Jesus, I'm actually still trying to process someone here saying that they deserve someone else's work for free because it might get them a job at some point.
That's the way iD did it. That's the way Epic did it. I think. Did Epic hire people who participated in those Make Something Unreal contests?
Did iD or Epic stop modders from selling mods? I don't remember them doing so, but if they did, then they were in the wrong.
If they simply hired some modders who were doing mods, then that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
you specifically were shocked at the idea of expecting free mods though, at least as far as I understood you
which seemed strange considering that has been the status quo for a couple decades
So is unpaid interns. My objection is the same to both.
Mods are made by enthusiasts and should always remain free. If a mod maker puts in a billion hours and makes a professional-quality mod, their reward is devs will notice it and hire them.
I take issue with the 'should'. Why should they? Because you say so? Because companies get free publicity and the creators deserve no recompense for their time and effort?
Well, you answered that with "devs will notice it and hire them".
Which is the same as, "Come play music at my restaraunt. I won't pay you, but you get free publicity." and "Come work at my corporation. I won't pay you, but you get valuable experience."
you can't make your own edit of star wars and sell it online, no matter how many hours it took you, without permission (and likely money) going lucas arts/disney
That's not what I'm talking about.
Reselling someone else's creation is, of course, illegal.
But what about mods that only distribute 100% original content? Most mods aren't redistributing the game. They are only distributing their creations that require the user already own the game. Which means the content provided by Lucas Arts/Disney is already paid for.
If it is using the original games engine it is still using something owned by the original developer though
what you are describing though is something that has happened on multiple occasion, a group of modders build a very original game as a mod and then as it gets better they pay for a license to use the engines (source or unreal or whatever) and continue development but now sell it
so the developers of the mods have options that they can make money from, but they have to go through the hassle of acquiring the rights that mod making generally bypasses.
If they're redistributing the game's code, then yes.
Can you name ONE Skyrim mod that you can play without already having Skyrim installed?
I don't understand your point, are you talking about mods that specifically do not use any proprietary file format or in any way alters or uses the game engine? some kind of "inert" mod that uses no copyrighted or patented data?
if so no I don't I have heard of such a mod, but I guess they could be sold without permission? maybe? doubt there is much legal precedent on this
Mods typically use the original game engine and assets, but don't distribute them.
What a modder distributes is their own created assets and their own code that enhances our adds to content already in an already purchased copy of the game. The fact that it requires those elements be present doesn't mean that the makers of the game have any claim on the content of the mod.
Ah I see confusion, I don't think the makers of the game have rights over the mod no, they can't sell the mod somebody else created without permission either
mods have generally existed in this legal limbo where the mod maker can't sell their work (since it is derived and uses property of others) and neither can the game makers sell the mods (despite existing as a part of their game)
hence the reason why they are free
and why a guy like Icefrog could work for years on WarCraft3 mod and then take it with him and build a game with valve that he could charge money for (or at least charge for fancy hats)
he only had to rename the game and some stuff in it slightly avoid trampling on blizzard's toes
valves new idea is that the mod makers and game creator now team up to overcome this legal limbo to make money for both parties
There's no legal limbo.
Think of a mod as being like a plugin - a modded game runs as originally designed but certain components of it have been replaced. Say, for example, you wrote an ai script for the town guards in skyrim - you would distribute that as a mod that dives into the game scripting and replaces town_guard_combat.ai with another script. It "uses" the skyrim town guard art assets and so forth when it's executed by the game, but they don't form part of the mod, and don't need to be distributed with it.
It's useless as a piece of software except in the particular situation that it's added to an existing skyrim install, but given it's entirely your own work you can publish, distribute, license, or sell it as you see fit.
The requirement that you need to have bought skyrim to make use of it doesn't mean you owe Bethesda anything.
I guarantee you the game license prohibits you from interacting with the game in such way, these licenses aren't always held up in court but the case you describe almost certainly would be
EDIT: and there would probably be numerous other issues, such a mod would likely need to be compiled using proprietary tech into a proprietary file format for example
Depends on the game
A lot simply script in some commonly used language, Civ5 is mostly python, for example
I really doubt such eula terms could be made to stick, not least because it seems like you'd have to go after each person installing the mod individually
could you name any mod that fit your description and costs money?
I don't PC game, and haven't in years, so I'd probably point to the shareware scene for doom wads back in the day
They're even in a proprietary format
I'm not aware that any of them cost money either
But you kinda see what I'm getting at yes?
Whatever the legal reasons are (I certainly don't claim to know them well) mod makers simply haven't been able to charge money without permission from the publisher of the game they mod, at least I can't think of any that successfully did so in the last decade
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I would read the hell out of a Transistor novelization.
Science fiction is progressively all turning into Logan's Run. Organised culling of the population is the only way I can explain the shrinking population of future people who aren't attractive under-30s.
You'd have to be as old as @chanus to understand this reference.
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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Tav missed the best one:
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I'm not aware that any of them cost money either
But you kinda see what I'm getting at yes?
Whatever the legal reasons are (I certainly don't claim to know them well) mod makers simply haven't been able to charge money without permission from the publisher of the game they mod, at least I can't think of any that successfully did so in the last decade
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*spits*
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
@Eddy
where do you get it from? bf orders extra hot but never thinks its hot enough
As a grown-up i will deny it.
(to all you teens, i have successfully infiltrated the grown ups. They're all doo-doo heads.)
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i am not a ya so i do not
thai roses
I'm byernin up!
it's just too perfect for this flawed world for me to believe it
that commentary made me feel like i was watching something dirty
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
i watch the movie adaptations
Divergent was a steaming pile of shit... you know, like 6/10
I didn't read YA when I was a YA
6/10 is a passing grade.
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What grade-inflating ivy were you popped out of you ENTITLED SOCIALIST
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
what the fuck
don't try and pretend that's a real word
Don't streak at a Rugby game.
You'd have to be as old as @chanus to understand this reference.
I was going to make a crack about how the screen is 12x12 pixels, but no. I'm pretty thoroughly rekt.
Allegiant is an airline, I'm pretty sure.
I knew I was just a little more awesome than my awesomes implied
Is that an adjective of "allegiance"?
If no one volunteers, i'll just pick random names out of a hat.
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What kind of hat?
A virtual hat.
i have a long list of chatters i use for dorffort sometimes.
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Gengar would be a great Smash character.
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
I'll be someone
Whoever is cool, make me that person
I was listening to this and it was fucking perfect:
Desc claims poo