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I find this amusing: Man won't show Costco Wholesale staff receipt, suffers broken leg, sues for $670,000 (Link)
Article under spoiler:
A man who claims he was pushing his shopping cart out of a Portland Costco Wholesale warehouse when he was detained because he wouldn’t stop and show his receipt is suing the store for $670,000.
Timothy Walls emerged from the Jan. 28, 2013, encounter with a leg broken in multiple places, according to his lawsuit, filed last week in Multnomah County Circuit Court. According to one of Walls’ attorneys, Walls didn’t believe the store had a right to detain him based upon their practice of checking receipts at the door.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
Walls had just bought $102.66 worth of goods from the 4849 N.E. 138th Ave. Costco location, and as he was leaving the store an employee grabbed and held onto his shopping cart and told him he couldn’t leave, according to the suit.
Words were exchanged, and when the employee wouldn’t let go, Walls grabbed him by the shirt collar and pulled him away from his shopping cart, the suit states.
That’s when another employee used “a martial arts type strike with his leg” that the employee had learned while training with the U.S. Armed Forces, the suit states.
Walls contends he was already outside the store and in the breezeway. Costco contends he hadn’t left the store yet.
Bill Stockton, a Hillsboro attorney representing Costco, declined to comment. But in a motion he filed about the incident, he wrote that Walls' injuries were “the sole and direct result of (his) own conduct, fault, and negligence” because Walls is the one who attacked the employees.
Clayton Morrison, a Beaverton attorney representing Walls, said employees didn’t have reasonable suspicion that Walls was stealing and so they didn’t have a right to take hold of the merchandise Walls' lawfully bought. Morrison said the consequences for failing to abide by the store’s blanket policy of checking receipts shouldn’t be detainment -- it should be canceling the customer’s membership.
“The central issue in the case is ... ’What can Costco lawfully do? ... Can they actually stop you and take your property from you?’ Our answer is ‘No,’” Morrison said.
Walls is seeking $150,000 for past and future medical expenses, $20,000 for lost wages and $500,000 for pain and suffering.
I do notice that the suit doesn't go into what "grabbing the employee by the shirt collar and pulling him away from his shopping cart entails." I'm guessing it was an aggressive enough action by the shopper that caused another employee to come to the grabbed employee's defense.
The customer sounds like a real asshole.
Maybe. But employees can't stop you at the door if you don't want to be stopped.
Costco exists in a weird area where you have agreed to stop at the door by virtue of paying a membership fee to shop there.
wat. Surely that's just to get inside.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
It doesn't matter if you have signs on the wall and membership cards, unless you're police, you can't detain someone if they don't want to stop.
i'm pretty sure this is an assertion you just made up
No, we did all this arguin' a few years back when that one employee dude tackled a shopper in the parking lot of ... some store ... somewhere.
oh ok then
You don't HAVE to shop at CostCo. If you don't like the way they do business, shop elsewhere. Dont prance around like a special snowflake guarding the privacy of your receipt while shouting "I KNOW MY RIGHTS"
Like lawyer dude said, the correct response is "then we will cancel your membership".
We all agree that people will be dicks about shit like this, but can you honestly not say you haven't been in a rush before and getting stopped by some person who thinks you're shoplifting and wants to pilfer through your property to make super sure isn't annoying as fuck to deal with? What if you had a bad day on top of it.
Employee 1 was a douchebag, Customer was a dick and possibly committed something like assault, Employee 2 committed goddamn assault for sure
Who escalated what, it's a chain of god damn stupid reactions all the way from beginning to end.
i'm not sure "then we will cancel your membership" is really an adequate response to someone assaulting your employees and attempting to run off with the merchandise they wouldn't allow you to inspect upon exiting, as per their membership agreement
They really should avoid attaching a person's name to a game unless it is Sid Meier.
his current kickstarted project Shroud of the Avatar is coming along very nicely. I chipped in at the basic level and have been following along. They've done a bunch of alpha / beta weekends and community tests and such.
man richard garriott has a pretty horrible track record post-ultima 8 or so.
people seemed to love Ultima Online. Not my thing but still I wouldn't call that terrible.
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
0
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd love to join you and pay your monthly fee but when you are charging me $100 to sign up and then making me pay first and last months dues when I sign up you are pricing me out of joining at all.
Thanks,
stevemarks44
if you join a gym you should go in knowing you're basically asking a mafia don for a favor
Hehe, my gym has no sign up fee or contract.
Oh brilliant
0
LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
Let's take all of the emotion out of this receipt debate
1. No. They can't just stop you. You can be unreasonable and just leave if you want.
1a. But stores with memberships can revoke that membership
1b. Stores without memberships could certainly ban you for it
2. They can stop you if they have reasonable suspicion you stole something. This is a call made by loss prevention usually, not a door checker.
3. Pretty sure most stores have a policy against physical altercations with people, shoplifter or not.
When I go to sam's, I show my receipt because I don't care and I like my membership there.
When I go to fry's, I show my receipt but I glare daggers at the door checker because I am bound by no such agreement and they are real nazis about it.
I'm fairly positive there exists no law about producing a receipt if you're suspected of shoplifting.
I'm also extremely positive there are many laws that say a great deal many things about unlawfully detaining someone on top of that.
i'm fairly positive we are stretching the definition of detention here quite a bit in order to fit the argument that costco does not have a right to detain its customers
maybe you're okay with the store who you have just given money to defaulting to the assumption that you are stealing from them but i am an american and i will not allow my rights to be trampled upon by CommieCo
USA USA USA USA
+1
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
I'd love to join you and pay your monthly fee but when you are charging me $100 to sign up and then making me pay first and last months dues when I sign up you are pricing me out of joining at all.
Thanks,
stevemarks44
if you join a gym you should go in knowing you're basically asking a mafia don for a favor
Hehe, my gym has no sign up fee or contract.
yeah but you don't live in the greatest nation on the planet
with, however, they can, rather obviously as making a shopowner just watch while a shoplifter waltzes out with his stock would be absurd.
What are you supposed to do besides take down their license plate number and call the police? Taze them?
We're getting into the detailed bits here and where exactly the lines go I can't say anything about - won't be the same from country to country or state to state
but, something inbetween "nothing" and "inflicting pain and/or injury", like, say, physically restraining them without using undue force. As is the case here.
0
ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
They really should avoid attaching a person's name to a game unless it is Sid Meier.
his current kickstarted project Shroud of the Avatar is coming along very nicely. I chipped in at the basic level and have been following along. They've done a bunch of alpha / beta weekends and community tests and such.
man richard garriott has a pretty horrible track record post-ultima 8 or so.
people seemed to love Ultima Online. Not my thing but still I wouldn't call that terrible.
to be fair literally everybody who played UO for more than a week cheated like hell to avoid the actual "gameplay" part
I'd love to join you and pay your monthly fee but when you are charging me $100 to sign up and then making me pay first and last months dues when I sign up you are pricing me out of joining at all.
Thanks,
stevemarks44
if you join a gym you should go in knowing you're basically asking a mafia don for a favor
Hehe, my gym has no sign up fee or contract.
Where do you use?
0
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
I find this amusing: Man won't show Costco Wholesale staff receipt, suffers broken leg, sues for $670,000 (Link)
Article under spoiler:
A man who claims he was pushing his shopping cart out of a Portland Costco Wholesale warehouse when he was detained because he wouldn’t stop and show his receipt is suing the store for $670,000.
Timothy Walls emerged from the Jan. 28, 2013, encounter with a leg broken in multiple places, according to his lawsuit, filed last week in Multnomah County Circuit Court. According to one of Walls’ attorneys, Walls didn’t believe the store had a right to detain him based upon their practice of checking receipts at the door.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
Walls had just bought $102.66 worth of goods from the 4849 N.E. 138th Ave. Costco location, and as he was leaving the store an employee grabbed and held onto his shopping cart and told him he couldn’t leave, according to the suit.
Words were exchanged, and when the employee wouldn’t let go, Walls grabbed him by the shirt collar and pulled him away from his shopping cart, the suit states.
That’s when another employee used “a martial arts type strike with his leg” that the employee had learned while training with the U.S. Armed Forces, the suit states.
Walls contends he was already outside the store and in the breezeway. Costco contends he hadn’t left the store yet.
Bill Stockton, a Hillsboro attorney representing Costco, declined to comment. But in a motion he filed about the incident, he wrote that Walls' injuries were “the sole and direct result of (his) own conduct, fault, and negligence” because Walls is the one who attacked the employees.
Clayton Morrison, a Beaverton attorney representing Walls, said employees didn’t have reasonable suspicion that Walls was stealing and so they didn’t have a right to take hold of the merchandise Walls' lawfully bought. Morrison said the consequences for failing to abide by the store’s blanket policy of checking receipts shouldn’t be detainment -- it should be canceling the customer’s membership.
“The central issue in the case is ... ’What can Costco lawfully do? ... Can they actually stop you and take your property from you?’ Our answer is ‘No,’” Morrison said.
Walls is seeking $150,000 for past and future medical expenses, $20,000 for lost wages and $500,000 for pain and suffering.
I do notice that the suit doesn't go into what "grabbing the employee by the shirt collar and pulling him away from his shopping cart entails." I'm guessing it was an aggressive enough action by the shopper that caused another employee to come to the grabbed employee's defense.
The customer sounds like a real asshole.
Maybe. But employees can't stop you at the door if you don't want to be stopped.
Costco exists in a weird area where you have agreed to stop at the door by virtue of paying a membership fee to shop there.
wat. Surely that's just to get inside.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
It doesn't matter if you have signs on the wall and membership cards, unless you're police, you can't detain someone if they don't want to stop.
i'm pretty sure this is an assertion you just made up
No, we did all this arguin' a few years back when that one employee dude tackled a shopper in the parking lot of ... some store ... somewhere.
oh ok then
You don't HAVE to shop at CostCo. If you don't like the way they do business, shop elsewhere. Dont prance around like a special snowflake guarding the privacy of your receipt while shouting "I KNOW MY RIGHTS"
Like lawyer dude said, the correct response is "then we will cancel your membership".
We all agree that people will be dicks about shit like this, but can you honestly not say you haven't been in a rush before and getting stopped by some person who thinks you're shoplifting and wants to pilfer through your property to make super sure isn't annoying as fuck to deal with? What if you had a bad day on top of it.
Employee 1 was a douchebag, Customer was a dick and possibly committed something like assault, Employee 2 committed goddamn assault for sure
Who escalated what, it's a chain of god damn stupid reactions all the way from beginning to end.
They can't cancel your membership if you leave. They need to get a manager to process that. If you're "in a rush", it will take longer for that to happen than to check the receipt for $100 worth of Kirkland stuff.
Let's wait till the video actual court case to assign blame to the employees that were unfortunate enough to encounter this douchenozzle. All we have to go on right now is the word of his complaint.
when I bought my subaru, I had a friend who worked at a dealership tell me what the cheapest he could sell it to me was
and then I emailed a local place and was like, my friend can sell it to me for X, can you also sell it to me for that price
and they did the end
If I was buying a new car I would almost certainly use that truecar -- the prices seem pretty reasonable and if it actually works it seems way easier.
Timely story!
On Saturday we did this. My wife got a new Rav4 and I used truecar to get a good price point. I did this 2 1/2 years ago when I got a new camry and ended up like 4K under the official price and 2K under the "inventory" BS price they make you think is a deal. I brought up a certified offer 750 below what this guy offered and he would not budge at all. But my wife liked him (he had a new baby) and didn't want to drive from Braintree to Norwood so....
ed
It was super frustrating because I think if it was my car I'd have gotten it for 1K less but she didn't want to haggle so much that she wouldn't even do the OK, well sorry we couldn't make a deal move.
I find this amusing: Man won't show Costco Wholesale staff receipt, suffers broken leg, sues for $670,000 (Link)
Article under spoiler:
A man who claims he was pushing his shopping cart out of a Portland Costco Wholesale warehouse when he was detained because he wouldn’t stop and show his receipt is suing the store for $670,000.
Timothy Walls emerged from the Jan. 28, 2013, encounter with a leg broken in multiple places, according to his lawsuit, filed last week in Multnomah County Circuit Court. According to one of Walls’ attorneys, Walls didn’t believe the store had a right to detain him based upon their practice of checking receipts at the door.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
Walls had just bought $102.66 worth of goods from the 4849 N.E. 138th Ave. Costco location, and as he was leaving the store an employee grabbed and held onto his shopping cart and told him he couldn’t leave, according to the suit.
Words were exchanged, and when the employee wouldn’t let go, Walls grabbed him by the shirt collar and pulled him away from his shopping cart, the suit states.
That’s when another employee used “a martial arts type strike with his leg” that the employee had learned while training with the U.S. Armed Forces, the suit states.
Walls contends he was already outside the store and in the breezeway. Costco contends he hadn’t left the store yet.
Bill Stockton, a Hillsboro attorney representing Costco, declined to comment. But in a motion he filed about the incident, he wrote that Walls' injuries were “the sole and direct result of (his) own conduct, fault, and negligence” because Walls is the one who attacked the employees.
Clayton Morrison, a Beaverton attorney representing Walls, said employees didn’t have reasonable suspicion that Walls was stealing and so they didn’t have a right to take hold of the merchandise Walls' lawfully bought. Morrison said the consequences for failing to abide by the store’s blanket policy of checking receipts shouldn’t be detainment -- it should be canceling the customer’s membership.
“The central issue in the case is ... ’What can Costco lawfully do? ... Can they actually stop you and take your property from you?’ Our answer is ‘No,’” Morrison said.
Walls is seeking $150,000 for past and future medical expenses, $20,000 for lost wages and $500,000 for pain and suffering.
I do notice that the suit doesn't go into what "grabbing the employee by the shirt collar and pulling him away from his shopping cart entails." I'm guessing it was an aggressive enough action by the shopper that caused another employee to come to the grabbed employee's defense.
The customer sounds like a real asshole.
Maybe. But employees can't stop you at the door if you don't want to be stopped.
Costco exists in a weird area where you have agreed to stop at the door by virtue of paying a membership fee to shop there.
wat. Surely that's just to get inside.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
It doesn't matter if you have signs on the wall and membership cards, unless you're police, you can't detain someone if they don't want to stop.
i'm pretty sure this is an assertion you just made up
No, we did all this arguin' a few years back when that one employee dude tackled a shopper in the parking lot of ... some store ... somewhere.
oh ok then
You don't HAVE to shop at CostCo. If you don't like the way they do business, shop elsewhere. Dont prance around like a special snowflake guarding the privacy of your receipt while shouting "I KNOW MY RIGHTS"
Like lawyer dude said, the correct response is "then we will cancel your membership".
We all agree that people will be dicks about shit like this, but can you honestly not say you haven't been in a rush before and getting stopped by some person who thinks you're shoplifting and wants to pilfer through your property to make super sure isn't annoying as fuck to deal with? What if you had a bad day on top of it.
Employee 1 was a douchebag, Customer was a dick and possibly committed something like assault, Employee 2 committed goddamn assault for sure
Who escalated what, it's a chain of god damn stupid reactions all the way from beginning to end.
I actually think Costco may have reasonable belief/probable cause that the person trying to exit the store with a cart full of merchandise AND who refuses to show his/her receipt may be a shoplifter. Especially when all members have agreed to show their receipt for inspection upon exit.
If they have reasonable belief/probable cause, they have every right to detain a customer.
I find this amusing: Man won't show Costco Wholesale staff receipt, suffers broken leg, sues for $670,000 (Link)
Article under spoiler:
A man who claims he was pushing his shopping cart out of a Portland Costco Wholesale warehouse when he was detained because he wouldn’t stop and show his receipt is suing the store for $670,000.
Timothy Walls emerged from the Jan. 28, 2013, encounter with a leg broken in multiple places, according to his lawsuit, filed last week in Multnomah County Circuit Court. According to one of Walls’ attorneys, Walls didn’t believe the store had a right to detain him based upon their practice of checking receipts at the door.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
Walls had just bought $102.66 worth of goods from the 4849 N.E. 138th Ave. Costco location, and as he was leaving the store an employee grabbed and held onto his shopping cart and told him he couldn’t leave, according to the suit.
Words were exchanged, and when the employee wouldn’t let go, Walls grabbed him by the shirt collar and pulled him away from his shopping cart, the suit states.
That’s when another employee used “a martial arts type strike with his leg” that the employee had learned while training with the U.S. Armed Forces, the suit states.
Walls contends he was already outside the store and in the breezeway. Costco contends he hadn’t left the store yet.
Bill Stockton, a Hillsboro attorney representing Costco, declined to comment. But in a motion he filed about the incident, he wrote that Walls' injuries were “the sole and direct result of (his) own conduct, fault, and negligence” because Walls is the one who attacked the employees.
Clayton Morrison, a Beaverton attorney representing Walls, said employees didn’t have reasonable suspicion that Walls was stealing and so they didn’t have a right to take hold of the merchandise Walls' lawfully bought. Morrison said the consequences for failing to abide by the store’s blanket policy of checking receipts shouldn’t be detainment -- it should be canceling the customer’s membership.
“The central issue in the case is ... ’What can Costco lawfully do? ... Can they actually stop you and take your property from you?’ Our answer is ‘No,’” Morrison said.
Walls is seeking $150,000 for past and future medical expenses, $20,000 for lost wages and $500,000 for pain and suffering.
I do notice that the suit doesn't go into what "grabbing the employee by the shirt collar and pulling him away from his shopping cart entails." I'm guessing it was an aggressive enough action by the shopper that caused another employee to come to the grabbed employee's defense.
The customer sounds like a real asshole.
Maybe. But employees can't stop you at the door if you don't want to be stopped.
Costco exists in a weird area where you have agreed to stop at the door by virtue of paying a membership fee to shop there.
wat. Surely that's just to get inside.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
It doesn't matter if you have signs on the wall and membership cards, unless you're police, you can't detain someone if they don't want to stop.
i'm pretty sure this is an assertion you just made up
No, we did all this arguin' a few years back when that one employee dude tackled a shopper in the parking lot of ... some store ... somewhere.
oh ok then
You don't HAVE to shop at CostCo. If you don't like the way they do business, shop elsewhere. Dont prance around like a special snowflake guarding the privacy of your receipt while shouting "I KNOW MY RIGHTS"
Like lawyer dude said, the correct response is "then we will cancel your membership".
We all agree that people will be dicks about shit like this, but can you honestly not say you haven't been in a rush before and getting stopped by some person who thinks you're shoplifting and wants to pilfer through your property to make super sure isn't annoying as fuck to deal with? What if you had a bad day on top of it.
Employee 1 was a douchebag, Customer was a dick and possibly committed something like assault, Employee 2 committed goddamn assault for sure
Who escalated what, it's a chain of god damn stupid reactions all the way from beginning to end.
i'm not sure "then we will cancel your membership" is really an adequate response to someone assaulting your employees and attempting to run off with the merchandise they wouldn't allow you to inspect upon exiting, as per their membership agreement
Are you implying they stole? And it's allegedly assault.
We don't know.
What probably happened was:
Employee 1: I need to inspect your cart, please give me your receipt.
Customer: Sorry I'm in a rush, I don't have time to do this.
Employee 1: I'm sorry I can't let you leave then *grabs cart*
Customer: Get your god damned hands off the cart *pushes employee away*
Employee 1: Augh!
Batman: HIIYYAAAAAAAAAAH
Customer: OW MY FUCKING LEG YOU BROKE IT
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
One thing to note, most states have laws covering "investigative detentions" for LP staff. It gives them an extra degree of shielding against false arrest claims.
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I have chased shoplifters before.
Sure the company policy didn't support that.
But it wasn't about the company. Fuck that company. It was about not letting scumbags just get away with being scumbags.
with, however, they can, rather obviously as making a shopowner just watch while a shoplifter waltzes out with his stock would be absurd.
What are you supposed to do besides take down their license plate number and call the police? Taze them?
We're getting into the detailed bits here and where exactly the lines go I can't say anything about - won't be the same from country to country or state to state
but, something inbetween "nothing" and "inflicting pain and/or injury", like, say, physically restraining them without using undue force. As is the case here.
Kung-fu strikes to his knee is undue force!
Since this guy didn't steal anything, I can see this jerk customer quietly getting a settlement from Costco.
with, however, they can, rather obviously as making a shopowner just watch while a shoplifter waltzes out with his stock would be absurd.
What are you supposed to do besides take down their license plate number and call the police? Taze them?
We're getting into the detailed bits here and where exactly the lines go I can't say anything about - won't be the same from country to country or state to state
but, something inbetween "nothing" and "inflicting pain and/or injury", like, say, physically restraining them without using undue force. As is the case here.
Kung-fu strikes to his knee is undue force!
Since this guy didn't steal anything, I can see this jerk customer quietly getting a settlement from Costco.
Well, it depends on how physical the customer was with employee #1 because employee #2 was likely coming to #1's defense.
Personally, I'm willing to bet the customer got pretty damn physical with employee #1 and it's not like he describes it in his complaint.
LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
Door checkers aren't usually actual LP staff though it seems like. There's also an argument to be made that if he was prevented from leaving the store, anything HE did was self defense, especially if it was grabbing or pushing.
when I was a retail monkey at the mall on multiple occasions I saw groups of people trying to work together to steal a coat (it was some brand of big puffy coat that was popular at the time) that cost about $180. But when one of em would take off the security device (so another could later take it) we would just put it back on and they'd start over.
those guys (and gals) spent so much time on this that if they had been working that day earning minimum wage they could have bought the damn coat
Oh great, Steam added personalized game recommendations on the front page of its store. Now I have to look at all of them to find out what the robots think of me.
0
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
They really should avoid attaching a person's name to a game unless it is Sid Meier.
his current kickstarted project Shroud of the Avatar is coming along very nicely. I chipped in at the basic level and have been following along. They've done a bunch of alpha / beta weekends and community tests and such.
man richard garriott has a pretty horrible track record post-ultima 8 or so.
people seemed to love Ultima Online. Not my thing but still I wouldn't call that terrible.
fair enough i guess. the proto-eq games were at the very least interesting from a social point of view.
still i don't think that anything that was interesting about UO had much to do with garriott. his thing was mostly the mythos and world-building stuff in ultima. the virtues and all the heavy-handed metaphors (that - full disclosure - i loved back when i was 12).
ultima XI looked interesting but then was a fucking mess. tabula rasa looked so interesting (i think i was following it back when it was being called project darwin or something) but then underdelivered. there was some FTP ultima browser game bar-filler that was a mess.
i'd love for some great dev to get their teeth into the ultima IP for sentimental reasons but i think it's done.
0
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
i am being cheeky but in all seriousness i think that retailers who want to inspect your receipt are fucking bullshit
CostCo has low prices and pays their employees a living wage. The last time I checked their shrink rate was miles below the competition. You agree to show your membership at the door, the register, and your receipt at the exit. If you feel this disproportianately infringes upon your liberty, there are many other retailers that are less intrusive and you don't need to sign a membership agreement to use them.
that being said i have never just walked past a ticket checker because i dont really feel like getting followed into the parking lot and sucked into an altercation with some dude who thinks that checking tickets is a sacred duty
+2
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd love to join you and pay your monthly fee but when you are charging me $100 to sign up and then making me pay first and last months dues when I sign up you are pricing me out of joining at all.
Thanks,
stevemarks44
if you join a gym you should go in knowing you're basically asking a mafia don for a favor
Hehe, my gym has no sign up fee or contract.
Where do you use?
PureGym up at the Fox n' Goose. It's £18.99 a month, open 24/7 and has a ton of equipment but no pool sadly. Compare to Bannatynes in town. >.>
Oh brilliant
0
ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Door checkers aren't usually actual LP staff though it seems like. There's also an argument to be made that if he was prevented from leaving the store, anything HE did was self defense, especially if it was grabbing or pushing.
Door Checkers generally aren't LP staff but they would generally still be covered if the company policy is to confront shoplifters. The investigative detention rules aren't limited to LP staff.
0
LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
Costco doesn't have a reasonable belief. Not really. Sometimes that line to check receipts gets backed up worse than the god damned line to get checked out. I've WANTED to blow past everyone before countless times. It's infuriating sometimes.
If this was some other organization that wanted to remotely spy on your webcams on leased laptops to make sure you aren't doing illegal shit with them, you'd all be up in arms about this shit.
You guys waffle your positions on the weirdest shit based on emotional responses.
The dude in H/A who had someone fence hop is the same thing.
Since he was kind of pissed off someone violated his privacy and tried to report it, people thought he was dick because it was somewhat of a nuclear response (albeit perfectly acceptable response). But if his dog was the one that bit the kid, the tune would completely change because that poor dog and they shouldn't have jumped his fence, what a fucking invasion of privacy and disregard for personal property!
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
So, I don't feel a need for more content in Destiny. I will want for some more space, eventually, but I like the balance of size and fidelity in the world of Destiny. I enjoy the space, its quality, and slowly becoming more familiar with every little bit of that world. I want more content over time - at this level of detail, identity, and intentional design.
I'm fairly positive there exists no law about producing a receipt if you're suspected of shoplifting.
I'm also extremely positive there are many laws that say a great deal many things about unlawfully detaining someone on top of that.
i'm fairly positive we are stretching the definition of detention here quite a bit in order to fit the argument that costco does not have a right to detain its customers
This is why you can be held liable for a citizens arrest. This is why you should never perform a citizens arrest with someone uncooperative with you.
Shit will never work out for you.
also yes this is true for pretty much every legislation more or less
I find this amusing: Man won't show Costco Wholesale staff receipt, suffers broken leg, sues for $670,000 (Link)
Article under spoiler:
A man who claims he was pushing his shopping cart out of a Portland Costco Wholesale warehouse when he was detained because he wouldn’t stop and show his receipt is suing the store for $670,000.
Timothy Walls emerged from the Jan. 28, 2013, encounter with a leg broken in multiple places, according to his lawsuit, filed last week in Multnomah County Circuit Court. According to one of Walls’ attorneys, Walls didn’t believe the store had a right to detain him based upon their practice of checking receipts at the door.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
Walls had just bought $102.66 worth of goods from the 4849 N.E. 138th Ave. Costco location, and as he was leaving the store an employee grabbed and held onto his shopping cart and told him he couldn’t leave, according to the suit.
Words were exchanged, and when the employee wouldn’t let go, Walls grabbed him by the shirt collar and pulled him away from his shopping cart, the suit states.
That’s when another employee used “a martial arts type strike with his leg” that the employee had learned while training with the U.S. Armed Forces, the suit states.
Walls contends he was already outside the store and in the breezeway. Costco contends he hadn’t left the store yet.
Bill Stockton, a Hillsboro attorney representing Costco, declined to comment. But in a motion he filed about the incident, he wrote that Walls' injuries were “the sole and direct result of (his) own conduct, fault, and negligence” because Walls is the one who attacked the employees.
Clayton Morrison, a Beaverton attorney representing Walls, said employees didn’t have reasonable suspicion that Walls was stealing and so they didn’t have a right to take hold of the merchandise Walls' lawfully bought. Morrison said the consequences for failing to abide by the store’s blanket policy of checking receipts shouldn’t be detainment -- it should be canceling the customer’s membership.
“The central issue in the case is ... ’What can Costco lawfully do? ... Can they actually stop you and take your property from you?’ Our answer is ‘No,’” Morrison said.
Walls is seeking $150,000 for past and future medical expenses, $20,000 for lost wages and $500,000 for pain and suffering.
I do notice that the suit doesn't go into what "grabbing the employee by the shirt collar and pulling him away from his shopping cart entails." I'm guessing it was an aggressive enough action by the shopper that caused another employee to come to the grabbed employee's defense.
The customer sounds like a real asshole.
Maybe. But employees can't stop you at the door if you don't want to be stopped.
Costco exists in a weird area where you have agreed to stop at the door by virtue of paying a membership fee to shop there.
wat. Surely that's just to get inside.
The policy states: “To ensure that all members are correctly charged for the merchandise purchased, all receipts and merchandise will be inspected as you leave the warehouse.”
It doesn't matter if you have signs on the wall and membership cards, unless you're police, you can't detain someone if they don't want to stop.
i'm pretty sure this is an assertion you just made up
No, we did all this arguin' a few years back when that one employee dude tackled a shopper in the parking lot of ... some store ... somewhere.
oh ok then
You don't HAVE to shop at CostCo. If you don't like the way they do business, shop elsewhere. Dont prance around like a special snowflake guarding the privacy of your receipt while shouting "I KNOW MY RIGHTS"
Like lawyer dude said, the correct response is "then we will cancel your membership".
We all agree that people will be dicks about shit like this, but can you honestly not say you haven't been in a rush before and getting stopped by some person who thinks you're shoplifting and wants to pilfer through your property to make super sure isn't annoying as fuck to deal with? What if you had a bad day on top of it.
Employee 1 was a douchebag, Customer was a dick and possibly committed something like assault, Employee 2 committed goddamn assault for sure
Who escalated what, it's a chain of god damn stupid reactions all the way from beginning to end.
i'm not sure "then we will cancel your membership" is really an adequate response to someone assaulting your employees and attempting to run off with the merchandise they wouldn't allow you to inspect upon exiting, as per their membership agreement
Are you implying they stole? And it's allegedly assault.
We don't know.
What probably happened was:
Employee 1: I need to inspect your cart, please give me your receipt.
Customer: Sorry I'm in a rush, I don't have time to do this.
Employee 1: I'm sorry I can't let you leave then *grabs cart*
Customer: Get your god damned hands off the cart *pushes employee away*
Employee 1: Augh!
Batman: HIIYYAAAAAAAAAAH
Customer: OW MY FUCKING LEG YOU BROKE IT
I think we can all agree that whatever is found out afterwards the appropriate response from the manager, at the meeting about this, opens with a long, long pause with eyes shut, then a long, long sigh.
They really should avoid attaching a person's name to a game unless it is Sid Meier.
his current kickstarted project Shroud of the Avatar is coming along very nicely. I chipped in at the basic level and have been following along. They've done a bunch of alpha / beta weekends and community tests and such.
man richard garriott has a pretty horrible track record post-ultima 8 or so.
people seemed to love Ultima Online. Not my thing but still I wouldn't call that terrible.
fair enough i guess. the proto-eq games were at the very least interesting from a social point of view.
still i don't think that anything that was interesting about UO had much to do with garriott. his thing was mostly the mythos and world-building stuff in ultima. the virtues and all the heavy-handed metaphors (that - full disclosure - i loved back when i was 12).
ultima XI looked interesting but then was a fucking mess. tabula rasa looked so interesting (i think i was following it back when it was being called project darwin or something) but then underdelivered. there was some FTP ultima browser game bar-filler that was a mess.
i'd love for some great dev to get their teeth into the ultima IP for sentimental reasons but i think it's done.
his current project is free of EA. It doesn't have the Ultima IP but is very much Garriot-Ultima. I don't think it'll be the best thing evaaaar but I am liking what I have seen. They are doing an excellent job of keeping their backers up to date on exactly where they are in development and showing in-game stuff early.
i am being cheeky but in all seriousness i think that retailers who want to inspect your receipt are fucking bullshit
CostCo has low prices and pays their employees a living wage. The last time I checked their shrink rate was miles below the competition. You agree to show your membership at the door, the register, and your receipt at the exit. If you feel this disproportianately infringes upon your liberty, there are many other retailers that are less intrusive and you don't need to sign a membership agreement to use them.
for a membership store i can accept that it is their right to revoke my membership if i refuse to play by the rules - that doesn't change my stance that i disagree with them on that point
stores like fry's who have no membership and still do ticket checking can suck a bag of dicks
Costco doesn't have a reasonable belief. Not really. Sometimes that line to check receipts gets backed up worse than the god damned line to get checked out. I've WANTED to blow past everyone before countless times. It's infuriating sometimes.
You walk out of Costco with nothing in your hands and they won't ask you for your receipt nor will they detain you because there is no reasonable belief.
You walk out of Costco with a cart of merchandise and refuse to show your receipt. I'd bet money they have reasonable belief/probable cause.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited September 2014
i don't think a company spying on me in my own home through a webcam and a company asking to check my cart against my receipt when i leave their store are within miles of the same ballpark
Chanus on
Allegedly a voice of reason.
+5
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratorMod Emeritus
Posts
well what
i'm not sure "then we will cancel your membership" is really an adequate response to someone assaulting your employees and attempting to run off with the merchandise they wouldn't allow you to inspect upon exiting, as per their membership agreement
people seemed to love Ultima Online. Not my thing but still I wouldn't call that terrible.
Hehe, my gym has no sign up fee or contract.
1. No. They can't just stop you. You can be unreasonable and just leave if you want.
1a. But stores with memberships can revoke that membership
1b. Stores without memberships could certainly ban you for it
2. They can stop you if they have reasonable suspicion you stole something. This is a call made by loss prevention usually, not a door checker.
3. Pretty sure most stores have a policy against physical altercations with people, shoplifter or not.
When I go to sam's, I show my receipt because I don't care and I like my membership there.
When I go to fry's, I show my receipt but I glare daggers at the door checker because I am bound by no such agreement and they are real nazis about it.
So I see both sides
maybe you're okay with the store who you have just given money to defaulting to the assumption that you are stealing from them but i am an american and i will not allow my rights to be trampled upon by CommieCo
USA USA USA USA
yeah but you don't live in the greatest nation on the planet
We're getting into the detailed bits here and where exactly the lines go I can't say anything about - won't be the same from country to country or state to state
but, something inbetween "nothing" and "inflicting pain and/or injury", like, say, physically restraining them without using undue force. As is the case here.
to be fair literally everybody who played UO for more than a week cheated like hell to avoid the actual "gameplay" part
Where do you use?
They can't cancel your membership if you leave. They need to get a manager to process that. If you're "in a rush", it will take longer for that to happen than to check the receipt for $100 worth of Kirkland stuff.
Let's wait till the video actual court case to assign blame to the employees that were unfortunate enough to encounter this douchenozzle. All we have to go on right now is the word of his complaint.
Timely story!
On Saturday we did this. My wife got a new Rav4 and I used truecar to get a good price point. I did this 2 1/2 years ago when I got a new camry and ended up like 4K under the official price and 2K under the "inventory" BS price they make you think is a deal. I brought up a certified offer 750 below what this guy offered and he would not budge at all. But my wife liked him (he had a new baby) and didn't want to drive from Braintree to Norwood so....
ed
It was super frustrating because I think if it was my car I'd have gotten it for 1K less but she didn't want to haggle so much that she wouldn't even do the OK, well sorry we couldn't make a deal move.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I actually think Costco may have reasonable belief/probable cause that the person trying to exit the store with a cart full of merchandise AND who refuses to show his/her receipt may be a shoplifter. Especially when all members have agreed to show their receipt for inspection upon exit.
If they have reasonable belief/probable cause, they have every right to detain a customer.
Are you implying they stole? And it's allegedly assault.
We don't know.
What probably happened was:
Employee 1: I need to inspect your cart, please give me your receipt.
Customer: Sorry I'm in a rush, I don't have time to do this.
Employee 1: I'm sorry I can't let you leave then *grabs cart*
Customer: Get your god damned hands off the cart *pushes employee away*
Employee 1: Augh!
Batman: HIIYYAAAAAAAAAAH
Customer: OW MY FUCKING LEG YOU BROKE IT
Sure the company policy didn't support that.
But it wasn't about the company. Fuck that company. It was about not letting scumbags just get away with being scumbags.
Kung-fu strikes to his knee is undue force!
Since this guy didn't steal anything, I can see this jerk customer quietly getting a settlement from Costco.
Well, it depends on how physical the customer was with employee #1 because employee #2 was likely coming to #1's defense.
Personally, I'm willing to bet the customer got pretty damn physical with employee #1 and it's not like he describes it in his complaint.
lol
those guys (and gals) spent so much time on this that if they had been working that day earning minimum wage they could have bought the damn coat
fair enough i guess. the proto-eq games were at the very least interesting from a social point of view.
still i don't think that anything that was interesting about UO had much to do with garriott. his thing was mostly the mythos and world-building stuff in ultima. the virtues and all the heavy-handed metaphors (that - full disclosure - i loved back when i was 12).
ultima XI looked interesting but then was a fucking mess. tabula rasa looked so interesting (i think i was following it back when it was being called project darwin or something) but then underdelivered. there was some FTP ultima browser game bar-filler that was a mess.
i'd love for some great dev to get their teeth into the ultima IP for sentimental reasons but i think it's done.
CostCo has low prices and pays their employees a living wage. The last time I checked their shrink rate was miles below the competition. You agree to show your membership at the door, the register, and your receipt at the exit. If you feel this disproportianately infringes upon your liberty, there are many other retailers that are less intrusive and you don't need to sign a membership agreement to use them.
PureGym up at the Fox n' Goose. It's £18.99 a month, open 24/7 and has a ton of equipment but no pool sadly. Compare to Bannatynes in town. >.>
Door Checkers generally aren't LP staff but they would generally still be covered if the company policy is to confront shoplifters. The investigative detention rules aren't limited to LP staff.
You guys waffle your positions on the weirdest shit based on emotional responses.
The dude in H/A who had someone fence hop is the same thing.
Since he was kind of pissed off someone violated his privacy and tried to report it, people thought he was dick because it was somewhat of a nuclear response (albeit perfectly acceptable response). But if his dog was the one that bit the kid, the tune would completely change because that poor dog and they shouldn't have jumped his fence, what a fucking invasion of privacy and disregard for personal property!
also yes this is true for pretty much every legislation more or less
I think we can all agree that whatever is found out afterwards the appropriate response from the manager, at the meeting about this, opens with a long, long pause with eyes shut, then a long, long sigh.
his current project is free of EA. It doesn't have the Ultima IP but is very much Garriot-Ultima. I don't think it'll be the best thing evaaaar but I am liking what I have seen. They are doing an excellent job of keeping their backers up to date on exactly where they are in development and showing in-game stuff early.
for a membership store i can accept that it is their right to revoke my membership if i refuse to play by the rules - that doesn't change my stance that i disagree with them on that point
stores like fry's who have no membership and still do ticket checking can suck a bag of dicks
You walk out of Costco with nothing in your hands and they won't ask you for your receipt nor will they detain you because there is no reasonable belief.
You walk out of Costco with a cart of merchandise and refuse to show your receipt. I'd bet money they have reasonable belief/probable cause.
this is horrible
where did this happen?
ugh
goddamn taking the high road etc etc and being responsible