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Enter the Gungeon: That's when I reach for my revolver

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Posts

  • ZekZek regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    heenato wrote: »
    Keys on basically anything is kind of a waste, because keys don't exist, basically. The drop rate on keys is just flat out terrible. And the key drop rate just compunds other smaller problems into really big ones. Ammo scarsity? Well, you don't have keys to be able to have gun. Cant do secret things? Well it's probably cause you have no keys.

    It's incredibly frustrating because the game will quite often in my experience, just tell you you're not allowed to play the game or have fun.

    I haven't had any of these problems honestly. I generally have enough keys if I only open non-brown chests, and almost never run out of ammo on all my guns. If you have shit luck on key drops you can usually buy them.

    Zek on
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. like fire Registered User regular
    honestly though i don't think "don't open some chests" is good game design

    i wanna open chests! it's a video game! I AM TRAINED.

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    3clipseKoopahTroopahmilskicooljammer00joshofalltrades
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Cross posting from Steam thread. I finally made it past level 3, all the way to 5. Found a Golden Gun, a Shock Rifle, and a Megaman blaster. The best item though was the Hat of Unlocking which gave me keys when I consecutively cleared rooms without taking hits. Talk about easy mode. So the level 4 boss was wrecking me, but I made it passed him with a heart left. Walked one room into level 5 and a giant hammer teleported to me and killed me out of no where.

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    Good game, but I have the same complaints as above. Controller shoot button instead of twin stick like Isaac is awkward after putting so many hours into Isaac. No save progress on exit is super lame. Can't tell if the Hunter is just really good or if the other characters just suck, probably a combination of both.

    Hunter dog is best dog. Finds me blanks and keys all day son.

    vH0O2se.gif
  • ReddayeReddaye regular Registered User regular
    I tend to skip over brown chests if I'm tight on keys, or use the lockpick on them if I'm the Pilot. The only time I do much with brown chests is if they're both brown on the first floor and I need a gun. Personally I like needing to take your resources into account and make some decisions. Most floors have at least two chest rooms, if not more chests total.

    I'm finding that I make a lot more use of the Gun Muncher and Grate Guy as I play now, and along with being stingy on key use it's leading to better runs overall. I'll often trade in guns I no longer want, or typically when using the Convict, use up the sawn off by floor two and dump it for excess shop cash, or gun munching. I've even used the blank shrine and fed the reward to the Mucher to get a far better gun.



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    B.Net: Reddaye#1566 | XBL: Reddaye | Switch: SW-8139-5048-9405
  • chris: waffle kingchris: waffle king regular Registered User regular
    @KoopahTroopah , holy crow. Five deaths? i'm up to something like 30 now, and i've just started to reliably get to the 2nd chamber boss. Well done, good turtle, well done.

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    時計仕掛けの子の丸々太った磁器の顔に表情は無いが、転がりながら、口がカチッと開閉して、腕が上下に動い た。

    ージョン・タインズ、作家
    ー無名狂師、翻訳者 (俺)
    Wanna watch a gaijin butcher monsters and the Japanese Language all at once? Sure you do, and now you can!
    KoopahTroopah
  • CantidoCantido regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    honestly though i don't think "don't open some chests" is good game design

    i wanna open chests! it's a video game! I AM TRAINED.

    If you can't have it, shoot it open and see if RNG doesnt destroy the loot.

    EDIT - Which I just did. So it turned out to be ammo. I'm on Floor 1, so I figured I'd kick back and use my new AK. I returned to find the ammo gone with a thank you note:
    "Thanks for the ammo! - R.R."
    :rotate:

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • RubycatRubycat regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    The Rat takes anything that's not a key, armor or health i think when you leave a room, but i'm reading you might be able to go right back after leaving and scare him off by shooting at him, but i dunno i don't leave anything anymore.

    Rubycat on
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    PSN: Rubycat3 / NintentdoID: Rubycat
  • heenatoheenato regular Registered User regular
    Rubycat wrote: »
    The Rat takes anything that's not a key, armor or health i think when you leave a room, but i'm reading you might be able to go right back after leaving and scare him off by shooting at him, but i dunno i don't leave anything anymore.
    You have to do it twice before he gets the hint, actually. And you have to do it for EVERY item you leave on the ground.

    It's a dumb mechanic.

    M A G I K A Z A M
    SkutSkut
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut regular Registered User regular
    The first time is instant and the second time you either have to teleport far away or wait a minute or two. The rat is awful.

  • jclastjclast regular Registered User regular
    I'm super bad at this game, but I enjoy being terrible at it. The Bullet King can screw right off. And I think I have to go back to blanks on L3+R3 - hitting circle just isn't working out like I thought it would.

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    chris: waffle king
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    Yeah there are a few things adding up that kinda dampen the fun for me. For a place called a Gungeon it's pretty stingy with the guns.

    And the rat explains a few things. What is the point of that mechanic? Part of what I like about roguelites is going back and scrounging up stuff after blitzing through an area.

    I want to love this but I'm usually left feeling like I would have had more fun playing Nuclear Throne or Starward Rogue.

  • WyvernWyvern regular Registered User regular
    Rubycat wrote: »
    The Rat takes anything that's not a key, armor or health i think when you leave a room, but i'm reading you might be able to go right back after leaving and scare him off by shooting at him, but i dunno i don't leave anything anymore.
    The rat totally takes armor.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite regular New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Drake wrote: »
    Yeah there are a few things adding up that kinda dampen the fun for me. For a place called a Gungeon it's pretty stingy with the guns.

    And the rat explains a few things. What is the point of that mechanic? Part of what I like about roguelites is going back and scrounging up stuff after blitzing through an area.

    I want to love this but I'm usually left feeling like I would have had more fun playing Nuclear Throne or Starward Rogue.

    This is kinda where I'm at after maybe a couple dozen runs. Nuclear Throne feels like a much more streamlined experience; Binding of Isaac has more variety. There's a bunch of stuff that isn't quite there in Gungeon; the rat, the weird lack of teleporters in every room, the meager rate of shop cash being doled out, the difficulty of finding secret rooms, the bosses with just a little bit too much health. Just a bunch of tiny complaints that add up.

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  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai regular Registered User regular
    I have no idea what this rat thing is

    PSN SeGaTai
    KoopahTroopah
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    I have no idea what this rat thing is

    I agree. I haven't seen it yet, or the vampire curse lady that people are talking about.

    I did unlock a Link looking character from a cell during my last run though. God knows what he does.

    vH0O2se.gif
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite regular New ZealandRegistered User regular
    If you leave stuff like armour or ammo packs on the ground, a rat dude will steal them when you leave the room. Just weird and pointless.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
  • CantidoCantido regular Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    I have no idea what this rat thing is

    I agree. I haven't seen it yet, or the vampire curse lady that people are talking about.

    I did unlock a Link looking character from a cell during my last run though. God knows what he does.

    200_s.gif

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    SkutSkut
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Gungeon is a bullet hell at heart, so it's probably fairer than Nuclear Throne. Like I'm sure with enough time investment the game can be beaten with starter pistol, no upgrades, no hit.

    Also there's definitely more RNG in Throne than Gungeon, Throne runs are just so short it doesn't matter.

    Gungeon just needs some fine tuning and it'll be top tier rogue like/bullet hell hybrid.

    SkutSkut on
    CantidoDrakeKoopahTroopah3clipseprogramjunkie
  • ReddayeReddaye regular Registered User regular
    Probably the biggest thing that's hitting me right now is once a run ends, I don't feel the immediate urge for another one. I'll die on the fourth floor and just think of how long it took to get there, and end up taking a break for a while. I suppose that's not a BAD thing really, but it's a bit odd for these kinds of games.

    On the plus side; I'm actually getting to the fourth floor consistently. That's something.

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    B.Net: Reddaye#1566 | XBL: Reddaye | Switch: SW-8139-5048-9405
    KoopahTroopah
  • ZekZek regular Registered User regular
    The point of the rat is to prevent you from min/maxing stuff like ammo drops by going back to pick it up later after using every last bullet of your gun. It encourages you to use guns proactively so that you have some ammo to refill if you do come across an ammo box. Similarly it prevents you from keeping usable items stashed away for later.

    AegeriReddayeRatsult2Dark_Sideprogramjunkie
  • jclastjclast regular Registered User regular
    Yes, but that is lame.

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    3clipseSkutSkutCantidoDrakehushmilskiKoopahTroopahDiannaoChongjoshofalltrades
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite regular New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It is.

    Right now I think an overall damage boost for non-starting weapons would do wonders for the game, and let me forget most of my annoyances. I find myself using the starter pistol even over stuff like the RPG, because it puts out about the same DPS and I don't have to care about ammo.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
  • sPider817sPider817 regular Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Happened to get a 27% off coupon from GMG for my b-day, so with that plus it already being 10% off, I managed to pick it up for like $9 and some change. Already invested like 1/3 the time I have into Nuclear Throne and I've been playing it off and on for months. Totally selling my PS4-playing friends at work on it.

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  • CantidoCantido regular Registered User regular
    I have a golden key, and somewhere on the map, there is a locked corridor with a grey symbol. How do I get into this room?

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite regular New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Regular key, most likely.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
    AegeriKoopahTroopah
  • AegeriAegeri regular Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Regular key, most likely.

    Yes you need a regular key.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • heenatoheenato regular Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    The point of the rat is to prevent you from min/maxing stuff like ammo drops by going back to pick it up later after using every last bullet of your gun. It encourages you to use guns proactively so that you have some ammo to refill if you do come across an ammo box. Similarly it prevents you from keeping usable items stashed away for later.
    The problem ends up being you're gonna be hard pressed to actually FIND another ammo box. So of course you're going to want to save it until you actually need it.

    M A G I K A Z A M
    Drakejclast3clipse
  • TorgaironTorgairon regular Registered User regular
    anyone have any tips for the boss that's the...
    3rd floor tank with the insane add spawns

    i've gotten the fifth floor boss to 10% of its bar, have about 25 deaths of boss experience and the one in spoilers is the only one that just crushes my life total to the point of ruining runs.

  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I hide behind the pillars and try to keep him in the center as I circle around him while shooting through the openings. Usually I kill him before he blows up all my cover.

    KoopahTroopah on
    vH0O2se.gif
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Reddaye wrote: »
    So, I guess it turns out that Curse is a hidden stat in the game. Certain things, such as buying/interacting with particular NPCs will raise your Curse level. Which is indicated by a little purple-ish/pink icon that briefly displays over your head. As far as I can figure out it causes champion/elite enemies to spawn more often.

    a wiki spoiled me on this:
    If it gets high enough, a enemy shows up and is invulnerable and chases you forever.


    I watched the GB quicklook of the game and I saw like 3-5 things pop up in their 2 runs while I have seen basically nothing in my ~20. I was kind of flabbergasted and watched it because I was sure I was missing something. I have to stop playing games that depend heavily on RNG for content.

    *Sees note about stealing my ammo* "oh I guess I would be mad at that rat if I ever got guns" *rolls eyes, dies again from boredom of the peashooter*

    DiannaoChong on
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    hushReddaye
  • TorgaironTorgairon regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I hide behind the pillars and try to keep him in the center as I circle around him while shooting through the openings. Usually I kill him before he blows up all my cover.

    I hugged the wall during this run's go-round and just perfected him, pretty sure it was all stinger (as in, the launcher that shoots bees) but I'm not complaining

    still have yet to beat the fifth floor, this game is a lot like isaac (in this and so many other ways) in that the floors themselves are often much more strenuous than the bosses. this is probably the fourth or fifth run where I've perfected bosses 1 through 3 and I still don't expect a win this run by any means.

    edit: yeah, 5% on fifth boss's health when i died this time. final phase too real...

    Torgairon on
  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico regular Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Is anyone else playing this on PS4 and tried to get the local co-op going? I start a game, talk to Purple Hood at the Breach, enable co-op, he turns around as if to show that he can now be controlled by the second controller aaaand nothing. Nothing we press on the second controller makes him move. We have tried everything. And yes, the second controller is fully charged up - that is definitely not the problem.

    akyxa17p3s5g.png
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Gungeon is a really fun concept, but there are just so many minor annoyances that it can get frustrating.
    • The default control scheme feels weird compared to other games in the genre
    • The map always starts so zoomed in as to be useless, and doesn't actually contain enough detail to justify not just showing the full floor every time.
    • Teleporters are surprisingly scarce to the point most of my runs are based around guessing the least tedious way to fully explore.
    • Bosses have too much health.
    • DPS on weapon pickups seems to be standardized to just above the DPS of the starter pistol. "Big" weapons like the RPG or grenade launcher are only really useful as alpha strikes, since you can do as much damage and switch targets more fluidly with the starter pistol. Some weapons are more powerful, though.
    • Ammo feels inconsistent. Mahoguny, a semi-auto light grenade launcher that deals about 4x pistol shot damage at a decent fire rate, has 300+ ammo. H4mmer, an automatic revolver that's entirely about vomiting out tons of low damage shots, has barely more than this.
    • Most reloading/magazine based gimmicks are too weak to be relevant. It's basically worthless to try to play around the "last bullet in the magazine" gimmick, which just means the weapons have slightly higher DPS against really durable opponents. On the other hand "Stronger with more bullets in the magazine" and "swap on reload" don't offer much in the way of active decisions.
    • Offensive active items are incredibly weak. Defensive active items almost always seem strong.
    • Why do certain items add curse on pickup? None of them are really that overpowered, and one of them is a defensive item far weaker than one of the many invincibility granting ones.
    • Status effects are incredibly "overvalued" in design, meaning most guns that apply status effects are really weak to compensate e.g. Phoenix, a gun that applies flame in melee range and is otherwise a starter pistol.
    • Multihit/bouncing weapons are incredibly undervalued, meaning most guns that bounce a ton are probably going to wreck. Gunbow or the Super Meat Boy reference gun both destroy random rooms and (Gunbow in particular) do excellent DPS to bosses.
    • Enemies fire from offscreen far too often.
    • It is far too easy to wind up with 6+ guns and no passive items.
    • The weapon swapping scheme is either "scroll through all your guns" or "scroll through these two guns." I wish you could quickswap between any given set of guns, so I could switch between all "useful" guns when I have three guns.
    • Identical enemies get more durable on lower floors. Why? Spawn something more threatening, don't make default bulletkin take five shots instead of three.
    • Drops are too scarce, meaning that keys will almost always be massively limited. This is especially true if key doors or extra chests spawn, and even more especially true when the shopkeeper is blocked off by a key door (seriously?)
    • The rat that steals items if you leave them, but can be driven off. This is dumb. This is a dumb system. It'd be better if the drops just disappeared and weren't indicated on your minimap if you were that concerned with hoarding.
    • It'd be nice if we could see the effects or at least the icon for items we buy to send into the Gungeon.
    • The elevator costs a ridiculous amount to repair. I guess that might be the point, to ensure that you can clear your way to it without actually needing to buy weapons or unlock chests, but even without buying anything or unlocking any chests it's probably more likely than not I don't have 120 shells and 3 keys by the end of the second floor.
    • Accuracy is too low. I understand having certain guns be inaccurate, and certain guns be *really* inaccurate, but most semi-automatic guns are still super inconsistent.

    milski on
    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
    3clipsehushKoopahTroopahjoshofalltrades
  • AegeriAegeri regular Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I have some thoughts on some of these points after a fair amount of play of this game now.
    milski wrote: »
    The default control scheme feels weird compared to other games in the genre

    I agree. I endlessly fiddled around with this.
    Teleporters are surprisingly scarce to the point most of my runs are based around guessing the least tedious way to fully explore.

    Don't really agree with this at all.
    Bosses have too much health.

    Certain guns are best for murdering bosses, some for clearing rooms and so on. The weapons that kill bosses do so immensely effectively. It's a balancing act, but I do admit it sucks royal balls if you don't get decent guns in a run. This is really the problem, because there are plenty of guns for owning the shit out of bosses, but if they don't drop...
    Most reloading/magazine based gimmicks are too weak to be relevant. It's basically worthless to try to play around the "last bullet in the magazine" gimmick, which just means the weapons have slightly higher DPS against really durable opponents. On the other hand "Stronger with more bullets in the magazine" and "swap on reload" don't offer much in the way of active decisions.

    Some of them aren't bad, like the Light Gun's duck (that homes after people) and the ice/fire effect on the Judge. The ones that create friendly creatures to kill the shit out of things are another, like the Beholder Cannon.
    Offensive active items are incredibly weak. Defensive active items almost always seem strong.

    Not to mention that they are a fucking pain to even use half the time. I agree that defensive items seem to be substantially better.
    Why do certain items add curse on pickup? None of them are really that overpowered, and one of them is a defensive item far weaker than one of the many invincibility granting ones.

    Things that banish bullets and go against the "gun" stylings of the game add curse. If it builds up high enough....
    Multihit/bouncing weapons are incredibly undervalued, meaning most guns that bounce a ton are probably going to wreck. Gunbow or the Super Meat Boy reference gun both destroy random rooms and (Gunbow in particular) do excellent DPS to bosses.

    Absolutely agree.
    It is far too easy to wind up with 6+ guns and no passive items.

    God do I hope so. Ever had a run where you get no guns at all from the shop/chests on the first floor? It's fucking balls. You should get more guns and passives should be rarer. Nothing is worse than being stuck with a bunch of useless passives and chipping away at a boss for 10 minutes.
    Drops are too scarce, meaning that keys will almost always be massively limited. This is especially true if key doors or extra chests spawn, and even more especially true when the shopkeeper is blocked off by a key door (seriously?)

    They have rebalanced this recently at least.
    The rat that steals items if you leave them, but can be driven off. This is dumb. This is a dumb system. It'd be better if the drops just disappeared and weren't indicated on your minimap if you were that concerned with hoarding.

    I've honestly never noticed the rat stealing things much or thought it was ever particularly relevant to anything I was doing. Ammo I've always used and anything else I'm happy to lose.
    It'd be nice if we could see the effects or at least the icon for items we buy to send into the Gungeon.

    From the shop with the golem? You already can, it's in the center of the room in the little holo thing. Also when you next open the Ammonomicon they will appear on it to show that they have "Entered the gunfight".
    The elevator costs a ridiculous amount to repair. I guess that might be the point, to ensure that you can clear your way to it without actually needing to buy weapons or unlock chests, but even without buying anything or unlocking any chests it's probably more likely than not I don't have 120 shells and 3 keys by the end of the second floor.

    When you use the short cut you encounter a familiar face, who offers you a choice of weapons. The lower you go, the more of the guns you are allowed to take. So it's not quite going to level 2/3/4 without anything at all. It does seem like a lot at first, but it's really not that bad and can be easily accomplished after only a couple of dedicated runs at it.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • UrielUriel regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I found a crossbow that shoots stars that break into smaller stars that bounce off the walls.

    Also there have been way more keys this morning.

    Uriel on
  • ReddayeReddaye regular Registered User regular
    Also, for people struggling with the currency required to fix the elevator, the secret floors seem to have been designed for exactly the purpose of letting you gather greater amounts of currency at the cost of a higher challenge. I don't believe you're even given a mastery item for no hitting the boss, but it's a great way to collect more money. There are some secrets associated with the secret floor(s), but I won't spoil those.

    The overall balance for this game seems to revolve around utilizing guns to their strengths. Some are better for room clearing, others are better at dealing with bosses. I find myself regularly favouring certain guns for certain roles, and it's helped a lot. Things like the grate guy, gun muncher, blank shrine, shop keeper, additional vendors all offer ways to gain new guns, and get rid of ones that either haven't scaled up enough in power to be worth using, or out of ammo and not useful enough to spend resources to refill. The gun muncher in particular is extremely helpful for recycling guns that are no longer useful, and seems to 99% of the time drop something that's more useful to me than what I fed it.

    There does seem to be a flow and idea behind the "meta" in this game. Which isn't to say there aren't balancing issues. I totally agree that offensive active items are pretty much useless past the third floor, yet defensive items remain useful the entire time. This is an issue caused by enemy health scaling as you go down floors. Even regular Bullet Kin take more shots to kill on the 4th floor than they do on the 1st floor. It's debatable whether or not this is a good system or not. Especially when it makes an entire set of items next to useless on later floors.

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  • heenatoheenato regular Registered User regular
    The secret floor costs 2 keys to get to though, so unless they've VASTLY increased key drop rate, it's possible that the secret floor will screw you even worse for unlocking the shortcut.

    M A G I K A Z A M
    milskiKoopahTroopahjoshofalltrades
  • ReddayeReddaye regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    If your purpose is to get enough money on a run to pay the elevator guy off, then you're likely dooming yourself anyway. The meta objectives don't seem very compatible with having a smooth run otherwise.

    Also, in my experience I've haven't gone a floor without getting at least one key since they started patching the game. Maybe I've been extremely lucky, but it does seem the key rates are buffed. Then again, I also find needing to juggle key use as an enjoyable aspect of the game, which a lot of people really dislike.

    EDIT: I just saw somewhere that the latest patch made "small adjustment to early game key balance." So apparently if they didn't make a change before, they made one now.

    EDIT EDIT: From the actual patch notes:

    "Patch 1.0.3 (April 9th)
    =====================================
    Small adjustment to early game key balance"

    So, let's see if it actually makes a noticeable difference.

    Reddaye on
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    B.Net: Reddaye#1566 | XBL: Reddaye | Switch: SW-8139-5048-9405
  • jclastjclast regular Registered User regular
    I don't mind keys as a resource. I mind regularly dying on the secnd floor (I am still not very good) and picking up no keys but seeing chests that require a key to open.

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  • ReddayeReddaye regular Registered User regular
    Hopefully the patch from yesterday improves that. It felt like yesterday I was getting more key drops, and watching Sleep Cycles' stream this morning it seems like he's getting at least a single key on a floor.

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