my crit percent is a little lower than I'm comfortable with, so it's not working quite as well as I envisioned but it's still pretty hot. The upside is, I thought my raid DPS was going to be trash as a pure PvP spec but I actually have been doing decently. SnD management is easy when you've got so many CPs flying around that I can actually toss out full point eviscerates while keeping my SnD up at all times.
I'm wondering why that guy decided 10 would be a good level for his twink? He could have named him "Nineteen" and actually you know, kill stuff in BG's.
It's been since yesterday since I looked but he had 2700(IIRC) HKs or so. I'd imagine he takes pretty much anyone in 10-19 who isn't at the higher end of the bracket and twinked out significantly more.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
Damage is hardly trash for Hemo. The problem a lot of people have with it is not understanding how it works. If you get enough AP, your Hemo's catch up and can even eventually surpass a sinister strikes damage. The probelm is A) Reliance on the slowest fucking one-hander known to man, and AP.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
I've specced combat specifically for PvP and it doesn't even compare to Hemo IMO. Have you tried to go toe-to-toe out of stealth with a Warrior at 70? You don't even last long enough to say "Oh shit". Your CP generation is crap which means that your control over an opponent is crap. Even if you get the jump on somebody, your chance of bringing them down before they get out of stun is next to nothing, and once an opponent is out of your control, every mechanic in the game is working against you.
Hemo is about control, you have so many ways to keep somebody "locked up", they don't get a chance to bust out that fear, or MS you for 50% of your health. Add faster CP generation, the ability to use almost every single cooldown twice (Prep), and you have a build that is superior to combat for PvP if you gear yourself correctly.
Things I like about Combat for PvP: Imp Sprint
Nerves of Steel
Endurance
Blade Flurry
AR (Unreliable though because of the long ass cooldown)
Things I love about Hemo for PvP:
Premed Prep: Most valuable PvP tool and one you will miss constantly if you spec combat
Deadliness
MoD
Camo
Cold Blood
Imp Sap
Master of Subtlety
Sinister Calling: If you go that route
Seal Fate: If you go that route
Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for combat builds, but as far as PvP is concerned it's just not very effective compared to other faster CP generation builds.
I'm wondering why that guy decided 10 would be a good level for his twink? He could have named him "Nineteen" and actually you know, kill stuff in BG's.
It's been since yesterday since I looked but he had 2700(IIRC) HKs or so. I'd imagine he takes pretty much anyone in 10-19 who isn't at the higher end of the bracket and twinked out significantly more.
I'd guess it's because he went for the novelty percent to dodge? Ratings give you a higher percentiles at lower levels, correct? Don't know if 10-19 would be significant. Maybe it's just for the fact that he can probably trash a lot of level 19s as a 10.
Actually, what I'm wondering is how did she manage to snare a lucky fishing at at level 10? Isn't there a level requirement to looting the fish for it?
Nuele on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One-eyed chicks are hot.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited April 2007
there just aren't enough slow weapons to let hemo catch up to the damage of ss.
i don't think i've seen a single hemo build on a high level arena team rogue.
one day we can hope there will be a new 2.8 or 2.9 speed weapon put in but bleh.
Dagger is king only if you enjoy trying to get behind people who are very aware of your presence and actively trying to thwart your efforts to arrive at the proper location.
I did 70 levels as dagger then went maces at 70 for the drakefist. I bought a night blade the other day because I thought I missed daggers. Paired it up with a retainer's blade.
Turns out I wasted almost 2k on said daggers because I forgot how horrible trying to get behind people in PvP is, especially the arena. It's bad enough just trying to chase people, nevermind getting behind them.
Everyone has too many hitpoints for dagger burst to mean much now. It used to be awesome 3 shotting casters with ambush/backstab/cb evisc, but that doesn't work anymore. Combat maces has treated me much better by far in the level 70 PvP area.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
rogues are in arena teams for control not damage
beyond that, mutilate is far better burst damage than combat
I still hold that 61 sub/spirit build is best. I mean, c'mon, who cares how bad you are at killing things, you regen all your hp in 10 secs afterwards!
Failing that, combat or mut/combat is best. Hemo is just lacking unless all you do is PvP. 30/0/31 is the best arena build though imo. Put talents in imp. BS for lots of burst, or use hemo for max controll. Bonus of prep and QR.
Edgewalker longboots finally drop for the first time, and of course the rogue who hasn't been to Kara yet gets it. I'd hate him but he's a class leader and always bring me pots (+ he's the only other good rogue in the guild. At 70 anyway).
I still hold that 61 sub/spirit build is best. I mean, c'mon, who cares how bad you are at killing things, you regen all your hp in 10 secs afterwards!
* Added a new double-attack animation for "Mutilate".
* "Cloak of Shadows": The tooltip has been adjusted to indicate this ability removes hostile effects, rather than dispels them. "Cloak of Shadows" does not count as a dispel, and will not interact with dispel resistance or effects triggered by dispelling. This ability no longer removes the "Weakened Soul" debuff.
* "Deadly Throw": This ability will now damage hunters and their pets when they are affected by "The Beast Within" or "Bestial Wrath". Those targets will still be immune to the movement impairing portion of "Deadly Throw".
* Fixed a data error that caused "Ghostly Strike" and "Riposte" to generate more threat than intended.
* Fixed a bug where the "Silence" effect on "Garrote" was getting resisted too often.
* "Insignia of the Alliance/Horde" and "Medallion of the Alliance/Horde" now remove "Fear", "Stun" and "Polymorph" effects and no longer remove "Charm" effects.
* "Improved Sap" (Subtlety) renamed "Dirty Tricks": Increases the range of your "Sap" and "Blind" abilities by 2/4 yards and reduces the energy cost of your "Sap" and "Blind" abilities by 25/50%.
* Increased the frequency and amount of "Blinding Powder" found in pickpocketed junk boxes.
* "Mutilate": This ability will now always consume the "Cold Blood" buff when it strikes an opponent.
* Poisons: The difficulty of dispelling these is now based off the level of the player, not the level of the weapon the poison is applied to.
* Reduced the reagents required to create most poisons.
* "Remorseless Attacks" (Assassination): "Hemorrhage" added to the buff tooltip. This ability will no longer trigger from killing totems.
* Rogue poisons no longer have charges.
* "Sap" now automatically gains the full benefit of "Improved Sap".
* "Shadowstep" (Subtlety): The cooldown has been reduced to 15 seconds.
* "Stealth" will now be broken correctly by damage shield such as "Oil of Immolation".
* "Surprise Attacks" (Combat): This talent now correctly prevents "Envenom" from being dodged.
Posts
Just got my arena fist weapon today, managed to land a couple hemo crits in the upper 1500s... But I'd say my average range so far is probably 9-1.2k.
I can't theorycraft too well vs. frost mage because there's too many possible counters each class can throw out at each other. You have to think on your feet. That's why it's fun, even if I don't win 100% of the time. =/
One-eyed chicks are hot.
yep, gonna find a lot of people on this forum that believe you. for sure.
He's in my state too.
So close, so very close.
:shock:
They could at least have made the "One" ring unique
10-19 is the first tier.
Also, anyone know if they are buffing t4?
Or Seventy and got a bunch of epics and killed shit.
I'm guessing he made the character for fun. Call me crazy.
Thinking about just going PvP with this guy for now, BG'ing it for the Marshall gear then maybe going for an Arena Team. Sound like a good idea?
I was thinking of going Shadowstep for the BG's, but I hear this isnt so hot in the Arena (don't know why that would be) or maybe Hemo if it didnt mean going BS for the MH, or stick with Mutilate?
Answers on a postcard (or below if one isnt to hand)
Mutilate and Hemo builds are king in the Arena. Shadowstep is a one trick pony. Fun as hell, but once you've landed that huge initial ambush crit, you are kind of screwed. You don't have near the control that Mutilate and Hemo builds have over a fight, which makes you a lot less effective in an Arena-type atmosphere.
If you go Hemo, I would suggest either a 21,0,40 build, or a Seal Fate Hemo build. CP generation is key and SF Hemo will kick ass, especially if you can get your crit rate up. For Mutilate, if you are going strictly PvP I would definitely do 41,0,20 or 43,0,18 depending on where you want filler points.
I did 70 levels as dagger then went maces at 70 for the drakefist. I bought a night blade the other day because I thought I missed daggers. Paired it up with a retainer's blade.
Turns out I wasted almost 2k on said daggers because I forgot how horrible trying to get behind people in PvP is, especially the arena. It's bad enough just trying to chase people, nevermind getting behind them.
Everyone has too many hitpoints for dagger burst to mean much now. It used to be awesome 3 shotting casters with ambush/backstab/cb evisc, but that doesn't work anymore. Combat maces has treated me much better by far in the level 70 PvP area.
And I tried hemo but it's just horrible. I don't know how anyone can actually enjoy hemo. Damage is trash and all you gain is a few gimmicky cooldowns which I never remember to use anyway.
To each their own, though. I'd say if you like fighting for position to get better burst damage go daggers. If you like burning through cooldowns and blind/flash powder to get a kill hemo is probably fine. But if you just want to beat the crap out of people and not have to rely on tricks that can mostly be negated by people who know what they're doing a good combat fist/mace/sword is A+.
I just went from mutilate to 30/3/28 (for Imp Gouge until I hit 70 -- 67 currently), and I'm still getting the hang of that kind of hybrid build. At least I don't have to worry about poisons being applied first. Yet it still feels the combo points come slowly, which is probably due to 22 percent crit chance and lacking Premed for the time being.
Rogues suck, I like all of the builds and I can never seem to pick one and stick with it. The 'funnest' to me was pre-TBC when I was 51 points in sub. I wonder if taking a heavy sub build and swapping out daggers for ambushes to a suitable hemo weapon is worth the extra hassle.
I'm a deadliness/sf hemo build with arena fist weapon and fucking loving it. Admittedly, my crit percent is a little lower than I'm comfortable with, so it's not working quite as well as I envisioned but it's still pretty hot. The upside is, I thought my raid DPS was going to be trash as a pure PvP spec but I actually have been doing decently. SnD management is easy when you've got so many CPs flying around that I can actually toss out full point eviscerates while keeping my SnD up at all times.
One-eyed chicks are hot.
It's been since yesterday since I looked but he had 2700(IIRC) HKs or so. I'd imagine he takes pretty much anyone in 10-19 who isn't at the higher end of the bracket and twinked out significantly more.
Damage is hardly trash for Hemo. The problem a lot of people have with it is not understanding how it works. If you get enough AP, your Hemo's catch up and can even eventually surpass a sinister strikes damage. The probelm is A) Reliance on the slowest fucking one-hander known to man, and
I've specced combat specifically for PvP and it doesn't even compare to Hemo IMO. Have you tried to go toe-to-toe out of stealth with a Warrior at 70? You don't even last long enough to say "Oh shit". Your CP generation is crap which means that your control over an opponent is crap. Even if you get the jump on somebody, your chance of bringing them down before they get out of stun is next to nothing, and once an opponent is out of your control, every mechanic in the game is working against you.
Hemo is about control, you have so many ways to keep somebody "locked up", they don't get a chance to bust out that fear, or MS you for 50% of your health. Add faster CP generation, the ability to use almost every single cooldown twice (Prep), and you have a build that is superior to combat for PvP if you gear yourself correctly.
Things I like about Combat for PvP:
Imp Sprint
Nerves of Steel
Endurance
Blade Flurry
AR (Unreliable though because of the long ass cooldown)
Things I love about Hemo for PvP:
Premed
Prep: Most valuable PvP tool and one you will miss constantly if you spec combat
Deadliness
MoD
Camo
Cold Blood
Imp Sap
Master of Subtlety
Sinister Calling: If you go that route
Seal Fate: If you go that route
Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for combat builds, but as far as PvP is concerned it's just not very effective compared to other faster CP generation builds.
I'd guess it's because he went for the novelty percent to dodge? Ratings give you a higher percentiles at lower levels, correct? Don't know if 10-19 would be significant. Maybe it's just for the fact that he can probably trash a lot of level 19s as a 10.
Actually, what I'm wondering is how did she manage to snare a lucky fishing at at level 10? Isn't there a level requirement to looting the fish for it?
One-eyed chicks are hot.
i don't think i've seen a single hemo build on a high level arena team rogue.
one day we can hope there will be a new 2.8 or 2.9 speed weapon put in but bleh.
Sadly, I doubt there ever will be. Or, if they do, they would nerf Hemo by normalizing it or some other stupid shit.
I think the slowest I've seen at 70 is a 2.70 speed weapon, with the vast majority of slow weapons being at 2.6.
edit: Ignore the caster weapons but here.
rogues are in arena teams for control not damage
beyond that, mutilate is far better burst damage than combat
ah yes the fabled 41/41/41 build
Horrible build, you have like no options.
guys what do you think of dis bild ol?
Failing that, combat or mut/combat is best. Hemo is just lacking unless all you do is PvP. 30/0/31 is the best arena build though imo. Put talents in imp. BS for lots of burst, or use hemo for max controll. Bonus of prep and QR.
Edgewalker longboots finally drop for the first time, and of course the rogue who hasn't been to Kara yet gets it. I'd hate him but he's a class leader and always bring me pots (+ he's the only other good rogue in the guild. At 70 anyway).
seriously, though, a 41ass/20 combat build isn't that bad.
I think I speak for all of us here when I say:
Double-U Tee Eff?
Fixed.
Yes it still works for PvP but is inferior to 41,0,20.
* Added a new double-attack animation for "Mutilate".
* "Cloak of Shadows": The tooltip has been adjusted to indicate this ability removes hostile effects, rather than dispels them. "Cloak of Shadows" does not count as a dispel, and will not interact with dispel resistance or effects triggered by dispelling. This ability no longer removes the "Weakened Soul" debuff.
* "Deadly Throw": This ability will now damage hunters and their pets when they are affected by "The Beast Within" or "Bestial Wrath". Those targets will still be immune to the movement impairing portion of "Deadly Throw".
* Fixed a data error that caused "Ghostly Strike" and "Riposte" to generate more threat than intended.
* Fixed a bug where the "Silence" effect on "Garrote" was getting resisted too often.
* "Insignia of the Alliance/Horde" and "Medallion of the Alliance/Horde" now remove "Fear", "Stun" and "Polymorph" effects and no longer remove "Charm" effects.
* "Improved Sap" (Subtlety) renamed "Dirty Tricks": Increases the range of your "Sap" and "Blind" abilities by 2/4 yards and reduces the energy cost of your "Sap" and "Blind" abilities by 25/50%.
* Increased the frequency and amount of "Blinding Powder" found in pickpocketed junk boxes.
* "Mutilate": This ability will now always consume the "Cold Blood" buff when it strikes an opponent.
* Poisons: The difficulty of dispelling these is now based off the level of the player, not the level of the weapon the poison is applied to.
* Reduced the reagents required to create most poisons.
* "Remorseless Attacks" (Assassination): "Hemorrhage" added to the buff tooltip. This ability will no longer trigger from killing totems.
* Rogue poisons no longer have charges.
* "Sap" now automatically gains the full benefit of "Improved Sap".
* "Shadowstep" (Subtlety): The cooldown has been reduced to 15 seconds.
* "Stealth" will now be broken correctly by damage shield such as "Oil of Immolation".
* "Surprise Attacks" (Combat): This talent now correctly prevents "Envenom" from being dodged.
>_>
<_<
(Oh god please be true)
Oh I see that they have already been confirmed... Yay.
But ohhh my god, imp. sap is finally stock. I thought I'd never see the day.
One-eyed chicks are hot.