To me the question is this. The purpose of having universities is the education of young people to become valuable members of society. All sorts of 'sub motivations' exist in the US and are why we have say, private colleges and what not, but anything which exists in the university system should benefit its prime mission. Educating young people.
If we want to keep 'big money college sports' as a thing which exists (IE, why don't we deal with the NCAA problem by just banning the NCAA, saying that there will be no more sports scholarships, that teams can't train+play more than 10 hours a week, and that teams will be treated like any other club and be expected to manage their own revenue and pay their own staff if they exist etc) then can we prove that having all this big money stuff actually helps schools educate students?
It certainly say, helps them hire expensive coaches. Or, helps them pull in donors to build stadiums and so on. But does it actually get money on the table for more lecturers and more academic scholarships and so on.
Except that "educating young people" is only one mission of the university (and one that is not really respected by academia, given things like publish or perish continuing to dominate.) And this idea that killing collegiate sports will free up money is rather absurd - a lot of that funding would just vanish. Part of the whole fiasco in Lansing was that the MSU administration was using success on the field to drive fundraising to bootstrap the university as a research institution, which is why blind eyes were turned.
The reality is that college sports - especially football - have been big business for over a century now. Pro football teams have struggled in LA in large part because it's been a college town since the turn of the 20th century. This genie is out of the bottle.
I'm just trying to put a marker on the ground here to see why we even NEED any kind of organized college sport beyond just letting the sport team chat with freshers at the club meeting during freshers week is.
Do you really think that all that money actually helps the schools educate people (or conduct research if you view that as the primary purpose, I'd argue that conducting research is actually in service of educating people, since by having amazing researchers you have access to cutting edge knowledge and techniques who those people and their students can teach to others) or does that money just help the schools run a very successful football and basketball program?
You seem to despise the NCAA. I agree they are a terrible organization. One way to destroy them completely would be to ban the entire concept (or just never introduce it in the first place) of a semi pro sports team being run by a university. Which is what every other nation on earth has done. Every other sport and country just has proper developmental leagues with no ties to universities. Why don't we just do that?
Because we have 200+ years of history with that system, and it's really hard to just blow that up? It would be far easier at this point to reform the existing system.
The only 'reform' which seems to be fair in the eyes of people who hate the NCAA like angelhedgie (and hating them for what they are now is sensible) seems to be...
1) Players on the team negotiate their own pay, salary and benefits
2) Players retain their image and name license
3) Players can transfer teams and so on
4) Teams are responsible for player health and safety
5) Teams can't set morality requirements and like, fire people for being part of black lives matter or smoking a joint
Effectively saying that being a college sports player should just be a job, and (angelhedgie would argue I'm sure) a pretty well paid job at that.
To which my counter would be, well, if its going to be good job then why can only people who go to the university do it? Why do they have to quit after 4 years of play? Why can't anyone apply, negotiate a contract, and get to work. Why can't they just keep their jobs? What if I can't cut it in the NFL, why can't I just go back to 'College ball'. What if a college team can pay more than an NFL team for a player? Why can't the 'college league' be the top league.
I don't really see how your list of questions actually argues against treating players as employees.
It argues against the ties between the school and the team. Because if the team is offering good, real jobs then it can't then turn round and say, "We will only give these jobs to students at this school" because refusing to hire anyone who isn't from a specific school is illegal discrimination. If the job is playing football, then why can the 'team' say that you have to be sufficiently good at math to get into the University of Alabama to do it? Its a literacy test.
The only argument I've seen for the US style sports system which even comes close to holding water is that they increase engagement by alumni and students and make them more likely to donate later in life, which keeps the school endowment big, and lets them build non sports related stuff. However, I don't see that the school wouldn't be able to do 95% as well at that with properly amateur athletes who play the game because they like it, and train 10 hours a week or so as their hobby. The school could still slap up a nice big stadium and sell shirts and beer.
Treating college athletics as a professional sport just fucks up people's education, since the threat of transferring schools is far mroe detrimental to the individual students education then anything else. It also brings up the issue of how a professional athlete even has time to study given their training regime. Plus the whole thing where only students can be these athletes. And any educational requirements just incentivize rampant academic corruption.
It's a system designed to create professional athletes being given a subpar education in swahili.
Or it helps creates kids like this. Or poor fucking Devin Gardner who got a masters in social work in three and a half years while being the starting QB on some of the worst teams in school history and getting absolutely blasted for it in the media and among the fanbase. And his high school was shut down the year after he graduated. That kid never gets a chance at any college if he wasn't a great high school football player.
It's definitely both ways, I knew athletes who were genuinely working their asses off to get a good education and were in the tutoring services genuinely doing the work on a weekly basis. There were also those who skated by and did very little but got credit anyway.
The system is fucking stupid, but it genuinely provides a great opportunity for especially kids who are not quite NFL/NBA/NHL talented. Like coming to the US and getting a four year degree for free is better than tooling around the AHL for years for a bunch of Canadian kids who have come through the NCAA. So you build on that and pay them for their friggin' labor.
A system that only gives a few poor kids an education, assuming the can play football well enough, and that they have the opportunity to play football in the first place, is not a good thing.
An actual solution to the problem is a good system of public education, financed by a sufficient tax rate. That's what we do in developed countries. It's not perfect, but at least it's an attempt at universal access to education, rather than a system explicitly designed to limit access to the not-poor and a few athletes.
Welcome to America. We seize poor black schools and sell off all their assets (including the playgrounds!) then return them to the community and expect everything to work out.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Treating college athletics as a professional sport just fucks up people's education, since the threat of transferring schools is far mroe detrimental to the individual students education then anything else. It also brings up the issue of how a professional athlete even has time to study given their training regime. Plus the whole thing where only students can be these athletes. And any educational requirements just incentivize rampant academic corruption.
It's a system designed to create professional athletes being given a subpar education in swahili.
None of what you have stated are inherent in the system, but are all due to abuses.
No, it's absolutely inherent to the system because those abuses are what the system rewards and encourages.
Treating college athletics as a professional sport just fucks up people's education, since the threat of transferring schools is far mroe detrimental to the individual students education then anything else. It also brings up the issue of how a professional athlete even has time to study given their training regime. Plus the whole thing where only students can be these athletes. And any educational requirements just incentivize rampant academic corruption.
It's a system designed to create professional athletes being given a subpar education in swahili.
Or it helps creates kids like this. Or poor fucking Devin Gardner who got a masters in social work in three and a half years while being the starting QB on some of the worst teams in school history and getting absolutely blasted for it in the media and among the fanbase. And his high school was shut down the year after he graduated. That kid never gets a chance at any college if he wasn't a great high school football player.
It's definitely both ways, I knew athletes who were genuinely working their asses off to get a good education and were in the tutoring services genuinely doing the work on a weekly basis. There were also those who skated by and did very little but got credit anyway.
The system is fucking stupid, but it genuinely provides a great opportunity for especially kids who are not quite NFL/NBA/NHL talented. Like coming to the US and getting a four year degree for free is better than tooling around the AHL for years for a bunch of Canadian kids who have come through the NCAA. So you build on that and pay them for their friggin' labor.
A system that only gives a few poor kids an education, assuming the can play football well enough, and that they have the opportunity to play football in the first place, is not a good thing.
An actual solution to the problem is a good system of public education, financed by a sufficient tax rate. That's what we do in developed countries. It's not perfect, but at least it's an attempt at universal access to education, rather than a system explicitly designed to limit access to the not-poor and a few athletes.
Welcome to America. We seize poor black schools and sell off all their assets (including the playgrounds!) then return them to the community and expect everything to work out.
Yes. I know. There's a reason I don't consider the US to be a developed country. Solving those problems starts with attempting to solve them, instead of defending the status quo as a good thing.
Treating college athletics as a professional sport just fucks up people's education, since the threat of transferring schools is far mroe detrimental to the individual students education then anything else. It also brings up the issue of how a professional athlete even has time to study given their training regime. Plus the whole thing where only students can be these athletes. And any educational requirements just incentivize rampant academic corruption.
It's a system designed to create professional athletes being given a subpar education in swahili.
Or it helps creates kids like this. Or poor fucking Devin Gardner who got a masters in social work in three and a half years while being the starting QB on some of the worst teams in school history and getting absolutely blasted for it in the media and among the fanbase. And his high school was shut down the year after he graduated. That kid never gets a chance at any college if he wasn't a great high school football player.
It's definitely both ways, I knew athletes who were genuinely working their asses off to get a good education and were in the tutoring services genuinely doing the work on a weekly basis. There were also those who skated by and did very little but got credit anyway.
The system is fucking stupid, but it genuinely provides a great opportunity for especially kids who are not quite NFL/NBA/NHL talented. Like coming to the US and getting a four year degree for free is better than tooling around the AHL for years for a bunch of Canadian kids who have come through the NCAA. So you build on that and pay them for their friggin' labor.
And how many are harmed to prop up a system that only gets people a good education by accident and only sometimes?
NCAA basketball rules changes in the wake of the FBI investigation:
15 official visits (up from 5)
Elite high school prospects as determined by USA Basketball and college players can be represented by agents (to be certified as legit by the NCAA), college players may hire them after any season. These relationships must be terminated during the school year (...why?)
College players may submit for the draft and stay in the process through the draft. Undrafted players may opt to return to school. Currently they must withdraw at least 10 days prior to the draft.
D1 schools must honor scholarships to men's and women's basketball players who left school and came back to the same institution.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
NCAA basketball rules changes in the wake of the FBI investigation:
15 official visits (up from 5)
Elite high school prospects as determined by USA Basketball and college players can be represented by agents (to be certified as legit by the NCAA), college players may hire them after any season. These relationships must be terminated during the school year (...why?)
College players may submit for the draft and stay in the process through the draft. Undrafted players may opt to return to school. Currently they must withdraw at least 10 days prior to the draft.
D1 schools must honor scholarships to men's and women's basketball players who left school and came back to the same institution.
Not good enough. The restriction on agents is outright illegal and needs to end.
Like any NCAA-run operation, there are plenty of rules in place, too. Athletes would have their money snatched away if the NCAA makes them permanently ineligible, or if they commit a number of violent crimes or get popped with an illegal gun or get hit with charges like racketeering.
The most important stipulation, however, is that an athlete will not be paid if they fail to graduate. This is, of course, an attempt at tying the college academic experience to the college athletic experience in hopes of appeasing the NCAA with just enough of a financial power imbalance to get their co-sign. In this form, the rule veils itself as an incentive, when in fact it would hurt the one group that produces the vast majority of revenue NCAA coaches and athletic directors have been building lake houses with for decades—black male athletes. A 2018 USC study revealed that among Power Five schools, 55 percent of black male athletes graduated within six years; compare that to 69 percent of all college athletes and 76.3 percent of all undergraduate students.
If an athlete is forced to forfeit their money, the cash will be placed in a “General Scholarship Fund,” which will then spend it on scholarships for non-athletes and “additional community programs,” as determined by the clearinghouse.
This is a complete nonstarter. Those players have earned that money - to say that they don't get it if they leave the school for any reason other than matriculation is theft, plain and simple.
This proposal shows, once again, that the only solution to the NCAA is breaking it.
It isn't just unfair, it gives schools and the NCAA an incentive to prevent athletes from getting a degree.
+1
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Blackhawk1313Demon Hunter for HireTime RiftRegistered Userregular
Like any NCAA-run operation, there are plenty of rules in place, too. Athletes would have their money snatched away if the NCAA makes them permanently ineligible, or if they commit a number of violent crimes or get popped with an illegal gun or get hit with charges like racketeering.
The most important stipulation, however, is that an athlete will not be paid if they fail to graduate. This is, of course, an attempt at tying the college academic experience to the college athletic experience in hopes of appeasing the NCAA with just enough of a financial power imbalance to get their co-sign. In this form, the rule veils itself as an incentive, when in fact it would hurt the one group that produces the vast majority of revenue NCAA coaches and athletic directors have been building lake houses with for decades—black male athletes. A 2018 USC study revealed that among Power Five schools, 55 percent of black male athletes graduated within six years; compare that to 69 percent of all college athletes and 76.3 percent of all undergraduate students.
If an athlete is forced to forfeit their money, the cash will be placed in a “General Scholarship Fund,” which will then spend it on scholarships for non-athletes and “additional community programs,” as determined by the clearinghouse.
This is a complete nonstarter. Those players have earned that money - to say that they don't get it if they leave the school for any reason other than matriculation is theft, plain and simple.
This proposal shows, once again, that the only solution to the NCAA is breaking it.
It isn't just unfair, it gives schools and the NCAA an incentive to prevent athletes from getting a degree.
Indeed, I’m sure there will be absolutely no cases of players being given incorrect advice on their draft grade and pushing a kid out of school to recoup funds.
Or dismissals due to completely minor infractions for this reason.
In more news, the NCAA is looking into students supposedly hawking thier school-issued shoes off to an online retailer for some extra spending money. It hit a number of students at North Carolina, and now it appears that it may be bigger than once thought.
NCAA rules state that anything a player receives for participation can't be sold- apparently the only people allowed to make money off the backs of the players are the school, the sponsors, and the athletic department- and to be honest, I can see why a lot of these players are doing this- they just want to be able to have a little money to put into their pockets, is all. Being that one pair of exclusive shoes can bring $3k on that site (apparently shoes are a thing for some people), I can see why some of the players would want to do it. Maybe if they actually gave something of a living wage to these players to keep them in food or decent lodging...
Meanwhile Maryland’s football coaches are killing their players
Literally
The Big Ten East in the last decade:
Maryland football: literally killed a player with heat stroke, is generally physically/mentally abusive
Rutgers everything: widespread culture of physical/mental abuse
Penn State football: Sandusky
Ohio State: Smith, wrestling sexual abuse from the last three or four decades uncovered, swimming sexual abuse (probably also happened at Michigan, he used to coach here)
Michigan State athletics: Nassar, widespread sexual assault allegations against football/basketball players thrown under the rug
Michigan football: played a kid with an obvious concussion, claimed their kicker was out for "family reasons" when the truth was he had been expelled for sexual assault
Indiana football: fired Kevin Wilson (now at OSU!) for widespread physical/mental abuse of players
Doing real well.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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lwt1973King of ThievesSyndicationRegistered Userregular
Despite numerous reports of Durkin trying to make spring and summer practices “as hard as we can,” and openly commenting that, “the heat makes cowards out of us all,” both Loh and Evans denied having ever personally witnessed the type of “toxic” behavior detailed by ESPN’s initial report. Loh promised that the university would do its best to prevent players from being killed by football drills moving forward.
They're throwing the training staff under the bus and probably keeping the coach. Don't feel too bad for the strength coach as he was let go but he got a financial settlement.
"He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
Meanwhile Maryland’s football coaches are killing their players
Literally
The Big Ten East in the last decade:
Maryland football: literally killed a player with heat stroke, is generally physically/mentally abusive
Rutgers everything: widespread culture of physical/mental abuse
Penn State football: Sandusky
Ohio State: Smith, wrestling sexual abuse from the last three or four decades uncovered, swimming sexual abuse (probably also happened at Michigan, he used to coach here)
Michigan State athletics: Nassar, widespread sexual assault allegations against football/basketball players thrown under the rug
Michigan football: played a kid with an obvious concussion, claimed their kicker was out for "family reasons" when the truth was he had been expelled for sexual assault
Indiana football: fired Kevin Wilson (now at OSU!) for widespread physical/mental abuse of players
It wasn’t even just pushing to such dangerous levels. Dude had a seizure and they didn’t call it in for an hour!!! They tried to help him walk it off, literally!
Despite numerous reports of Durkin trying to make spring and summer practices “as hard as we can,” and openly commenting that, “the heat makes cowards out of us all,” both Loh and Evans denied having ever personally witnessed the type of “toxic” behavior detailed by ESPN’s initial report. Loh promised that the university would do its best to prevent players from being killed by football drills moving forward.
They're throwing the training staff under the bus and probably keeping the coach. Don't feel too bad for the strength coach as he was let go but he got a financial settlement.
And this is why the NCAA is such a shitty organization, because a decent organization would have slapped a show cause on Durkin on grounds of "coaches that get players killed have no place in the NCAA."
But that would require the NCAA to actually care about players.
Do your best? You promise to try real hard not to kill people?
What the fuck
That is not actually a quote. I don't have a transcript of the press conference but I did watch it. He said they failed, accepted moral and legal responsibility, etc. etc.
The NCAA is garbage and everything and Maryland let a player die because they didn't give a shit, but we don't need to fabricate quotes to do it.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
SB Nation released a four-part series about how recruitment in College Football is fucked, you guys. It's focused the microcosm of Ole Miss and Mississippi State. The series is of extremely high production quality; this is a documentary series and it looks (and sounds) like one, too. I'd say it's pretty good.
Also from SB Nation, a report on the NCAA's racist "investigation" of Donte and Spencer Moncrief, driven by NCAA investigator Mike Sheridan's belief that Spencer couldn't afford the note on a used Dodge Challenger. It only ended when the NCAA got their hand caught in the cookie jar - using social engineering to acquire the hotel records for a business trip Spencer was on, because apparently Sheridan doesn't understand how modern banking works.
Fixed that. And this is, of course, fallout from the NCAA's cowardice with Penn State. The NCAA will never again use its authority to hold schools accountable for sexual abuse after that fiasco.
And that's why the motherfucking NCAA can go get fucked.
It's the fallout from Penn State. After that, the NCAA will never again use their authority to penalize a school for sexual abusesystematic crimes.
All because they didn't want to blink on deciding where the fine money went. I can't think of a better example to define the utter craven two-facedness of the NCAA.
No, it was because a) they didn't want another SMU, especially with one of their top programs in the country, and b) Emmert didn't have the spine to deal with the various lawsuits flung at the NCAA by PSU supporters. I honestly believe that had Emmert had the spine that PSU's insurer showed, Penn State's reputation would be even more in tatters now.
You can believe that, but I would say you would be pretty wrong. Emmert keeping his spine would have screwed the NCAA far worse. The NCAA is laying low and licking it's wounds, but there may be a point where they recover enough to try to enforce things like that again. If they went to court and lost the case they did, they would have been hurt a lot more than they were, as well as opening themselves up to a counter suit proper from PSU for damages. Remember, Penn State never actually sued them in any of those proceedings.
The problem was, the "winning" (settled) lawsuit came from the NCAA itself challenging the PA law passed requiring the distribution of the fine money to in state charities. If the NCAA had backed off and said the fine would be kept in PA, then they would have been all right. Instead, they challenged the law as unconstitutional and wound up losing those battles in court. In their losing case in the State Supreme court the entire legality of the consent decree was brought under review, and a new trial was scheduled to review that. That's when they settled and restored everything, because they figured it and Freeh's report weren't going to hold up to the legal challenge.
I'm half of the mind that PSU picked Freeh because the guy is a complete hack who has continually stumbled from one disaster to another and all of his post FBI work has either been dismissed in court or was incredibly sketchy. Not sure if they thought they could just bribe him to be favorable, or if he would just produce his usual shitty work. I don't think they expected the NCAA to co-opt him to run their own investigation.
Overall, I maintain the Department of Education should have handled the whole matter. Kept the NCAA to regulating actual competitive issues, and let an actual federal agency be in charge of dishing out punishments under Title IX justifications, because they will hold up a lot better in court, and it would have set precedent for Baylor, MSU, etc. Sports adjacent criminal matters unrelated to competitiveness were never going to hold up to a challenge long term. And if PSU hadn't fought it, someone else would have (*waves at Baylor*, *MSU*).
But either way, the NCAA screwed up because they got greedy about financials, which as I said, is basically the perfect example of what they are actually about.
It's the fallout from Penn State. After that, the NCAA will never again use their authority to penalize a school for sexual abusesystematic crimes.
All because they didn't want to blink on deciding where the fine money went. I can't think of a better example to define the utter craven two-facedness of the NCAA.
No, it was because a) they didn't want another SMU, especially with one of their top programs in the country, and b) Emmert didn't have the spine to deal with the various lawsuits flung at the NCAA by PSU supporters. I honestly believe that had Emmert had the spine that PSU's insurer showed, Penn State's reputation would be even more in tatters now.
You can believe that, but I would say you would be pretty wrong. Emmert keeping his spine would have screwed the NCAA far worse. The NCAA is laying low and licking it's wounds, but there may be a point where they recover enough to try to enforce things like that again. If they went to court and lost the case they did, they would have been hurt a lot more than they were, as well as opening themselves up to a counter suit proper from PSU for damages. Remember, Penn State never actually sued them in any of those proceedings.
The problem was, the "winning" (settled) lawsuit came from the NCAA itself challenging the PA law passed requiring the distribution of the fine money to in state charities. If the NCAA had backed off and said the fine would be kept in PA, then they would have been all right. Instead, they challenged the law as unconstitutional and wound up losing those battles in court. In their losing case in the State Supreme court the entire legality of the consent decree was brought under review, and a new trial was scheduled to review that. That's when they settled and restored everything, because they figured it and Freeh's report weren't going to hold up to the legal challenge.
I'm half of the mind that PSU picked Freeh because the guy is a complete hack who has continually stumbled from one disaster to another and all of his post FBI work has either been dismissed in court or was incredibly sketchy. Not sure if they thought they could just bribe him to be favorable, or if he would just produce his usual shitty work. I don't think they expected the NCAA to co-opt him to run their own investigation.
Overall, I maintain the Department of Education should have handled the whole matter. Kept the NCAA to regulating actual competitive issues, and let an actual federal agency be in charge of dishing out punishments under Title IX justifications, because they will hold up a lot better in court, and it would have set precedent for Baylor, MSU, etc. Sports adjacent criminal matters unrelated to competitiveness were never going to hold up to a challenge long term. And if PSU hadn't fought it, someone else would have (*waves at Baylor*, *MSU*).
But either way, the NCAA screwed up because they got greedy about financials, which as I said, is basically the perfect example of what they are actually about.
Arguing that the NCAA doesn't have the right to sanction schools over criminal matters (especially sexual assault and rape) is a ghoul's argument. Even if you win, you lose, because you sold your honor to do so. And please don't tell me that PSU "didn't sue" when you had the the-Governor of PA and the Paterno family suing, and the school didn't say boo about it.
It's the fallout from Penn State. After that, the NCAA will never again use their authority to penalize a school for sexual abusesystematic crimes.
All because they didn't want to blink on deciding where the fine money went. I can't think of a better example to define the utter craven two-facedness of the NCAA.
No, it was because a) they didn't want another SMU, especially with one of their top programs in the country, and b) Emmert didn't have the spine to deal with the various lawsuits flung at the NCAA by PSU supporters. I honestly believe that had Emmert had the spine that PSU's insurer showed, Penn State's reputation would be even more in tatters now.
You can believe that, but I would say you would be pretty wrong. Emmert keeping his spine would have screwed the NCAA far worse. The NCAA is laying low and licking it's wounds, but there may be a point where they recover enough to try to enforce things like that again. If they went to court and lost the case they did, they would have been hurt a lot more than they were, as well as opening themselves up to a counter suit proper from PSU for damages. Remember, Penn State never actually sued them in any of those proceedings.
The problem was, the "winning" (settled) lawsuit came from the NCAA itself challenging the PA law passed requiring the distribution of the fine money to in state charities. If the NCAA had backed off and said the fine would be kept in PA, then they would have been all right. Instead, they challenged the law as unconstitutional and wound up losing those battles in court. In their losing case in the State Supreme court the entire legality of the consent decree was brought under review, and a new trial was scheduled to review that. That's when they settled and restored everything, because they figured it and Freeh's report weren't going to hold up to the legal challenge.
I'm half of the mind that PSU picked Freeh because the guy is a complete hack who has continually stumbled from one disaster to another and all of his post FBI work has either been dismissed in court or was incredibly sketchy. Not sure if they thought they could just bribe him to be favorable, or if he would just produce his usual shitty work. I don't think they expected the NCAA to co-opt him to run their own investigation.
Overall, I maintain the Department of Education should have handled the whole matter. Kept the NCAA to regulating actual competitive issues, and let an actual federal agency be in charge of dishing out punishments under Title IX justifications, because they will hold up a lot better in court, and it would have set precedent for Baylor, MSU, etc. Sports adjacent criminal matters unrelated to competitiveness were never going to hold up to a challenge long term. And if PSU hadn't fought it, someone else would have (*waves at Baylor*, *MSU*).
But either way, the NCAA screwed up because they got greedy about financials, which as I said, is basically the perfect example of what they are actually about.
Arguing that the NCAA doesn't have the right to sanction schools over criminal matters (especially sexual assault and rape) is a ghoul's argument. Even if you win, you lose, because you sold your honor to do so. And please don't tell me that PSU "didn't sue" when you had the the-Governor of PA and the Paterno family suing, and the school didn't say boo about it.
Read what I wrote. The court case that resulted in everything being overturned was the one that the NCAA themselves brought against the State. Not to get too deep into speculation, but I seriously doubt any of those other cases goes any further than they did considering they had multiple years and came up with nothing. Within a month of the NCAA's failure against the State Supreme Court, the issue was settled and revoked. The NCAA did that to themselves.
Also, I clearly stated my position - the DoE should be more hands on in investigating the situations when they occur, as well as the conditions that allow those mass abuse cases to exist. The NCAA is a privately run entity, not a government institution. So yes, I firmly believe they should not be investigating criminal matters. We have a whole government to do that. Now if they want to add in bylaws that they will adhere to recommendations from the DoE as to eligibility, participation, etc, then that would be fine. But the NCAA is utterly corrupt at best, corrupt and horribly incompetent at worst. So yes, I would love for them to stay as far away from actual criminal matters as they can and stick to continuing to exploiting athletes at the expense of everyone else.
The New York Times has an article about the FBI investigation into basketball recruiting and how it made one player a pariah through no fault of his own accord. But what it really illustrates is how the NCAA's gooseshit, including the FBI investigation, serves nobody but the wealthy people at the top.
This is why Michigan can't pay players, especially all the meaningless middle management positions.
Por que no los dos, Bum? Both are part of the problem.
Because one is the actual problem, the other is dumb shit that looks impressive in headlines but is a one time relatively small cost and not part of the structural problem infecting every area of American society, so I don't give a shit about it.
This goes for Alabama's dumb waterfall, too.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
While true, it's the optics, as the kids are saying. I get that budgets have to be spent or they get cut in the next year, so a much too large TV is nothing.
But they still bought it. And it still looks bad. It just isn't really meaningful(?) to the larger issue of unpaid labour.
Most of the random ass facility improvements are also from earmarked donations from boosters, so also not really relevant to budgets or yearly fiscal spending.
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The TV makes for something easy to point and laugh at, but UM paid $5.6M in total for its nine assistant football coaches, and $7M for the head coach. The NCAA doesn't screw over the athletes in order to drop money on random toys for the athletes, that's just a cover. It screws them over because that allows the people that run the NCAA to pocket all that money and use it to buy toys for themselves.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
The TV makes for something easy to point and laugh at, but UM paid $5.6M in total for its nine assistant football coaches, and $7M for the head coach. The NCAA doesn't screw over the athletes in order to drop money on random toys for the athletes, that's just a cover. It screws them over because that allows the people that run the NCAA to pocket all that money and use it to buy toys for themselves.
To be fair, there was a pretty dramatic spike in ticket purchases when Harbaugh was hired after the Hoke/Brandon debacle, so he did actually increase revenue and you can sorta justify it. Which is why I focus more on the people who think of things like "let's not fly the band to Dallas for a game against Alabama" or "can we blame this thing where my hand picked coach ignored an obvious concussion on the medical staff?"
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
“I was friends with a girl on the team and she sent them to me personally,” Cummins told the Cincinnati Enquirer in August. “I don’t participate with drinking and smoking and stuff.”
But Akron athletic officials, acting vindictively but within NCAA rules, told Cummins that the NLI she signed was binding and that they would not release her from its obligations. That meant that unless she could get Akron to free her up, either by doing the right thing voluntarily or getting the NCAA to force them to, Cummins would not be able to play college ball until the next school year, and she would lose one year of athletic eligibility.
Cummins appealed to some little-known but powerful NCAA tentacle called the National Letter of Intent Appeals Committee. But Akron continued doing everything the rules allowed to damage her athletic career—and the rules allowed ‘em to inflict plenty of hurt. Akron said it wanted the NLI enforced. The committee sided with Akron, telling Cummins she could play at Akron or nowhere this school year. Cummins requested a review of that decision, but according to the Journal-Review was recently told that she has no further appeal options, so she’s benched until next year.
And they have the audacity to act like they're the good guys:
In that declaration, Jones pretends that because NCAA rules allow her and Akron to screw over a kid, they are the ones actually fighting the good fight by screwing over the kid. The statement:
“The University of Akron and Department of Athletics has followed all of the required protocols in place when dealing with a National Letter of Intent. After receiving a request to release the NLI, the department thoroughly reviewed the request and ultimately decided to uphold the requirements of the NLI program. The University released Allison from her obligation to attend the University of Akron and allowed her to speak freely with any schools or programs. After an appeal was filed to the NLI committee, the University followed all protocols required and the NLI committee upheld the requirements established by the NLI program.”
And so we come to the scandal of the day, the criminal fraud and corruption cases currently being tried in federal court in New York City, in which several non-NCAA members are accused of defrauding major college basketball programs by providing side payments to athletes to ensure they attended those schools. The government’s theory is basically nuts, because it relies on the premise that when a sneaker company pays an athlete to go to a school that wears that company’s shoes, that school is somehow harmed—of course, we all know that schools hate getting great athletes who can pack their arenas and help generate donations.
Both the government and the defendants in the case admit that money was given to athletes. In some cases, these athletes played for those schools—e.g., Dennis Smith played a year for N.C. State and the Federal Government alleges, and the defendants do not dispute, that he received $40,000 on top of his scholarship to do so. He was, so to speak, paid and he played. And no one cared. Where’s the magical line?
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It argues against the ties between the school and the team. Because if the team is offering good, real jobs then it can't then turn round and say, "We will only give these jobs to students at this school" because refusing to hire anyone who isn't from a specific school is illegal discrimination. If the job is playing football, then why can the 'team' say that you have to be sufficiently good at math to get into the University of Alabama to do it? Its a literacy test.
The only argument I've seen for the US style sports system which even comes close to holding water is that they increase engagement by alumni and students and make them more likely to donate later in life, which keeps the school endowment big, and lets them build non sports related stuff. However, I don't see that the school wouldn't be able to do 95% as well at that with properly amateur athletes who play the game because they like it, and train 10 hours a week or so as their hobby. The school could still slap up a nice big stadium and sell shirts and beer.
Welcome to America. We seize poor black schools and sell off all their assets (including the playgrounds!) then return them to the community and expect everything to work out.
No, it's absolutely inherent to the system because those abuses are what the system rewards and encourages.
And how many are harmed to prop up a system that only gets people a good education by accident and only sometimes?
15 official visits (up from 5)
Elite high school prospects as determined by USA Basketball and college players can be represented by agents (to be certified as legit by the NCAA), college players may hire them after any season. These relationships must be terminated during the school year (...why?)
College players may submit for the draft and stay in the process through the draft. Undrafted players may opt to return to school. Currently they must withdraw at least 10 days prior to the draft.
D1 schools must honor scholarships to men's and women's basketball players who left school and came back to the same institution.
Not good enough. The restriction on agents is outright illegal and needs to end.
It isn't just unfair, it gives schools and the NCAA an incentive to prevent athletes from getting a degree.
Indeed, I’m sure there will be absolutely no cases of players being given incorrect advice on their draft grade and pushing a kid out of school to recoup funds.
Or dismissals due to completely minor infractions for this reason.
Or find some way to make them ineligible.
....
Sigh... it’s absolutely going to happen isn’t it.
Apparently some Michigan players might be on the list, too, along with Marquette and California players, too.
NCAA rules state that anything a player receives for participation can't be sold- apparently the only people allowed to make money off the backs of the players are the school, the sponsors, and the athletic department- and to be honest, I can see why a lot of these players are doing this- they just want to be able to have a little money to put into their pockets, is all. Being that one pair of exclusive shoes can bring $3k on that site (apparently shoes are a thing for some people), I can see why some of the players would want to do it. Maybe if they actually gave something of a living wage to these players to keep them in food or decent lodging...
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Literally
The Big Ten East in the last decade:
Maryland football: literally killed a player with heat stroke, is generally physically/mentally abusive
Rutgers everything: widespread culture of physical/mental abuse
Penn State football: Sandusky
Ohio State: Smith, wrestling sexual abuse from the last three or four decades uncovered, swimming sexual abuse (probably also happened at Michigan, he used to coach here)
Michigan State athletics: Nassar, widespread sexual assault allegations against football/basketball players thrown under the rug
Michigan football: played a kid with an obvious concussion, claimed their kicker was out for "family reasons" when the truth was he had been expelled for sexual assault
Indiana football: fired Kevin Wilson (now at OSU!) for widespread physical/mental abuse of players
Doing real well.
It was the training staff according to their AD and President at the press conference today.
They're throwing the training staff under the bus and probably keeping the coach. Don't feel too bad for the strength coach as he was let go but he got a financial settlement.
Isn’t it the diving coach, not the swim coach?
Do your best? You promise to try real hard not to kill people?
What the fuck
Next time will be better! Pinkie swear!
And this is why the NCAA is such a shitty organization, because a decent organization would have slapped a show cause on Durkin on grounds of "coaches that get players killed have no place in the NCAA."
But that would require the NCAA to actually care about players.
That is not actually a quote. I don't have a transcript of the press conference but I did watch it. He said they failed, accepted moral and legal responsibility, etc. etc.
The NCAA is garbage and everything and Maryland let a player die because they didn't give a shit, but we don't need to fabricate quotes to do it.
Fixed that. And this is, of course, fallout from the NCAA's cowardice with Penn State. The NCAA will never again use its authority to hold schools accountable for sexual abuse after that fiasco.
And that's why the motherfucking NCAA can go get fucked.
You can believe that, but I would say you would be pretty wrong. Emmert keeping his spine would have screwed the NCAA far worse. The NCAA is laying low and licking it's wounds, but there may be a point where they recover enough to try to enforce things like that again. If they went to court and lost the case they did, they would have been hurt a lot more than they were, as well as opening themselves up to a counter suit proper from PSU for damages. Remember, Penn State never actually sued them in any of those proceedings.
The problem was, the "winning" (settled) lawsuit came from the NCAA itself challenging the PA law passed requiring the distribution of the fine money to in state charities. If the NCAA had backed off and said the fine would be kept in PA, then they would have been all right. Instead, they challenged the law as unconstitutional and wound up losing those battles in court. In their losing case in the State Supreme court the entire legality of the consent decree was brought under review, and a new trial was scheduled to review that. That's when they settled and restored everything, because they figured it and Freeh's report weren't going to hold up to the legal challenge.
I'm half of the mind that PSU picked Freeh because the guy is a complete hack who has continually stumbled from one disaster to another and all of his post FBI work has either been dismissed in court or was incredibly sketchy. Not sure if they thought they could just bribe him to be favorable, or if he would just produce his usual shitty work. I don't think they expected the NCAA to co-opt him to run their own investigation.
Overall, I maintain the Department of Education should have handled the whole matter. Kept the NCAA to regulating actual competitive issues, and let an actual federal agency be in charge of dishing out punishments under Title IX justifications, because they will hold up a lot better in court, and it would have set precedent for Baylor, MSU, etc. Sports adjacent criminal matters unrelated to competitiveness were never going to hold up to a challenge long term. And if PSU hadn't fought it, someone else would have (*waves at Baylor*, *MSU*).
But either way, the NCAA screwed up because they got greedy about financials, which as I said, is basically the perfect example of what they are actually about.
Arguing that the NCAA doesn't have the right to sanction schools over criminal matters (especially sexual assault and rape) is a ghoul's argument. Even if you win, you lose, because you sold your honor to do so. And please don't tell me that PSU "didn't sue" when you had the the-Governor of PA and the Paterno family suing, and the school didn't say boo about it.
Read what I wrote. The court case that resulted in everything being overturned was the one that the NCAA themselves brought against the State. Not to get too deep into speculation, but I seriously doubt any of those other cases goes any further than they did considering they had multiple years and came up with nothing. Within a month of the NCAA's failure against the State Supreme Court, the issue was settled and revoked. The NCAA did that to themselves.
Also, I clearly stated my position - the DoE should be more hands on in investigating the situations when they occur, as well as the conditions that allow those mass abuse cases to exist. The NCAA is a privately run entity, not a government institution. So yes, I firmly believe they should not be investigating criminal matters. We have a whole government to do that. Now if they want to add in bylaws that they will adhere to recommendations from the DoE as to eligibility, participation, etc, then that would be fine. But the NCAA is utterly corrupt at best, corrupt and horribly incompetent at worst. So yes, I would love for them to stay as far away from actual criminal matters as they can and stick to continuing to exploiting athletes at the expense of everyone else.
Stop giant TV shaming.
This is why Michigan can't pay players, especially all the meaningless middle management positions.
Por que no los dos, Bum? Both are part of the problem.
Because one is the actual problem, the other is dumb shit that looks impressive in headlines but is a one time relatively small cost and not part of the structural problem infecting every area of American society, so I don't give a shit about it.
This goes for Alabama's dumb waterfall, too.
But they still bought it. And it still looks bad. It just isn't really meaningful(?) to the larger issue of unpaid labour.
To be fair, there was a pretty dramatic spike in ticket purchases when Harbaugh was hired after the Hoke/Brandon debacle, so he did actually increase revenue and you can sorta justify it. Which is why I focus more on the people who think of things like "let's not fly the band to Dallas for a game against Alabama" or "can we blame this thing where my hand picked coach ignored an obvious concussion on the medical staff?"
The spurned school, with the help of the NCAA, steals a year of her collegiate career:
And they have the audacity to act like they're the good guys:
Fuck Akron, and fuck the motherfucking NCAA.