Gosh I love it when people talk about my body as a depersonalized thing
I don't think many of us are talking about your body, since you didn't solicit the health goals we're talking about and they may not apply to what you care about at all. However, it's interesting to know where preventive health science is at; I just want to make sure people have their numbers correct when making assertions.
As a side note, waist circumference - height ratio may completely replace weight as the health measure, so look for that in the future.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
What's being talked about is overall morbidity and mortality. For white, Hispanic and black people, >25 is at least overweight. For Asians, it's >23, although there is literature suggesting Asians derive a mortality benefit from being in the overweight range. Dunno, literature changes.
It doesn't stop there. Abdominal obesity is where it's at, so if you're overweight but not morbidly obese, waist circumference makes your BMI risk category more valid. I'd worry less about a high BMI if your waist circumference was <102cm in men, <88cm in women, <90 in Asian men, or <80 in Asian women. If your numbers are bad in both measures, it's really up to a doctor to make the call if losing weight will add more years to your life.
What I'm saying. Generally speaking us black folks especially women have bigger thighs/butts in relation to our waists. So us weighing a bit more with the same waist size isn't abnormal.
So making a blanket statement about general weight is a bit short-sighted imo.
What's being talked about is overall morbidity and mortality. For white, Hispanic and black people, >25 is at least overweight. For Asians, it's >23, although there is literature suggesting Asians derive a mortality benefit from being in the overweight range. Dunno, literature changes.
It doesn't stop there. Abdominal obesity is where it's at, so if you're overweight but not morbidly obese, waist circumference makes your BMI risk category more valid. I'd worry less about a high BMI if your waist circumference was <102cm in men, <88cm in women, <90 in Asian men, or <80 in Asian women. If your numbers are bad in both measures, it's really up to a doctor to make the call if losing weight will add more years to your life.
What I'm saying. Generally speaking us black folks especially women have bigger thighs/butts in relation to our waists. So us weighing a bit more with the same waist size isn't abnormal.
So making a blanket statement about general weight is a bit short-sighted imo.
That's all preventive screening really is, a blanket statement that hopefully catches all at risk but is not necessarily the end all / be all. However, at certain really high BMIs, it actually does get pretty specific; I'd put good money on anyone over 35 as being in their appropriate risk category.
Like I said though, it's improving all the time, and we're starting to take into consideration your particular issue. That doesn't mean it'll be best to wait until the test is absolutely perfect. You know, work with what you've got.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. Like I've had one doctor tell me I needed to be around 210. Another told me 240. So I'm just going to go with what works for me.
Speaking of weight, apparently over the last year or two I've put on weight (this is not a bad thing, I changed from a job where I was stood all day to sitting, plus age, getting over a period of being down, I like my figure a lot more now etc) and I am now exactly on the minimum to be able to give blood, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Anyway on to happier things.
I'm wondering if I should put off clothes shopping until I drop a couple of waist sizes.
My old clothes are starting to look baggy but I don't want the same to happen with any new clothes I buy.
Speaking of weight, apparently over the last year or two I've put on weight (this is not a bad thing, I changed from a job where I was stood all day to sitting, plus age, getting over a period of being down, I like my figure a lot more now etc) and I am now exactly on the minimum to be able to give blood, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
They do a finger prick test to determine if you're too anemic or whatever before they actually set you up for reals.
Recovery after donating blood is different for everybody, though. They'll have food and drink available after donating, so my advice would be to sit down for more time than you'd think you need, and drink lots of fluids, sugary drinks are actually better than water in this case, and snacks. Some places will even give their donors a full meal, which I would take advantage of if possible. If you can, arrange a ride to/from, or make sure you're very close to home since you definitely don't want to be driving, and you'll want to take it relatively easy for even several hours afterwards, so walking long distances isn't advised.
Speaking of weight, apparently over the last year or two I've put on weight (this is not a bad thing, I changed from a job where I was stood all day to sitting, plus age, getting over a period of being down, I like my figure a lot more now etc) and I am now exactly on the minimum to be able to give blood, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
They do a finger prick test to determine if you're too anemic or whatever before they actually set you up for reals.
Recovery after donating blood is different for everybody, though. They'll have food and rink available after donating, so my advice would be to sit down for more time than you'd think you need, and drink lots of fluids, sugary drinks are actually better than water in this case, and snacks. Some places will even give their donors a full meal, which I would take advantage of if possible.
Thanks Javen, I've never done it before so good to know what I should take and how it works!
Yeah. Like I've had one doctor tell me I needed to be around 210. Another told me 240. So I'm just going to go with what works for me.
That's not something I can gauge over the Internet. With that variation, one of those doctors is mistaken. Your recommendations will vary widely depending on several non-weight factors. It really depends more on what your goals and capabilities are, and if they don't take that into consideration, they'll never get anywhere. It's hard advising weight maintenance.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Bugger it all. I want to focus on loosing weight, but it never feels as though its a right time to do so. So right now I try to eat right, drink a protein milkshake before I lift, and accept my medium gains every week. I figure when I plateau and can't increase my lifts anymore would be a prime time to actually diet/cut, but I haven't actually reached that point yet.
That's why the thread title's "weight management" in case anyone was interested; America especially is hella focused on weight loss and that isn't always the thing and there's a whole lot of harmful shit that gets thrown at people specifically over weight. It's not really a metric that you can make objective blanket statements about and be right, except on the extreme ends.
I'm wondering if I should put off clothes shopping until I drop a couple of waist sizes.
My old clothes are starting to look baggy but I don't want the same to happen with any new clothes I buy.
Buy new clothes. You'll feel better and look better - both friends and strangers will notice. It's a nice emotional payoff for the all the hard work - I've had to do it twice so far, and consider it a perk of getting fit now.
Speaking of weight, apparently over the last year or two I've put on weight (this is not a bad thing, I changed from a job where I was stood all day to sitting, plus age, getting over a period of being down, I like my figure a lot more now etc) and I am now exactly on the minimum to be able to give blood, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
They do a finger prick test to determine if you're too anemic or whatever before they actually set you up for reals.
Recovery after donating blood is different for everybody, though. They'll have food and rink available after donating, so my advice would be to sit down for more time than you'd think you need, and drink lots of fluids, sugary drinks are actually better than water in this case, and snacks. Some places will even give their donors a full meal, which I would take advantage of if possible.
Thanks Javen, I've never done it before so good to know what I should take and how it works!
Good on you for planning to donate! I will say that at first glance they can seem very...choosy in regards to who they accept for donations. Anemia and iron deficiency are sine of the most common reasons, and it actually doesn't have a whole lot to do with pure bodyweight, so don't feel bad if they decide you aren't a good fit. It may be something completely out of your control.
Speaking of weight, apparently over the last year or two I've put on weight (this is not a bad thing, I changed from a job where I was stood all day to sitting, plus age, getting over a period of being down, I like my figure a lot more now etc) and I am now exactly on the minimum to be able to give blood, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
They do a finger prick test to determine if you're too anemic or whatever before they actually set you up for reals.
Recovery after donating blood is different for everybody, though. They'll have food and rink available after donating, so my advice would be to sit down for more time than you'd think you need, and drink lots of fluids, sugary drinks are actually better than water in this case, and snacks. Some places will even give their donors a full meal, which I would take advantage of if possible.
Thanks Javen, I've never done it before so good to know what I should take and how it works!
Good on you for planning to donate! I will say that at first glance they can seem very...choosy in regards to who they accept for donations. Anemia and iron deficiency are sine of the most common reasons, and it actually doesn't have a whole lot to do with pure bodyweight, so don't feel bad if they decide you aren't a good fit. It may be something completely out of your control.
I didn't know that, so thats a good heads up in case they do turn me down.
I can't help him choose between the two weight recommendations provided by his physicians, but I can give context on the basis on which these recommendations are made. Unless people are obese, I have no absolute rules to offer. In my posts above, I have always included the caveat that the numbers serve as a guideline to take a second, more in-depth look and not as the final measure. I offer no direct medical advice to anyone in particular.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
My favourite roasted red pepper and tomato soup recipe http://allrecipes.com/recipe/13004/roasted-red-pepper-and-tomato-soup/
(I'd recommend skipping the sour cream, or reducing it to a dollop, and making your own stock instead of canned/cartoned broth, which can have really high sodium) -- this involves bits of roasted pepper in the soup, but if you're still getting used to the idea of eating peppers, by all means blend it all up into a pulp
Cauliflower and Campbell's cream of mushroom soup http://www.campbellskitchen.com/recipes/easy-cauliflower-gratin-50466
This last one isn't the most healthful, but it's certainly a great way to get used to cauliflower. My mom made it a lot growing up, though she skipped the cheese and bacon (so.. cook the cauliflower and then dredge it in a can of Campbell's :P )
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
It doesn't work that way.
I understand it's a sensitive issue, but trust me when I say I will be the last person to judge others by their character, appearance, and how they are perceived. My thesis was that BMI is not a useless tool; it's not perfect, but it's sufficiently grounded in biometric science to be worth knowing, and worth knowing correctly. I saw that we were throwing down some general numbers, and I made them accurate.
I apologize for the dramatic spiel, but I respect your concerns too much to give a blithe answer, and I want to make sure my intentions are fully understood, regardless of the success of their delivery.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Thanks for the recipes and links @SilverWind. I especially like the look of those zucchini crisps, so I think I'll be adding some veggies to the grocery list.
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
It doesn't work that way.
I understand it's a sensitive issue, but trust me when I say I will be the last person to judge others by their character, appearance, and how they are perceived. My thesis was that BMI is not a useless tool; it's not perfect, but it's sufficiently grounded in biometric science to be worth knowing, and worth knowing correctly. I saw that we were throwing down some general numbers, and I made them accurate.
I apologize for the dramatic spiel, but I respect your concerns too much to give a blithe answer, and I want to make sure my intentions are fully understood, regardless of the success of their delivery.
You're not correct, though. It's not particularly useful on a per-person basis, and weight/health correlates are not the direct causal link you seem to think. There are some negative health metrics that often (NOT ALWAYS) increase with greater weight, and those may have a correlate with increased morbidity. The weight itself is not necessarily an issue, especially when we're talking about not-very-very-obese people*. Additionally, carrying some extra weight has been shown to help your long term chances at fighting off cancer, for example.
*fatty tissue around the heart, for example, is probably a concern, but not everyone who is fat has that problem. Joint injury can be a problem for the very large, but not all. A lot of the forumers that you are talking (yes you are talking about people who are here and reading this) about are fit and healthy and just not within the bullshit BMI metrics, which btw are not set in stone and used to be different anyway. Science updates itself, medicine more often than most.
And you are judging. You are judging people's health, based on one metric which isn't even a particularly good overall tool. You cannot tell precisely how healthy someone is by just knowing their weight and BMI, and you can't even make a particularly good stab in the dark unless they've very very large. And for a lot of people, the minuscule statistical heath gains made by dropping that last 20-30 pounds definitely do not outweigh the stress and mental energy expenditure required to keep that weight off.
And this is why I stay the fuck out of this thread when it turns too heavily to dieting, because a lot of people start telling others they're doing their body wrong without even meeting them.
Lost Salientblink twiceif you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered Userregular
edited September 2015
I think the nice thing about this thread generally is that everyone is here to support and offer things that they've found useful and science that they feel could be advantageous to know. It's just the case that so much emotional balance is tied in to weight and appearance and the implications of being considered fat, that it's really difficult to offer advice in a way that is supportive of effort but not inadvertently (or... vertently? uhh) shaming of body types. It's a super sensitive thing to touch on, so doing it 'the right way' can be nearly impossible. Also, perceived physical health and how closely their appearance fits an often-arbitrary norm is something that people are hyperaware of, so even when the judgment is unintentional, its effects can be very detrimental to the maintenance of a positive mindset toward fitness or weight goals.
...Anyway, today I went for a 5k at 10:00 a.m. and it sucked all of the asses. Full-on allergy-related tightness of breath, the holes in my feet were killing me, and I wore shorts inappropriate for the humidity so the hem of the left leg chaffed my right inner thigh all to fuck.
THIS DIDN'T USED TO HAPPEN, hhargghhhh. I'm trying really hard to use a calendar to track my exercise and get back into a regular pattern. Baby steps, baby steps...
Lost Salient on
"Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
It doesn't work that way.
I understand it's a sensitive issue, but trust me when I say I will be the last person to judge others by their character, appearance, and how they are perceived. My thesis was that BMI is not a useless tool; it's not perfect, but it's sufficiently grounded in biometric science to be worth knowing, and worth knowing correctly. I saw that we were throwing down some general numbers, and I made them accurate.
I apologize for the dramatic spiel, but I respect your concerns too much to give a blithe answer, and I want to make sure my intentions are fully understood, regardless of the success of their delivery.
You're not correct, though. It's not particularly useful on a per-person basis, and weight/health correlates are not the direct causal link you seem to think. There are some negative health metrics that often (NOT ALWAYS) increase with greater weight, and those may have a correlate with increased morbidity. The weight itself is not necessarily an issue, especially when we're talking about not-very-very-obese people*. Additionally, carrying some extra weight has been shown to help your long term chances at fighting off cancer, for example.
*fatty tissue around the heart, for example, is probably a concern, but not everyone who is fat has that problem. Joint injury can be a problem for the very large, but not all. A lot of the forumers that you are talking (yes you are talking about people who are here and reading this) about are fit and healthy and just not within the bullshit BMI metrics, which btw are not set in stone and used to be different anyway. Science updates itself, medicine more often than most.
And you are judging. You are judging people's health, based on one metric which isn't even a particularly good overall tool. You cannot tell precisely how healthy someone is by just knowing their weight and BMI, and you can't even make a particularly good stab in the dark unless they've very very large. And for a lot of people, the minuscule statistical heath gains made by dropping that last 20-30 pounds definitely do not outweigh the stress and mental energy expenditure required to keep that weight off.
And this is why I stay the fuck out of this thread when it turns too heavily to dieting, because a lot of people start telling others they're doing their body wrong without even meeting them.
Yes, finally. Indeed, weight is a distanced issue from actual health risk, but given that we don't have an affordable, practical method to keep track of fat accumulation and distribution, it is currently the best we've got. A lot of our clinical measures are secondary effects of true disease process. I'm as anxious to get past it as you are, but it is emblematic of the assumptions we make when we say, "based on this data, people your age have a X% increased risk in Y% condition." And not enough people take that with the grain of salt it needs.
And I believe it is a good tool. For screening. It doesn't have to be a specific tool for screening, which is I think where the misunderstanding is coming from. When a doctor tells you that "your BMI classifies you as overweight," that doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the doctor, regardless of the vernacular connotations, because that's only the start of what it means for you. It could mean nothing - you're bulked up, you have no cardiovascular or metabolic risk factors, there are as yet undetermined genetic and lifestyle factors that make a weight outside the statistical confines of NEJM literature okay and even optimum for you. Yet it is used widely because it is effective for the majority of people and has no significant harms.
But it does have significant harms, demonstrated here, in our culture and our language. "Underweight," "overweight," "obese," "morbidly obese" have vernacular consequences as labels even though they absolutely shouldn't. Like you said, the numbers are always changing, and a person that was overweight then isn't overweight now, and vice versa. The stigma is real and it is preposterous, and that is why I believe it's important to get educated about the standards of this tool, its uses, and most importantly its limits.
I have taken every opportunity to label it as a screening tool and make a disclaimer that where you fall on it merits consideration and not final judgment. This is important and I'll repeat it as many times as necessary, because the lack of awareness of the basic medical concepts of sensitivity and specificity is where all the unnecessary harm comes from. The initial test a doctor does has an increased risk of wrongly labeling you as sick because they use it to catch all the people who are sick, including several who are healthy. This is because later, they can do a more accurate test, probably more invasive, on this reduced population to pick out the ones that actually are sick and release the healthy ones back into the wild. That's because tests are usually either "sensitive" (makes sure it scoops up every abnormal result) or "specific" (makes sure it DOESN'T scoop up every normal result) and we pair them like so to reduce the harm from flat out wrong results, though they do happen.
And you're right about BMI, it is BS. There are plenty of promising biometic tests down the pipeline that are just waiting to supplant it in practice guidelines after they get enough multicenter trials. Waist circumference is already one and is used as a metric in diagnosing metabolic syndrome, while BMI gets left in the dust. There's even promising work on using height/waist ratios and forgoing weight entirely; if that works, it'll be great. But BMI is not BS enough that it's useless, even when faced with these new measures. Misunderstood, definitely. But even for people who are not very very obese, it still has its uses as an inexpensive quantitative measure to screen and track health progress in ways that waist circumference cannot, being vetted for conditions not so associated with central adiposity such as apnea and osteoarthritis. These conditions not specific for non-obese BMI groups? That's fine, but sometimes they are, and you make that determination after you screen.
Anyway, sorry for cluttering up the thread again with a thesis statement, but I believe I'm doing good here. If I pass judgment on people through advocating BMI, then it is in spite of my every effort to distance myself from the social stigma it carries; please believe me when I say I buy none of that and stay away from that when I can. But if I can help even by a little clear up the cobwebs separating medical science and popular fitness, or at least show that I'm trying my very best, I'll be happy. Thank you for engaging with me, correcting me, and helping more clearly define this central issue.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
bmi is used to measure large swaths out people where a couple statistical deviations are not really impactful. using it as a personal measurement isn't going to work well
anyway, I found a solution to breaking my jump ropes and it was so simple: put tape on the cord
and while were on the subject of vegetables I hate most vegetables so I put them in soups that mask the taste of them. it helps that I like really spicy food
bmi is used to measure large swaths out people where a couple statistical deviations are not really impactful. using it as a personal measurement isn't going to work well
Imperfect, easy to perform tests often have double duty as screening tools and as criteria for large volume studies because in each situation grabbing large swathes is key and the statistical deviations can be worked out in post-processing.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Please don't be coy about it, say that I'm not being useful and I'll be gone. I don't want to continue to mess up this thread without purpose or effect.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Thanks. Usagi, I am sorry if I inferred any legitimacy in claims or evidence that you are not healthy. It's multifactorial, after all, and you are leagues and leagues ahead of where I am in physical and mental health. I am the student, not the teacher. I hope to continue to learn from all of you.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
If you say sorry, but I think I'm right, you aren't actually sorry.
I took a miserable fucking grad class on exercise prescription and a lot of it focused on adherence to health & wellness programs
Here's a tip: he's not wrong, and it's really fucking difficult to talk about shit without offending people concerning health and body image, even if categorically they fall in areas that using BMI is a predictor would put them at risk, same as waist circumference or hip-to-waist ratio or whatever
No easy way to talk about it and the tools used are imperfect but it's what we have and in a clinical and sterile setting far away from angry internet, he's right.
That said, everybody is better off eating healthier food choices, participating in moderate to vigorous activity and exercise, and making a commitment to these lifestyle changes that last longer than a goal weight or a clothing size *which is difficult and hard to do*
If y'all take umbrage with what I've said, too fucking bad. I'm not gonna post in this thread until this discussion has died off
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
Also you don't necessarily need to bail on a thread just because you made a mistake!
You're right, I'm not a child, I'm a grown man! I can deal. I can also do wind sprints for 20 minutes tono i can't im a slug
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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I don't think many of us are talking about your body, since you didn't solicit the health goals we're talking about and they may not apply to what you care about at all. However, it's interesting to know where preventive health science is at; I just want to make sure people have their numbers correct when making assertions.
As a side note, waist circumference - height ratio may completely replace weight as the health measure, so look for that in the future.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
What I'm saying. Generally speaking us black folks especially women have bigger thighs/butts in relation to our waists. So us weighing a bit more with the same waist size isn't abnormal.
So making a blanket statement about general weight is a bit short-sighted imo.
That's all preventive screening really is, a blanket statement that hopefully catches all at risk but is not necessarily the end all / be all. However, at certain really high BMIs, it actually does get pretty specific; I'd put good money on anyone over 35 as being in their appropriate risk category.
Like I said though, it's improving all the time, and we're starting to take into consideration your particular issue. That doesn't mean it'll be best to wait until the test is absolutely perfect. You know, work with what you've got.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Putting on jeans than I had shoved to the back of the closet and them fitting again is amazing feeling.
However, will I actually be able to? Or will I pass out?
I'm wondering if I should put off clothes shopping until I drop a couple of waist sizes.
My old clothes are starting to look baggy but I don't want the same to happen with any new clothes I buy.
They do a finger prick test to determine if you're too anemic or whatever before they actually set you up for reals.
Recovery after donating blood is different for everybody, though. They'll have food and drink available after donating, so my advice would be to sit down for more time than you'd think you need, and drink lots of fluids, sugary drinks are actually better than water in this case, and snacks. Some places will even give their donors a full meal, which I would take advantage of if possible. If you can, arrange a ride to/from, or make sure you're very close to home since you definitely don't want to be driving, and you'll want to take it relatively easy for even several hours afterwards, so walking long distances isn't advised.
Thanks Javen, I've never done it before so good to know what I should take and how it works!
Yeah that's been one of my big motivations as I'm currently a 46.
Sodium intake is something too but I can barely manage 2500mg let alone the recommended 2000mg black people have.
That's not something I can gauge over the Internet. With that variation, one of those doctors is mistaken. Your recommendations will vary widely depending on several non-weight factors. It really depends more on what your goals and capabilities are, and if they don't take that into consideration, they'll never get anywhere. It's hard advising weight maintenance.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Good on you for planning to donate! I will say that at first glance they can seem very...choosy in regards to who they accept for donations. Anemia and iron deficiency are sine of the most common reasons, and it actually doesn't have a whole lot to do with pure bodyweight, so don't feel bad if they decide you aren't a good fit. It may be something completely out of your control.
I didn't know that, so thats a good heads up in case they do turn me down.
I can't help him choose between the two weight recommendations provided by his physicians, but I can give context on the basis on which these recommendations are made. Unless people are obese, I have no absolute rules to offer. In my posts above, I have always included the caveat that the numbers serve as a guideline to take a second, more in-depth look and not as the final measure. I offer no direct medical advice to anyone in particular.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I have no idea how in one page we went from "hey help me eat veggies" to "knowing absolutely nothing about a woman but her weight, I'm judging her diet unsuccessful and her weight to be unhealthy"
If you believe that I was pointing these numbers at anybody in particular, then I apologize for not making it crystal clear that I was making general statements and my second person pronouns were rhetorical.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It doesn't work that way.
Zucchini Parmesan Crisps
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ellie-krieger/zucchini-parmesan-crisps-recipe.html
Roasted Brussels Sprouts
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/67952/roasted-brussels-sprouts/
A general guide on roasting vegetables
http://www.bhg.com/recipes/how-to/cooking-basics/how-to-roast-vegetables/
My favourite roasted red pepper and tomato soup recipe
http://allrecipes.com/recipe/13004/roasted-red-pepper-and-tomato-soup/
(I'd recommend skipping the sour cream, or reducing it to a dollop, and making your own stock instead of canned/cartoned broth, which can have really high sodium) -- this involves bits of roasted pepper in the soup, but if you're still getting used to the idea of eating peppers, by all means blend it all up into a pulp
Cauliflower and Campbell's cream of mushroom soup
http://www.campbellskitchen.com/recipes/easy-cauliflower-gratin-50466
This last one isn't the most healthful, but it's certainly a great way to get used to cauliflower. My mom made it a lot growing up, though she skipped the cheese and bacon (so.. cook the cauliflower and then dredge it in a can of Campbell's :P )
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I understand it's a sensitive issue, but trust me when I say I will be the last person to judge others by their character, appearance, and how they are perceived. My thesis was that BMI is not a useless tool; it's not perfect, but it's sufficiently grounded in biometric science to be worth knowing, and worth knowing correctly. I saw that we were throwing down some general numbers, and I made them accurate.
I apologize for the dramatic spiel, but I respect your concerns too much to give a blithe answer, and I want to make sure my intentions are fully understood, regardless of the success of their delivery.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
You're not correct, though. It's not particularly useful on a per-person basis, and weight/health correlates are not the direct causal link you seem to think. There are some negative health metrics that often (NOT ALWAYS) increase with greater weight, and those may have a correlate with increased morbidity. The weight itself is not necessarily an issue, especially when we're talking about not-very-very-obese people*. Additionally, carrying some extra weight has been shown to help your long term chances at fighting off cancer, for example.
*fatty tissue around the heart, for example, is probably a concern, but not everyone who is fat has that problem. Joint injury can be a problem for the very large, but not all. A lot of the forumers that you are talking (yes you are talking about people who are here and reading this) about are fit and healthy and just not within the bullshit BMI metrics, which btw are not set in stone and used to be different anyway. Science updates itself, medicine more often than most.
And you are judging. You are judging people's health, based on one metric which isn't even a particularly good overall tool. You cannot tell precisely how healthy someone is by just knowing their weight and BMI, and you can't even make a particularly good stab in the dark unless they've very very large. And for a lot of people, the minuscule statistical heath gains made by dropping that last 20-30 pounds definitely do not outweigh the stress and mental energy expenditure required to keep that weight off.
And this is why I stay the fuck out of this thread when it turns too heavily to dieting, because a lot of people start telling others they're doing their body wrong without even meeting them.
...Anyway, today I went for a 5k at 10:00 a.m. and it sucked all of the asses. Full-on allergy-related tightness of breath, the holes in my feet were killing me, and I wore shorts inappropriate for the humidity so the hem of the left leg chaffed my right inner thigh all to fuck.
THIS DIDN'T USED TO HAPPEN, hhargghhhh. I'm trying really hard to use a calendar to track my exercise and get back into a regular pattern. Baby steps, baby steps...
"Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
Yes, finally. Indeed, weight is a distanced issue from actual health risk, but given that we don't have an affordable, practical method to keep track of fat accumulation and distribution, it is currently the best we've got. A lot of our clinical measures are secondary effects of true disease process. I'm as anxious to get past it as you are, but it is emblematic of the assumptions we make when we say, "based on this data, people your age have a X% increased risk in Y% condition." And not enough people take that with the grain of salt it needs.
And I believe it is a good tool. For screening. It doesn't have to be a specific tool for screening, which is I think where the misunderstanding is coming from. When a doctor tells you that "your BMI classifies you as overweight," that doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the doctor, regardless of the vernacular connotations, because that's only the start of what it means for you. It could mean nothing - you're bulked up, you have no cardiovascular or metabolic risk factors, there are as yet undetermined genetic and lifestyle factors that make a weight outside the statistical confines of NEJM literature okay and even optimum for you. Yet it is used widely because it is effective for the majority of people and has no significant harms.
But it does have significant harms, demonstrated here, in our culture and our language. "Underweight," "overweight," "obese," "morbidly obese" have vernacular consequences as labels even though they absolutely shouldn't. Like you said, the numbers are always changing, and a person that was overweight then isn't overweight now, and vice versa. The stigma is real and it is preposterous, and that is why I believe it's important to get educated about the standards of this tool, its uses, and most importantly its limits.
I have taken every opportunity to label it as a screening tool and make a disclaimer that where you fall on it merits consideration and not final judgment. This is important and I'll repeat it as many times as necessary, because the lack of awareness of the basic medical concepts of sensitivity and specificity is where all the unnecessary harm comes from. The initial test a doctor does has an increased risk of wrongly labeling you as sick because they use it to catch all the people who are sick, including several who are healthy. This is because later, they can do a more accurate test, probably more invasive, on this reduced population to pick out the ones that actually are sick and release the healthy ones back into the wild. That's because tests are usually either "sensitive" (makes sure it scoops up every abnormal result) or "specific" (makes sure it DOESN'T scoop up every normal result) and we pair them like so to reduce the harm from flat out wrong results, though they do happen.
And you're right about BMI, it is BS. There are plenty of promising biometic tests down the pipeline that are just waiting to supplant it in practice guidelines after they get enough multicenter trials. Waist circumference is already one and is used as a metric in diagnosing metabolic syndrome, while BMI gets left in the dust. There's even promising work on using height/waist ratios and forgoing weight entirely; if that works, it'll be great. But BMI is not BS enough that it's useless, even when faced with these new measures. Misunderstood, definitely. But even for people who are not very very obese, it still has its uses as an inexpensive quantitative measure to screen and track health progress in ways that waist circumference cannot, being vetted for conditions not so associated with central adiposity such as apnea and osteoarthritis. These conditions not specific for non-obese BMI groups? That's fine, but sometimes they are, and you make that determination after you screen.
Anyway, sorry for cluttering up the thread again with a thesis statement, but I believe I'm doing good here. If I pass judgment on people through advocating BMI, then it is in spite of my every effort to distance myself from the social stigma it carries; please believe me when I say I buy none of that and stay away from that when I can. But if I can help even by a little clear up the cobwebs separating medical science and popular fitness, or at least show that I'm trying my very best, I'll be happy. Thank you for engaging with me, correcting me, and helping more clearly define this central issue.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Well...
anyway, I found a solution to breaking my jump ropes and it was so simple: put tape on the cord
Imperfect, easy to perform tests often have double duty as screening tools and as criteria for large volume studies because in each situation grabbing large swathes is key and the statistical deviations can be worked out in post-processing.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Please don't be coy about it, say that I'm not being useful and I'll be gone. I don't want to continue to mess up this thread without purpose or effect.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
If you say sorry, but I think I'm right, you aren't actually sorry.
Satans..... hints.....
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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I took a miserable fucking grad class on exercise prescription and a lot of it focused on adherence to health & wellness programs
Here's a tip: he's not wrong, and it's really fucking difficult to talk about shit without offending people concerning health and body image, even if categorically they fall in areas that using BMI is a predictor would put them at risk, same as waist circumference or hip-to-waist ratio or whatever
No easy way to talk about it and the tools used are imperfect but it's what we have and in a clinical and sterile setting far away from angry internet, he's right.
That said, everybody is better off eating healthier food choices, participating in moderate to vigorous activity and exercise, and making a commitment to these lifestyle changes that last longer than a goal weight or a clothing size *which is difficult and hard to do*
If y'all take umbrage with what I've said, too fucking bad. I'm not gonna post in this thread until this discussion has died off
You're right, I'm not a child, I'm a grown man! I can deal. I can also do wind sprints for 20 minutes tono i can't im a slug
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.