Kind of sounds like intermittent explosive disorder. You're reducing of stimuli would work if she was being treated with medication properly.
Bloody hell, reading through the wiki entry for IED is a hauntingly accurate description, though her episodes are exceedingly frequent. I wonder if the frequency is impacted by her learning difficulties?
I'm going to bring this up at Monday's meeting. She fits all the criteria and as it's a mental disorder it'll have to go through CAMHS again so having input from the police and school would be a huge help.
Let us know how it goes!
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yeah... but she is a few orders of magnitude worse than her brother was across the board, which is my only real point of reference. They say not to sweat it until they're 3 or 4, and maybe he was just awesome (fact.), just has me wary.
Yeah... but she is a few orders of magnitude worse than her brother was across the board, which is my only real point of reference. They say not to sweat it until they're 3 or 4, and maybe he was just awesome (fact.), just has me wary.
/relurk
We initially thought it was just terrible twos, until she was five, still behaving that way and showing learning delays. All I can recommend is that you be patient but, in the meantime, if you have any concerns about the potential for something like autism then you can take her along to a GP for a chat on the subject, even if only to calm your fears a little.
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Ding ding ding, we appear to have something almost at a diagnosis, and kudos to @Giggles_Funsworth for calling it out earlier in the thread.
Our therapist is leaning heavily towards Reactive Attachment Disorder, with a mind to re-refer to CAMHS for further support and cognitive therapy. I've been reading into it, and the paragraph that initially stood out the most was thus:
Attachment therapists... ...would add the following symptoms: lack of cause and effect thinking; lack of empathy; poor social cueing; lack of remorse; pre-occupation with blood and gore; fascination with knives; ‘primary process lying’ (lying about something that the other has witnessed); gaze aversion; tactile defensiveness; controlling behaviors; cruelty; explosive rages; impulsivity; instrumental relationships; insensitivity to pain; and co-morbidity with speech pathology, learning disability and Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity (ADHD).
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Ding ding ding, we appear to have something almost at a diagnosis, and kudos to @Giggles_Funsworth for calling it out earlier in the thread.
Our therapist is leaning heavily towards Reactive Attachment Disorder, with a mind to re-refer to CAMHS for further support and cognitive therapy. I've been reading into it, and the paragraph that initially stood out the most was thus:
Attachment therapists... ...would add the following symptoms: lack of cause and effect thinking; lack of empathy; poor social cueing; lack of remorse; pre-occupation with blood and gore; fascination with knives; ‘primary process lying’ (lying about something that the other has witnessed); gaze aversion; tactile defensiveness; controlling behaviors; cruelty; explosive rages; impulsivity; instrumental relationships; insensitivity to pain; and co-morbidity with speech pathology, learning disability and Attention Deficit Disorder with Hyperactivity (ADHD).
Good luck man, I have no idea what it was like trying to deal with me when I was young, but so far you're doing a way better job than my parents did.
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited July 2016
As someone who works as a case manager/therapist in CAMHS (albeit in a different country), I'm really glad you got the help you did and had the support of this thread. The system is so difficult to navigate at the best of times and a particular challenge with CAMH in general is that one thing can look like so many other things, with similar symptoms and various ways to piece the picture together. Mostly I'm sorry I didn't see the thread before now!
Reactive attachment disorder is very treatable, for the record, and lots of different therapies have strong evidence bases in its treatment.
Thanks Vivi, that's somewhat reassuring. Perhaps not in the heat of an episode, but certainly from outside of one.
Our therapist has been doubling down on help over the 6-week span of summer, providing transport for our eldest to some clubs to help break the holidays up. As it stands, she now has...
Dance (Mon, Thu 5-6pm, Sat 10am-2pm);
Splice club for special needs kids age 11-19 (Wed 6:30-8:30pm);
Youth Club for special needs kids (Mon, Tue 10am-3:30pm during August);
Family friend offering one night a month respite, usually on a Saturday.
She's also got a ritual of watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer with me and her mum at 8pm (after the younger kids have gone to bed), and playing WoW with her mum.
We've had one major-ish kick-off in the last week. Thankfully she was unable to abscond from the house and, while we got the brunt of the verbal abuse, the younger kids were safeguarded and she eventually burned out and calmed down. The past couple of days have been ok.
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Almost six months of peace. Occupational Therapy and Social Services close the case.
Bought her an Xbox One for her birthday, by request.
Got a call from school, she's upset at PMs she's receiving from other people, could we look into her PM history.
We look into it. Dear fuck.
Sexually and verbally abusive messages sent by her to others. Worse messages that I won't detail here because WTF.
Informed the school in response as to the nature of the messages, sent screenshots as confirmation.
Police and social services arrived this evening to check all was ok.
Eldest goes into a meltdown after the police/So.Se visit, threatening to kill us all, lashing out, etc. After three hours she calmed down.
Kinda lost for words, yet again. I guess some things won't change.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Wow. Uh. I hope very much for the sake of her future and those around her that she figures out it's not acceptable to do that.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I'm sorry this isn't improving for you. I would be very worried about physical manifestation of violent behavior at schoolmates and others who won't be understanding.
Eventually if this keeps up, someone will file charges and an Xbox One tantrum will seem trivial. I had a cousin who ended up in juvenile/adult state care and remember seeing how strange and terrifying a path it was for her. Though at the time we were the same age, so I guess my perspective may be off.
I'm not a mental health professional but I don't think it's going to end well if she makes faculty and students feel unsafe. Just as someone who remembers school and how weird and important every social thing seemed.
Is there a backup plan if she is asked to leave the school? I'm pretty sure threats would get you suspended or expelled at my school 20 years ago. It may be time to consider what you will do.
I'm not a mental health professional but I don't think it's going to end well if she makes faculty and students feel unsafe. Just as someone who remembers school and how weird and important every social thing seemed.
The messages have been to and from people she's added to her friends list seemingly at random, no one from school. Aside from one blow-up at school, everyone there sees her as a model student. That being said, when she was assessed by CAMHS in December (who discharged her after saying she was not suffering from a mental illness and therefore wouldn't help) they had to have two people in the room with her at any one time due to past allegations.
Is there a backup plan if she is asked to leave the school? I'm pretty sure threats would get you suspended or expelled at my school 20 years ago. It may be time to consider what you will do.
No, there's no backup plan so I have absolutely no idea what we would do if that happened. I need to inform a school staff member (who works closely with the eldest) of what's gone on over the weekend so I guess I'll bring it up when I call her tomorrow.
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I'm not a mental health professional but I don't think it's going to end well if she makes faculty and students feel unsafe. Just as someone who remembers school and how weird and important every social thing seemed.
The messages have been to and from people she's added to her friends list seemingly at random, no one from school. Aside from one blow-up at school, everyone there sees her as a model student. That being said, when she was assessed by CAMHS in December (who discharged her after saying she was not suffering from a mental illness and therefore wouldn't help) they had to have two people in the room with her at any one time due to past allegations.
Is there a backup plan if she is asked to leave the school? I'm pretty sure threats would get you suspended or expelled at my school 20 years ago. It may be time to consider what you will do.
No, there's no backup plan so I have absolutely no idea what we would do if that happened. I need to inform a school staff member (who works closely with the eldest) of what's gone on over the weekend so I guess I'll bring it up when I call her tomorrow.
Any chance she is trying to bring back in the services? I don't know exactly what was being done, but it is not unimaginable she would start back up to kind of force a return. Seems a bit iffy with a 4 month delay though, but every kid is different.
Is there not a parental control setting to block that?
I think you misread - Shes been sending awful abusive PMs
Oh shit yeah I misread that.
But with parental controls, can you still not lock that down?
Yeah we locked it down behind a 6 digit pin when we found out what was happening.
@Gnizmo , you could be right about her wanting the services brought back in; she thrives on being the centre of attention.
Today she refused to get on the bus home from school. Two hours later it took myself, the school councilor and two police officers to get her home, (she with the police, myself with the councillor to avoid aggravating her further) but at some point on the journey back she dropped the attitude, apologised to the police, myself and the councillor and entered the house without issue. The officers described it as being like someone had flicked a switch - a phrase I've used many times to describe her sudden turns in behaviour.
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Services are likely to be brought back in, and the police are referring hard to CAHMS: she stole a knife from the kitchen and took it into school with the initial intention of attacking another student.
Thankfully, she had the presence of mind and change of heart to realise what she was doing as soon as she got to school and turned herself over to a teacher.
Police were called and she was issued a five day exclusion from school. The police brought her home and explained that while they would prefer not to bring charges, they would let us know what the final decision would be in a few days. They were cool about the whole thing, commenting that the eldest was calm and repentant both at school and on the journey home. Progress I guess.
Fun and games, waaaayyyyy.
[screams internally]
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I went ahead and awesome'd that because.. well.. because she not only realized what she was doing but instead of trying to hide it until she got home and take a risk, took full responsibility for her actions and what she had on her person by turning herself in right away.
...I just think that's really awesome, and showed a lot of maturity, acceptance of herself, and responsibility, all of which.. especially for someone her age.. It's amazing, anyway. I can't imagine how difficult everything has been for you with her, but from where I'm standing this is fantastic.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
You know, when the school first called and told us about the knife, they omitted the part where she turned herself in and whatnot.
So from the school calling, and the police turning up, I was seething and expecting the worst.
I was still upset - broke the safe back out and went back to storing all the sharp stuff in there - but was pleased that she'd had that sort of self-assessment. It's rare for that to happen.
We recalled that her mum and I heard a plate clattering in the kitchen while we were up in bed, and when her mum went to check, there was no-one else downstairs. In hindsight, she must have snuck downstairs after midnight, taken the knife directly from the draining board on the kitchen sink, and padded back upstairs with it.
But, back on the safe. Never again.
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A few weeks ago she absconded from home; she was cleaning her room and said she was popping outside to empty her bin into the large wheelie bin outside. I was messaged by my sister who saw her heading eastwards out of the street in jacket and backpack (the latter proves it was premeditated). Upon getting the message I ran and caught up with her; she refused to come home and began kicking me, screaming that I wasn't her dad. I tried to restrain her, and two gentlemen working on a nearby car intervened. I tried to explain the situation but, as an outsider, you can imagine how it looked. Luckily enough my aforementioned sister's fiance, who had headed out looking for us based on the initial text, pulled up in his car and backed me up. We got the eldest bundled into the car and returned home; my sister chatted with her for a while and she returned to the house relatively calm and apologetic.
EDIT:
The following night, she traveled to club as usual but she hadn't returned home by the usual 8pm.
Turns out that she had gotten out of the taxi early (just before 6pm) and then wandered the streets for eight hours, finally arriving at our front door at 2am without explaining where she'd been for that time.
Recently (ie the last fortnight) she has repeatedly stolen her siblings tablets and her mum's mobile phone. On the tablets, she creates multiple facebook accounts and adds any male with a bare torso in their profile photo, exchanging messages wherever possible. When pulled up, she does her usual shtick and becomes aggressive, physically and verbally.
Yesterday she presented at school, saying that she'd stolen a knife from the kitchen (I eventually found the knife in the drawer of her bedroom desk).
It gets worse.
I booked her usual taxi to take her to a nearby afterschool, special needs club. She attended, but had (unbeknownst to us at the time) stolen her mum's mobile phone. We realised the phone was missing just as she returned, and her mum asked her for it back.
Based on the prior false 999 calls, her mum asked if the police were coming. The eldest shrugged.
A police officer attended, and said that the young woman on the other end of the call (using her mum's mobile phone) she had done something awful to her younger sister.
Worse, when questioned, her younger sister corroborated this, and gave further context.
So the following day, today, we demand that Social Services remove her from our care, because we cannot in good conscience keep her here amongst the younger three kids. Yet Social Services say that they can't just remove a challenged child without a deliberate process.
I get it. It makes sense, logically, it follows.
But.
I can't have this person in this house any more.
For over fifteen years I have done my best to act as father to her, yet she is a lazy, violent, ignorant, seemingly sociopathic being who doesn't care one jot about who suffers to her ends.
No more. To safeguard my youngest three kids and, in all seriousness, my own mental health and that of my wife, I am following procedure to have her removed from our home.
Here ends my update on this household.
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I've been trying to avoid this but it seems like the inevitable consequence.
What makes it worse is that the youngest has been unhappy and antisocial for weeks, and I'm terrified that it's because of the historical actions of the eldest.
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Damn Kneel, I just spent the past hour reading through the whole thread and it seems like you have suffered enough mate. I sincerely believe you have done everything you could've done as a parent and I think the ball is out of your hands. Sometimes shit doesn't work out. Getting her removed from your home and placing her in professional care is the best way to go forward and I am happy that you have made that decision. Cheer up and good luck mate.
i live in a country with a batshit crazy president and no, english is not my first language
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
It's not your fault. There is nothing you could have done differently. It sounds like she needs to be hospitalized in a permanent care facility for her issues, but that is for professionals to determine when she is not present to be a danger to your family. Focus on the remaining members of your family and healing from this whole ordeal.
I hesitate to say this but given the knife and the violence... if you haven't yet, I might install locks on everyone's doors at night as long as she is still there. Maybe that would make things worse.
Damn Kneel, I just spent the past hour reading through the whole thread and it seems like you have suffered enough mate. I sincerely believe you have done everything you could've done as a parent and I think the ball is out of your hands. Sometimes shit doesn't work out. Getting her removed from your home and placing her in professional care is the best way to go forward and I am happy that you have made that decision. Cheer up and good luck mate.
I wouldn't normally suggest this, but this is definitely an edge case, so in the interest of getting her away from the other kids:
Can you have her arrested for any of this? Theft, abusing siblings, etc?
I pushed for this with Merseyside Police: they say that, under the circumstances and given the learning difficulties of the eldest that she not be formally charged.
That being said, I have been told that Social Services are looking into an alternative placement for her, but there is no guarantee as to at or when that will be.
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You're doing the right thing. Sometimes it doesn't feel like the good thing or the nicest thing, but it's the right decision.
Edit: To add, I still think this thread title is dismissive of the tremendous effort you've made. You're also not abandoning your obligation to care for your daughter. Mental Health is scary strange stuff, it takes professionals with lots of education and experience to wrangle things like this.
It's in her best interest. You need her to be safe and get help. Think of this as you would if you were seeking help for a physical illness. Removal of a gallbladder or appendix isn't giving up just because you go to a hospital instead of trying to do it at home.
You're still her dad. You've still got a daughter. You still have to care for your family, her included. Ensuring the safety of everyone is a part of that responsibility and you're doing a hell of a job.
dispatch.o on
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
I'm so sorry, Kneel.
I wish things had been different, but they're not. Can you have her involuntarily committed until she can be removed from your custody? It seems like something along those lines must be possible... people send their kids to things involuntarily all the time, it can't be out of the question to find a decent facility that will house her temporarily?
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
After a social care panel meeting yesterday, during which our social worker brought our request for a care placement, the panel rejected the request.
They felt that it was not appropriate at this time for the eldest to be placed into care, and that further safeguarding is a solely parental responsibility.
Our social worker is now trying to see if she can get a few days a week respite for us via a new care home set-up for 'edge of care' cases like this. Meanwhile the eldest is saying she lied during the police statement, and the youngest is being inconsistent - but of course she is only 5.
I don't know what the fuck to think or do anymore.
Regardless, we have to take the eldest to another mental health appointment this morning after a referral from the police, then I need to take my wife to the hospital to get fitted with ECG equipment for sleep apnoea testing.
A fun day.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited April 2017
Do you have any family or friends you can send your younger to until she is elsewhere, for their safety?
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Have you looked into having yourself diagnosed as suffering from stress(I'm sure you are at this point)? I'm thinking something along the line of both you and your wife being declared as medically unfit of caring for your eldest but fit enough to care for your younger, healthy children. Would need to find out first if your local laws can handle that kind of fine tuning.
I'm not sure if you've discussed or tried this, but this seems like the kind of situation where you might be able to have your daughter sectioned (especially since there's good reason to consider her a danger to the rest of your family). It could be an alternative if she can't be put into care and the police won't arrest.
I'm wishing you all the best with this - it's a horrible situation to be in.
I wish things had been different, but they're not. Can you have her involuntarily committed until she can be removed from your custody? It seems like something along those lines must be possible... people send their kids to things involuntarily all the time, it can't be out of the question to find a decent facility that will house her temporarily?
I was wondering the same thing. We're in the US, but the wife is a teacher in a psych hospital for kids (5 - 18 yrs old) in crisis and the vast majority of those kids don't want to be there, some for things that sound way less intense than what you are experiencing. The danger to others aspect (in terms of your other children and the knife at school) seems very much like something that might require hospitalization.
Is there any appeals process? I don't know what she might have done to your other kids but I have a very difficult time understanding the inability of the panel to take action based on what you've shared with us and the bringing of weapons to school.
Posts
(You're my fucking hero, btw, Kneel. My daughter (2) is.. well hopefully just two, but the similarity has me taking notes)
There's a reason it's called the terrible twos
Let us know how it goes!
/relurk
We initially thought it was just terrible twos, until she was five, still behaving that way and showing learning delays. All I can recommend is that you be patient but, in the meantime, if you have any concerns about the potential for something like autism then you can take her along to a GP for a chat on the subject, even if only to calm your fears a little.
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Our therapist is leaning heavily towards Reactive Attachment Disorder, with a mind to re-refer to CAMHS for further support and cognitive therapy. I've been reading into it, and the paragraph that initially stood out the most was thus:
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Though obviously it's a "Diagnosis is the first step towards proper treatment" awesome and not a CAMHS is awesome.
Good luck man, I have no idea what it was like trying to deal with me when I was young, but so far you're doing a way better job than my parents did.
Reactive attachment disorder is very treatable, for the record, and lots of different therapies have strong evidence bases in its treatment.
Our therapist has been doubling down on help over the 6-week span of summer, providing transport for our eldest to some clubs to help break the holidays up. As it stands, she now has...
Dance (Mon, Thu 5-6pm, Sat 10am-2pm);
Splice club for special needs kids age 11-19 (Wed 6:30-8:30pm);
Youth Club for special needs kids (Mon, Tue 10am-3:30pm during August);
Family friend offering one night a month respite, usually on a Saturday.
She's also got a ritual of watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer with me and her mum at 8pm (after the younger kids have gone to bed), and playing WoW with her mum.
We've had one major-ish kick-off in the last week. Thankfully she was unable to abscond from the house and, while we got the brunt of the verbal abuse, the younger kids were safeguarded and she eventually burned out and calmed down. The past couple of days have been ok.
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Bought her an Xbox One for her birthday, by request.
Got a call from school, she's upset at PMs she's receiving from other people, could we look into her PM history.
We look into it. Dear fuck.
Sexually and verbally abusive messages sent by her to others. Worse messages that I won't detail here because WTF.
Informed the school in response as to the nature of the messages, sent screenshots as confirmation.
Police and social services arrived this evening to check all was ok.
Eldest goes into a meltdown after the police/So.Se visit, threatening to kill us all, lashing out, etc. After three hours she calmed down.
Kinda lost for words, yet again. I guess some things won't change.
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Eventually if this keeps up, someone will file charges and an Xbox One tantrum will seem trivial. I had a cousin who ended up in juvenile/adult state care and remember seeing how strange and terrifying a path it was for her. Though at the time we were the same age, so I guess my perspective may be off.
I'm not a mental health professional but I don't think it's going to end well if she makes faculty and students feel unsafe. Just as someone who remembers school and how weird and important every social thing seemed.
Is there a backup plan if she is asked to leave the school? I'm pretty sure threats would get you suspended or expelled at my school 20 years ago. It may be time to consider what you will do.
About four months I think.
The messages have been to and from people she's added to her friends list seemingly at random, no one from school. Aside from one blow-up at school, everyone there sees her as a model student. That being said, when she was assessed by CAMHS in December (who discharged her after saying she was not suffering from a mental illness and therefore wouldn't help) they had to have two people in the room with her at any one time due to past allegations.
No, there's no backup plan so I have absolutely no idea what we would do if that happened. I need to inform a school staff member (who works closely with the eldest) of what's gone on over the weekend so I guess I'll bring it up when I call her tomorrow.
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Is there not a parental control setting to block that?
I think you misread - Shes been sending awful abusive PMs
Oh shit yeah I misread that.
But with parental controls, can you still not lock that down?
Any chance she is trying to bring back in the services? I don't know exactly what was being done, but it is not unimaginable she would start back up to kind of force a return. Seems a bit iffy with a 4 month delay though, but every kid is different.
Yeah we locked it down behind a 6 digit pin when we found out what was happening.
@Gnizmo , you could be right about her wanting the services brought back in; she thrives on being the centre of attention.
Today she refused to get on the bus home from school. Two hours later it took myself, the school councilor and two police officers to get her home, (she with the police, myself with the councillor to avoid aggravating her further) but at some point on the journey back she dropped the attitude, apologised to the police, myself and the councillor and entered the house without issue. The officers described it as being like someone had flicked a switch - a phrase I've used many times to describe her sudden turns in behaviour.
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Thankfully, she had the presence of mind and change of heart to realise what she was doing as soon as she got to school and turned herself over to a teacher.
Police were called and she was issued a five day exclusion from school. The police brought her home and explained that while they would prefer not to bring charges, they would let us know what the final decision would be in a few days. They were cool about the whole thing, commenting that the eldest was calm and repentant both at school and on the journey home. Progress I guess.
Fun and games, waaaayyyyy.
[screams internally]
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...I just think that's really awesome, and showed a lot of maturity, acceptance of herself, and responsibility, all of which.. especially for someone her age.. It's amazing, anyway. I can't imagine how difficult everything has been for you with her, but from where I'm standing this is fantastic.
So from the school calling, and the police turning up, I was seething and expecting the worst.
I was still upset - broke the safe back out and went back to storing all the sharp stuff in there - but was pleased that she'd had that sort of self-assessment. It's rare for that to happen.
We recalled that her mum and I heard a plate clattering in the kitchen while we were up in bed, and when her mum went to check, there was no-one else downstairs. In hindsight, she must have snuck downstairs after midnight, taken the knife directly from the draining board on the kitchen sink, and padded back upstairs with it.
But, back on the safe. Never again.
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Things went to shit.
A few weeks ago she absconded from home; she was cleaning her room and said she was popping outside to empty her bin into the large wheelie bin outside. I was messaged by my sister who saw her heading eastwards out of the street in jacket and backpack (the latter proves it was premeditated). Upon getting the message I ran and caught up with her; she refused to come home and began kicking me, screaming that I wasn't her dad. I tried to restrain her, and two gentlemen working on a nearby car intervened. I tried to explain the situation but, as an outsider, you can imagine how it looked. Luckily enough my aforementioned sister's fiance, who had headed out looking for us based on the initial text, pulled up in his car and backed me up. We got the eldest bundled into the car and returned home; my sister chatted with her for a while and she returned to the house relatively calm and apologetic.
EDIT:
The following night, she traveled to club as usual but she hadn't returned home by the usual 8pm.
Turns out that she had gotten out of the taxi early (just before 6pm) and then wandered the streets for eight hours, finally arriving at our front door at 2am without explaining where she'd been for that time.
Recently (ie the last fortnight) she has repeatedly stolen her siblings tablets and her mum's mobile phone. On the tablets, she creates multiple facebook accounts and adds any male with a bare torso in their profile photo, exchanging messages wherever possible. When pulled up, she does her usual shtick and becomes aggressive, physically and verbally.
Yesterday she presented at school, saying that she'd stolen a knife from the kitchen (I eventually found the knife in the drawer of her bedroom desk).
It gets worse.
I booked her usual taxi to take her to a nearby afterschool, special needs club. She attended, but had (unbeknownst to us at the time) stolen her mum's mobile phone. We realised the phone was missing just as she returned, and her mum asked her for it back.
Based on the prior false 999 calls, her mum asked if the police were coming. The eldest shrugged.
A police officer attended, and said that the young woman on the other end of the call (using her mum's mobile phone) she had done something awful to her younger sister.
Worse, when questioned, her younger sister corroborated this, and gave further context.
So the following day, today, we demand that Social Services remove her from our care, because we cannot in good conscience keep her here amongst the younger three kids. Yet Social Services say that they can't just remove a challenged child without a deliberate process.
I get it. It makes sense, logically, it follows.
But.
I can't have this person in this house any more.
For over fifteen years I have done my best to act as father to her, yet she is a lazy, violent, ignorant, seemingly sociopathic being who doesn't care one jot about who suffers to her ends.
No more. To safeguard my youngest three kids and, in all seriousness, my own mental health and that of my wife, I am following procedure to have her removed from our home.
Here ends my update on this household.
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It sounds like you and your wife are making the best decisions for your family.
Stay strong.
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I've been trying to avoid this but it seems like the inevitable consequence.
What makes it worse is that the youngest has been unhappy and antisocial for weeks, and I'm terrified that it's because of the historical actions of the eldest.
Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
I hesitate to say this but given the knife and the violence... if you haven't yet, I might install locks on everyone's doors at night as long as she is still there. Maybe that would make things worse.
Can you have her arrested for any of this? Theft, abusing siblings, etc?
I cannot believe that she has done this to us.
This is my greatest regret.
I pushed for this with Merseyside Police: they say that, under the circumstances and given the learning difficulties of the eldest that she not be formally charged.
That being said, I have been told that Social Services are looking into an alternative placement for her, but there is no guarantee as to at or when that will be.
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you've done everything in your power but at the end of the day sometimes that's not enough
Edit: To add, I still think this thread title is dismissive of the tremendous effort you've made. You're also not abandoning your obligation to care for your daughter. Mental Health is scary strange stuff, it takes professionals with lots of education and experience to wrangle things like this.
It's in her best interest. You need her to be safe and get help. Think of this as you would if you were seeking help for a physical illness. Removal of a gallbladder or appendix isn't giving up just because you go to a hospital instead of trying to do it at home.
You're still her dad. You've still got a daughter. You still have to care for your family, her included. Ensuring the safety of everyone is a part of that responsibility and you're doing a hell of a job.
I wish things had been different, but they're not. Can you have her involuntarily committed until she can be removed from your custody? It seems like something along those lines must be possible... people send their kids to things involuntarily all the time, it can't be out of the question to find a decent facility that will house her temporarily?
After a social care panel meeting yesterday, during which our social worker brought our request for a care placement, the panel rejected the request.
They felt that it was not appropriate at this time for the eldest to be placed into care, and that further safeguarding is a solely parental responsibility.
Our social worker is now trying to see if she can get a few days a week respite for us via a new care home set-up for 'edge of care' cases like this. Meanwhile the eldest is saying she lied during the police statement, and the youngest is being inconsistent - but of course she is only 5.
I don't know what the fuck to think or do anymore.
Regardless, we have to take the eldest to another mental health appointment this morning after a referral from the police, then I need to take my wife to the hospital to get fitted with ECG equipment for sleep apnoea testing.
A fun day.
Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
Visit him at Monstrous Pigments' Instagram and Facebook pages!
I'm wishing you all the best with this - it's a horrible situation to be in.
I was wondering the same thing. We're in the US, but the wife is a teacher in a psych hospital for kids (5 - 18 yrs old) in crisis and the vast majority of those kids don't want to be there, some for things that sound way less intense than what you are experiencing. The danger to others aspect (in terms of your other children and the knife at school) seems very much like something that might require hospitalization.
Is there any appeals process? I don't know what she might have done to your other kids but I have a very difficult time understanding the inability of the panel to take action based on what you've shared with us and the bringing of weapons to school.