I genuinely thought it was going to go Vettel's way after the safety car restart. He had the better tyres and nearly pulled it off.
Bottas and Kimi both disappointed today. Bottas was caught out badly on the restart and only briefly had the pace to match the leaders. Kimi was a damned idiot with regards to the double waved yellows. Good to see the stewards take a hard line on it, especially given that Kimi tried to argue against slowing down for the flags because "he was at the side of the road". It doesn't matter who you are, what position you're in or what the situation is, you obey the flags.
Force India's driver pairing would be easily the best of the midfield if they'd stop hitting each other. Both incidents were incredibly dangerous.
Really has been a season to forget for Verstappen. I'd say he's probably a bit faster than Ricciardo but all the results have gone against him due mostly to reliability. It's risky for Red Bull really. They have one of the most sought after drivers on the grid and can't give him a car to compete with. Other teams will come knocking and frustration may lead him elsewhere.
I understand where Kimi was coming from, but that's an argument against it still being double waved yellows, not against having to lift under the yellows.
Like Hamilton was probably right about the last lap of the safety car being unnecessary but he didn't just start racing a lap early.
unrelated to formula 1 but on sunday my dad brother and I are going to watch the Nascar truck rack up in Canada again which happens to be the only road course
Its pretty good timing since his birthday is a few days after and he loves nascar
I actually looked back on the career of Dale Earnhardt and his son because Sr. was my dads favourite driver and I still remember the night he died
Dale Earnhardt's death, kevin harvicks win + his son wining the pepsi 400 is probably one of the craziest most coincidental things to ever happen in motorsports
edit: I've actually got a couple good nascar stories haha
Q3 in particular was just crazy. It's one of the few times where they've had to go back to wets from inters. The final result is not what I was expecting.
The Merc looked much better in the wet than I expected - at least when Hamilton was driving it. He really is one of the best wet weather drivers out there. Took pole by over a second in the end. That's just obscene. Now holds the outright record for number of pole positions as well. Bottas on the other hand over two seconds down and behind a whole host of other cars. Ahead of the Ferrari's at least.
Ferrari are bound to be scratching their heads after this one. They were awful in the wet. For a while they looked like they'd only out qualify Vandoorne and nobody else. Given how good their car has been this year, especially with downforce, I would have expected them to be on top in slippery conditions. They're lucky that penalties take out a few cars ahead of them.
Which brings us to Red Bull. Verstappen in his element in these conditions and the conditions suited Red Bull. Ricciardo was right up there too. A pity that grid penalties send them to hang out with McLaren at the back.
Others that impressed - Williams, especially Stroll who seemed to be in his element. Ocon throwing the Force India into places it had no right to be, and Vandoorne for getting into Q3 in the McLaren.
Yeah, wet races are usually amazing. But there's a lot of cars out of position on the grid for tomorrow. Should be some good racing.
Or a terrible first corner.
I'm picturing it now... Stroll gets a great start, Lewis plows directly into him in the first corner, and the FIA immediately penalizes Stroll for being in the way.
Sainz will be moving to Renault and Torro Rosso will be using Honda engines. Pierre Gasly will likely fill the now open Torro Rosso seat. Both Robert Kubica and Paul DiResta are rumored to be the top choices to replace Felipe Massa at Williams which is contracted by Martini to have one driver older than 25. Pascal Wehrlein is likely out at Sauber and Charles LeClerc is his possible replacement.
There's some other interesting news about the teams not being happy with the FIA about withholding exact requirements for the Halo specs which is preventing the them from finalizing certain details on the 2018 cars.
McLaren ditching Honda was inevitable. They've been nothing but bad since their return. Perhaps Red Bull can make something out of them in the long run but it looks like a pretty miserable season ahead for Torro Rosso. Glad to see Sainz escape from Red Bull though.
I note that the Bottas deal seems to only be a one year deal. Doesn't seem like a huge vote of confidence, especially given the driver market this year.
McLaren ditching Honda was inevitable. They've been nothing but bad since their return. Perhaps Red Bull can make something out of them in the long run but it looks like a pretty miserable season ahead for Torro Rosso. Glad to see Sainz escape from Red Bull though.
I note that the Bottas deal seems to only be a one year deal. Doesn't seem like a huge vote of confidence, especially given the driver market this year.
I think Mclaren were at the point where the lack of performance and reliability was actually hurting their brand. One of their cars actually finishing a race was an accomplishment for them, and that's a real shame considering their history. Williams is no longer the front runners they used to be, but even their worst days are about the same as a good day in a Honda powered Mclaren.
I don't expect Mclaren will be a winning team again with Renault engines, yet I do hope that they'll at least be competing for podiums again.
McLaren-Renault could spring a surprise here and there, and always be ready to pick up a ball the others drop. The Renault engine is still third best, but the margin is much closer than it once was; and the actual McLaren chassis (i.e. the entire car minus the engine) is known to be very good, at least the fourth best on the grid and maybe better.
It won't vault them to the front overnight but they're primed to at least give Red Bull a hell of a fight. And they get half a chance to keep Alonso.
In the meantime, Honda get to work on their engine without the same spotlight that they've had working with one of the biggest teams, and if/when it's up to snuff, Red Bull could take them on, maybe at works team level.
Meanwhile, Sainz gets a potentially solid move to Renault proper, undoubtedly alongside Hulkenberg who will be helping build that team back up from the doldrums they were in.
As for Toro Rosso... I hope they get something out of this to make it worth their while. Short-term, at least, I can't imagine they're feeling on top of the world.
Elsewhere, I'd love to see di Resta and Kubica both at Williams, but Stroll is really starting to prove he's probably worth the seat. I suspect Kubica, if everyone agrees he's ready, might just clinch it, with di Resta retaining the reserve spot. He's dependable but unfortunately a bit unspectacular, and the attention Kubica would bring the team might be worth a few quid to them, if next year's car is a decent one.
I think Mercedes are hedging their bets a bit with Bottas, with the possibility that at least one big name might be looking for a drive after next year. Alonso? Maybe? If Hamilton doesn't veto it.
As a final twist to the Honda saga, Renault have supposedly told Red Bull they won't be supplying them engines after next season. So from 2019 onwards the main Red Bull team will likely be using Honda as well. Not entirely surprising considering how Red Bull treated Renault, even when winning.
It's also a move that will have impact in the driver market. If Honda continue to be terrible next year (likely really) the drivers at Red Bull may consider going elsewhere before being stuck with the least competitive engine on the grid. It's not like they'd be short of offers either.
Entirely possible too. But nor would Max, I don't think. Anyone going to Ferrari before the end of 2020 (at least) knows they have to play second fiddle, at least to a point.
I don't even know where to start with that first corner incident, so I'll start with Alonso. A great start and a real pity to lose him in a race that he could have done well in.
I'd have to watch it a load more before trying to blame anyone, but I'd ultimately label it a racing incident. Ferrari had no such qualms though as they were quick to blame Verstappen (who for what it's worth seemed pretty innocent to me).
Hamilton had a pretty damned good race regardless. Not a foot wrong and was on pace pretty much instantly in all conditions. Bottas not so much but pulled out a P3 in the end. I did laugh a bit at him getting passed by Palmer at a restart though.
Honourable mention to Hulkenberg who could have been on the podium if the track had stayed wet (and, naturally, if his car didn't fail).
also now takes the record for the most GP starts without a podium finish, at 129. It's amazing to me that a driver as good as him hasn't yet managed a top three finish. Especially with a pole position to his name. Although as today proved, it certainly hasn't all been his fault!
I don't even know where to start with that first corner incident, so I'll start with Alonso. A great start and a real pity to lose him in a race that he could have done well in.
I'd have to watch it a load more before trying to blame anyone, but I'd ultimately label it a racing incident. Ferrari had no such qualms though as they were quick to blame Verstappen (who for what it's worth seemed pretty innocent to me).
Hamilton had a pretty damned good race regardless. Not a foot wrong and was on pace pretty much instantly in all conditions. Bottas not so much but pulled out a P3 in the end. I did laugh a bit at him getting passed by Palmer at a restart though.
Honourable mention to Hulkenberg who could have been on the podium if the track had stayed wet (and, naturally, if his car didn't fail).
Man they didn't even make it to the first turn...
I feel so sorry for Max. His luck has been utter shit this year, and none of it is his fault.
Worth mentioning that the attrition rate was stupidly high. Only 12 cars finished.
Worst incidents were probably Ericsson and Kyvat who both managed to crash out entirely by themselves. I'm honestly quite surprised Kyvat is still about. He never really recovered from being dropped by Red Bull and has been getting steadily worse. Meanwhile Verstappen (who took his seat) has won races and is one of the most sought after in F1 and his teammate, Sainz, is handily beating him. It can't be easy but perhaps he'd be better off looking for success in another series?
The Ericsson incident was a hairs width away from being a red flag. A bit more angle on the car and the track would have been blocked. Even as it was it would have been very close to stopping the race to get it recovered.
Also not sure how Wehrlein managed to be two laps down on everyone else. I heard they made some poor strategy calls but wasn't really paying attention - which their strategist clearly wouldn't have been either if they let that happen.
I've never seen Ericsson as anything more than a pay driver. I don't think he's ever had a race finish worth remembering. Maybe he's a better driver than the Sauber can show as many drivers with real talent never had the backing or luck to be in a good car.
The only time either of the Saubers were shown on the US broadcast was when Ericsson crashed. I found it amusing that Hulkenberg was show to be ahead of Wehrlein despite having retired his car.
Did anyone else watch the Indy Car race at Sonoma? I'm really happy Newgarden won the championship. Overall another great season of racing, and I'm really looking forward to 2018 with new cars. I'll be rooting for Rossi to win the championship or to at least finish better than his 7th place overall this year. He finished the year really strong and hopefully can carry that momentum into 2018. He and Newgarden are probably the two best young drivers in what's becoming a very aged group of drivers.
Yup. Ultimately it was a racing incident, unlike Seb's idiotic sideswipe in Baku, but Max was blameless and, as far as I could originally see, so was Kimi, who just made a blinder of a start.
Seb just pushes that sort of defence too hard. Usually, though, he gets away with it. But with Kimi up there too, it couldn't work. Seb's move made no allowances for another driver (Kimi in this case) getting a great start.
So yeah. Dumb as bricks on Seb's part; but not actually deliberate, I don't think.
And another thing. Initially, I actually thought Kimi was as blameless as Max. However, look at this:
Kimi moves ever so slightly right, before he's past Max, and actually manages to contribute to the collision there a fraction of a second later. Not sure what he was thinking there.
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I have beef with how money is awarded in F1, and that beef extends to Ferrari since they get a huge payout just for showing up while teams like Force India have to actually work for it, but that tweet, and their determination to stand by it, solidifies my belief that Ferrari, as they are now, are bad for the sport.
It's too bad their fan base is so massive F1 racing probably couldn't exist as is without them.
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Yup. Ultimately it was a racing incident, unlike Seb's idiotic sideswipe in Baku, but Max was blameless and, as far as I could originally see, so was Kimi, who just made a blinder of a start.
Seb just pushes that sort of defence too hard. Usually, though, he gets away with it. But with Kimi up there too, it couldn't work. Seb's move made no allowances for another driver (Kimi in this case) getting a great start.
So yeah. Dumb as bricks on Seb's part; but not actually deliberate, I don't think.
And another thing. Initially, I actually thought Kimi was as blameless as Max. However, look at this:
Kimi moves ever so slightly right, before he's past Max, and actually manages to contribute to the collision there a fraction of a second later. Not sure what he was thinking there.
It's a racing incident for sure, because even though I believe Vettel is the cause, he may have just thrown away his championship, which is probably punishment enough. Covering off the other driver is pretty standard, but damn if Raikonnen's start wasn't the stuff of legends. Without Vettel hauling ass over, I think there would have been more room between Verstappen and Raikonnen, because Verstappen was already moving away from Kimi before Vettel steamed over and Verstappen responded by moving back. Raikonnen probably thought he still had the room Verstappen had just given him and, well, boom.
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After watching the whole start a couple more times: Verstappen never even touches Vettel.
Always a shitty situation when that happens. Drivers on the outside who can't see the car on the opposite side and assume there's space there, only driver who knows what's happening with no control over what happens.
Pierre Gasly will make his Formula 1 debut with Toro Rosso at this weekend's Malaysian Grand Prix.
The 21-year-old Frenchman, who won the GP2 series last year, will replace Daniil Kvyat "for the next Grands Prix", Toro Rosso said in a statement.
It isn't clear how many races they actually mean, or if Kyvat will be back at all. One hell of a fall from grace though - from the main Red Bull team to being booted out of the junior team before the season is done.
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Bottas and Kimi both disappointed today. Bottas was caught out badly on the restart and only briefly had the pace to match the leaders. Kimi was a damned idiot with regards to the double waved yellows. Good to see the stewards take a hard line on it, especially given that Kimi tried to argue against slowing down for the flags because "he was at the side of the road". It doesn't matter who you are, what position you're in or what the situation is, you obey the flags.
Force India's driver pairing would be easily the best of the midfield if they'd stop hitting each other. Both incidents were incredibly dangerous.
Really has been a season to forget for Verstappen. I'd say he's probably a bit faster than Ricciardo but all the results have gone against him due mostly to reliability. It's risky for Red Bull really. They have one of the most sought after drivers on the grid and can't give him a car to compete with. Other teams will come knocking and frustration may lead him elsewhere.
Like Hamilton was probably right about the last lap of the safety car being unnecessary but he didn't just start racing a lap early.
Its pretty good timing since his birthday is a few days after and he loves nascar
I actually looked back on the career of Dale Earnhardt and his son because Sr. was my dads favourite driver and I still remember the night he died
Dale Earnhardt's death, kevin harvicks win + his son wining the pepsi 400 is probably one of the craziest most coincidental things to ever happen in motorsports
edit: I've actually got a couple good nascar stories haha
The Merc looked much better in the wet than I expected - at least when Hamilton was driving it. He really is one of the best wet weather drivers out there. Took pole by over a second in the end. That's just obscene. Now holds the outright record for number of pole positions as well. Bottas on the other hand over two seconds down and behind a whole host of other cars. Ahead of the Ferrari's at least.
Ferrari are bound to be scratching their heads after this one. They were awful in the wet. For a while they looked like they'd only out qualify Vandoorne and nobody else. Given how good their car has been this year, especially with downforce, I would have expected them to be on top in slippery conditions. They're lucky that penalties take out a few cars ahead of them.
Which brings us to Red Bull. Verstappen in his element in these conditions and the conditions suited Red Bull. Ricciardo was right up there too. A pity that grid penalties send them to hang out with McLaren at the back.
Others that impressed - Williams, especially Stroll who seemed to be in his element. Ocon throwing the Force India into places it had no right to be, and Vandoorne for getting into Q3 in the McLaren.
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Yeah, wet races are usually amazing. But there's a lot of cars out of position on the grid for tomorrow. Should be some good racing.
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Or a terrible first corner.
I'm picturing it now... Stroll gets a great start, Lewis plows directly into him in the first corner, and the FIA immediately penalizes Stroll for being in the way.
Sainz will be moving to Renault and Torro Rosso will be using Honda engines. Pierre Gasly will likely fill the now open Torro Rosso seat. Both Robert Kubica and Paul DiResta are rumored to be the top choices to replace Felipe Massa at Williams which is contracted by Martini to have one driver older than 25. Pascal Wehrlein is likely out at Sauber and Charles LeClerc is his possible replacement.
There's some other interesting news about the teams not being happy with the FIA about withholding exact requirements for the Halo specs which is preventing the them from finalizing certain details on the 2018 cars.
edited for clarity (sorry about that)
I note that the Bottas deal seems to only be a one year deal. Doesn't seem like a huge vote of confidence, especially given the driver market this year.
I think Mclaren were at the point where the lack of performance and reliability was actually hurting their brand. One of their cars actually finishing a race was an accomplishment for them, and that's a real shame considering their history. Williams is no longer the front runners they used to be, but even their worst days are about the same as a good day in a Honda powered Mclaren.
I don't expect Mclaren will be a winning team again with Renault engines, yet I do hope that they'll at least be competing for podiums again.
It won't vault them to the front overnight but they're primed to at least give Red Bull a hell of a fight. And they get half a chance to keep Alonso.
In the meantime, Honda get to work on their engine without the same spotlight that they've had working with one of the biggest teams, and if/when it's up to snuff, Red Bull could take them on, maybe at works team level.
Meanwhile, Sainz gets a potentially solid move to Renault proper, undoubtedly alongside Hulkenberg who will be helping build that team back up from the doldrums they were in.
As for Toro Rosso... I hope they get something out of this to make it worth their while. Short-term, at least, I can't imagine they're feeling on top of the world.
Elsewhere, I'd love to see di Resta and Kubica both at Williams, but Stroll is really starting to prove he's probably worth the seat. I suspect Kubica, if everyone agrees he's ready, might just clinch it, with di Resta retaining the reserve spot. He's dependable but unfortunately a bit unspectacular, and the attention Kubica would bring the team might be worth a few quid to them, if next year's car is a decent one.
I think Mercedes are hedging their bets a bit with Bottas, with the possibility that at least one big name might be looking for a drive after next year. Alonso? Maybe? If Hamilton doesn't veto it.
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It's also a move that will have impact in the driver market. If Honda continue to be terrible next year (likely really) the drivers at Red Bull may consider going elsewhere before being stuck with the least competitive engine on the grid. It's not like they'd be short of offers either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41265779
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I'd have to watch it a load more before trying to blame anyone, but I'd ultimately label it a racing incident. Ferrari had no such qualms though as they were quick to blame Verstappen (who for what it's worth seemed pretty innocent to me).
Hamilton had a pretty damned good race regardless. Not a foot wrong and was on pace pretty much instantly in all conditions. Bottas not so much but pulled out a P3 in the end. I did laugh a bit at him getting passed by Palmer at a restart though.
Honourable mention to Hulkenberg who could have been on the podium if the track had stayed wet (and, naturally, if his car didn't fail).
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I feel so sorry for Max. His luck has been utter shit this year, and none of it is his fault.
but yeah his luck is shit this season.
oh.
oh
I guess I'll do some homework then
Me (and everyone else) two seconds after the start:
Clearly he was just too good on this occasion.
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Worst incidents were probably Ericsson and Kyvat who both managed to crash out entirely by themselves. I'm honestly quite surprised Kyvat is still about. He never really recovered from being dropped by Red Bull and has been getting steadily worse. Meanwhile Verstappen (who took his seat) has won races and is one of the most sought after in F1 and his teammate, Sainz, is handily beating him. It can't be easy but perhaps he'd be better off looking for success in another series?
The Ericsson incident was a hairs width away from being a red flag. A bit more angle on the car and the track would have been blocked. Even as it was it would have been very close to stopping the race to get it recovered.
Also not sure how Wehrlein managed to be two laps down on everyone else. I heard they made some poor strategy calls but wasn't really paying attention - which their strategist clearly wouldn't have been either if they let that happen.
The only time either of the Saubers were shown on the US broadcast was when Ericsson crashed. I found it amusing that Hulkenberg was show to be ahead of Wehrlein despite having retired his car.
Did anyone else watch the Indy Car race at Sonoma? I'm really happy Newgarden won the championship. Overall another great season of racing, and I'm really looking forward to 2018 with new cars. I'll be rooting for Rossi to win the championship or to at least finish better than his 7th place overall this year. He finished the year really strong and hopefully can carry that momentum into 2018. He and Newgarden are probably the two best young drivers in what's becoming a very aged group of drivers.
Ahh, just like classic F1.
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I don't know how anyone can possibly hold anything against Verstappen in that incident, unless the idea is that Ferrari has right of way at all times.
Seb just pushes that sort of defence too hard. Usually, though, he gets away with it. But with Kimi up there too, it couldn't work. Seb's move made no allowances for another driver (Kimi in this case) getting a great start.
So yeah. Dumb as bricks on Seb's part; but not actually deliberate, I don't think.
And another thing. Initially, I actually thought Kimi was as blameless as Max. However, look at this:
Kimi moves ever so slightly right, before he's past Max, and actually manages to contribute to the collision there a fraction of a second later. Not sure what he was thinking there.
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Yeah, no.
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It's too bad their fan base is so massive F1 racing probably couldn't exist as is without them.
It's a racing incident for sure, because even though I believe Vettel is the cause, he may have just thrown away his championship, which is probably punishment enough. Covering off the other driver is pretty standard, but damn if Raikonnen's start wasn't the stuff of legends. Without Vettel hauling ass over, I think there would have been more room between Verstappen and Raikonnen, because Verstappen was already moving away from Kimi before Vettel steamed over and Verstappen responded by moving back. Raikonnen probably thought he still had the room Verstappen had just given him and, well, boom.
Ferrari can fuck the hell off.
It isn't clear how many races they actually mean, or if Kyvat will be back at all. One hell of a fall from grace though - from the main Red Bull team to being booted out of the junior team before the season is done.