Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Warcraft 2 was one of the first games with true multiplayer capabilites via LAN and there were ways to jerry-rig it up through an online connection.
The WC2 competitive scene is where we get the term 'smurfing' from even.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i remember trying to play udp games of red alert on school lan
Warcraft 2 was one of the first games with true multiplayer capabilites via LAN and there were ways to jerry-rig it up through an online connection.
The WC2 competitive scene is where we get the term 'smurfing' from even.
Coined by a man named "Shlonglor"
Who later went to work at Blizzard.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
i remember trying to play udp games of red alert on school lan
I had to go to my grandparents house to play online red alert, because for whatever reason they had dsl instead of dial up and not my house until way later.
i remember trying to play udp games of red alert on school lan
I had to go to my grandparents house to play online red alert, because for whatever reason they had dsl instead of dial up and not my house until way later.
I remember a PC Gamer (or maybe CGW) article titled "Hey, go get cable internet (but don't tell your neighbors)".
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I want an RTS that leans into turtling. It's my favourite part of RTS which is pretty much counter-intuitive in every RTS game.
I think just AoE with the Egyptians with their super walls kinda leaned into it. I've played a couple matches now of War3RF beta and I just get destroyed each time. I'm starting to think I'm not the target audience lol.
I figure once it comes out, I'll just be playing a ton of custom games as usual. War3 is still installed on my work comp and i play it on work trips a fair amount.
the thing about turtling is that in pretty much any RTS game ever made, at some point a given location runs out of resources and you need to find new ones. in any game where that's true, turtling is never going to be a viable play because the money you spend on defenses, your opponent can spend on gobbling up the rest of the resources on the map and eventually just run you over through sheer force of numbers.
for example, to use starcraft as an example, three-photon cannons cost 450 minerals, more than a Nexus, and if your opponent never actually chooses to attack you, those photon cannons haven't given you any return on investment whatsoever, and for every set of cannons you make, your opponent can just spend their equivalent investment on an extra Nexus which will give them far more in return. And with all your money tied up in defenses, you can't do anything about it. Then they just run your defenses over with an army three times the size of yours because you let them take the entire map.
The only way to make a game where turtling works is to make a game where strength of numbers doesn't win battles in order to make sure that your economy isn't the number one thing determining success.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The video game industry seems very cyclical in genre popularity. Right now RTS is in a fairly dormant state, but all it takes is one game to kick it back to life.
FPS even went through a rough patch in the early-mid 2000s. There was a period of time when every FPS campaign sucked and the only games even worth buying were the annual releases of Call of Duty and/or Battlefield.
But thanks to games like Overwatch, Doom 2016, and the Battle Royale genre as a whole, FPS is alive and kickin' again.
I don't think RTS will stay dormant forever, but it just takes the right game to bring it back to life.
For example, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is almost single handedly reviving the cRPG genre that died after Neverwinter Nights.
The video game industry seems very cyclical in genre popularity. Right now RTS is in a fairly dormant state, but all it takes is one game to kick it back to life.
FPS even went through a rough patch in the early-mid 2000s. There was a period of time when every FPS campaign sucked and the only games even worth buying were the annual releases of Call of Duty and/or Battlefield.
But thanks to games like Overwatch, Doom 2016, and the Battle Royale genre as a whole, FPS is alive and kickin' again.
I don't think RTS will stay dormant forever, but it just takes the right game to bring it back to life.
For example, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is almost single handedly reviving the cRPG genre that died after Neverwinter Nights.
Ert never heard of Pillars of Eternity?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I want an RTS that leans into turtling. It's my favourite part of RTS which is pretty much counter-intuitive in every RTS game.
I think just AoE with the Egyptians with their super walls kinda leaned into it. I've played a couple matches now of War3RF beta and I just get destroyed each time. I'm starting to think I'm not the target audience lol.
I figure once it comes out, I'll just be playing a ton of custom games as usual. War3 is still installed on my work comp and i play it on work trips a fair amount.
the thing about turtling is that in pretty much any RTS game ever made, at some point a given location runs out of resources and you need to find new ones. in any game where that's true, turtling is never going to be a viable play because the money you spend on defenses, your opponent can spend on gobbling up the rest of the resources on the map and eventually just run you over through sheer force of numbers.
for example, to use starcraft as an example, three-photon cannons cost 450 minerals, more than a Nexus, and if your opponent never actually chooses to attack you, those photon cannons haven't given you any return on investment whatsoever, and for every set of cannons you make, your opponent can just spend their equivalent investment on an extra Nexus which will give them far more in return. And with all your money tied up in defenses, you can't do anything about it. Then they just run your defenses over with an army three times the size of yours because you let them take the entire map.
The only way to make a game where turtling works is to make a game where strength of numbers doesn't win battles in order to make sure that your economy isn't the number one thing determining success.
BGH no rush five minutes
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I want an RTS that leans into turtling. It's my favourite part of RTS which is pretty much counter-intuitive in every RTS game.
I've not seen it done, but apparently pre-TFT WC3 competitive was VERY turtly, like, the most turtly competitive RTS ever made.. at least how Grubby described it. Unfortunately it seems that RoC is officially dead with reforged and won't be playable online.
It really sounds like their budget got slashed or they're overdue and, thus, cutting stuff. I dunno. Curious what the preorders for Reforged were.
They are VERY radio silent, there's just no way to know. My impression of how things have gone down was they may have decided to re-calibrate their resources away from redoing the campaign, which looked like embarrassing nonsense at blizzcon last year, and instead invest all that time and money into totally revolutionizing the custom game scene
They have redone EVERY model in the game. 2,200. They didn't have to do that. Base WC3 re-uses a crap ton of models for different units. They claim there's no re-use at all in Reforged. They didn't have to do that to make this project work but they did.
I think it's savvy, intentionally or otherwise, on their part. WC3 editor is extremely powerful, and they're giving it a big update. I think they're hoping some new scenes pop out of it.
I bought the original and pre-purchased reforged for the campaign, never cared about the multiplayer. If they only do it for the multiplayer, i want my money back.
One thing that kind of killed RTS interest for me was how games are over / "GG" before people even wreck the enemy base. It's not incorrect, it's usually because one side has reached a point where they simply cannot lose, but I want to see battles / ruin....
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I bought the original and pre-purchased reforged for the campaign, never cared about the multiplayer. If they only do it for the multiplayer, i want my money back.
i mean.... the new graphics apply to the campaign, there will be some new/updated cutscenes. some of the key campaign maps have been redesigned and the layout has changed (e.g., Dalaran looks like Dalaran from WoW now, instead of something from Sim City)
the only thing they appear to have axed is the rewrite/revoice of the major plot points, and some subset of the cutscene aesthetic work (like what they showed for Culling)
I bought the original and pre-purchased reforged for the campaign, never cared about the multiplayer. If they only do it for the multiplayer, i want my money back.
i mean.... the new graphics apply to the campaign, there will be some new/updated cutscenes. some of the key campaign maps have been redesigned and the layout has changed (e.g., Dalaran looks like Dalaran from WoW now, instead of something from Sim City)
the only thing they appear to have axed is the rewrite/revoice of the major plot points
And the remade cinematics.
@Smrtnik , I just asked Blizzard for a refund via their support site and I got it approved, so if you still want your money back you should be able to get it.
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ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
One thing that kind of killed RTS interest for me was how games are over / "GG" before people even wreck the enemy base. It's not incorrect, it's usually because one side has reached a point where they simply cannot lose, but I want to see battles / ruin....
I dunno, I had many a game of SC2 that involved premature manner GGs. Just cause they crush your main doesn't mean you're dead, especially if you have 3 more bases and a secret CattleBruiser fleet.
the GG is a little like the premature quitouts in mortal kombat....
having played some WC3 online, I think that it's called for in this genre though.... in an RTS, even when you're winning, it can feel like you're not winning, because any advantage gained must be exploited immediately and completely, or else it's lost
so in a really long game of WC3, you can be "winning" for like 10 minutes but still be playing your ass off.... and it's a very novel feeling in WC3 to have the guy quit out on you... because you're playing extremely hard to secure the win and they just suddenly release you of your burden... feels good. if you had to go through the formality of killing every farm, you wouldn't get that rush.... which is why I think laming and sending out stray peasants everywhere is taboo online
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating not GG'ng. That wasn't my point at all. It was more that as a spectator, GG lacks the "KO!" feel of watching a streetfighter, etc.
When playing, yeah, RTS requires so much focus, I can see why people have tapped out for more laid back fare.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
RTS is fundamentally a genre about snowballing. Everything you do is to secure a production advantage with which you can overwhelm your opponent later. Catch-up mechanics would undermine that, which means that pretty much every game is going to end with the losing player falling more and more hopelessly behind. Conceding the game is simply necessary for a game like that.
While it's not exclusive to RTS's, off the cuff I'd say that part of it is that the genre often lacks a substantial 'comeback mechanic'. In most fighting games your character is as dangerous at 1% health as they are at 100%. While it's not always likely or even possible between two equally skilled players, it's not impossible for that major upset turnaround juggle or whatever.
Same with most competitive FPS's I can think of, and MOBAs like DotA2 have been playing with comeback mechanics, though premature GG's are a consideration there too (I've totally had my team abruptly bail on a game that was totally winnable if they'd just stuck out one last team fight).
But having watched a lot of pro SC2 over the years, there hits a point where one player has lost enough of their army and ability to generate substantial defenses that it just saves everyone 5-10 minutes of grinding down structures to move onto the next game.
I do agree that there's something fun about being a kid again and knocking out every last single structure the enemy has, but especially for pros who might be playing multiple matches in a day consisting of a dozen+ individual games, I can understand it, and I think that filters down to the community. Sometimes in healthy ways, adopting good sportsmanship, sometimes in less constructive ways, like players shit talking and demanding a GG because they totally have this one in the bag (though it feels pretty good to blindside 'em, I'll admit).
The lengthy build up, with a game taking 10, 20, 30+ minutes at times, I can understand being able to recognize when you're beaten and it's just going to be another 5-15+ minutes of being choked out and defeated.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
When you watch pro level Brood War, that "knockout" moment is a little more punctuated, I think. Because gg occurs after a devastating psionic storm, or holy shit they lost their shuttle with two reavers on it, or wow they did amazing micro in this fight.
Basically you see a lot of posturing, and then there's a big battle, and then it's just a matter of whether or not one guy got the upper hand or not. Often it's hard to read. But then there's a big moment and it's super easy to read and holy shit that guy totally just lost.
When you watch pro level Brood War, that "knockout" moment is a little more punctuated, I think. Because gg occurs after a devastating psionic storm, or holy shit they lost their shuttle with two reavers on it, or wow they did amazing micro in this fight.
Basically you see a lot of posturing, and then there's a big battle, and then it's just a matter of whether or not one guy got the upper hand or not. Often it's hard to read. But then there's a big moment and it's super easy to read and holy shit that guy totally just lost.
Warcraft 3 is pretty good about "knockout" moments as well. The vast majority of the time a hero death is what triggers the "GG".
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I don't know how you can say that Tasteless screaming "Gee geeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" Isn't a hype knockout moment.
I'm more convinced that D4 is the D2 remaster at this point.
So I found some retroactive evidence for this. There was a reddit leak from 4 months ago that has proven like 95% accurate to the Blizzcon reveal. Here's one of the yet unproven claims:
Diablo II Remake/Remaster was planned, but they later realized that it would be much better to give the franchise a complete reset and put majority of the fans requests into 1 giant package.
The same leak also claims that the 5 class lineup includes paladin and amazon on top of the revealed barb, sorc, druid. And that they were originally thinking of necro instead of druid. So basically just copy Diablo II for release and save novel ideas for expansions. Anyway it really puts the nail in the coffin of any remaster.
That leak certainly looks real, and it makes a lot of sense that their planning on a D2 remake transformed into D4. I don't think there's going to be a remaster. Maybe the Classics team could put out another patch or two for it or something like that, but it's just as likely that they shrink that team into maintenance mode and pull them onto other projects.
They are missing a bow/crossbow user, a knight, a combo character like the monk or assassin, and a Necro type. So if they only have two slots left they could do a death knight type character and a demon Hunter type to cover all of those check boxes.
There doesn't have to be a failed D2 remaster in order for a D4 to exist. That's the silliest of conspiracies. Diablo is a tentpole franchise for Blizzard. D3 is like 7 years old now. And they have a total of like 4 franchises. It's about time for a sequel anyway.
When they come up with a SC3 some day is that going to be a conspiracy too? Or another WoW expansion?
There doesn't have to be a failed D2 remaster in order for a D4 to exist. That's the silliest of conspiracies. Diablo is a tentpole franchise for Blizzard. D3 is like 7 years old now. And they have a total of like 4 franchises. It's about time for a sequel anyway.
When they come up with a SC3 some day is that going to be a conspiracy too? Or another WoW expansion?
Blizzard has no idea what to do with the starcraft franchise at this point. They do tournaments to keep korea happy and release some half assed skins every new season. At this point if sc3 comes out before warcraft 4 i would be surprised. I also dont think sc2 did particularly well sales wise for how long they spent in development for 3 campaigns. and really the only fun one was the zerg one.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Man I don't think I ever expect to see a WC4. I think Warcraft is their MMO franchise now. With Starcraft being their RTS franchise, Overwatch their FPS and Diablo is their ARPG (naturally).
At the very least I think Starcraft has more of a, uh. . . pedigree(?) as an RTS over Warcraft nowadays. I feel like if you were to tell most people that there was a new Warcraft game coming their first thought would be the MMO.
Oh man, I just realized that if they did announce a new RTS Warcraft game I suspect a lot of people would probably be like, "WTF, Blizz made Warcraft in to an RTS now?!"
Now I'm sad.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yeah I think it's easy to forget, for us 30-somethings and above, that Warcraft 3 TFT was over 15 years ago.
There doesn't have to be a failed D2 remaster in order for a D4 to exist. That's the silliest of conspiracies. Diablo is a tentpole franchise for Blizzard. D3 is like 7 years old now. And they have a total of like 4 franchises. It's about time for a sequel anyway.
When they come up with a SC3 some day is that going to be a conspiracy too? Or another WoW expansion?
I didn't mean that the D2 remaster project alone literally turned into D4. The difference in scale and business stakes between the two are dramatically different. Rather it looks like in the process of developing D4 they ended up going so old-school as to merge any separate aspirations for a D2 remaster into it.
Man I don't think I ever expect to see a WC4. I think Warcraft is their MMO franchise now. With Starcraft being their RTS franchise, Overwatch their FPS and Diablo is their ARPG (naturally).
At the very least I think Starcraft has more of a, uh. . . pedigree(?) as an RTS over Warcraft nowadays. I feel like if you were to tell most people that there was a new Warcraft game coming their first thought would be the MMO.
Oh man, I just realized that if they did announce a new RTS Warcraft game I suspect a lot of people would probably be like, "WTF, Blizz made Warcraft in to an RTS now?!"
Now I'm sad.
I 100% agree with you about making each franchise stay on their path. But i dont think we will see another starcraft game for a VERY long time. Theyre drip feeding a new coop hero every now and then, which i could do in the editor myself for the most part, and there was nothing announced at blizzcon. Warcraft is just a more popular franchise which is why i think we would see wc4 before sc3. I still do t think we’ll see either unless wc3 reforged somehow sells extremely well and is popular.
I do wish they would swap up the franchise genres a little though. A diablo mmo or rts could be really cool. Starcraft would lend itself to a SW:galaxies or elite dangerous type game. Warcraft as an arpg or 3rd person like dynasty warriors would be incredible, or even some kind of 1st person game that plays more like elder scrolls than a traditional fps.
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The WC2 competitive scene is where we get the term 'smurfing' from even.
Coined by a man named "Shlonglor"
Who later went to work at Blizzard.
The guy named "Tigolebitties" from everquest became the lead designer of WoW and is currently the lead designer of Overwatch.
I had to re-read this a couple times before I got it.
Then I laughed, despite myself. Apparently I've the heart of adolescent boy.
You should probably give it back.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I had to go to my grandparents house to play online red alert, because for whatever reason they had dsl instead of dial up and not my house until way later.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
I remember a PC Gamer (or maybe CGW) article titled "Hey, go get cable internet (but don't tell your neighbors)".
the thing about turtling is that in pretty much any RTS game ever made, at some point a given location runs out of resources and you need to find new ones. in any game where that's true, turtling is never going to be a viable play because the money you spend on defenses, your opponent can spend on gobbling up the rest of the resources on the map and eventually just run you over through sheer force of numbers.
for example, to use starcraft as an example, three-photon cannons cost 450 minerals, more than a Nexus, and if your opponent never actually chooses to attack you, those photon cannons haven't given you any return on investment whatsoever, and for every set of cannons you make, your opponent can just spend their equivalent investment on an extra Nexus which will give them far more in return. And with all your money tied up in defenses, you can't do anything about it. Then they just run your defenses over with an army three times the size of yours because you let them take the entire map.
The only way to make a game where turtling works is to make a game where strength of numbers doesn't win battles in order to make sure that your economy isn't the number one thing determining success.
For example, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is almost single handedly reviving the cRPG genre that died after Neverwinter Nights.
Ert never heard of Pillars of Eternity?
BGH no rush five minutes
I've not seen it done, but apparently pre-TFT WC3 competitive was VERY turtly, like, the most turtly competitive RTS ever made.. at least how Grubby described it. Unfortunately it seems that RoC is officially dead with reforged and won't be playable online.
They are VERY radio silent, there's just no way to know. My impression of how things have gone down was they may have decided to re-calibrate their resources away from redoing the campaign, which looked like embarrassing nonsense at blizzcon last year, and instead invest all that time and money into totally revolutionizing the custom game scene
They have redone EVERY model in the game. 2,200. They didn't have to do that. Base WC3 re-uses a crap ton of models for different units. They claim there's no re-use at all in Reforged. They didn't have to do that to make this project work but they did.
I think it's savvy, intentionally or otherwise, on their part. WC3 editor is extremely powerful, and they're giving it a big update. I think they're hoping some new scenes pop out of it.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
i mean.... the new graphics apply to the campaign, there will be some new/updated cutscenes. some of the key campaign maps have been redesigned and the layout has changed (e.g., Dalaran looks like Dalaran from WoW now, instead of something from Sim City)
the only thing they appear to have axed is the rewrite/revoice of the major plot points, and some subset of the cutscene aesthetic work (like what they showed for Culling)
And the remade cinematics.
@Smrtnik , I just asked Blizzard for a refund via their support site and I got it approved, so if you still want your money back you should be able to get it.
I dunno, I had many a game of SC2 that involved premature manner GGs. Just cause they crush your main doesn't mean you're dead, especially if you have 3 more bases and a secret CattleBruiser fleet.
having played some WC3 online, I think that it's called for in this genre though.... in an RTS, even when you're winning, it can feel like you're not winning, because any advantage gained must be exploited immediately and completely, or else it's lost
so in a really long game of WC3, you can be "winning" for like 10 minutes but still be playing your ass off.... and it's a very novel feeling in WC3 to have the guy quit out on you... because you're playing extremely hard to secure the win and they just suddenly release you of your burden... feels good. if you had to go through the formality of killing every farm, you wouldn't get that rush.... which is why I think laming and sending out stray peasants everywhere is taboo online
When playing, yeah, RTS requires so much focus, I can see why people have tapped out for more laid back fare.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Same with most competitive FPS's I can think of, and MOBAs like DotA2 have been playing with comeback mechanics, though premature GG's are a consideration there too (I've totally had my team abruptly bail on a game that was totally winnable if they'd just stuck out one last team fight).
But having watched a lot of pro SC2 over the years, there hits a point where one player has lost enough of their army and ability to generate substantial defenses that it just saves everyone 5-10 minutes of grinding down structures to move onto the next game.
I do agree that there's something fun about being a kid again and knocking out every last single structure the enemy has, but especially for pros who might be playing multiple matches in a day consisting of a dozen+ individual games, I can understand it, and I think that filters down to the community. Sometimes in healthy ways, adopting good sportsmanship, sometimes in less constructive ways, like players shit talking and demanding a GG because they totally have this one in the bag (though it feels pretty good to blindside 'em, I'll admit).
The lengthy build up, with a game taking 10, 20, 30+ minutes at times, I can understand being able to recognize when you're beaten and it's just going to be another 5-15+ minutes of being choked out and defeated.
Basically you see a lot of posturing, and then there's a big battle, and then it's just a matter of whether or not one guy got the upper hand or not. Often it's hard to read. But then there's a big moment and it's super easy to read and holy shit that guy totally just lost.
Warcraft 3 is pretty good about "knockout" moments as well. The vast majority of the time a hero death is what triggers the "GG".
sure am glad I decided to main undead
So I found some retroactive evidence for this. There was a reddit leak from 4 months ago that has proven like 95% accurate to the Blizzcon reveal. Here's one of the yet unproven claims:
The same leak also claims that the 5 class lineup includes paladin and amazon on top of the revealed barb, sorc, druid. And that they were originally thinking of necro instead of druid. So basically just copy Diablo II for release and save novel ideas for expansions. Anyway it really puts the nail in the coffin of any remaster.
Diablo 4 is borrowing a lot from it aswell, so announcing both at the same time would be counter-productive.
When they come up with a SC3 some day is that going to be a conspiracy too? Or another WoW expansion?
Blizzard has no idea what to do with the starcraft franchise at this point. They do tournaments to keep korea happy and release some half assed skins every new season. At this point if sc3 comes out before warcraft 4 i would be surprised. I also dont think sc2 did particularly well sales wise for how long they spent in development for 3 campaigns. and really the only fun one was the zerg one.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
At the very least I think Starcraft has more of a, uh. . . pedigree(?) as an RTS over Warcraft nowadays. I feel like if you were to tell most people that there was a new Warcraft game coming their first thought would be the MMO.
Oh man, I just realized that if they did announce a new RTS Warcraft game I suspect a lot of people would probably be like, "WTF, Blizz made Warcraft in to an RTS now?!"
Now I'm sad.
It should be illegal to say shit like this.
I didn't mean that the D2 remaster project alone literally turned into D4. The difference in scale and business stakes between the two are dramatically different. Rather it looks like in the process of developing D4 they ended up going so old-school as to merge any separate aspirations for a D2 remaster into it.
EDIT: also if Starcraft was remastered while Warcraft was "reforged", what would a Diablo 2 remaster be subtitled?
I 100% agree with you about making each franchise stay on their path. But i dont think we will see another starcraft game for a VERY long time. Theyre drip feeding a new coop hero every now and then, which i could do in the editor myself for the most part, and there was nothing announced at blizzcon. Warcraft is just a more popular franchise which is why i think we would see wc4 before sc3. I still do t think we’ll see either unless wc3 reforged somehow sells extremely well and is popular.
I do wish they would swap up the franchise genres a little though. A diablo mmo or rts could be really cool. Starcraft would lend itself to a SW:galaxies or elite dangerous type game. Warcraft as an arpg or 3rd person like dynasty warriors would be incredible, or even some kind of 1st person game that plays more like elder scrolls than a traditional fps.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595