I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?
they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.
Before this conversation, I was under the impression that it was. It might still be! I dunno, this thread isn't a wonderful sample size.
i mean, it's definitely not. like half a dozen separate people have agreed with my posts on this matter.
i don't know if the majority of people think like you or if the majority think like me? but it's pretty much indisputably not 99.9% in one camp vs the other
I mean you had pass it off as their own and then explain every minute detail on the other
if I pick up a guitar and start strumming or start playing the piano in the hall would you assume that I was passing things off as my own if I didn't say anything about who wrote the music?
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TavIrish Minister for DefenceRegistered Userregular
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.
Before this conversation, I was under the impression that it was. It might still be! I dunno, this thread isn't a wonderful sample size.
i mean, it's definitely not. like half a dozen separate people have agreed with my posts on this matter.
i don't know if the majority of people think like you or if the majority think like me? but it's pretty much indisputably not 99.9% in one camp vs the other
Well, there's my opinion on your hypothetical for what it's worth.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I mean you had pass it off as their own and then explain every minute detail on the other
if I pick up a guitar and start strumming or start playing the piano in the hall would you assume that I was passing things off as my own if I didn't say anything about who wrote the music?
i think comedy is probably super vulnerable to this sort of the thing because it's socially really valuable while also is mostly regarded as something anyone with an asshole is capable of doing
i can't think of many other art forms where someone would assume you made it unless you were like, established as whatever artist
maybe writing? cribbing a blog post for like, an interesting facebook status would be a kind of low level dick move too, i think
though tedious this has been an informative discussion
i literally had no idea this was even a thing
there are specific bits and 'ideas' that i think are very obviously kind of individualized. like if you told louis ck's bit about "imagine your dead grandmom being the cadaver the medical student gets an F on". that is so niche and such a 'realized' joke that i would probably think less of someone who said it, if they didn't attribute it.
but when patrice o'neal said 'there are too many white people here to get that joke', and jeselnik responded 'you know what no one's ever said? too few black people'
that is to me just a loose linguistic quip. general racial humor with wordplay. if someone just 'told' that joke without setup and i later found out it was already out in the wild, i might roll my eyes at them being uncreative i guess? maybe? probably not. but if it just fit the conversation- if someone set them up for jeselnik's line, and they used it and didn't credit it, i wouldn't care. if i found out later i'd think 'heh, that was a good time to use that'.
if i used that line myself organically in conversation i would probably try and credit it because i want him to get more attention and not have people write him off for his horrible tv show. and i think the context for the joke makes it funnier so i'd describe it. but i wouldn't feel like a dog if the conversation flowed past it without me saying anything. that is just a funny quip i heard somewhere. a few years from now i'll probably have forgotten where i heard it, because it's not something i'd closley associate with a given personality. just a funny thing i heard somewhere.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
English this year at my school is supposed to be conversation focused.
So my warm ups need to be conversation focused.
Having a hard time thinking of ways to make people who don't want to have conversations have conversations.
Mad libs. If artists have most of their creative blocks by having too many options, limit freedom by having your students pull nouns and verbs out of a hat and having a nonsense conversation. An ice breaker.
... this might be terrible advice for an ESL class.
Posts
there are other types of value besides monetary
I value humor whether I pay for it or not
Shots fired.
yeah but you left a bit of space there inbetween
i mean, it's definitely not. like half a dozen separate people have agreed with my posts on this matter.
i don't know if the majority of people think like you or if the majority think like me? but it's pretty much indisputably not 99.9% in one camp vs the other
no I'm not
NNID: Hakkekage
He is shedding his winter coat. He has also chewed apart the power cable to our vacuum.
Emergency trip to Target is go go go.
oh no that's because i like pictures and I share them
I don't know what this means
I didn't know you had a bunny
Pics or Easter is cancelled
NNID: Hakkekage
sorry
I mean you had pass it off as their own and then explain every minute detail on the other
if I pick up a guitar and start strumming or start playing the piano in the hall would you assume that I was passing things off as my own if I didn't say anything about who wrote the music?
Well, there's my opinion on your hypothetical for what it's worth.
He came with my fiancé but he's pretty great.
When I get back I'll see if I can make this work on mobile.
Which means I slept for approximately 21 hours, not including breaks
it would vary depending on what I was hearing
useful answer right?
i can't think of many other art forms where someone would assume you made it unless you were like, established as whatever artist
maybe writing? cribbing a blog post for like, an interesting facebook status would be a kind of low level dick move too, i think
So my warm ups need to be conversation focused.
Having a hard time thinking of ways to make people who don't want to have conversations have conversations.
this conversation was too important
I suggest breaking the ice with a joke
there's this one about a sandwich
That's uh... That's not good. You gotta take care of yourself girl!
my alarms are set for three hours from now
but someone on the internet disagreed with me damnit
Hey guy, how are you? Are you prepared for the English pop quiz? Do you want to know the answers?
NNID: Hakkekage
Alchohol
why
why
everything hurts
and I dropped a wall stone on the side of my leg and got a nasty scrape that hurts way more than it looks like it should
fuck the outdoors just fuck it
:bz
My sister asked me to open the pickle jar yesterday because apparently I have all these muscles from the gym. But it defeated me.
NNID: Hakkekage
Sorry Tav
Already putting plans in motion to gain access to them
Ludious how are your haxxoring skills?
i literally had no idea this was even a thing
there are specific bits and 'ideas' that i think are very obviously kind of individualized. like if you told louis ck's bit about "imagine your dead grandmom being the cadaver the medical student gets an F on". that is so niche and such a 'realized' joke that i would probably think less of someone who said it, if they didn't attribute it.
but when patrice o'neal said 'there are too many white people here to get that joke', and jeselnik responded 'you know what no one's ever said? too few black people'
that is to me just a loose linguistic quip. general racial humor with wordplay. if someone just 'told' that joke without setup and i later found out it was already out in the wild, i might roll my eyes at them being uncreative i guess? maybe? probably not. but if it just fit the conversation- if someone set them up for jeselnik's line, and they used it and didn't credit it, i wouldn't care. if i found out later i'd think 'heh, that was a good time to use that'.
if i used that line myself organically in conversation i would probably try and credit it because i want him to get more attention and not have people write him off for his horrible tv show. and i think the context for the joke makes it funnier so i'd describe it. but i wouldn't feel like a dog if the conversation flowed past it without me saying anything. that is just a funny quip i heard somewhere. a few years from now i'll probably have forgotten where i heard it, because it's not something i'd closley associate with a given personality. just a funny thing i heard somewhere.
I've had to ask my sister to open jars for me.
She is much smaller I have no idea what witchcraft she uses.
Mad libs. If artists have most of their creative blocks by having too many options, limit freedom by having your students pull nouns and verbs out of a hat and having a nonsense conversation. An ice breaker.
... this might be terrible advice for an ESL class.
instead of politics again
more like Tav O'Mencia
alright alright alright
that's how i know i'm winning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81c3-bN4GXc
we have pages and pages and we go as in depth as we do about world problems
which is what I love
I met a much disliked politician at a student thing
we talked about comedy for about 5 minutes while students in various different political parties shouted abuse at him
i think that solidified me taking comedy more seriously than i ever will politics
I go for the opposite effect. If I can get both sides of a debate to hate me, I have won