Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
Super Mario Bros. resurrected the North American console industry; erasing it from history would be catastrophic,as who knows how much longer that industry would take to recover, if it ever did. Without it Nintendo might not have made Zelda or Metroid either.
I have said repeatedly that the Mario games are good games, by other people's standards. As in what I'm saying are my standards and what I consider to be good, the key words being the personal pronouns. As in my opinions. And to me? Yes, the story IS the only thing that matters in a game, for the most part. There are exceptions, but I want a reason why I am playing a game, why I'm exploring a world and going on a quest. I can forgive everything else about a game if there's a good story to be had.
That's because your standards are batshit
Like if you literally only care about anything other than the story then why are you even playing games
Spend your game playing time reading novels and watching films, they have on average much better writing than random JRPG schlock
Why do you automatically assume RPG means only JRPG? Or that I can't do both reading and gaming? I mean is there something stopping me from reading a book for a couple chapters, playing a game for a bit, then doing my own writing with what I've picked up from both?
I think it's unfair to say that the "story" of mario hasn't changed
super mario bros. is about mario saving peach and the mushroom kingdom from bowser
smb2 takes place in a weird dream world where you fight a giant frog
smb3 is a stage play
super mario world is about mario and yoshi saving dinosaur land from bowser and the koopa kids
super mario 64 is about reclaiming peach's castle from bowser by jumping into bizarre painting worlds
super mario sunshine is about cleaning up a tropical island that was vandalized by shadow mario
super mario galaxy and smg2 are about space adventures
the new super mario bros. series are the only ones that follow the same plot as the first game
I said meaningful way. Mario and Peach's relationship doesn't seem to change. Bowser keeps being Bowser for whatever reasons he has. There are characters with character in Mario, such as the Paper Mario games where dialogue can be pretty good (and I played them because of the story/dialogue), but they don't show up in the platformers with that level of character.
Super Mario Sunshine is the only one that kind of shook things up by implying Baby Bowser was Peach's child. That was new and it's also the last Mario game I played. It threatened to upset the status quo and then...didn't. Things remained the same, and that's when I was done with the series.
alright dude, just keep moving those goalposts
Nothing's moved. I said "significant or lasting change" on the last page and haven't changed stance since.
If literally all you care about in a game is story, there are essentially 0 games that tell a better story than any good book or movie
Morrowind.
Deus Ex.
Dragon Age.
Lords of Shadow.
Dark Souls.
I don't understand why you seem to think I should forsake games just because they're "not as good" as books or movies in terms of telling a story. They're not competing, they tell their stories in fundamentally different ways. I can read a book, watch a movie (rarely, scriptwriting is different), and play a game and experience all of their stories to incorporate what I learn into my own.
I didn't say I don't care about other aspects of games, I said that story is the only part that matters to me. I will absolutely forgive game mechanics to get to a fantastic story. Does that mean I don't care about them? Or music? Or art? Not at all, I'd rather they all function well as a whole and let me immerse myself into the game. But in the end it comes down to the story.
it's basically cormac mccarthy's the road: junior edition
which isn't a bad thing or anything but it's just...a not very original entry in a genre that cribs very heavily from itself already
it's presented pretty well, and there are some good moments
but it feels like it's just going through the motions for the lot of the story
one of the people I played that game with called that the last set of antagonists were cannibals before any evidence was presented of that, just because we hadn't seen cannibals yet and you can't do post-apocalyptic fiction without dudes eating dudes
Super Mario Bros. resurrected the North American console industry; erasing it from history would be catastrophic,as who knows how much longer that industry would take to recover, if it ever did. Without it Nintendo might not have made Zelda or Metroid either.
It's hard to say
A huge contributor to the NES' success was ROB, since toy stores were reluctant to stock video games but were okay with stocking a toy robot
So even without mario they get their foot in the door, and from there it's a question of whether they'd be able to come up with a pack in as good as mario
And that's sort of where the thought experiment falls apart because who knows what they would have come up with if they hadnt come up with Mario
Metroid is obviously the correct answer to that Sophie's Choice question, but I honestly don't think I could make it. I'd sacrifice Zelda, knowing the whole time that I was making the wrong decision. Samus is my favorite video game character. Super Metroid is probably my favorite game of all time. I don't have that attachment to Zelda or Mario. I can't be objective in this.
In some alternate universe where portable gaming all but died in the early 00's, there's a version of me with this huge sense of emptiness, as though there were a giant hole in his life, and he has no idea why.
I have said repeatedly that the Mario games are good games, by other people's standards. As in what I'm saying are my standards and what I consider to be good, the key words being the personal pronouns. As in my opinions. And to me? Yes, the story IS the only thing that matters in a game, for the most part. There are exceptions, but I want a reason why I am playing a game, why I'm exploring a world and going on a quest. I can forgive everything else about a game if there's a good story to be had.
That's because your standards are batshit
Like if you literally only care about anything other than the story then why are you even playing games
Spend your game playing time reading novels and watching films, they have on average much better writing than random JRPG schlock
Why do you automatically assume RPG means only JRPG? Or that I can't do both reading and gaming? I mean is there something stopping me from reading a book for a couple chapters, playing a game for a bit, then doing my own writing with what I've picked up from both?
I think it's unfair to say that the "story" of mario hasn't changed
super mario bros. is about mario saving peach and the mushroom kingdom from bowser
smb2 takes place in a weird dream world where you fight a giant frog
smb3 is a stage play
super mario world is about mario and yoshi saving dinosaur land from bowser and the koopa kids
super mario 64 is about reclaiming peach's castle from bowser by jumping into bizarre painting worlds
super mario sunshine is about cleaning up a tropical island that was vandalized by shadow mario
super mario galaxy and smg2 are about space adventures
the new super mario bros. series are the only ones that follow the same plot as the first game
I said meaningful way. Mario and Peach's relationship doesn't seem to change. Bowser keeps being Bowser for whatever reasons he has. There are characters with character in Mario, such as the Paper Mario games where dialogue can be pretty good (and I played them because of the story/dialogue), but they don't show up in the platformers with that level of character.
Super Mario Sunshine is the only one that kind of shook things up by implying Baby Bowser was Peach's child. That was new and it's also the last Mario game I played. It threatened to upset the status quo and then...didn't. Things remained the same, and that's when I was done with the series.
alright dude, just keep moving those goalposts
Nothing's moved. I said "significant or lasting change" on the last page and haven't changed stance since.
If literally all you care about in a game is story, there are essentially 0 games that tell a better story than any good book or movie
Morrowind.
Deus Ex.
Dragon Age.
Lords of Shadow.
Dark Souls.
I don't understand why you seem to think I should forsake games just because they're "not as good" as books or movies in terms of telling a story. They're not competing, they tell their stories in fundamentally different ways. I can read a book, watch a movie (rarely, scriptwriting is different), and play a game and experience all of their stories to incorporate what I learn into my own.
I didn't say I don't care about other aspects of games, I said that story is the only part that matters to me. I will absolutely forgive game mechanics to get to a fantastic story. Does that mean I don't care about them? Or music? Or art? Not at all, I'd rather they all function well as a whole and let me immerse myself into the game. But in the end it comes down to the story.
If you are serious about this list then this conversation is pointless
I like most of those games but the stories are c-grade genre fiction in every one that would be crap without the actual game part
I have said repeatedly that the Mario games are good games, by other people's standards. As in what I'm saying are my standards and what I consider to be good, the key words being the personal pronouns. As in my opinions. And to me? Yes, the story IS the only thing that matters in a game, for the most part. There are exceptions, but I want a reason why I am playing a game, why I'm exploring a world and going on a quest. I can forgive everything else about a game if there's a good story to be had.
That's because your standards are batshit
Like if you literally only care about anything other than the story then why are you even playing games
Spend your game playing time reading novels and watching films, they have on average much better writing than random JRPG schlock
Why do you automatically assume RPG means only JRPG? Or that I can't do both reading and gaming? I mean is there something stopping me from reading a book for a couple chapters, playing a game for a bit, then doing my own writing with what I've picked up from both?
I think it's unfair to say that the "story" of mario hasn't changed
super mario bros. is about mario saving peach and the mushroom kingdom from bowser
smb2 takes place in a weird dream world where you fight a giant frog
smb3 is a stage play
super mario world is about mario and yoshi saving dinosaur land from bowser and the koopa kids
super mario 64 is about reclaiming peach's castle from bowser by jumping into bizarre painting worlds
super mario sunshine is about cleaning up a tropical island that was vandalized by shadow mario
super mario galaxy and smg2 are about space adventures
the new super mario bros. series are the only ones that follow the same plot as the first game
I said meaningful way. Mario and Peach's relationship doesn't seem to change. Bowser keeps being Bowser for whatever reasons he has. There are characters with character in Mario, such as the Paper Mario games where dialogue can be pretty good (and I played them because of the story/dialogue), but they don't show up in the platformers with that level of character.
Super Mario Sunshine is the only one that kind of shook things up by implying Baby Bowser was Peach's child. That was new and it's also the last Mario game I played. It threatened to upset the status quo and then...didn't. Things remained the same, and that's when I was done with the series.
alright dude, just keep moving those goalposts
Nothing's moved. I said "significant or lasting change" on the last page and haven't changed stance since.
If literally all you care about in a game is story, there are essentially 0 games that tell a better story than any good book or movie
ico
SotC
Portal
Portal 2
Earthbound
Mother 3
What's out so far of Kentucky Route Zero
Metal Gear Solid 2
Silent Hill 2
That is more or less an exhaustive list of games I know of with stories that fully rise above rote pulp genre fiction (and at least some of those are pretty contentious)
If you're not playing one of those and you exclusively care about good story, then you are wasting your time playing video games, because you could be spending your time with a better story
uhhhh
hmmmmmm
uhhhhhh
wow yeah I cannot think of any that would be legitimately qualified as better than "acceptable"
like, Wolfenstein the New Order is, literally, one of the best written and executed game narratives in recent years (in my opinion), and the reason for that is competence. In both writing and editing.
I have said repeatedly that the Mario games are good games, by other people's standards. As in what I'm saying are my standards and what I consider to be good, the key words being the personal pronouns. As in my opinions. And to me? Yes, the story IS the only thing that matters in a game, for the most part. There are exceptions, but I want a reason why I am playing a game, why I'm exploring a world and going on a quest. I can forgive everything else about a game if there's a good story to be had.
That's because your standards are batshit
Like if you literally only care about anything other than the story then why are you even playing games
Spend your game playing time reading novels and watching films, they have on average much better writing than random JRPG schlock
Why do you automatically assume RPG means only JRPG? Or that I can't do both reading and gaming? I mean is there something stopping me from reading a book for a couple chapters, playing a game for a bit, then doing my own writing with what I've picked up from both?
I think it's unfair to say that the "story" of mario hasn't changed
super mario bros. is about mario saving peach and the mushroom kingdom from bowser
smb2 takes place in a weird dream world where you fight a giant frog
smb3 is a stage play
super mario world is about mario and yoshi saving dinosaur land from bowser and the koopa kids
super mario 64 is about reclaiming peach's castle from bowser by jumping into bizarre painting worlds
super mario sunshine is about cleaning up a tropical island that was vandalized by shadow mario
super mario galaxy and smg2 are about space adventures
the new super mario bros. series are the only ones that follow the same plot as the first game
I said meaningful way. Mario and Peach's relationship doesn't seem to change. Bowser keeps being Bowser for whatever reasons he has. There are characters with character in Mario, such as the Paper Mario games where dialogue can be pretty good (and I played them because of the story/dialogue), but they don't show up in the platformers with that level of character.
Super Mario Sunshine is the only one that kind of shook things up by implying Baby Bowser was Peach's child. That was new and it's also the last Mario game I played. It threatened to upset the status quo and then...didn't. Things remained the same, and that's when I was done with the series.
alright dude, just keep moving those goalposts
Nothing's moved. I said "significant or lasting change" on the last page and haven't changed stance since.
If literally all you care about in a game is story, there are essentially 0 games that tell a better story than any good book or movie
Morrowind.
Deus Ex.
Dragon Age.
Lords of Shadow.
Dark Souls.
I don't understand why you seem to think I should forsake games just because they're "not as good" as books or movies in terms of telling a story. They're not competing, they tell their stories in fundamentally different ways. I can read a book, watch a movie (rarely, scriptwriting is different), and play a game and experience all of their stories to incorporate what I learn into my own.
I didn't say I don't care about other aspects of games, I said that story is the only part that matters to me. I will absolutely forgive game mechanics to get to a fantastic story. Does that mean I don't care about them? Or music? Or art? Not at all, I'd rather they all function well as a whole and let me immerse myself into the game. But in the end it comes down to the story.
lords of shadow are you serious, are you a serious person
I have said repeatedly that the Mario games are good games, by other people's standards. As in what I'm saying are my standards and what I consider to be good, the key words being the personal pronouns. As in my opinions. And to me? Yes, the story IS the only thing that matters in a game, for the most part. There are exceptions, but I want a reason why I am playing a game, why I'm exploring a world and going on a quest. I can forgive everything else about a game if there's a good story to be had.
That's because your standards are batshit
Like if you literally only care about anything other than the story then why are you even playing games
Spend your game playing time reading novels and watching films, they have on average much better writing than random JRPG schlock
Why do you automatically assume RPG means only JRPG? Or that I can't do both reading and gaming? I mean is there something stopping me from reading a book for a couple chapters, playing a game for a bit, then doing my own writing with what I've picked up from both?
I think it's unfair to say that the "story" of mario hasn't changed
super mario bros. is about mario saving peach and the mushroom kingdom from bowser
smb2 takes place in a weird dream world where you fight a giant frog
smb3 is a stage play
super mario world is about mario and yoshi saving dinosaur land from bowser and the koopa kids
super mario 64 is about reclaiming peach's castle from bowser by jumping into bizarre painting worlds
super mario sunshine is about cleaning up a tropical island that was vandalized by shadow mario
super mario galaxy and smg2 are about space adventures
the new super mario bros. series are the only ones that follow the same plot as the first game
I said meaningful way. Mario and Peach's relationship doesn't seem to change. Bowser keeps being Bowser for whatever reasons he has. There are characters with character in Mario, such as the Paper Mario games where dialogue can be pretty good (and I played them because of the story/dialogue), but they don't show up in the platformers with that level of character.
Super Mario Sunshine is the only one that kind of shook things up by implying Baby Bowser was Peach's child. That was new and it's also the last Mario game I played. It threatened to upset the status quo and then...didn't. Things remained the same, and that's when I was done with the series.
alright dude, just keep moving those goalposts
Nothing's moved. I said "significant or lasting change" on the last page and haven't changed stance since.
If literally all you care about in a game is story, there are essentially 0 games that tell a better story than any good book or movie
Morrowind.
Deus Ex.
Dragon Age.
Lords of Shadow.
Dark Souls.
I don't understand why you seem to think I should forsake games just because they're "not as good" as books or movies in terms of telling a story. They're not competing, they tell their stories in fundamentally different ways. I can read a book, watch a movie (rarely, scriptwriting is different), and play a game and experience all of their stories to incorporate what I learn into my own.
I didn't say I don't care about other aspects of games, I said that story is the only part that matters to me. I will absolutely forgive game mechanics to get to a fantastic story. Does that mean I don't care about them? Or music? Or art? Not at all, I'd rather they all function well as a whole and let me immerse myself into the game. But in the end it comes down to the story.
lords of shadow are you serious, are you a serious person
I enjoyed the story. I did not play any of the DLC or post-game content.
I think Gone Home gets pretty high praise for telling a fairly unique story in the realm of the medium itself but I don't think the story is very compelling, in and of itself.
Like Gone Home is the exact example to use in this scenario. The interactive nature of the narrative and the way the story is relayed through exploration is what makes it good.
I wasn't blown away by it but I definitely understand why other people were, and it's the way the project works as a whole that does that.
If you were just reading the transcript you'd be like ok whatever, this is kind of a sentimental epistolary coming of age story
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Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
Don't forsake video games madican just forsake this thread
I think Gone Home gets pretty high praise for telling a fairly unique story in the realm of the medium itself but I don't think the story is very compelling, in and of itself.
Like Gone Home is the exact example to use in this scenario. The interactive nature of the narrative and the way the story is relayed through exploration is what makes it good.
I wasn't blown away by it but I definitely understand why other people were, and it's the way the project works as a whole that does that.
If you were just reading the transcript you'd be like ok whatever, this is kind of a sentimental epistolary coming of age story
I would argue that the story of Gone Home isn't just the content of Sam's audiologs, but Kaitlin's exploration of the house. There are a lot of elements of Kaitlin's experience that are told through game mechanics which would need written descriptions if it were being told in prose form
Not sure if anyone can even answer this, but I'm looking to revive my N64 as a game console and I'm in need of some controllers and games. Is there a place I would be able to find these things on the cheap? Or is Ebay and random shady internet resellers the only way to go?
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There's a few transcendent moments in that story
But large swathes of it are about on par with any ol action movie
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Conduit 2
haha, you're a funny person, speed racer
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
This is not a fight I'm ready for today
And it's certainly not a fight anyone in the nintendo thread wants to read through
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Planescape: Torment
followed closely by star craft 2 (all of it but especially heart of the swarm)
Morrowind.
Deus Ex.
Dragon Age.
Lords of Shadow.
Dark Souls.
I don't understand why you seem to think I should forsake games just because they're "not as good" as books or movies in terms of telling a story. They're not competing, they tell their stories in fundamentally different ways. I can read a book, watch a movie (rarely, scriptwriting is different), and play a game and experience all of their stories to incorporate what I learn into my own.
I didn't say I don't care about other aspects of games, I said that story is the only part that matters to me. I will absolutely forgive game mechanics to get to a fantastic story. Does that mean I don't care about them? Or music? Or art? Not at all, I'd rather they all function well as a whole and let me immerse myself into the game. But in the end it comes down to the story.
it's basically cormac mccarthy's the road: junior edition
which isn't a bad thing or anything but it's just...a not very original entry in a genre that cribs very heavily from itself already
it's presented pretty well, and there are some good moments
but it feels like it's just going through the motions for the lot of the story
one of the people I played that game with called that the last set of antagonists were cannibals before any evidence was presented of that, just because we hadn't seen cannibals yet and you can't do post-apocalyptic fiction without dudes eating dudes
realm of ter-ooooorrrrrr
It's hard to say
A huge contributor to the NES' success was ROB, since toy stores were reluctant to stock video games but were okay with stocking a toy robot
So even without mario they get their foot in the door, and from there it's a question of whether they'd be able to come up with a pack in as good as mario
And that's sort of where the thought experiment falls apart because who knows what they would have come up with if they hadnt come up with Mario
http://www.audioentropy.com/
In some alternate universe where portable gaming all but died in the early 00's, there's a version of me with this huge sense of emptiness, as though there were a giant hole in his life, and he has no idea why.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
But that's because I find the nature of the interactivity of games more compelling than a more well realized narrative most of the time.
An OK story + fun gameplay is a greater experience than a great story by itself for me. A whole greater than the sum of its parts, as it were.
I hate you so much
Steam | Twitter
If you are serious about this list then this conversation is pointless
I like most of those games but the stories are c-grade genre fiction in every one that would be crap without the actual game part
uhhhh
hmmmmmm
uhhhhhh
wow yeah I cannot think of any that would be legitimately qualified as better than "acceptable"
like, Wolfenstein the New Order is, literally, one of the best written and executed game narratives in recent years (in my opinion), and the reason for that is competence. In both writing and editing.
lords of shadow are you serious, are you a serious person
yeah I definitely think one reason that games get away with adequate story telling is the interactive nature of the medium. Which is totally fine.
Saying you only like the story in a game, or only judge it hy its story, is missing the POINT of games
I enjoyed the story. I did not play any of the DLC or post-game content.
Steam | Twitter
I forgot about gone home actually
It's definitely up there story wise
In my mind it didn't quiiiiite hit the level it wanted to, but it laid a lot of important groundwork for future games
http://www.audioentropy.com/
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Like Gone Home is the exact example to use in this scenario. The interactive nature of the narrative and the way the story is relayed through exploration is what makes it good.
I wasn't blown away by it but I definitely understand why other people were, and it's the way the project works as a whole that does that.
If you were just reading the transcript you'd be like ok whatever, this is kind of a sentimental epistolary coming of age story
I would argue that the story of Gone Home isn't just the content of Sam's audiologs, but Kaitlin's exploration of the house. There are a lot of elements of Kaitlin's experience that are told through game mechanics which would need written descriptions if it were being told in prose form
Steam | Twitter
I'm sorry you can't appreciate the depth and quality of stories which deal with that which we all fear most: corruption of attractive young women
Do you think Chris metzen just has gigs and gigs of corruption hentai on his computer
Steam | Twitter
You mean, like in addition to the normal amount?
.... Money and also corruption porn?
what if, like, a good person needed to fight some evil so they tapped into a forbidden power and then became evil themselves?
Steam | Twitter
yrel is also not corrupted despite explicitly being described as having a dark secret on the world of warcraft website so he's 2 for 400 so far
I love a good book, although have really fallen off them lately, but they just don't do it for me in the same way
Although, some of my favorite video game stories are in visual novels, which are just literally choose your own adventure books with pictures.
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