I have unopened copies of FFXIII and XIII-2 on my shelf for more than a year now because of people kept saying that it gets fun after 12 hours, I really want to play it though since it's the only FF series that I have not touched besides the first one
But 12 hours man, is everything worth it? I hope the story is at least more entertaining compared to XII
FF13 is fun after about an hour. If you like silly cut scenes it's fun right away.
The very first chapter is dull because your characters don't have any abilities yet, but after that it picks up.
Though if you don't like the combat system it's not going to hold your attention.
Ignore anyone that tells you the game has a 30 hour tutorial or whatever. If not having access to every single combat option counts as a tutorial, then all kinda of games have a "tutuorial" as long as FF13.
Now for about 20 people to come tell me all the ways I'm wrong.
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
the story and main characters are the weaker part of the game but I loved the side characters in your squad. some of the plot stuff was real dumb
"we can win without sacrificing anyone! except squads 1 and 3. sucks to be them"
Look, if there's one thing this game has taught me its that if you want A-ranks people are going to get shot just after charging enemy sandbags and hurling a grenade.
My problem with the combat in 13 is that you don't get a fair representation of the pace it has, and there is an incredible pace to 13's combat, for those first 12 hours.
It's the same problem with FF12, where setting up fun and interesting gambits do so much to make the game enjoyable, but they refuse to give you the good ones for quite a while.
SE just doesn't, in some cases, seem to have any confidence in their playerbase to give them the amazing tools they've designed for the game for far too long
The problem with designing giant sixty+ hour RPGs is that your battle system has to last that long too. That means it's not uncommon for its mechanics to be streeeeeeetched out in an effort to pace it through the game
Stilts I think you might be getting just a bit to angry about someone not liking a video game you like as much as you.
Or not liking it in the same way even.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, absolutely.
But I understand why Stilts would be angry when someone is playing through a game that ranks among his very favorite, and having someone pick apart almost every single aspect of it, including things that would be considered needlessly critical.
Once in a while it can lead to an interesting analysis, like the extended conversation I had with someone who claimed the ending to FFVI was hugely negative because the interpretation that
Terra losing her power so she can live a "normal life" is considered a commentary on women losing their independence so they can go and live a sheltered maternal role (in her case, going back to raising the kids at the orphanage).
I disagreed with the statement, but still respected it. It was an interesting viewpoint I never considered, and it was met with equal respect from both sides.
But having someone play through your favorite game and essentially going "Boy that sucks, boy that's stupid" every five minutes can admittedly get grating. I know from experience.
Imagine if your favourite game was filled to the brim with stupid bullshit, like say Resident Evil 4...
Sometimes folks don't like what you like. It's strange how that works out. Sometimes people hate things that are widely regarded as fantastic by almost everybody else, yeah that makes me go "huh?" too, and I might point out to the person that their perspective differs from that of the vast majority, but I'm not going to get angry at them or try to make them feel bad.
ah yes the legendary point where the game stops being a corridor simulator 30 hours in
too bad I threw it in the garbage just before I got that far
I'm almost 20 hours into FFX and its linearity has been pronounced, so far; the impression I've gotten is that people were upset at XIII for breaking away from this game's particular mode, but I can't imagine it's much more linear than this. The desert had some branching paths you could take to arrive at the same point, but it's definitely been a very strict point A -> point B affair so far
Not that I mind the linearity; having an adventure this structured can be kind of a relief
But the World of Ruin this ain't, and I'm not clear on where people see the big difference between XIII and this
FFX is about a very specific quest, and your path towards that goal, which is established at the very start of the game. You follow the yellow brick road to the Emerald City to see the wizard, because that's what people do.
FF13 unfortunately does not have that same focus, so its linearity doesn't serve any thematic point.
I'm reading an old interview with Yoko Taro and some of the other lead developers of Nier from a fan translation of the Grimoire Nier supplement book thingy. Around here I have been told that dad Nier was the more favored version of the story by the creators, but in this interview they say:
Yokoo: We somehow made it possible to release both “Replicant” and “Gestalt” at the same time, but there was a time when “Replicant” almost got called off.
Mr. T: Something like that did happen.
Yokoo: It took approximately 3 years for development, but during that time we were called to a meeting with America’s Square Enix to give a brief report on the game and its progress. Back then, we planned to release the two games earlier, so we were on a tight schedule. When we realized that during the meeting, those higher ups just reasoned “Can’t we just go with “Gestalt”? We could live with not releasing a special version in Japan, can’t we?” in english. (laughs)
-And what happened after that?
Yokoo: The producer Satou, who was sitting by my side, just sort of looked at me with a “…what do we do now?” face, and I just stuck to my opinion that I really didn’t want this. (laughs) If we can’t make “Replicant”, our development team’s motivation will go down like crazy, and as a result even “Gestalt” will be released later!? Are you okay with that!? Is what I threatened them with.
Mr. T: That was pretty selfish.
Yokoo: We planned to make a sibling story in the first place. Although back then “Replicant” was to be voiced in English, but there was some trouble with the voice actors.
Eishima: Now that’s news to me! If “Replicant” had English voices with subtitles, it might not have become such a topic of discussion.
Yokoo: Then producer Satou said “Let’s just do it with Japanese voices” at the last moment on a whim…maybe it was a wise decision.(laughs) So he adjusted the voice actors.
(Replicant: brother Nier, Japanese playstation version. Gestalt: dad Nier, Japanese xbox version and international version.)
That makes it sound like the brother Nier version was the primary one and they made the dad Nier version at least partly to make the story more appealing to western audiences, rather than making the dad version primarily and the brother version to make the story appeal more to Japanese audiences. Although making the voiceover be in english for the version designed to be more popular in Japan would have certainly been a weird decision.
Yes, he talks several times in that interview thing about how Brother Nier is the main version. The female designer in the group also seems obsessed with how cute Brother Nier is, and talks about how the other female workers talked about him a lot and liked him so much. And then there's the uh...hmm...no real nice way to put this.
How they clarify that Brother Nier became a prostitute to support Yonah, including going into detail about what type of experiences he had and how badly they affected him. While Papa Nier just did more odd jobs and killed monsters and stuff.
FF13 actually gives you a little taste of what the combat should be early on - you get a full party of three for an hour or two after the intro before Snow stays behind, then Lightning and Hope split off. You can get your shit totally wrecked by those little frogs right at the start!
Gameplay-wise, it's about 8 hours of gradually introducing mechanics, liberally interspersed with about as many hours of cutscenes before you get a full team again.
FFX is pretty much exactly as linear as XIII, yeah, but it's presented in a much better, more coherent manner, and has moments with downtime/varied gameplay in towns, temple puzzles, (awful) minigames and just generally people to talk to.
Yes, he talks several times in that interview thing about how Brother Nier is the main version. The female designer in the group also seems obsessed with how cute Brother Nier is, and talks about how the other female workers talked about him a lot and liked him so much. And then there's the uh...hmm...no real nice way to put this.
How they clarify that Brother Nier became a prostitute to support Yonah, including going into detail about what type of experiences he had and how badly they affected him. While Papa Nier just did more odd jobs and killed monsters and stuff.
...HUH. That's.... huh.
I wonder if Nier 2 will make any reference to Nier himself? I suppose they could get away with not showing him on-screen, but it might be difficult to work around the relationship between him and Yonah if she's in the game.
A sort of rule I learned in creative writing classes,
is that if you can't find one good thing to say about a piece of media
your critique is crap
There are virtually no rules that can't be broken, in writing. But he's not even making a critique (which, since it's Wyborn, would be something around three pages long), he's posting for fun as he plays along the game for the first time.
"You really don't seem to be liking it, so you should consider stopping" is a fair comment in situations where people really seem to be hating everything about a game. I've said as much to other forumers before. But Wyborn has assured everyone he's having fun, so the above is not exactly applicable.
If you want the honest opinion of someone who likes to write snark about the media they're experiencing, wait to ask them AFTER they finish said media and have all the pieces together.
Yes, he talks several times in that interview thing about how Brother Nier is the main version. The female designer in the group also seems obsessed with how cute Brother Nier is, and talks about how the other female workers talked about him a lot and liked him so much. And then there's the uh...hmm...no real nice way to put this.
How they clarify that Brother Nier became a prostitute to support Yonah, including going into detail about what type of experiences he had and how badly they affected him. While Papa Nier just did more odd jobs and killed monsters and stuff.
...HUH. That's.... huh.
I wonder if Nier 2 will make any reference to Nier himself? I suppose they could get away with not showing him on-screen, but it might be difficult to work around the relationship between him and Yonah if she's in the game.
Copied full sail from the Darkengard 3 LP thread and "Pulled from Dengeki by Drakengard-3.com.", spoilers for Nier here, sort of:
-New game takes place after Ending D of Nier.
-Neither Gestalts nor Replicants will be in it.
-There will be name drops, but Emil will appear in person. Accord will be mentioned by name! Another character that is unnamed but shocked the reporters will appear.
-Yoko Taro says new people can play the game without getting lost, but he is afraid fans of the series will be angry with him.
-Yoko taro claims there is a happy ending, the other staff there disagree.
-The junk heap will be revisited in some form. Oh joy.
-Drakengard-3.com's owner translates the celestrial text as "Angel Human Robot"
-Yoko Taro's love of shooters means that will make an appearence, but other genres are unlikely? (I have seen reports/interviews report that it WILL or WON'T have multiple genres, confused on this personally.)
-Lots of weapons.
-3 playable characters, you cannot freely swap between them, but some may unlock with endings. The multiple endings will work differently from the other drakengard/nier games
-Emi Evans confirmed, get hype.
-Game was initially slated for phones or vita but they decided to go all out and do it right.
-The plot is almost done now, delves deeper into 'the world of Yoko Taro'
Now that I know how the affection system works I'm going to keep focusing on Lulu in the vain hope that she will dunk on Tidus as hard as she did during that moment when he said he had the hots for her
FFX is about a very specific quest, and your path towards that goal, which is established at the very start of the game. You follow the yellow brick road to the Emerald City to see the wizard, because that's what people do.
FF13 unfortunately does not have that same focus, so its linearity doesn't serve any thematic point.
Also this is an interesting point, but I think I might find it more compelling if Tidus went in knowing what temples they were going to or in what order. He does get told that around the time he goes "LEt's return to this gorgeous river when Yuna's totally not dead" but that was like 15 hours in
I can see how linearity without a sense of direction would be frustrating, though. I guess we'll end up seeing when me and @SilverWind do a full-on LP of FF13 that she's not getting out of
A sort of rule I learned in creative writing classes,
is that if you can't find one good thing to say about a piece of media
your critique is crap
There are virtually no rules that can't be broken, in writing. But he's not even making a critique (which, since it's Wyborn, would be something around three pages long), he's posting for fun as he plays along the game for the first time.
"You really don't seem to be liking it, so you should consider stopping" is a fair comment in situations where people really seem to be hating everything about a game. I've said as much to other forumers before. But Wyborn has assured everyone he's having fun, so the above is not exactly applicable.
if you're actually creating something, yes, you can break any rule
but you fucking shouldn't unless you have a very good reason to (because EVERYONE likes to think they're above basic writing rules, and then they write shit)
*autotune*
~critique isn't the same thing~
Miss me? Find me on:
Twitch (I stream most days of the week) Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
A sort of rule I learned in creative writing classes,
is that if you can't find one good thing to say about a piece of media
your critique is crap
There are virtually no rules that can't be broken, in writing. But he's not even making a critique (which, since it's Wyborn, would be something around three pages long), he's posting for fun as he plays along the game for the first time.
"You really don't seem to be liking it, so you should consider stopping" is a fair comment in situations where people really seem to be hating everything about a game. I've said as much to other forumers before. But Wyborn has assured everyone he's having fun, so the above is not exactly applicable.
if you're actually creating something, yes, you can break any rule
but you fucking shouldn't unless you have a very good reason to (because EVERYONE likes to think they're above basic writing rules, and then they write shit)
*autotune*
~critique isn't the same thing~
I'm not participating in a collaborative creative process for FFX like you would get in a creative writing class; a critique in this context is an examination of a subject according to specific criteria and does not need to "find one good thing to say" in order to be a quality critique. Criticism isn't about nice or not nice, positive or negative, it's about examination and exploration.
But, as SilverWind said, I'm not doing a critique of FFX. I'm making silly posts as I play it.
Yes, he talks several times in that interview thing about how Brother Nier is the main version. The female designer in the group also seems obsessed with how cute Brother Nier is, and talks about how the other female workers talked about him a lot and liked him so much. And then there's the uh...hmm...no real nice way to put this.
How they clarify that Brother Nier became a prostitute to support Yonah, including going into detail about what type of experiences he had and how badly they affected him. While Papa Nier just did more odd jobs and killed monsters and stuff.
...HUH. That's.... huh.
I wonder if Nier 2 will make any reference to Nier himself? I suppose they could get away with not showing him on-screen, but it might be difficult to work around the relationship between him and Yonah if she's in the game.
Copied full sail from the Darkengard 3 LP thread and "Pulled from Dengeki by Drakengard-3.com.", spoilers for Nier here, sort of:
-New game takes place after Ending D of Nier.
-Neither Gestalts nor Replicants will be in it.
-There will be name drops, but Emil will appear in person. Accord will be mentioned by name! Another character that is unnamed but shocked the reporters will appear.
-Yoko Taro says new people can play the game without getting lost, but he is afraid fans of the series will be angry with him.
-Yoko taro claims there is a happy ending, the other staff there disagree.
-The junk heap will be revisited in some form. Oh joy.
-Drakengard-3.com's owner translates the celestrial text as "Angel Human Robot"
-Yoko Taro's love of shooters means that will make an appearence, but other genres are unlikely? (I have seen reports/interviews report that it WILL or WON'T have multiple genres, confused on this personally.)
-Lots of weapons.
-3 playable characters, you cannot freely swap between them, but some may unlock with endings. The multiple endings will work differently from the other drakengard/nier games
-Emi Evans confirmed, get hype.
-Game was initially slated for phones or vita but they decided to go all out and do it right.
-The plot is almost done now, delves deeper into 'the world of Yoko Taro'
so we can probably expect this to be another patented Yoko Taro "everything is awful and then you die, with 5 branching tragic endings" sort of story I guess
good, good
I'll watch a stream of Wyborn and Silverwind MST3K'ing through FFXIII
This would be text, and also less "full LP" as "I make running commentary while SilverWind tries to knit so fiercely that all external stimuli blur into a nonsensical slurry"
I don't think either of us has what it takes for an actual recording
Dubh, I'm not sure why you're being as aggressive as you are in this. I already said I would tone down the joking and apologized for taking on a tone that took away from the fun of some of the thread participants. I don't know how much more you can reasonably expect me to do with regards to making light-hearted posts about Final Fantasy.
A sort of rule I learned in creative writing classes,
is that if you can't find one good thing to say about a piece of media
your critique is crap
There are virtually no rules that can't be broken, in writing. But he's not even making a critique (which, since it's Wyborn, would be something around three pages long), he's posting for fun as he plays along the game for the first time.
"You really don't seem to be liking it, so you should consider stopping" is a fair comment in situations where people really seem to be hating everything about a game. I've said as much to other forumers before. But Wyborn has assured everyone he's having fun, so the above is not exactly applicable.
if you're actually creating something, yes, you can break any rule
but you fucking shouldn't unless you have a very good reason to (because EVERYONE likes to think they're above basic writing rules, and then they write shit)
*autotune*
~critique isn't the same thing~
It depends on what the point of the critique is.
If your critique is directed toward a work in progress (say, in a creative writing class) then yeah, you should absolutely find the good parts of a work and make sure to bring those up, however minor they may be.
But if you're writing for an audience and critiquing a finished work, it's not a requirement to discuss or even look for something good to say if it's not a valuable contribution to your piece.
If I have, let's say, a thousand words to discuss a movie I think fails on every fundamental visual and narrative level, I'm not going to waste any space mentioning how the bullet sound effects seemed competent. I'm going to focus on what's important, and if the important parts are all bad, then that's what gets written about.
Of course, very few works fall that far on the bad side of things, but if someone thinks something is that bad, I'm not going to disregard their input just because they didn't make a criticism sandwich.
In the sense that you're continuing to focus on one point well past where I've addressed it, and to the exclusion of other parts of the conversation, yes. More, I think you're also being pretty dismissive of anything I have to say on the matter, which isn't making for a balanced conversation. I'm not asking you to sit back and consider the finer implications of any particular thing I have to say, but I would appreciate it if we got to a point in this conversation where I didn't feel like concessions I'm making are being ignored.
Pretend that a giant movie screen is playing FFX, and Wyborn is the tiny silhouette of Tom Servo shouting silly things as the game progresses. Not everyone's cup of tea, but I've always found that style of thing to be pretty funny, even if the silly things are not entirely 'fair'
I suspect we'll get a real run-down of his thoughts when he's completed the game, and we will know this by the novel-length posts dissecting the plot
Posts
FF13 is fun after about an hour. If you like silly cut scenes it's fun right away.
The very first chapter is dull because your characters don't have any abilities yet, but after that it picks up.
Though if you don't like the combat system it's not going to hold your attention.
Ignore anyone that tells you the game has a 30 hour tutorial or whatever. If not having access to every single combat option counts as a tutorial, then all kinda of games have a "tutuorial" as long as FF13.
Now for about 20 people to come tell me all the ways I'm wrong.
Look, if there's one thing this game has taught me its that if you want A-ranks people are going to get shot just after charging enemy sandbags and hurling a grenade.
It's the same problem with FF12, where setting up fun and interesting gambits do so much to make the game enjoyable, but they refuse to give you the good ones for quite a while.
SE just doesn't, in some cases, seem to have any confidence in their playerbase to give them the amazing tools they've designed for the game for far too long
She did have some interesting concept art.
But they went with what they went with.
That black dress version does look a bit like the female character that is potentially Kaine in the Nier 2 trailer, hmm?
Story is serviceable, but Lightning's development is real morose. What an edgelord.
Imagine if your favourite game was filled to the brim with stupid bullshit, like say Resident Evil 4...
Sometimes folks don't like what you like. It's strange how that works out. Sometimes people hate things that are widely regarded as fantastic by almost everybody else, yeah that makes me go "huh?" too, and I might point out to the person that their perspective differs from that of the vast majority, but I'm not going to get angry at them or try to make them feel bad.
That is not what happened here.
And it is a little insulting that some people seem to think that's why I spoke up.
is that if you can't find one good thing to say about a piece of media
your critique is crap
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I'm almost 20 hours into FFX and its linearity has been pronounced, so far; the impression I've gotten is that people were upset at XIII for breaking away from this game's particular mode, but I can't imagine it's much more linear than this. The desert had some branching paths you could take to arrive at the same point, but it's definitely been a very strict point A -> point B affair so far
Not that I mind the linearity; having an adventure this structured can be kind of a relief
But the World of Ruin this ain't, and I'm not clear on where people see the big difference between XIII and this
FF13 unfortunately does not have that same focus, so its linearity doesn't serve any thematic point.
(Replicant: brother Nier, Japanese playstation version. Gestalt: dad Nier, Japanese xbox version and international version.)
That makes it sound like the brother Nier version was the primary one and they made the dad Nier version at least partly to make the story more appealing to western audiences, rather than making the dad version primarily and the brother version to make the story appeal more to Japanese audiences. Although making the voiceover be in english for the version designed to be more popular in Japan would have certainly been a weird decision.
Gameplay-wise, it's about 8 hours of gradually introducing mechanics, liberally interspersed with about as many hours of cutscenes before you get a full team again.
FFX is pretty much exactly as linear as XIII, yeah, but it's presented in a much better, more coherent manner, and has moments with downtime/varied gameplay in towns, temple puzzles, (awful) minigames and just generally people to talk to.
...HUH. That's.... huh.
I wonder if Nier 2 will make any reference to Nier himself? I suppose they could get away with not showing him on-screen, but it might be difficult to work around the relationship between him and Yonah if she's in the game.
There are virtually no rules that can't be broken, in writing. But he's not even making a critique (which, since it's Wyborn, would be something around three pages long), he's posting for fun as he plays along the game for the first time.
"You really don't seem to be liking it, so you should consider stopping" is a fair comment in situations where people really seem to be hating everything about a game. I've said as much to other forumers before. But Wyborn has assured everyone he's having fun, so the above is not exactly applicable.
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
My ACNH Wishlists | My ACNH Catalog
Copied full sail from the Darkengard 3 LP thread and "Pulled from Dengeki by Drakengard-3.com.", spoilers for Nier here, sort of:
-Neither Gestalts nor Replicants will be in it.
-There will be name drops, but Emil will appear in person. Accord will be mentioned by name! Another character that is unnamed but shocked the reporters will appear.
-Yoko Taro says new people can play the game without getting lost, but he is afraid fans of the series will be angry with him.
-Yoko taro claims there is a happy ending, the other staff there disagree.
-The junk heap will be revisited in some form. Oh joy.
-Drakengard-3.com's owner translates the celestrial text as "Angel Human Robot"
-Yoko Taro's love of shooters means that will make an appearence, but other genres are unlikely? (I have seen reports/interviews report that it WILL or WON'T have multiple genres, confused on this personally.)
-Lots of weapons.
-3 playable characters, you cannot freely swap between them, but some may unlock with endings. The multiple endings will work differently from the other drakengard/nier games
-Emi Evans confirmed, get hype.
-Game was initially slated for phones or vita but they decided to go all out and do it right.
-The plot is almost done now, delves deeper into 'the world of Yoko Taro'
Ravana is the most anime, isn't he?
Also this is an interesting point, but I think I might find it more compelling if Tidus went in knowing what temples they were going to or in what order. He does get told that around the time he goes "LEt's return to this gorgeous river when Yuna's totally not dead" but that was like 15 hours in
I can see how linearity without a sense of direction would be frustrating, though. I guess we'll end up seeing when me and @SilverWind do a full-on LP of FF13 that she's not getting out of
if you're actually creating something, yes, you can break any rule
but you fucking shouldn't unless you have a very good reason to (because EVERYONE likes to think they're above basic writing rules, and then they write shit)
*autotune*
~critique isn't the same thing~
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I'm not participating in a collaborative creative process for FFX like you would get in a creative writing class; a critique in this context is an examination of a subject according to specific criteria and does not need to "find one good thing to say" in order to be a quality critique. Criticism isn't about nice or not nice, positive or negative, it's about examination and exploration.
But, as SilverWind said, I'm not doing a critique of FFX. I'm making silly posts as I play it.
Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227
My ACNH Wishlists | My ACNH Catalog
We get to hear somnambulist Liara yell at people
Or I could put it in Japanese! Our Chinese copy lets us do that!
You were just asking me about MST3K and now we will learn together
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
so we can probably expect this to be another patented Yoko Taro "everything is awful and then you die, with 5 branching tragic endings" sort of story I guess
good, good
This would be text, and also less "full LP" as "I make running commentary while SilverWind tries to knit so fiercely that all external stimuli blur into a nonsensical slurry"
I don't think either of us has what it takes for an actual recording
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Why should it be?
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
It depends on what the point of the critique is.
If your critique is directed toward a work in progress (say, in a creative writing class) then yeah, you should absolutely find the good parts of a work and make sure to bring those up, however minor they may be.
But if you're writing for an audience and critiquing a finished work, it's not a requirement to discuss or even look for something good to say if it's not a valuable contribution to your piece.
If I have, let's say, a thousand words to discuss a movie I think fails on every fundamental visual and narrative level, I'm not going to waste any space mentioning how the bullet sound effects seemed competent. I'm going to focus on what's important, and if the important parts are all bad, then that's what gets written about.
Of course, very few works fall that far on the bad side of things, but if someone thinks something is that bad, I'm not going to disregard their input just because they didn't make a criticism sandwich.
because I wasn't finding any of it super funny
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
In the sense that you're continuing to focus on one point well past where I've addressed it, and to the exclusion of other parts of the conversation, yes. More, I think you're also being pretty dismissive of anything I have to say on the matter, which isn't making for a balanced conversation. I'm not asking you to sit back and consider the finer implications of any particular thing I have to say, but I would appreciate it if we got to a point in this conversation where I didn't feel like concessions I'm making are being ignored.
I suspect we'll get a real run-down of his thoughts when he's completed the game, and we will know this by the novel-length posts dissecting the plot