Mei's voice actress, Zhang Yu (Elize Zhang, I think?) also posted a very celebratory Twiter post on the 70th Anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China a few weeks earlier and expressed a patriotic love for country and excitement to see the ceremonies. So, not everything is really humming to the same tune.
Mei's voice actress, Zhang Yu (Elize Zhang, I think?) also posted a very celebratory Twiter post on the 70th Anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China a few weeks earlier and expressed a patriotic love for country and excitement to see the ceremonies. So, not everything is really humming to the same tune.
I don't think it's the internet's place to judge an actual resident of China for feeling general patriotism towards their own country.
Mei's voice actress, Zhang Yu (Elize Zhang, I think?) also posted a very celebratory Twiter post on the 70th Anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China a few weeks earlier and expressed a patriotic love for country and excitement to see the ceremonies. So, not everything is really humming to the same tune.
I don't think it's the internet's place to judge an actual resident of China for feeling general patriotism towards their own country.
People on Twitter disagree, apparently. But this being Twitter, it mostly amounts to them changing their Hong Kong Masked Mei avatars to something else.
Also, as pointed out on here (I think in another thread, can't remember who it was), she's a public figure and has family in mainland China. Even if she felt differently, what's she gonna do? The best she could probably do is say nothing, which the internet would take to be just as damning.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited November 2019
If I have a choice between my family going to torture camp or saying ’fuck yeah,America! in front of some cameras. That’s an easy choice to make
Was probably the most interesting thing about this remaster.
I'm happy to hear that, I love the WC3 story and that was the one of the main things I was concerned about.
Vis a vis the cinematics I wonder if they're going to make an actual cinematic for that final fight in TFT they didn't have time/budget to do when they made it, or if they'll keep it as a sort of high quality in-game cutscene like it is in the original.
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I’m glad they are not changing or re-writing aspects of the story, but I still hope some of their level upgrades make it in.
Like they said they were going to remake the purging of Stratholm mission so that the game map more closely resembles Stratholm in WoW. I was fully on board with that, and I hope that makes it in.
If I have a choice between my family going to torture camp or saying ’fuck yeah,America! in front of some cameras. That’s an easy choice to make
It definitely is. It's not remotely what Zhang herself (or for that matter, literally thousands of other Chinese-language actors in China who didn't bother posting about it on Twitter) faced, but yes, it is an easy choice to make. "Failure to promote a national holiday," isn't actually something the Chinese government gets really angry about as far as I know, otherwise the million or so Taiwanese living China, including a disproportionate number of actors and public personalities, would be very guilty of that. Zhang hasn't spent years meeting with antigovernment populists or democratic activists, to start.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
It's useless to downplay the effects of the MOBA genre--itself a little diminished just by normal trends and competition--on real-time strategy as a whole, I don't think RTS is actually "dead."
PC Flight simulation was dead--or closer to dead--and imploded a lot faster. RTS is not as bad off, due to an almost fanatical (and I say that in a complimentary way) multiplayer following, and some very limited public (even outside of gaming) visibility on the competitive side. New entries struggle, so they have to carve out a niche (Halo Wars 2 was a modest success by basically being a fan-wanted sequel and pretty much the only modern game of its kind on console, for example). Substantially shrunken--and the non-Blizzard RTS scene hasn't been big for a very, very long time--but not dead. I think there's a strong argument that RTS, even today, is still a lot more successful and visible than 4X (which is basically "Civilization and some other games clinging to life") by comparison. The suitability for online multiplayer is a big part of that.
It's useless to downplay the effects of the MOBA genre--itself a little diminished just by normal trends and competition--on real-time strategy as a whole, I don't think RTS is actually "dead."
PC Flight simulation was dead--or closer to dead--and imploded a lot faster. RTS is not as bad off, due to an almost fanatical (and I say that in a complimentary way) multiplayer following, and some very limited public (even outside of gaming) visibility on the competitive side. New entries struggle, so they have to carve out a niche (Halo Wars 2 was a modest success by basically being a fan-wanted sequel and pretty much the only modern game of its kind on console, for example). Substantially shrunken--and the non-Blizzard RTS scene hasn't been big for a very, very long time--but not dead. I think there's a strong argument that RTS, even today, is still a lot more successful and visible than 4X (which is basically "Civilization and some other games clinging to life") by comparison. The suitability for online multiplayer is a big part of that.
I don't think I'd call the RTS genre dead, but instead of dead I'd say it's pretty much only Starcraft II at the moment. Blizzard is the only big player that's "alive" on the grand scale, with Starcraft esports resurgent in recent years. Old mainstays like CnC and Total Annihilation/SupCom have been dead for years. Relic was absolutely humbled with the DoW3 release, if they screw up AOE IV they're done.
Halo Wars 2, Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak, Grey Goo, Ashes of the Singularity, Planetary Annihilation are all recent solid releases in the last 5 years, but they haven't really managed to break into the zeitgeist even temporarily to a fraction of where Starcraft 2 is, and while some have solid support(some flagging, some none) there doesn't appear to be another challenger in the RTS genre at a "Dota 2" level to Starcraft II's "League of Legends". Looking at the horizon there's 2 remasters(CnC TibDawn, WC3), an AOE Sequel potentially 15 years out from the last, and a crowdfunded HW3. I don't see any of those going beyond releasing to some high viewership on twitch for a few days before they get relegated to their respective niches.
Honestly, something I wonder if a RTS-lite like a new Myth game could do real well to fill the void right now. Get rid of all the crazy base-building micro and focus on list building and actual controlling your units in shorter 5-10 minute battles.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
It's useless to downplay the effects of the MOBA genre--itself a little diminished just by normal trends and competition--on real-time strategy as a whole, I don't think RTS is actually "dead."
PC Flight simulation was dead--or closer to dead--and imploded a lot faster. RTS is not as bad off, due to an almost fanatical (and I say that in a complimentary way) multiplayer following, and some very limited public (even outside of gaming) visibility on the competitive side. New entries struggle, so they have to carve out a niche (Halo Wars 2 was a modest success by basically being a fan-wanted sequel and pretty much the only modern game of its kind on console, for example). Substantially shrunken--and the non-Blizzard RTS scene hasn't been big for a very, very long time--but not dead. I think there's a strong argument that RTS, even today, is still a lot more successful and visible than 4X (which is basically "Civilization and some other games clinging to life") by comparison. The suitability for online multiplayer is a big part of that.
I don't think I'd call the RTS genre dead, but instead of dead I'd say it's pretty much only Starcraft II at the moment. Blizzard is the only big player that's "alive" on the grand scale, with Starcraft esports resurgent in recent years. Old mainstays like CnC and Total Annihilation/SupCom have been dead for years. Relic was absolutely humbled with the DoW3 release, if they screw up AOE IV they're done.
Halo Wars 2, Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak, Grey Goo, Ashes of the Singularity, Planetary Annihilation are all recent solid releases in the last 5 years, but they haven't really managed to break into the zeitgeist even temporarily to a fraction of where Starcraft 2 is, and while some have solid support(some flagging, some none) there doesn't appear to be another challenger in the RTS genre at a "Dota 2" level to Starcraft II's "League of Legends". Looking at the horizon there's 2 remasters(CnC TibDawn, WC3), an AOE Sequel potentially 15 years out from the last, and a crowdfunded HW3. I don't see any of those going beyond releasing to some high viewership on twitch for a few days before they get relegated to their respective niches.
You know, maybe it's me but it feels like more and more there is this greater emphasis on console gaming over PC. I think that might have a lot to do with it, RTS being one of those genres that really doesn't work at all on consoles. Even Blizzard is porting most of their ongoing stuff to consoles, sans WoW (which I have a feeling is a whole can of worms in terms of server licensing and what have you...)
I honestly don't even think we'd necessarily have SC2 still going strong if it weren't for Blizzard basically having to split the three campaigns up into three separate games and the fact they couldn't just abandon that half-finished. (I mean, is it me or did Legacy of the Void *kinda* release to muted fanfare?)
I want an RTS that leans into turtling. It's my favourite part of RTS which is pretty much counter-intuitive in every RTS game.
I think just AoE with the Egyptians with their super walls kinda leaned into it. I've played a couple matches now of War3RF beta and I just get destroyed each time. I'm starting to think I'm not the target audience lol.
I figure once it comes out, I'll just be playing a ton of custom games as usual. War3 is still installed on my work comp and i play it on work trips a fair amount.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I want an RTS that leans into turtling. It's my favourite part of RTS which is pretty much counter-intuitive in every RTS game.
I think just AoE with the Egyptians with their super walls kinda leaned into it. I've played a couple matches now of War3RF beta and I just get destroyed each time. I'm starting to think I'm not the target audience lol.
I figure once it comes out, I'll just be playing a ton of custom games as usual. War3 is still installed on my work comp and i play it on work trips a fair amount.
This is increasingly off-topic, but you might want to check out They Are Billions. It's a single player RTS that feels a lot like if someone rebuilt AoE2 to be just about turtling.
Yeah I played quite a bit of They Are Billions when it first released to early access. I do need to go back and play it though, it def was one of the closest things to scratch that itch in a while.
Tower Defense's kinda scratch it as well but not as great.
I know I will be in the minority on this but I dont think its a bad look to jump to the opening ceremony on the vod labeled as opening ceremony. The stream vod is uncut. They just simply chopped the vod to the countdown on the site.
Honestly, something I wonder if a RTS-lite like a new Myth game could do real well to fill the void right now. Get rid of all the crazy base-building micro and focus on list building and actual controlling your units in shorter 5-10 minute battles.
The video game industry seems very cyclical in genre popularity. Right now RTS is in a fairly dormant state, but all it takes is one game to kick it back to life.
FPS even went through a rough patch in the early-mid 2000s. There was a period of time when every FPS campaign sucked and the only games even worth buying were the annual releases of Call of Duty and/or Battlefield.
But thanks to games like Overwatch, Doom 2016, and the Battle Royale genre as a whole, FPS is alive and kickin' again.
I don't think RTS will stay dormant forever, but it just takes the right game to bring it back to life. If Blizzard makes Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4, that has a good chance of doing so. Or it might be an indie. The indies are really driving the gaming hobby right now. And the big AAA studios are doing their best to play catch-up and cash in on the new trends that the indies are creating.
Bloody Sloth just suggested They Are Billions. That game is brilliant. And it has already spawned at least one AAA copy-cat. The Conan Unconquered RTS is literally just TAB, but with barbarians. I don't think TAB is big enough to rejuvenate the genre, but I will not be surprised if it isn't an indie that does it.
The video game industry seems very cyclical in genre popularity. Right now RTS is in a fairly dormant state, but all it takes is one game to kick it back to life.
FPS even went through a rough patch in the early-mid 2000s. There was a period of time when every FPS campaign sucked and the only games even worth buying were the annual releases of Call of Duty and/or Battlefield.
But thanks to games like Overwatch, Doom 2016, and the Battle Royale genre as a whole, FPS is alive and kickin' again.
I don't think RTS will stay dormant forever, but it just takes the right game to bring it back to life. If Blizzard makes Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4, that has a good chance of doing so. Or it might be an indie. The indies are really driving the gaming hobby right now. And the big AAA studios are doing their best to play catch-up and cash in on the new trends that the indies are creating.
Bloody Sloth just suggested They Are Billions. That game is brilliant. And it has already spawned at least one AAA copy-cat. The Conan Unconquered RTS is literally just TAB, but with barbarians. I don't think TAB is big enough to rejuvenate the genre, but I will not be surprised if it isn't an indie that does it.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people really struggle with APM and rts games are generally won off matchup knowledge and APM. Dota was a mod that gave you one unit to control which drastically lowers the needed apm to be competitive. Which basically made it more accessible to people. The only way RTS will come back into the spotlight is if warcraft 4 is released to critical acclaim or someone figures out how to solve the accessibility problem. I personally think company of heroes did a wonderful job of that, but it still wasnt very popular. So there would probably also need to be a compelling story attached to a new rts. Which basically means nothing based on real life history, mythology, or common tropes is really going to work. Rts also falls into the same competitive problem fighting games do. You generally play 1v1 so you dont have teammates to blame when you suck.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
rts in its traditional form will never be mainstream, at least as a competitive multiplayer exercise - the game literally works by saying "how hard can u stress ur attention and multitasking while somebody tries to fuck with ur shit"
not an experience most enjoy or can play for long periods
In the era of Command and Conquer and Warcraft II and Starcraft, RTS was as mainstreaming as PC video gaming was, if it was at all. But those games all had embryonic multiplayer communities (with Starcraft being the one with staying power after the expansion).
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
only like 5% of sc1 players ever played online iirc - figure i imagine even lower for cnc
Those games were popular because there were not many games to play.
What is this I don't even.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
only like 5% of sc1 players ever played online iirc - figure i imagine even lower for cnc
I mean, played online or played the game online competitively?
Cause myself and plenty others never played a single SC1 ladder game but played the shit out of Evolution and DBZ RPG custom maps online.
Also SC1 was back in the age of dialup, when the internet was not completely ubiquitous. Not really comparable to modern.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yeah it reflects the lack of internet penetration as much as anything else, but it does mean that when people look at sc1 sales and popularity it is not a reflection of lots of people logging on to 1v1 people
Man we used to have some pretty epic floor battles and lan parties with early RTS games before battle.net 1.0 got decent.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited November 2019
Back in the 90s single player RTS's were all the rage.
EDIT: Shit they made a starcraft port for the N64
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Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Warcraft II and C&C were even more embryonic--even with both of them getting re-releases for more modern internet multiplayer capabilities as I recall. Remember those re-releases were still before Steam's introduction in 2003, much less the few years it took for people to not near-universally hate it. Starcraft--including off-line--was as mainstream as anything on PC that was actually a game, and it happened to keep being played after other games of its day gradually declined in popularity.
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Mei's voice actress, Zhang Yu (Elize Zhang, I think?) also posted a very celebratory Twiter post on the 70th Anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China a few weeks earlier and expressed a patriotic love for country and excitement to see the ceremonies. So, not everything is really humming to the same tune.
I don't think it's the internet's place to judge an actual resident of China for feeling general patriotism towards their own country.
People on Twitter disagree, apparently. But this being Twitter, it mostly amounts to them changing their Hong Kong Masked Mei avatars to something else.
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Was probably the most interesting thing about this remaster.
?
Because they had announced that they were redesigning parts of the game and story to better fit with how things are in WoW.
Arthas is my favorite.
The cinematic stuff, or the cutscenes that are just done in-engine?
Cinematics.
I'm happy to hear that, I love the WC3 story and that was the one of the main things I was concerned about.
Vis a vis the cinematics I wonder if they're going to make an actual cinematic for that final fight in TFT they didn't have time/budget to do when they made it, or if they'll keep it as a sort of high quality in-game cutscene like it is in the original.
Like they said they were going to remake the purging of Stratholm mission so that the game map more closely resembles Stratholm in WoW. I was fully on board with that, and I hope that makes it in.
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CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
It definitely is. It's not remotely what Zhang herself (or for that matter, literally thousands of other Chinese-language actors in China who didn't bother posting about it on Twitter) faced, but yes, it is an easy choice to make. "Failure to promote a national holiday," isn't actually something the Chinese government gets really angry about as far as I know, otherwise the million or so Taiwanese living China, including a disproportionate number of actors and public personalities, would be very guilty of that. Zhang hasn't spent years meeting with antigovernment populists or democratic activists, to start.
I would guess not great outside of a small, dedicated group online. RTS as a genre is basically dead right now.
PC Flight simulation was dead--or closer to dead--and imploded a lot faster. RTS is not as bad off, due to an almost fanatical (and I say that in a complimentary way) multiplayer following, and some very limited public (even outside of gaming) visibility on the competitive side. New entries struggle, so they have to carve out a niche (Halo Wars 2 was a modest success by basically being a fan-wanted sequel and pretty much the only modern game of its kind on console, for example). Substantially shrunken--and the non-Blizzard RTS scene hasn't been big for a very, very long time--but not dead. I think there's a strong argument that RTS, even today, is still a lot more successful and visible than 4X (which is basically "Civilization and some other games clinging to life") by comparison. The suitability for online multiplayer is a big part of that.
I don't think I'd call the RTS genre dead, but instead of dead I'd say it's pretty much only Starcraft II at the moment. Blizzard is the only big player that's "alive" on the grand scale, with Starcraft esports resurgent in recent years. Old mainstays like CnC and Total Annihilation/SupCom have been dead for years. Relic was absolutely humbled with the DoW3 release, if they screw up AOE IV they're done.
Halo Wars 2, Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak, Grey Goo, Ashes of the Singularity, Planetary Annihilation are all recent solid releases in the last 5 years, but they haven't really managed to break into the zeitgeist even temporarily to a fraction of where Starcraft 2 is, and while some have solid support(some flagging, some none) there doesn't appear to be another challenger in the RTS genre at a "Dota 2" level to Starcraft II's "League of Legends". Looking at the horizon there's 2 remasters(CnC TibDawn, WC3), an AOE Sequel potentially 15 years out from the last, and a crowdfunded HW3. I don't see any of those going beyond releasing to some high viewership on twitch for a few days before they get relegated to their respective niches.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
You know, maybe it's me but it feels like more and more there is this greater emphasis on console gaming over PC. I think that might have a lot to do with it, RTS being one of those genres that really doesn't work at all on consoles. Even Blizzard is porting most of their ongoing stuff to consoles, sans WoW (which I have a feeling is a whole can of worms in terms of server licensing and what have you...)
I honestly don't even think we'd necessarily have SC2 still going strong if it weren't for Blizzard basically having to split the three campaigns up into three separate games and the fact they couldn't just abandon that half-finished. (I mean, is it me or did Legacy of the Void *kinda* release to muted fanfare?)
I think just AoE with the Egyptians with their super walls kinda leaned into it. I've played a couple matches now of War3RF beta and I just get destroyed each time. I'm starting to think I'm not the target audience lol.
I figure once it comes out, I'll just be playing a ton of custom games as usual. War3 is still installed on my work comp and i play it on work trips a fair amount.
This is increasingly off-topic, but you might want to check out They Are Billions. It's a single player RTS that feels a lot like if someone rebuilt AoE2 to be just about turtling.
Tower Defense's kinda scratch it as well but not as great.
I know I will be in the minority on this but I dont think its a bad look to jump to the opening ceremony on the vod labeled as opening ceremony. The stream vod is uncut. They just simply chopped the vod to the countdown on the site.
Total War?
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Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
FPS even went through a rough patch in the early-mid 2000s. There was a period of time when every FPS campaign sucked and the only games even worth buying were the annual releases of Call of Duty and/or Battlefield.
But thanks to games like Overwatch, Doom 2016, and the Battle Royale genre as a whole, FPS is alive and kickin' again.
I don't think RTS will stay dormant forever, but it just takes the right game to bring it back to life. If Blizzard makes Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4, that has a good chance of doing so. Or it might be an indie. The indies are really driving the gaming hobby right now. And the big AAA studios are doing their best to play catch-up and cash in on the new trends that the indies are creating.
Bloody Sloth just suggested They Are Billions. That game is brilliant. And it has already spawned at least one AAA copy-cat. The Conan Unconquered RTS is literally just TAB, but with barbarians. I don't think TAB is big enough to rejuvenate the genre, but I will not be surprised if it isn't an indie that does it.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people really struggle with APM and rts games are generally won off matchup knowledge and APM. Dota was a mod that gave you one unit to control which drastically lowers the needed apm to be competitive. Which basically made it more accessible to people. The only way RTS will come back into the spotlight is if warcraft 4 is released to critical acclaim or someone figures out how to solve the accessibility problem. I personally think company of heroes did a wonderful job of that, but it still wasnt very popular. So there would probably also need to be a compelling story attached to a new rts. Which basically means nothing based on real life history, mythology, or common tropes is really going to work. Rts also falls into the same competitive problem fighting games do. You generally play 1v1 so you dont have teammates to blame when you suck.
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not an experience most enjoy or can play for long periods
lots of room for rts-like gams tho
I mean, played online or played the game online competitively?
Cause myself and plenty others never played a single SC1 ladder game but played the shit out of Evolution and DBZ RPG custom maps online.
Also SC1 was back in the age of dialup, when the internet was not completely ubiquitous. Not really comparable to modern.
EDIT: Shit they made a starcraft port for the N64