[PA Comic] Wednesday, October 15, 2014 - Star Gourds

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters was warned for this.

Aegeri wrote: »

Your constant attempts to martyr those knowingly attaching themselves to a hate campaign is getting rather tiresome and this isn't twitter: Nobody is buying this nonsense here.

Actually I believe you'll find the vast majority of lurkers are ashamed at the rotten quality of decency displayed in this thread so far, especially by you; indeed I registered just to point out my disgust for someone who claims to be the better person whilst s/he continues to hurl personal abuse and claims of dishonesty towards specific posters, including the above quote. And who claims to be fighting prejudice by stating that even decent people on one side of the argument must be dupes, and individuals are outright monsters.

But let's deal with the actual, obvious facts, shall we?

Gaming media has always been corrupt; I direct you towards Amiga Power back in 1995 running articles on the shameless tactics used to attempt to bribe them back then. Or you can read Stuart Campbell's articles about even earlier corruption in the case of the ZX Spectrum media..

In those pre-internet days however, the awareness of this wouldn't seep far, and the industry was largely able to get away with it. Today however the digital word has begun to destroy almost all careers associated with creative writing. I'm not even going to bother to sourcing this next part, because it should be self evident; nowadays most media is either content aggregates (9gag, Reddit), relies upon claims of "gaining exposure" to source free content (Huffington Post), or deliberate click bait generators in order to drive net traffic.... and almost always, some unholy combination of the three, which has led to major news sources now quoting ill informed or over passionate idiots on Twitter instead of paying for basic research and reporting.

In such a market, Grifters with networking ability thrive; saying offensive, controversial, badly researched but appealing to prejudice clickbait headlines that get people riled up and donating money. The original of the internet age being Ann Coulter using clicks to sell her books, but today it's people like Sarah Palin, using claims of Obama being a Muslim Communist Sleeper Agent on Fox News to con rubes out of millions of dollars via her Personal PACs, organisations that aren't required to spend even a fraction of their income on their claimed cause.

Or as Matt Labash famously put it describing just how deliberate it is, back in 2003;

JournalismJobs.com: Why have conservative media outlets like The Weekly Standard and Fox News Channel become more popular in the past few years?

Matt Labash: Because they feed the rage. We bring the pain to the liberal media. I say that mockingly, but it's true somewhat. We come with a strong point of view and people like point of view journalism. While all these hand-wringing Freedom Forum types talk about objectivity, the conservative media likes to rap the liberal media on the knuckles for not being objective. We've created this cottage industry in which it pays to be un-objective. It pays to be subjective as much as possible. It's a great way to have your cake and eat it too. Criticize other people for not being objective. Be as subjective as you want. It's a great little racket. I'm glad we found it actually.

The liberal media has sunk to the same level to try and stay afloat too; Any media that wants to survive has too, and because controversial white women sell clicks. Everyday Sexism Project, Jezebel, Gawker Media... it's all white, media friendly, shallow unscientific anger generation. But if you actually look at academic, sharp end feminism, not this ego-commentary trip here, there's considerable debate within the movement that 4th Wave Feminism is too white, middle class, and image obsessed.. It's not a revolution; it's a lot of heavily networked media darlings relying upon backing each other up to keep the few career spots still left being offered to each other.

And people like Anita Sarkeesian are doing the same thing too.

That's really where the anger against you supposed "Feminists" is coming from; She can repeat the language and memes of the modern media; of course she can, like Sarah "Lock and Reload" Palin she's spent just enough time to learning what you all say to each other, in order to appear convincing... but just where did all that money for her YouTube videos go? Do any of you have the honesty to address that, and admit you're being grifted too?

Of course, if like in this shameful thread, you drive out all opposing voices, obviously you won't believe that; after all, everyone you talk too, all four of you ghastly posters here for instance, agree Sarkeesian is a true Feminist. Because the other side of the "stir up the masses" media, with it's handy little Comment forums, is that eventually every community gets dominated by it's most obsessional or outraged members, and slowly the Overton Window drifts to the extremes.... Who remembers how certain the Democrats were in 2004 that John Kerry was going to win election? Who here was following the Scottish Independence referendum recently, and how the Yes campaign were certain the polls were wrong. Of course they were, no one they knew said they'd vote No. Everyone they gave a Blue Book too took it willingly. But the polls were not wrong. They'd simply driven out all the dissenting voices, and slowly coalesced around the most optimistic, commonly held position. And that position was wrong.

So it is with "Fourth Wave Feminism". You are all talking to yourself, and doing nothing but talking and persuading yourself it's a movement. It's not. And instead of being rational, because that would be abandoning your sisters or at least the right to claim to defend them on air, and victim blaming, and all of those handy little loopholes that the manipulative and selfish slight through so easy wouldn't it, you become appalling parodies of any meaningful politics.

Indeed, I'd put my own getting arrested, running petitions, speaking to the local Government in session activist career against any of you forum warriors; and I'm ashamed you are so easily misdirected into destroying your own movement by people who are addicted to the fame and the money. Seriously, apart from feeding the ever increasingly extreme media, what have any of you actually done?

Worked a homeless shelter?

Told your local Mayor to his face he was lying about budget cuts?

Maybe one or two of you possibly have handed the odd leaflet out.... and here's the final irony; do the people you might have worked with talk in anywhere near this idiotic, simplistic, enraged way? No they don't. Because anyone who does soon finds they have no allies; oh over here on the true humanitarian Left, there's always one or two who do it all the same. And again destroy the wider movement by being too inhuman, rigid, judgemental instead of getting on with whoever they can to get some good done; the Right and the evil have after all always found it easier to walk in locked goose-step. Supposed revolutionaries always seem more interested in the circular firing squad.

But here's the truth from the actual political front line; apart from smearing gamers and anyone else who despairs at the modern cess pit media, virtually no one actually likes this Twitterati "feminism". Most feminists in the US are more concerned with actual assaults upon their reproductive rights, and in the UK with austerity cuts which are devastating the support networks the vulnerable rely upon, than this petty "oh isn't our shared gossip just so FRIGHTFULLY important" nonsense.

So shut up. You are not on the side of angels. You're not defending women. You're not good people... you're using outrage to try and earn the label of "good people" instead of actually doing something in the real world which helps actual women; you're white knighting one or two individual women, long since compromised by a media which hates you, who long since snuggled up to a corporatist society that seeks to alienate and dis-empower you all, individual by individual.

And in the meantime, you make even Penny Arcade's forums insufferable with your naive, self obsessed rage. And I suspect you know it, which is why the "two sides of a coin" argument upset you so much... Because you are the mirror image of the ignorant, enraged rubes on the other side. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Go and do something practical in the real world. You're in the US? Many women currently need escorts into abortion clinics, because they're being physically assaulted (and doctors outright killed now)... go ahead and sign up to take them in safely. Just don't forget to give them your oh so important incandescence when you're walking them in; nothing real women need when they're feeling vulnerable than ill informed anger which makes them feel even less safe, just because it makes you feel better.

Needless to say, the people who do actually do front line work don't do that. So... shut... up.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Cambiata

So your rant there has
- the history of corruption in gaming
Pointless because no one is disputing there's corruption in gaming. What we're disputing is that gamergate cares about that topic. Because many of the targets of the gamergate hate engine have been instrumental in exposing corruption, like the Shadows of Mordor story that gamergate hasn't pushed at all and doesn't actually care about.

- some people are saying things you don't like and/or have politics you don't like
Ok. What does this have to do with corruption?

Cambiata

Oh the "where did the money go" on Anita Sarkeesian. It's funny how her critics care so much about that easily disproven "scandal", but never talk about how the Tropes vs Men in Video Games guys never gave that money to charity like they said they were gonna.

Edit: Also, the money I gave to Sakeesian is *my* money. My questions are 1) Is she still making videos? 2) is she still doing critiques of video games? Since both answers are still "yes", my money is well spent.

MumboJumbo

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters wrote: »

Actually I believe you'll find the vast majority of lurkers are ashamed at the rotten quality of decency displayed in this thread so far...

As a lurker, I'm actually really glad these forums exist and the only thing gamergate has made me ashamed of are the depressingly large number of "gamers" waging this harassment campaign and all the "both sides bad" moderates who enable and prolong it.

So a big thank you to everyone who makes this community great and gives me hope that gaming may eventually mature into a better and more accessible entertainment medium.

Alistair Hutton

How do you white knight someone who repeatedly gets death threats?

"People shouldn't make death threats"
"You're such a White Knight SJW"

Hahnsoo1

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters wrote: »

Actually I believe you'll find the vast majority of lurkers are ashamed at the rotten quality of decency displayed in this thread so far, especially by you; indeed I registered just to point out my disgust for someone who claims to be the better person whilst s/he continues to hurl personal abuse and claims of dishonesty towards specific posters, including the above quote. And who claims to be fighting prejudice by stating that even decent people on one side of the argument must be dupes, and individuals are outright monsters.

Actually, I'm ashamed that folks like you are signing up on these forums simply to be Gamergate apologists, which you do very poorly, by the way. Lots of false equivalency (Political callouts to conservative/liberal media, Sarah Palin, etc.), name-calling ("all four of you ghastly posters", "your naive, self obsessed rage."), and the use of the "there's considerable debate" card when it comes to feminism (what is this, climate change? Also, what happened to "ethics"? Oh yeah. That.). I won't take the time to pick apart your post (in the usual "(quote)(/quote)" fashion), because there's really no content there that is actually relevant to the subject at hand. If you really are talking about "jounalistic ethics in video gaming", then congratulations on campaigning on the most luxurious "cause" you could possibly find on the internet.

The best (by best, I mean worst) part of the whole Gamergate thing is that they are trying to form an argument that it's "us versus them" and that there are two sides. When the reality is that it's a small handful of people who are really loud on twitter mixed in with a smaller group of hateful trolls sending death threats who are up against literally everyone else in the world (this includes the people who don't really care, which is 90% of the population out there).

I propose a drinking game. Every time someone says "sanctimonious" or "insufferable", we all take a shot. *grin*

Also, a lot of us in the forums actually support those "four posters" you are singling out. They have lived in this community with us for years, and we respect them. We don't respect you, or your little cause.

* Edit: And really, the populist card? The decency argument? You could come off as more legitimate and well-spoken if you don't stoop to those.

mRahmani

MumboJumbo wrote: »

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters wrote: »

Actually I believe you'll find the vast majority of lurkers are ashamed at the rotten quality of decency displayed in this thread so far...

As a lurker, I'm actually really glad these forums exist and the only thing gamergate has made me ashamed of are the depressingly large number of "gamers" waging this harassment campaign and all the "both sides bad" moderates who enable and prolong it.

So a big thank you to everyone who makes this community great and gives me hope that gaming may eventually mature into a better and more accessible entertainment medium.

I would also like to chip in here as another lurker who is in this thread precisely because it gives me some hope to see the disgust toward the appalling actions of the GG trolls. The only thing I'm ashamed of is the number of teh hardcorez bro-gamers perpetuating this "no girls in the clubhouse" BS.

Madfizzicks

Throw me on the list of lurkers that find GG monstrous and GG apologists douchey.

UreshiiAkuma

Chalk me up as another lurker of these sort of threads on PA that is incredibly thankful for them and the community that supports them with reasoned and documented facts and information. I've gone from someone whose immediate reaction would be to get extremely defensive against critiques against games to realizing "hey, these things are really problematic, and hurt the industry I love. I'm not a bad person for enjoying games with problematic elements, but it can only serve to strengthen the industry as a whole to be aware of and discuss, and address the problematic elements."

Now back to lurk mode ...

Espe

Created this account in 2011. (Been a fan of penny-arcade from the beginning. The natural way Gabe and Tycho interacted, especially their unfiltered language, spoke to me when I was younger. It was like watching a conversation between two of my friends at school.) This is my first post.

Kenninator wrote: »

EDIT: Wanted to mention. I realize Gamer Gate started based on the Zoe Quinn fiasco. She isn't the focus, the hashtag will speak for itself.

You say you realize how this all started, but it doesn't seem like you really do. #FiveGuysAndFries. That is where this all started and ended. If you want to rally people around a cause, you don't start with doxing and slut-shaming by a jilted ex. Just mentioning #FiveGuysAndFries can get you banned from pro-GG forums like mmo-c. Why, I wonder, would that be if this is all about ethics in gaming journalism?

The two types I see most often in pro-GG circle-jerk threads are the giddy misogynists who can barely contain themselves and the apologists who live in a state of willed ignorance about what the movement is actually about. The people who associate with the movement tell me all I need to know about the movement itself.

I want to thank everyone here for not sitting down and staying quiet in the face of these vocal and unapologetic assholes. I also want to thank Tycho for having the courage, as usual, to put what he thinks into writing and for allowing us to see it.

ImpactWinter

Aegeri wrote: »

alcaron wrote: »

BOTH sides have fringe actors that make death threats (one just has the "media" behind them) both sides engage in bullying, both sides engage in doxxing.

I'm sick of both sides.

Ah the neutral "Both sides" argument, which is actually even more insidious and poisonous in many ways than the anti-women narrative that GamerGate tries to sell. This is because you're attempting to put a group of serial anti-female harassers, who have targets and agendas (Well, specific when it comes to attacking women) against what is "Everyone else". There really isn't a strict "Anti-GG" other than people who think their actions are deplorable and awful, which it turns out is probably quite a lot if the way all mainstream media, the general reaction from most developers and websites has been. There is no inherently organized force against GG until a hashtag for "StopGamerGate2014" was recently started. Trying to paint a both sides narrative is trying to paint a side that is attacking women and gatekeeping gaming as being equally as bad as those in many cases simply defending themselves.

Indeed, the morally bankrupt part of your entire posts implication is that victims are every bit as bad as those who harassed them in the first place. Sound like familiar rhetoric to you?

Let me give you an analogy to make it clear why this point of yours is genuinely offensive and asinine. Imagine you have just seen the gigantic death ray of the Death Star explode Alderaan into thousands of little pieces and as you watch the planet explode, you turn to your colleague Chip and say "I'm sure glad I wasn't responsible for blowing up that planet". Then you just go back to working on the Death Star like you do every day and whenever someone says "Didn't you help with blowing up that planet?" and you respond with "Man, I didn't blow up that planet, I just work on the Death Star. I don't like blowing up planets, I just work in the place where they do so." Eventually however the people whose planet you blew up get pretty pissed and they come to blow up the Death Star. As Skywalker is running down the trench in his X-Wing and lasers pound into various places on the Death Star, you turn to Chip with your final prophetic words "Well, after this vicious attack on us, we at least we know the Rebel alliance is just as bad as we are!"

The Rebel alliance were born out of the hostilities of the Empire in the first place in murdering them, oppressing them and doing shit like, you know, blowing up entire fucking planets. That some fringe Rebels may commit atrocities against the Empire, does not suddenly make the Rebels the equal of the Empire in being morally awful. The Empire is an entity with a known, stated agenda to attack and oppress the rebels (as GG is about attacking women in video games), while the Rebel Alliance is literally everyone else who just opposes the Empires generally heinous actions. Strictly speaking, where this analogy breaks down is not the core point - that there is no real "moral equivalence" to make your both sides narrative bullshit remotely coherent - but in that the Rebel Alliance is an actual tangible entity opposed to the Empire. One of the reasons GG has got so far and terrorized so many women out of games is because we didn't have a Rebel Alliance to stand up to them. We didn't have an organized side.

We left women like Jenn Frank, Mattie Brice and others to fight a war against vicious harassers by themselves and just like Alderaan they were obliterated by the fury and organization of their opponents (who rapidly cheered their victories in driving out these women, just so we're clear). I am ashamed of this. The gaming community should be ashamed of this. Major websites like Gamespot, IGN and others who sat by, watched and said nothing while this happened should be ashamed of this. There was no organized opposition or side to GamerGate, which is why they felt they dominated the field and were in the majority. It's why they were quickly able to achieve their main goal of making a toxic, hateful and fear filled atmosphere for women in games, because good people stood by and said nothing. The strategy was clear from many of these groups to let the GG group bitch themselves out and go away - but it failed.

We'll be recovering from the damage for years as a consequence and the gaming communities lack of tangible opposition is firmly to blame.

So remember that when you're trying to sell someone else on this bullshit "Both sides" narrative.

Forget just lurking, I stumbled here from Tycho's brief comments and registered just to +1 Aegeri's transcendent take down of the GG flock-at-large's abdication of responsibility for a literal terrorist element using them for cover. Doxxing is a criminal fucking act and if it results in a person fearing, even for a moment, for their actual safety everyone responsible and anyone who allows the information to propagate should burn.

It is not enough to claim not to agree with extremism while gathering to the same banner; if you truly disagree, do not just be the guy glad he didn't push the "kill" button on the super laser, you have to be the guy giving the rebels plans to blow the fucker up.

* Extended the Star Wars analogy to make the bitter pill go down easier! *
* edited again, because goddamn thats some good allegory! *

DivideByZero

What all these overdefensive GG posts sound like to me:

"I identify with #AlQaeda because there are real problems with U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East that cannot be ignored any longer. But don't lump me in with those suicide bombers, I don't agree with that and they don't speak for me. Now stop talking about all the suicide bombings already, I want to talk about foreign policy!"

It's like... listen to yourself bro. Your motives might be pure as the driven snow but if you want to be taken seriously by anyone outside your little circle you desperately need to rebrand, set some actual goals, and self-police the shitlords from your movement.

mRahmani

DivideByZero wrote: »

What all these overdefensive GG posts sound like to me:

"I identify with #AlQaeda because there are real problems with U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East that cannot be ignored any longer. But don't lump me in with those suicide bombers, I don't agree with that and they don't speak for me. Now stop talking about all the suicide bombings already, I want to talk about foreign policy!"

It's like... listen to yourself bro. Your motives might be pure as the driven snow but if you want to be taken seriously by anyone outside your little circle you desperately need to rebrand, set some actual goals, and self-police the shitlords from your movement.

Off-topic, but this is ironic and amusing to me as a Muslim gamer. I've been wondering if anyone out there would go, "Oh hey, so this is what it's like having a bunch of abusive shitbags set the tone for how others see me."

Cambiata

You know, I didn't think about the "Gamergate is actually pro-corruption" angle until this thread. Thanks for pointing that out.

You see stuff like this coming out of gamergate:



Pressure a large video game company into silencing a reviewer because of a bad review? It's a triple A studio's wet dream. It would also increase corruption in games journalism if it became the norm.

It's like the Jeff Gerstmann firing if it were engineered by fans instead of GameSpot.

Ilpala

Speak out against corruption by asking a video game publisher to actively silence a reviewer because they wrote an opinion we don't like that happens to be about sexualizing females in games. Just...wow. At least I have something to say for my Club Nintendo survey now.

ImpactWinter

mRahmani wrote: »

DivideByZero wrote: »

What all these overdefensive GG posts sound like to me:

"I identify with #AlQaeda because there are real problems with U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East that cannot be ignored any longer. But don't lump me in with those suicide bombers, I don't agree with that and they don't speak for me. Now stop talking about all the suicide bombings already, I want to talk about foreign policy!"

It's like... listen to yourself bro. Your motives might be pure as the driven snow but if you want to be taken seriously by anyone outside your little circle you desperately need to rebrand, set some actual goals, and self-police the shitlords from your movement.

Off-topic, but this is ironic and amusing to me as a Muslim gamer. I've been wondering if anyone out there would go, "Oh hey, so this is what it's like having a bunch of abusive shitbags set the tone for how others see me."

As a gamer who is straight, white and male; but more importantly is also the child, husband and father of women, it fucking sucks.

These little piss-ants do not speak for me, and I literally cannot see how anyone with a developed moral compass can do anything less than running as far and as fast from this "cause" as possible. The IRC logs that birthed this disgusting abomination of a "movement" contain some of the most vile and degrading words I have ever seen used to discuss a human being who has done nothing to deserve such hatred and vitriol. I'm deadly serious that those IPs should be investigated any anyone who took part in that exchange should be charged with some manner of stalking or harassment.

Greater Internet Dickwad Theory indeed, life has consequences.

ChrisAlgoo

+1 lurker who is disgusted with GamerGate. Supporting them is at best ignorant and at worst actively hateful.

Brolo

Cambiata wrote: »

You know, I didn't think about the "Gamergate is actually pro-corruption" angle until this thread. Thanks for pointing that out.

You see stuff like this coming out of gamergate:



Pressure a large video game company into silencing a reviewer because of a bad review? It's a triple A studio's wet dream. It would also increase corruption in games journalism if it became the norm.

It's like the Jeff Gerstmann firing if it were engineered by fans instead of GameSpot.

Speaking of Jeff Gerstmann, he wrote an article a little while ago about this topic:

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/letter-from-the-editor-10-17-2014/1100-5049/

GreatLimmick

Slactivist Clickbait Eaters wrote: »

But let's deal with the actual, obvious facts, shall we?

I have a better idea: Let's deal with some actual relevant facts, because you didn't list any. #GG is demonstrably not about journalistic ethics and it is demonstrably not the result of a corrupted political movement, and what the rest of us choose to do with our time when we're not posting on the discussion forum of a webcomic has no bearing on the validity of our arguments.

Oh, and you crammed more personal attacks into your one post than I remember seeing in the rest of the thread, so congrats for that, I guess.

Commander Zoom

GreatLimmick wrote: »

Oh, and you crammed more personal attacks into your one post than I remember seeing in the rest of the thread, so congrats for that, I guess.

But wait, #GG isn't about personal attacks, it's about ethics. Right?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Cambiata

What is the link you are trying to post Aegeri? The first one just leads to this thread.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Cambiata

Ah, I saw some of Todd in the Shadows' tweets today but I didn't get the whole story. That is about as clear a picture of what gamergate really is as you're going to get.

Djiem

UreshiiAkuma wrote: »

And thank you to everyone above who rarely posts here or just lurks, who chose to take their time to respond to the guy at the top of the page. It really meant a tremendous amount to me, especially in what has been an extremely exhausting two months.

I have to agree with that. Thanks to all to confirming what the "Agree"s and "Awesome"s in the first 2 pages of this thread were indicating: that this community isn't falling for the bullshit GG is trying to pull, and that you condemn their hate campaign.

Helicaon

+another lurker who was sure this whole thing had been blown out of all proportion until reading this discussion and following the links from it - I feel ashamed for more or less ignoring what was/is going on...

PAX_Skeletor

+1 lurker here.
I do not like this #gamergate
I do not like its twisted hate
I do not like them on the Twitter
I do not like their toxic witter
I do not like their foul YouTubes
with vids designed to scam poor rubes
I do not like them here and there
I do not like them anywhere!
I do not like this gamergate
I do not like it Sam I Ain't

chromdom

I was with you until 'toxic witter'
Maybe 'I do not like their vile bitter'?

GreatLimmick

Smoogy wrote: »

Back to the comic at hand...is there something I'm missing in regards to lifting the pumpkin with back or legs? I feel like there's a joke I'm just not seeing...

I was rereading the thread and noticed that this question kind of got lost in the shuffle. (Well, technically it was answered, but the answer was totally without context so...)

Basically, your legs are the strongest muscles in your body, so you should use them to do heavy lifting while using the rest of your body to grip and stabilize. Your back muscles are comparatively weaker, and neither they nor your spine are very good for heavy or frequent lifting. Lifting with your back is a very easy way to injure yourself, and the insidious part is that you may not even notice the injuries until you try to lift something else much later.

Alistair Hutton

Yeah, never lift with your back. You can ruin it lifting even tiny weights.

ziddersroofurry

I know this probably won't get read but I think people in general should be kinder to each other. I think we all deserve love, and to be treated decently. I think the reason why so many people end up hating each other is because people don't tell each other "I love you" enough. Not in a creepy way. Just in a 'Hey, as a fellow human being I get that sometimes this universe can be a pretty shitty place, and I want you to know that I'm here for you if you need someone to talk to."

I'm sure not everyone involved with Gamergate is a bad person. It's sad that it's gotten to this point but I don't feel right associating myself with that label. I think that you don't need to stand behind a hash tag to be kind to others. Just be kind.

"Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are."
-Buckaroo Banzai

"Shared pain is lessened; Shared joy is increased. Thus we refute entropy." -Spider Robinson

glider

I'm kinda sad to look through this discussion. Looks like now it's all turned into a publicity war. And whoever brands their enemy "terrorists" wins this, no matter the reality. Since some people from one side (it's not like the sides are a given here, but still) threatened someone on the other, it's ok to label this whole side. And since this label is bad PR... too bad! But we have a winner, lets all now bathe in our self-righteousness and glory!

As it was said before in this very topic, replacing a hashtag won't help one bit.

PS Can I ask you people not to respond to this? I'm kinda posting this only to express my disappointment and have no desire to argue with anyone. It'll be easier to refrain from popping in this thread again this way

Cambiata

Well, you can ask people not to respond, but you've made a post that's a bit dishonest, and dishonesty merits a response.

I've asked politely to be told what gamergate proposes to do (not just in this thread, but elsewhere as well). No one in gamergate has answers for me that aren't either impossible - asking for games journalists for "objective reviews" is like asking for "a square circle" - or actually bad - "don't talk about feminism when discussing games, in any games journalism outlet, even the ones I don't read." Or "leave politics out of gaming", which is another impossibility. Even an outlet making an article agreeing with gamergate is discussing politics.

It's not "bad PR", it's that even among the people who feel sincere about gamergate, there's no real ideas there.

When Jeff Gerstmann tells you your ideas of corruption are wrong, maybe give him a listen since he has experience in this area?

UnbrokenEva

https://twitter.com/spacekatgal/status/523231492055773184

https://twitter.com/thequinnspiracy/status/523311047219113985

the suspense is killing me

Djiem

glider wrote: »

And whoever brands their enemy "terrorists" wins this, no matter the reality.

People who drive people out of their homes with death threats, and who send school shooting threats to silence someone ARE terrorists. That's literally what terrorism is.

Hahnsoo1

glider wrote: »

I'm kinda sad to look through this discussion. Looks like now it's all turned into a publicity war. And whoever brands their enemy "terrorists" wins this, no matter the reality. Since some people from one side (it's not like the sides are a given here, but still) threatened someone on the other, it's ok to label this whole side.

Yeah, "both sides" are bad, so vote Gamergate! Why vote for the lesser evil? (/sarcasm) (also stated earlier in this thread, sarcastically)

And since this label is bad PR... too bad! But we have a winner, lets all now bathe in our self-righteousness and glory!

Hrm. It's not quite "sanctimonious", so I think I'm only allowed to take half a shot, what do you think? Because, after all, it's all about making a show of moral superiority, right?

As it was said before in this very topic, replacing a hashtag won't help one bit.

I'm wondering why people are so reticent to change their own labels? You can do that on the internet, you know! People do it all the time. And actually, changing the label would make a world of difference, at this point. People should fly their own banners, and do their own thing. They should be their own voice. For god's sake, they can use something other than Twitter to do it, too.

PS Can I ask you people not to respond to this? I'm kinda posting this only to express my disappointment and have no desire to argue with anyone. It'll be easier to refrain from popping in this thread again this way

When you step in it, you are kinda covered in it, I'm afraid.

You're probably a well-meaning person, but it seems a bit sneaky to hop into the conversation in that manner. You can't pull a Kanye Interrupts on these forums.

Smoogy

GreatLimmick wrote: »

Smoogy wrote: »

Back to the comic at hand...is there something I'm missing in regards to lifting the pumpkin with back or legs? I feel like there's a joke I'm just not seeing...

I was rereading the thread and noticed that this question kind of got lost in the shuffle. (Well, technically it was answered, but the answer was totally without context so...)

Basically, your legs are the strongest muscles in your body, so you should use them to do heavy lifting while using the rest of your body to grip and stabilize. Your back muscles are comparatively weaker, and neither they nor your spine are very good for heavy or frequent lifting. Lifting with your back is a very easy way to injure yourself, and the insidious part is that you may not even notice the injuries until you try to lift something else much later.

Well, yeah I know that. But...why is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? It's just common sense...

Surfpossum

GreatLimmick wrote: »

Smoogy wrote: »

Back to the comic at hand...is there something I'm missing in regards to lifting the pumpkin with back or legs? I feel like there's a joke I'm just not seeing...

I was rereading the thread and noticed that this question kind of got lost in the shuffle. (Well, technically it was answered, but the answer was totally without context so...)

Basically, your legs are the strongest muscles in your body, so you should use them to do heavy lifting while using the rest of your body to grip and stabilize. Your back muscles are comparatively weaker, and neither they nor your spine are very good for heavy or frequent lifting. Lifting with your back is a very easy way to injure yourself, and the insidious part is that you may not even notice the injuries until you try to lift something else much later.

Also, leverage! When you hold something close to your torso and lift with your legs, the weight is a short distance from your pivot (your waist) which means less force required of your back muscles to keep you straight.

If you bend over to pick something up, now as you're lifting the weight is not only farther from the pivot, but all the weight of your torso is added to it. I don't remember the exact numbers but it basically has a multiplicative effect on the weight you're trying to lift.

Cambiata

Smoogy wrote: »

GreatLimmick wrote: »

Smoogy wrote: »

Back to the comic at hand...is there something I'm missing in regards to lifting the pumpkin with back or legs? I feel like there's a joke I'm just not seeing...

I was rereading the thread and noticed that this question kind of got lost in the shuffle. (Well, technically it was answered, but the answer was totally without context so...)

Basically, your legs are the strongest muscles in your body, so you should use them to do heavy lifting while using the rest of your body to grip and stabilize. Your back muscles are comparatively weaker, and neither they nor your spine are very good for heavy or frequent lifting. Lifting with your back is a very easy way to injure yourself, and the insidious part is that you may not even notice the injuries until you try to lift something else much later.

Well, yeah I know that. But...why is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? It's just common sense...

I think the joke is that Tycho is fucking with Gabe.