The problem with mods is that they take an existing product and remix it. Not just games, but other mods too. So for years, mods have played off other mods. Stealing everything and making a small tweak, throwing in a little attribution line for all the parts they were made from. And that's fine, no one got mad when all mods were free or at best donation supported.
But throw in a marketplace, put a price on them and it's just a drama bomb waiting to happen. I am astonished valve didn't see this coming.
Am I committing piracy by keeping skyui installed on my PC?
Do I have to buy the new version? What about the mods that all require Skyui?
this is a clusterfuck
All Valve needs to do is make it clear that all mods are completely unlicensed as far as workshop is concerned. Valve will not be delisting copies or stolen work. They are not assumed copyrighted, they're not intellectual property of any kind, unless the creator explicitly goes through the trouble of establishing and defending those rights in a traditional sense. Absent that, it is not possible to pirate a mod. Buying something the marketplace is tantamount to a donation.
Not that any of this means that if you created a mod you need to provide the source or have an alternate distribution channel. Just that there is no implied intellectual property protection.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
yeah honestly the cut valve and the original devs take is the very last issue on my mind when it comes to paid mods
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
actually the very first thing on my mind is that this makes me much less likely to buy tabletop simulator because i anticipate this fucking the mod community porting board games to it
the whole point of buying tabletop simulator once i can afford it, for me, is to not have to buy the physical board game
which i guess is shitty towards the actual board game devs, but... myeh... *dismissive wave*
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Yes it does. It's an established practice.
And you're trying to make the case that these are lovingly crafted mods infused with the blood, sweat, and tears of their makers.
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I wish I didn't have to use my butt for pooping. Well, I guess I wish I didn't have to poop at all.
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
oh I misread you. Yes iD and Epic and blizzard and Valve and Bethesda and every company ever has stopped people from selling mods
mods are very shakey legal ground and mod makers generally have no legal rights to anything they create, this has always been the case
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
oh I misread you. Yes iD and Epic and blizzard and Valve and Bethesda and every company ever has stopped people from selling mods
mods are very shakey legal ground and mod makers generally have no legal rights to anything they create, this has always been the case
Then it's wrong.
Mod makers should have the ability to sell what they create.
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
You could make your own MST3K-style commentary track and sell it though. There are different types of mods that are intertwined with the original game's intellectual property in varying ways.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
Why are you comparing mods to apple apps? A better comparison would be youtube videos
they aren't competing with other paid mods
they are competing with years of free mods
75% cut from them is garbage, I'm continually amazed by the immediate response of so many consumers to suck corporate wang, Bethesda's games on PC depend on the modding community
they're shitting where they eat right now, they should be taking 50% (valve+beth) at the most
The bethesda pc community certainly depends on the mods being there
But considering how well their games do on consoles with no mods, it seems pretty silly to think that Bethesda is somehow going to crumble without modders.
Or that the vast majority of consumers buy a game because of a modding community that eventually forms around said game.
Whether you're playing their game for a month without mods or a year with mods, it makes little difference to Bethesda's bottom line as long as they're able to keep DLC buyers engaged.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
This is like saying that K&N shouldn't be able to make money selling air filters for your Mustang.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I mean, there are mods like SkyUI that are legitimately useful bits of code put together well and supported constantly that are probably worth some money.
Then you have the mod that turns dragons into Macho Man Randy Savage. Which by all accounts it would probably be illegal to sell that mod (and probably even illegal to make it since that character is owned by the WWE and whatever that holding company is that owns the body scans.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
+1
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
oh I misread you. Yes iD and Epic and blizzard and Valve and Bethesda and every company ever has stopped people from selling mods
mods are very shakey legal ground and mod makers generally have no legal rights to anything they create, this has always been the case
I'd be careful about the "always" there. The DMCA wasn't "always" there and I'm guessing any legal basis for attacking mods is gonna be grounded in that so long as the modders are careful about trademarks.
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
They typically pay that fee so they can make a standalone version of the mod and make engine-level changes. There's likely no law against, say, selling your own Doom WADs, as long as you are not distributing the core game or other files without permission.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I mean, what is the difference between making a 'mod' for Skyrim, that requires you already own Skyrim to run, and any software that requires Windows to run? A lot of software actually makes use of Windows programming itself for displaying Windows. That's not original content. That's relying on Windows code.
If I write a Windows app, do I owe MS money? No? What if they disagree? Does MS have a legal standing to force me to pay them a royalty to make a Windows app? No?
So what's the difference?
PS. If I take a portion of Windows' code and use it, then absoultely MS will have a leg to stand on, but as long as I don't, then they can't stop me from selling my app.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Yes, this turkey-bacon-gouda sandwich was just what the summer storm Dr ordered.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I mean, what is the difference between making a 'mod' for Skyrim, that requires you already own Skyrim to run, and any software that requires Windows to run? A lot of software actually makes use of Windows programming itself for displaying Windows. That's not original content. That's relying on Windows code.
If I write a Windows app, do I owe MS money? No? What if they disagree? Does MS have a legal standing to force me to pay them a royalty to make a Windows app? No?
So what's the difference?
PS. If I take a portion of Windows' code and use it, then absoultely MS will have a leg to stand on, but as long as I don't, then they can't stop me from selling my app.
Though if they protected their platform with crypto and require a dev license, they could nail you with the DMCA.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
actually the very first thing on my mind is that this makes me much less likely to buy tabletop simulator because i anticipate this fucking the mod community porting board games to it
the whole point of buying tabletop simulator once i can afford it, for me, is to not have to buy the physical board game
which i guess is shitty towards the actual board game devs, but... myeh... *dismissive wave*
Finally, someone brave enough to take on Big Tabletop
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
I don't understand your point, are you talking about mods that specifically do not use any proprietary file format or in any way alters or uses the game engine? some kind of "inert" mod that uses no copyrighted or patented data?
if so no I don't I have heard of such a mod, but I guess they could be sold without permission? maybe? doubt there is much legal precedent on this
actually the very first thing on my mind is that this makes me much less likely to buy tabletop simulator because i anticipate this fucking the mod community porting board games to it
the whole point of buying tabletop simulator once i can afford it, for me, is to not have to buy the physical board game
which i guess is shitty towards the actual board game devs, but... myeh... *dismissive wave*
Finally, someone brave enough to take on Big Tabletop
Yeah man, fuck those fatcats swimming around in their money pools from the lucrative board game community.
Iirc Unreal Engine 4 takes a 5% cut of any games made with it
Free to use until you make X dollars. Think they said $1000 or something.
Given sufficient popularity you'd be better off just buying a license.
Generally, you are obligated to pay to Epic 5% of all gross revenue after the first $3,000 per game or application per calendar quarter, regardless of what company collects the revenue. For example, if your product earns $10 from sales on the App Store, the royalty due is $0.50 (5% of $10), even though you would receive roughly $7 from Apple after they deduct their distribution fee of roughly $3 (30% of $10).
Royalty payments are due 45 days after the close of each calendar quarter. Along with the payment, you must send a royalty report on a per-product basis. For more information, see here.
Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
I don't understand your point, are you talking about mods that specifically do not use any proprietary file format or in any way alters or uses the game engine? some kind of "inert" mod that uses no copyrighted or patented data?
if so no I don't I have heard of such a mod, but I guess they could be sold without permission? maybe? doubt there is much legal precedent on this
Not 'uses'. Redistributes. Can someone use a Skyrim mod without already owning a license for Skyrim?
Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
I don't understand your point, are you talking about mods that specifically do not use any proprietary file format or in any way alters or uses the game engine? some kind of "inert" mod that uses no copyrighted or patented data?
if so no I don't I have heard of such a mod, but I guess they could be sold without permission? maybe? doubt there is much legal precedent on this
Mods typically use the original game engine and assets, but don't distribute them.
What a modder distributes is their own created assets and their own code that enhances our adds to content already in an already purchased copy of the game. The fact that it requires those elements be present doesn't mean that the makers of the game have any claim on the content of the mod.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
Iirc Unreal Engine 4 takes a 5% cut of any games made with it
That's a mix of EULA and the fact that UE4 games necessarily distribute the engine.
I'd be really interested in seeing the ensuing legal battle if a developer sold the source for their game with instructions of how to download UE4, build, and play it.
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Iirc Unreal Engine 4 takes a 5% cut of any games made with it
Free to use until you make X dollars. Think they said $1000 or something.
Given sufficient popularity you'd be better off just buying a license.
Generally, you are obligated to pay to Epic 5% of all gross revenue after the first $3,000 per game or application per calendar quarter, regardless of what company collects the revenue. For example, if your product earns $10 from sales on the App Store, the royalty due is $0.50 (5% of $10), even though you would receive roughly $7 from Apple after they deduct their distribution fee of roughly $3 (30% of $10).
Royalty payments are due 45 days after the close of each calendar quarter. Along with the payment, you must send a royalty report on a per-product basis. For more information, see here.
that's pretty rough
though considering what a chimera 'net' profits are in video games it's probably understandable
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I mean, what is the difference between making a 'mod' for Skyrim, that requires you already own Skyrim to run, and any software that requires Windows to run? A lot of software actually makes use of Windows programming itself for displaying Windows. That's not original content. That's relying on Windows code.
If I write a Windows app, do I owe MS money? No? What if they disagree? Does MS have a legal standing to force me to pay them a royalty to make a Windows app? No?
So what's the difference?
PS. If I take a portion of Windows' code and use it, then absoultely MS will have a leg to stand on, but as long as I don't, then they can't stop me from selling my app.
Though if they protected their platform with crypto and require a dev license, they could nail you with the DMCA.
Sure.
Does Bethesda do that? Pretty sure the tools required to mod Skyrim are freely distributed.
I guess I should ask: Is there a requirement in the license for the modding tools (Can't remember what it's called offhand) that say you are not allowed to sell anything created with those tools? If there is, then that would make my argument pretty awkward.
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
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All Valve needs to do is make it clear that all mods are completely unlicensed as far as workshop is concerned. Valve will not be delisting copies or stolen work. They are not assumed copyrighted, they're not intellectual property of any kind, unless the creator explicitly goes through the trouble of establishing and defending those rights in a traditional sense. Absent that, it is not possible to pirate a mod. Buying something the marketplace is tantamount to a donation.
Not that any of this means that if you created a mod you need to provide the source or have an alternate distribution channel. Just that there is no implied intellectual property protection.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
the whole point of buying tabletop simulator once i can afford it, for me, is to not have to buy the physical board game
which i guess is shitty towards the actual board game devs, but... myeh... *dismissive wave*
Yes it does. It's an established practice.
And you're trying to make the case that these are lovingly crafted mods infused with the blood, sweat, and tears of their makers.
http://kotaku.com/the-most-ridiculous-skyrim-mods-people-are-trying-to-se-1700002072
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
You said:
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
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oh I misread you. Yes iD and Epic and blizzard and Valve and Bethesda and every company ever has stopped people from selling mods
mods are very shakey legal ground and mod makers generally have no legal rights to anything they create, this has always been the case
Then it's wrong.
Mod makers should have the ability to sell what they create.
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
You could make your own MST3K-style commentary track and sell it though. There are different types of mods that are intertwined with the original game's intellectual property in varying ways.
The bethesda pc community certainly depends on the mods being there
But considering how well their games do on consoles with no mods, it seems pretty silly to think that Bethesda is somehow going to crumble without modders.
Or that the vast majority of consumers buy a game because of a modding community that eventually forms around said game.
Whether you're playing their game for a month without mods or a year with mods, it makes little difference to Bethesda's bottom line as long as they're able to keep DLC buyers engaged.
Then you have the mod that turns dragons into Macho Man Randy Savage. Which by all accounts it would probably be illegal to sell that mod (and probably even illegal to make it since that character is owned by the WWE and whatever that holding company is that owns the body scans.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
I'd be careful about the "always" there. The DMCA wasn't "always" there and I'm guessing any legal basis for attacking mods is gonna be grounded in that so long as the modders are careful about trademarks.
They typically pay that fee so they can make a standalone version of the mod and make engine-level changes. There's likely no law against, say, selling your own Doom WADs, as long as you are not distributing the core game or other files without permission.
If I write a Windows app, do I owe MS money? No? What if they disagree? Does MS have a legal standing to force me to pay them a royalty to make a Windows app? No?
So what's the difference?
PS. If I take a portion of Windows' code and use it, then absoultely MS will have a leg to stand on, but as long as I don't, then they can't stop me from selling my app.
Though if they protected their platform with crypto and require a dev license, they could nail you with the DMCA.
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I don't understand your point, are you talking about mods that specifically do not use any proprietary file format or in any way alters or uses the game engine? some kind of "inert" mod that uses no copyrighted or patented data?
if so no I don't I have heard of such a mod, but I guess they could be sold without permission? maybe? doubt there is much legal precedent on this
Yeah man, fuck those fatcats swimming around in their money pools from the lucrative board game community.
Free to use until you make X dollars. Think they said $1000 or something.
Given sufficient popularity you'd be better off just buying a license.
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Not 'uses'. Redistributes. Can someone use a Skyrim mod without already owning a license for Skyrim?
Mods typically use the original game engine and assets, but don't distribute them.
What a modder distributes is their own created assets and their own code that enhances our adds to content already in an already purchased copy of the game. The fact that it requires those elements be present doesn't mean that the makers of the game have any claim on the content of the mod.
That's a mix of EULA and the fact that UE4 games necessarily distribute the engine.
I'd be really interested in seeing the ensuing legal battle if a developer sold the source for their game with instructions of how to download UE4, build, and play it.
that's pretty rough
though considering what a chimera 'net' profits are in video games it's probably understandable
But it's probably not
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Sure.
Does Bethesda do that? Pretty sure the tools required to mod Skyrim are freely distributed.
I guess I should ask: Is there a requirement in the license for the modding tools (Can't remember what it's called offhand) that say you are not allowed to sell anything created with those tools? If there is, then that would make my argument pretty awkward.
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