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The Even Cooler Stuff From [History] Thread

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  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Does he talk in the book about his efforts to arrange a Konoe-FDR meeting in Hawaii just before the war started?

  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    Terry Jones (of monty python fame) as also made several good documentaries. He favors the style of taking a commonly accepted traditional western view and then showing it to be false. This can be a very useful approach. But, especially for people who aren't aware of the traditional view, it tends to go too far in the other direction. So, keep that in mind especially in his series "Barbarians".

    Overall though his documentaries are at least as good as stuff on PBS and a lot better than the History Channel. And of course he's pretty funny.




    note: season 2 of "medieval lives" is not by Jones and is terrible


    there is also a good series he did about the Crusades (much darker in tone) but I can't find a link at the moment

    FakefauxNSDFRand
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Does he talk in the book about his efforts to arrange a Konoe-FDR meeting in Hawaii just before the war started?

    I haven't got there yet, but from a quick search it looks like it, yeah

    No idea how accurate his reporting of the meetings are of course, but in general he's been a lot more detailed than I would have expected for it being published in the middle of a war. (of course I'm still reading his entries from like, 1932, less reason for censorship)

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    I am learning more about Japan's surrender and the end of WWII from this thread than I did from all the history courses and History Channel shows I've had so far in my life. You guys are awesome!

    My grandfather witnessed the official surrender while serving aboard the USS Proteus!

    Gnome-InterruptusElvenshaeBlackDragon480RichyDoodmannRchanenSkeithMvrckGiggles_Funsworthrockrngeroverride367
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I am learning more about Japan's surrender and the end of WWII from this thread than I did from all the history courses and History Channel shows I've had so far in my life. You guys are awesome!

    My grandfather witnessed the official surrender while serving aboard the USS Proteus!

    Nice, my grandad would've been with the Missouri's group for the surrender, but he was laid up in a field hospital after having a mortar go off between his legs while prone on a hill during clean-up duty near the end of the battle for Okinawa (late June of 1945).

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    In April of 1814, with the fall of Napoleon, a man named Joseph Lucher became one of several political prisoners released from the fortress prison of Fenestrelle. For seven years, Lucher had been the friend, confidant and student of a wealthy Milanese priest. The priest had become embittered with his family, who had left him to his fate in the hopes that prison would lead to his swift death and their swift inheritance. Unfortunately for them, the priest did not die until January of 1814. Even more unfortunately, he had been able to maintain contact with his financial agents while in prison and named Lucher his sole heir. Three months later, when Lucher was released, he travelled to banks in Milan, Hamburg, Amsterdam and London, collecting a vast fortune, which he was then able to turn into a massive, steady income. In poor health and prematurely aged from the time spent in prison, he eventually made his way to France, where he witnessed the resurgence and exile of Napoleon while convalescing in a Parisian sanitarium. During this time, he heard the story of a young cobbler named Pierre Picaud, who had disappeared two nights before his wedding, having been made the butt of a practical joke by some of his friends. After two years of grieving, his distraught fiancé had married one Matthieu Loupain, who, thanks to her wealth, was now owner of one of the most popular cafes in Paris. When he asked about the friends who had tricked Picaud, the storyteller could not remember, but did recall that he heard the story from a man named Antoine Allut, who was then retired in Nimes.

    A few days later, Antoine Allut was visited by an Italian priest, Father Baldini. Baldini claimed, while political prisoner in château de l'Œuf in Naples, to have been a friend of Pierre Picaud, who had died there in 1811, not knowing why he had been imprisoned. Before he died, Picaud had befriended a wealthy Englishman, who had left him a diamond worth 50,000 Francs. On his deathbed, he had told Baldini that word had reached him that one of his friends, Antoine Allut, knew who was responsible for his incarceration. He charged the priest with delivering the diamond to this friend, provided he reveal to the priest why Picaud had been arrested. Though initially hesitant, with some prodding from his wife, Allut told the story.

    On February 14 1807, Pierre Picaud was the happiest man in Nimes. He was three days away from marrying the love of his life. Deciding to celebrate, he went to a local pub, to drink with his friends, including Antoine Allut. When the owner asked him why he was so cheerful, Picaud happily announced his impending marriage. After he left, the four men began discussing Picaud's fortune; he was just a cobbler, while his fiancé, Margaret Vigouroux was beautiful, wealthy and far higher in social class. Deciding to take Picaud down a peg, the publican bet his friends 100 francs that he could delay the wedding. Allut warned them that crossing Picaud was likely to be dangerous and left, wanting no part of the prank. The publican reported Picaud to the superintendent of police as a British spy, reasoning that after being arrested, it would take a week or so to sort things out. The following night, Picaud vanished without a trace. The names of the three friends were Gervais Chaubard, Guihem Solari and the publican, Matthieu Loupain.

    With the story finished, Allut received the diamond, which he sold to a local jeweler for 55,000 francs. A few months later, after discovering that the jeweler had sold the diamond for nearly twice as much, Allut killed the man, fleeing to Greece with his wife, one step ahead of the murder investigation. He would eventually be arrested and sentenced to rowing a galley.

    Not long thereafter, Gervais Chaubard would be found stabbed to death in Paris. Engraved on the hilt of the dagger was "Numero Un". After that, a series of tragedies struck Matthieu Loupain and his family. First, his prize dog was poisoned. Two weeks later, his wife's favorite bird suffered the same fate. Then his daughter (one of two children by a previous marriage) became pregnant. This actually appeared to be a stroke of good fortune, as her paramour was a wealthy nobleman who did not deny the paternity of the child and was willing to marry the girl. At the wedding dinner, it was revealed to the guests that Loupain's new (and mysteriously absent) son-in-law was actually an escaped galley convict. Four days after that, Café Loupain burned to the ground; what money and possessions weren't burned were stolen by looters. Loupain managed to start a new café, but after the string of misfortunes, the only employee still willing to work for him was an elderly waiter named Prospere. As Loupain attempted to piece his life back together, Guihem Solari was poisoned. When his body was laid out, a note was found on the bier stating, "Numero Deux".

    Loupain's son was the next victim of tragedy. He and some friends decided on a lark to steal some bottles of liquor from a local store. The police were waiting for them and swooped in as the boys were gathering up bottles. Eugene Loupain would be sentenced to 20 years in prison. Margaret Loupain died of grief shortly thereafter. Matthieu Loupain was destitute, living on the savings of the elderly Prospere, who had taken Loupain's daughter as his mistress. It was at this lowest point that Loupain was confronted by his tormenter. A masked man confronted Loupain, revealing himself to be both Picaud and Prospere, before stabbing him to death. As he stood over Loupain's body, Picaud was then, himself attacked. When he came to, he found himself bound and facing Antoine Allut, who had escaped from his galley and, during his search for Father Baldini in Naples, discovered that the man did not exist, and Picaud had not died in château de l'Œuf, His investigation eventually led to Fenestrelle, where he learned that Picaud had gone by the name Joseph Lucher. After learning of the deaths of his two friends and the string of misfortune that had befallen Loupain, Allut simply waited for Picaud to make his final move. Allut then tortured Picaud in an attempt to extort money out of him before eventually getting frustrated and beating the man to death.

    On his deathbed in 1828, Allut confessed the whole affair to his priest who, at Allut's request, sent a copy of the confession to Paris, along with the location of Picaud's body. Ten years later, Alexandre Dumas would read this story in a book published by a police archivist and use it as the basis for The Count of Monte Cristo

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Oh bloody hell. An honest mistake, didn't even notice until now.

    I feel dirty.

    own the pun

    fuck gendered marketing
    ElvenshaeBloodySloth
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I am learning more about Japan's surrender and the end of WWII from this thread than I did from all the history courses and History Channel shows I've had so far in my life. You guys are awesome!

    My grandfather witnessed the official surrender while serving aboard the USS Proteus!

    Nice, my grandad would've been with the Missouri's group for the surrender, but he was laid up in a field hospital after having a mortar go off between his legs while prone on a hill during clean-up duty near the end of the battle for Okinawa (late June of 1945).

    My Grandad was serving on the Glasgow, which a year earlier had been shelling the defenses at Omaha Beach

    edit: for the surrender of Japanese forces in Singapore

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
    Geth
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    I saw this when it aired last year, but now it's on Youtube as well. Hans Rosling tells a great story about the statistics of population growth.

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited March 2015
    The tl;dr of that is that the world population age 0-15 is really stable at two billion people and has been for decades. So global population will slow down a lot and reach ~11 billion people by the year 2100.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    If anything really drives population growth in the next century or two, it'd be some miracle medical treatment that puts off dying for another few decades (or even centuries). Average lifespan has increased a couple of decades, but it's hard to imagine what the effects would be if we could double it.

    destroyah87DoodmannEcho
  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    Scooter wrote: »
    If anything really drives population growth in the next century or two, it'd be some miracle medical treatment that puts off dying for another few decades (or even centuries). Average lifespan has increased a couple of decades, but it's hard to imagine what the effects would be if we could double it.

    Depends on the quality of life that comes with the increased years. Staying an apparent 40 (60 even) for a total 120+ years lifespan doesn't sound so bad.

    Staying 100 for 200+ years total ... yeah not so much.

    steam_sig.png
    HefflingprogramjunkiedavidsdurionsVegemyteDoodmannEchoNocrenJusticeforPlutoMvrckJobless Anarchistchrishallett83Shadowhopeoverride367zagdrobGiggles_FunsworthHadesAlbino BunnyNightDragonForarMetzger Meister
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I am learning more about Japan's surrender and the end of WWII from this thread than I did from all the history courses and History Channel shows I've had so far in my life. You guys are awesome!

    My grandfather witnessed the official surrender while serving aboard the USS Proteus!

    Nice, my grandad would've been with the Missouri's group for the surrender, but he was laid up in a field hospital after having a mortar go off between his legs while prone on a hill during clean-up duty near the end of the battle for Okinawa (late June of 1945).

    :(

  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    My grandfather was guarding an ammo dump at Pearl Harbor.

    I know he went in to talk about it a few times in my cousin's classes.

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    I am learning more about Japan's surrender and the end of WWII from this thread than I did from all the history courses and History Channel shows I've had so far in my life. You guys are awesome!

    My grandfather witnessed the official surrender while serving aboard the USS Proteus!

    Nice, my grandad would've been with the Missouri's group for the surrender, but he was laid up in a field hospital after having a mortar go off between his legs while prone on a hill during clean-up duty near the end of the battle for Okinawa (late June of 1945).

    :(

    It had a good ending. He made a full recovery, carried some shrapnel in his back the rest of his days but he was able to have a full life after it.

    His reaction to the injury (and his telling thereof) was awesome. He went into shock pretty much immediately, so when the medics got to him they elevated him on a tree trunk and started cutting what was left of his pants off. Due to the shock he didn't care about the pain or his injuries, so he proceeded to tear into the medics for letting his lucky silver dollars fall out of his pockets onto the forest floor :D

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    XaquinElvenshaeFoolOnTheHillForarMetzger Meister
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Ten Years in Japan is still pretty amusing:
    The new Chinese Minister, General Tsiang Tso-ping, made his formal call this morning [to the American embassy]. He has me stumped as to dress (that all-important element of diplomacy) because he came in a short black coat and a top hat. If I return his call correctly clad in a tail coat and top hat I shall be exceeding his procedure, whereas if I wear a short coat and a bowler I shall clearly be jeopardizing the good relations between China and the United States. In any case, I refuse to commit so heinous a breach of sartorial convention as that of which the Minister was guilty. This is a real problem with which I shall have to wrestle during the next few days, for of such stuff is diplomacy made.

    Tongue-in-cheek-ness to the side, it's an interesting look at like, what an ambassador actually does in their day-to-day job. There's a lot less pounding on desks and delivering official statements to leaders than there is like, trying to corral a loose-cannon translator working in government:
    I told [my boss back home] that it was going to be very difficult to maintain close relations with the [Japanese] foreign office and to discuss matters informally from time to time because such conversations were almost always given to the press, generally inaccurately, and were likely to stir up undesirable and sometimes inflammatory comment in the local press. Shiratori [head translator of the Foreign Office], as the department is aware, seems to act independently of his superiors and seems to enjoy giving sensational impressions. I added, however, that I hoped to be able to work this problem out in time. Shiratori, indeed, is quite an enigma; Shidehara tried to get rid of him and couldn't, as he is apparently supported by the military, with whom he seems to be in entire sympathy. He is also a nephew of Viscount Ishii and is closely connected with Hiranuma, President of the Privy Council and chief of the Kokushonsha reactionary society, which of course renders him impregnable at the Foreign Office. Furthermore, he is very thick with Tani, Chief of the Asiatic Bureau of the Foreign Office, who is a brother of General Tani of the Army, and thus both have close relations with the military.

    So much politicking!

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Knuckle DraggerElvenshaeNocrenRchanenDisruptedCapitalist
  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Very interesting. I'm impressed that he had such in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Japanese foreign ministry. I wonder if he got a lot of it from other Japanese officials trying to explain why they weren't responsible for Shiratori.

    A few years ago I did background research on the Occupation-era journals of William Sebald as they were going to be translated into Japanese. Sebald was the top State official in Japan, essentially what would have been the ambassador if Japan had been an independent country at the time. They were interesting in a number of ways, but what struck me the most about them was how obsessed he seemed to be about protocol and status. Lots of complaining along the lines of "I was placed in the third row, when obviously a man with my position was entitled to sit in the second". He struck me as the kind of man for whom the dress situation that Grew jokes about would have been serious business.

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Jammerstuxkamen
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    davidsdurions on
    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Kana wrote: »
    Putting off writing about a-bombs until tomorrow.

    Instead have an entire Yale history course, The Early Middle Ages 284-1000



    And course materials:

    http://openmedia.yale.edu/cgi-bin/open_yale/media_downloader.cgi?file=/courses/fall11/hist210/download/hist210.zip

    Thanks for posting this. I've been watching these, and they're great.

    Especially since they brought to my attention the Secret History, which is pretty incredible.

    KetBra on
    ohKiGmg.png
    Steam Bnet:KetBra#1692 Yo Satan
  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    Rhan9
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Very interesting. I'm impressed that he had such in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Japanese foreign ministry. I wonder if he got a lot of it from other Japanese officials trying to explain why they weren't responsible for Shiratori.

    A few years ago I did background research on the Occupation-era journals of William Sebald as they were going to be translated into Japanese. Sebald was the top State official in Japan, essentially what would have been the ambassador if Japan had been an independent country at the time. They were interesting in a number of ways, but what struck me the most about them was how obsessed he seemed to be about protocol and status. Lots of complaining along the lines of "I was placed in the third row, when obviously a man with my position was entitled to sit in the second". He struck me as the kind of man for whom the dress situation that Grew jokes about would have been serious business.

    It's not that uncommon in the diplomatic world. The status you give an Ambassador is often seen as a reflection of the status of their home country. So little piddly stuff like that can be a big deal to foreign service types.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Very interesting. I'm impressed that he had such in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Japanese foreign ministry. I wonder if he got a lot of it from other Japanese officials trying to explain why they weren't responsible for Shiratori.

    A few years ago I did background research on the Occupation-era journals of William Sebald as they were going to be translated into Japanese. Sebald was the top State official in Japan, essentially what would have been the ambassador if Japan had been an independent country at the time. They were interesting in a number of ways, but what struck me the most about them was how obsessed he seemed to be about protocol and status. Lots of complaining along the lines of "I was placed in the third row, when obviously a man with my position was entitled to sit in the second". He struck me as the kind of man for whom the dress situation that Grew jokes about would have been serious business.

    It's not that uncommon in the diplomatic world. The status you give an Ambassador is often seen as a reflection of the status of their home country. So little piddly stuff like that can be a big deal to foreign service types.

    Yeah, it strikes me as you do not want a diplomat who really gets upset and acts emotionally in response to these sort of things but you absolutely want a diplomat who can understand what they indicate.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    If you thought the world of political elbow-rubbing was tied up in reading great meaning into every seemingly inconsequential movement and statement, realize that Japan took that to a completely 'nother level.

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    V1mAngelHedgie
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    V1m
  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Very interesting. I'm impressed that he had such in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Japanese foreign ministry. I wonder if he got a lot of it from other Japanese officials trying to explain why they weren't responsible for Shiratori.

    A few years ago I did background research on the Occupation-era journals of William Sebald as they were going to be translated into Japanese. Sebald was the top State official in Japan, essentially what would have been the ambassador if Japan had been an independent country at the time. They were interesting in a number of ways, but what struck me the most about them was how obsessed he seemed to be about protocol and status. Lots of complaining along the lines of "I was placed in the third row, when obviously a man with my position was entitled to sit in the second". He struck me as the kind of man for whom the dress situation that Grew jokes about would have been serious business.

    It's not that uncommon in the diplomatic world. The status you give an Ambassador is often seen as a reflection of the status of their home country. So little piddly stuff like that can be a big deal to foreign service types.

    That's true, sure. But as mentioned, this was during the Occupation of Japan. So when Sebald was complaining about not getting the proper seat it was usually because some American general had received it, not because the Japanese were trying to slight the Americans. He was in the unenviable position of being de facto American ambassador in a country that didn't really need one because it was under direct American military control. So I do think it was personal for Sebald, tinged with the traditional State-Defense rivalry.

  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    The discussion of Grew reminded me of this account by Robert Fearey, Grew's personal secretary from May 1941 on.

    It's quite an interesting read, mostly concentrating on what it was like to an American diplomat in Japan following Pearl Harbor and Grew's belief that war could have perhaps been avoided. It also gives a good sense of how "quaint" the prewar State Department was in some ways.

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Very interesting. I'm impressed that he had such in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Japanese foreign ministry. I wonder if he got a lot of it from other Japanese officials trying to explain why they weren't responsible for Shiratori.

    A few years ago I did background research on the Occupation-era journals of William Sebald as they were going to be translated into Japanese. Sebald was the top State official in Japan, essentially what would have been the ambassador if Japan had been an independent country at the time. They were interesting in a number of ways, but what struck me the most about them was how obsessed he seemed to be about protocol and status. Lots of complaining along the lines of "I was placed in the third row, when obviously a man with my position was entitled to sit in the second". He struck me as the kind of man for whom the dress situation that Grew jokes about would have been serious business.

    It's not that uncommon in the diplomatic world. The status you give an Ambassador is often seen as a reflection of the status of their home country. So little piddly stuff like that can be a big deal to foreign service types.

    That's true, sure. But as mentioned, this was during the Occupation of Japan. So when Sebald was complaining about not getting the proper seat it was usually because some American general had received it, not because the Japanese were trying to slight the Americans. He was in the unenviable position of being de facto American ambassador in a country that didn't really need one because it was under direct American military control. So I do think it was personal for Sebald, tinged with the traditional State-Defense rivalry.

    The US government has some really weird rivalry between departments

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    But what about the existence of the actual wide-brimmed fedora as worn by Indiana Jones, and the trilby that most neckbeards now call a fedora? Which headwear does that tale apply to?

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    But what about the existence of the actual wide-brimmed fedora as worn by Indiana Jones, and the trilby that most neckbeards now call a fedora? Which headwear does that tale apply to?

    Jones wears something more akin to an Akubra.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    But what about the existence of the actual wide-brimmed fedora as worn by Indiana Jones, and the trilby that most neckbeards now call a fedora? Which headwear does that tale apply to?

    It applies to actual fedoras. Trilby was an 1895 play starring Dorothea Baird as Trilby O'Ferral. It's easy to keep straight:

    Fedora wore a fedora in Fédora, while Trilby wore a trilby in Trilby. :P

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    And Christian Bale wore a newsies cap in Newsies

    Basically, all hats are named after the performance in which they first featured

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    But what about the existence of the actual wide-brimmed fedora as worn by Indiana Jones, and the trilby that most neckbeards now call a fedora? Which headwear does that tale apply to?

    Jones wears something more akin to an Akubra.

    Akubra is a brand, not a style.

    http://www.akubra.com.au/

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So, here's a pro-nuclear power ad from the 70s:

    Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants1.jpg

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    So, here's a pro-nuclear power ad from the 70s:

    Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants1.jpg

    A nuclear Iran is a positive for the Middle-East, America, and the World!

    sig.gif
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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    So, here's a pro-nuclear power ad from the 70s:

    Shah_of_Iran_building_two_nuclear_plants1.jpg

    A nuclear Iran is a positive for the Middle-East, America, and the World!

    At least Iran was fairly transparent about it's nuclear goals back then (cheap/reliable power, Mohammaed Pahlavi didn't need the bomb when he already got everything but the kitchen sink from the US), certainly moreso than Israel and it's stance of Nuclear Opacity/amimut.

    For fun, read some of the declassified negotiation notes from meetings between Paul Warnke (deputy Sec Def) and Yitzhak Rabin (then ambassador to the US) back in 1968. Rabin more or less acknowledges that Israel is, but also, is not a nuclear power using a Clintonian/Talmudic argument over what the term "introduce" means (Israel vowed in the 60's to not "be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the area (Mid-East)".

    F-4/Advanced Weapons negotiations

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Well remember, when the Shah was in control, we were still friendly with Iran.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    If one can manage to divorce the idea of nuclear power and nuclear weapons being one in the same, it would be obvious. From a safety standpoint alone nuclear power is better. Roughly 13,000 deaths per year can be attributed to fossil fuel power. It's hard to find reliable numbers, but even the worst estimates put the total number of deaths attributable to nuclear power under 300,000. It could be as little as a few hundred. Nuclear power is cheaper, cleaner, and less impactful on the land. Clearly fossil fuels are off the table. Large wind turbines can put out around 2.5mw under ideal conditions and can take up achre or 2 of land each. A single Russian BN-800 Reactor can pump out 880mw when running at full capacity. When it comes to efficiency, we are talking an entire order of magnitude. A fast neutron reactor like the BN-800 can recycle it's own fuel until there's almost no fissionable material fuel left. The mining of fissionable material is not much worse than coal mining. If done underground with modern containment and protection, it can be quite clean.

    Wind and solar is great, but they require far too much space and don't work all the time. Nuclear Fission is the only viable stopgap until the boys at Lockheed's Skunk Works finish their 100mw Fusion reactor.

    That_Guy on
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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Top hats are serious business. I honestly wish they were still a thing, as they look dapper as hell.

    Who's stopping you?

    Edit: Let's do this.

    You say that, but just watch how quickly the currently fedora-clad manchild demographic adopts top hats if they get even a teensy bit popular.

    As a somewhat on-topic aside, that is essentially what happened to the fedora, itself.

    Fédora was an 1882 play starring Sarah Bernhardt as princess Fedora Romanov. Bernhardt was probably the most assertive female celebrity of her day, and as a result, the hat she wore in the play was soon adopted by the suffragettes and other women's rights groups. From there, it found its way into women's fashion in general. It wasn't until after WWII that manufacturers began pushing the hat as menswear, and its social acceptability for women began to decline.

    But what about the existence of the actual wide-brimmed fedora as worn by Indiana Jones, and the trilby that most neckbeards now call a fedora? Which headwear does that tale apply to?

    Jones wears something more akin to an Akubra.

    Akubra is a brand, not a style.

    http://www.akubra.com.au/

    Do you guys down under still wear hats like that? I think the only people that wear a hat like that is people in our western states that are trying to be cowboys still. But man, that store is great if I wanted to dress up like Indiana Jones for Halloween or something.

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