royce has a slightly different approach to the world, but i think i get the gist of his post. sexism goes across cultures, but there are dynamics at play and the language is tied into that. i don't know royce beyond the forums, but i have known men who say the same kind of shit that is ruffling people's feathers, and it's just... shit, all i can come up with right now is.. Coyote. sometimes our words tangle and we mean other things.
it was basically a blind date, they're not gonna know each other that well, so that's his basis for describing her. describing others of your heritage using words that make people uncomfortable, that's a thing. but.
this dude was clearly not taking 'no' from royce's date. it sucks that this rando didn't respect her, but that shit happens all the time. see my most recent post-club posts for a rant in that vein. if she had bitched royce out for overstepping his role in playing defender, that would be one thing, but he basically describes his mindset as being her backup, especially if this guy tried anything further. and keeping an eye on this other woman, because the bouncers couldn't be trusted to step in. he and his date used physical signifiers of her being 'unavailable', because if royce had actually called these dudes on it, he and his date possibly would've been embroiled in a fight, because there are meatheads who want to 'prove their manhood'. it may have been the satisfying, righteous thing to do, but it's risk assessment, and presumably they were both still trying to enjoy their evening. some dudes will not accept 'no' unless there is another male involved.
"He finally apologized, to me, not her, and shook my hand." this wasn't an, "I won the girl," this was, "This random dude really doesn't get it, and is a scumbag."
in my head, my exact, immediate response to that post was, "royce, you're a weird guy, but you're trying to be a good one."
i feel real weird interpreting someone's post like this, but i feel like royce in particular gets piled on at times simply because his ways of expressing himself are kinda convoluted and odd with sometimes inflammatory language
+25
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PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
Every part of that tweet is eihter projection or factually inaccurate or both.
The average unemployment rate was lower under Democrats, 5.64 percent, compared with 6.01 percent under Republican presidents, though the authors called that difference “small and not statistically significant.”
However, they said, there is “a very large and statistically significant difference in the change in the unemployment rate, computed as the average unemployment rate in the final year of the term minus the average value in the final year of the previous term. During Democratic presidential terms, the unemployment rate fell by 0.8 percentage points, on average, while it rose by 1.1 percentage points, on average, during Republican terms — yielding a large D-R gap of -1.9 percentage points.”
"He finally apologized, to me, not her, and shook my hand." this wasn't an, "I won the girl," this was, "This random dude really doesn't get it, and is a scumbag."
Yeah, that's exactly the point. He didn't register that asking a woman 5 times and being told no was a bad thing.
I mean, there's a lot I'm leaving about this woman whose maturity was...was...I'm certain everyone in this thread has done some questionable things at 21. But if she tells a man no, he should listen.
As far as women's in the election thread, hasn't this entire election season been a massive referendum on women's bodies?
This primary is exhausting and even a political junkie like myself, that eats up these stupid horse races, has grown bored and fatigued. I didn't even bother with the debate last week.
The fact that this likely won't be wrapped up until the summer is just...ugh. I mean, Democrats may tie it up earlier if Sanders losing this recent momentum he's gained, but on the other hand he seems content to take it all the way to the convention so I dunno.
This primary is exhausting and even a political junkie like myself, that eats up these stupid horse races, has grown bored and fatigued. I didn't even bother with the debate last week.
The fact that this likely won't be wrapped up until the summer is just...ugh. I mean, Democrats may tie it up earlier if Sanders losing this recent momentum he's gained, but on the other hand he seems content to take it all the way to the convention so I dunno.
And still half a year for the actual election. Hahaha.....ugh
"He finally apologized, to me, not her, and shook my hand." this wasn't an, "I won the girl," this was, "This random dude really doesn't get it, and is a scumbag."
Yeah, that's exactly the point. He didn't register that asking a woman 5 times and being told no was a bad thing.
I mean, there's a lot I'm leaving about this woman whose maturity was...was...I'm certain everyone in this thread has done some questionable things at 21. But if she tells a man no, he should listen.
As far as women's in the election thread, hasn't this entire election season been a massive referendum on women's bodies?
No.
No I didn't.
Hence my outrage at the whole scenario.
Like the worst thing I did was skip college/university classes to play Counterstrike or TF2. Which wound up minimally affecting my grade.
One of the best expressions of this from a woman's PoV is a female comedian who I can't recall the name of. She talked about being in a situation where a guy approaches her at night and thinking "I guess this is it, this is my rape."
It's a very funny and heartbreaking bit because as soon as I heard it (as a man) I could understand. She put into a joke this idea that it's just a matter of when for women. They assume it will happen sooner or later and are usually right.
I was in this situation a few weeks ago, I mentioned it here somewhere, broad daylight four drunk guys refusing to let me get by could have easily pulled me into a side street and I thought the same thing.
Last night I walked home at night with my keys ready, phone poised on an emergency call and checking behind me every 100 meters. I had a realisation of this is what I have to do every single time.
Liiya on
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited April 2016
It's habit for me to call Blake if I'm walking home from the train station alone late at night, even if I can't see anyone around and we have nothing to talk about. Being on the phone is my go-to deterrent. If I can't use that, I'll either fake it or have my hands clutching my keys, and I'll be constantly looking around.
These things are just automatic to me and these days I live a 5 minute walk from the station. And I have a husband who is supportive of this plan. Not everyone is so lucky.
It's terrible that one of the few deterrents is another man.
I've known women at work stay an hour past their going home time to leave with me because it was dark and they didn't want to walk alone. And that's pretty heartbreaking, really.
"Sorry bro, I didn't realise she was with her owner"
+21
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
It's a valid observation that a woman's perceived relationship with another man (aka ownership, "dibs") is often one of the few things that asshole men will "respect" (extremely generous use of the word).
However, in the context of that point, I'm having a hard time figuring out how it's important to make sure we all know that this particular women you were on a date with was not up to your usual standards of attractiveness, or whether or not she was as coal-black and thick-muscled as a field-hand (apologies to Mallory Archer).
It's habit for me to call Blake if I'm walking home from the train station alone late at night, even if I can't see anyone around and we have nothing to talk about. Being on the phone is my go-to deterrent. If I can't use that, I'll either fake it or have my hands clutching my keys, and I'll be constantly looking around.
These things are just automatic to me and these days I live a 5 minute walk from the station. And I have a husband who is supportive of this plan. Not everyone is so lucky.
When I lived downtown, I carried my multitool in my pocket and just kind of clutched that when I got particularly nervous at night. It's particularly hefty, and my Dad and I agreed that it could be particularly helpful to add some weight behind a punch. It basically became a ritual of holding that in one hand and my phone in the other.
There was an occasion I was particularly worried since an assault had taken place a few blocks from my apartment earlier in the week, and I hid out in a Tim Hortons when a guy followed me asking questions and I got sketched the hell out.
I also have this particular discomfort I never really realized was a thing until Saturday night, when I was getting into an Uber alone. I seem to just kind of... have this small moment of dread as I get into the car, because of the uncertainty of whether or not this guy is going to be dangerous. I usually establish with at least one person as I leave the party/house/whatever that I'm going to message as I leave and arrive at my destination as a precaution.
When I am walking home there are quite a few women jogging or walking dogs
I do find it sad they go for a phone or knife or mace or whatever when they see me
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
as a Nice Midwestern Small-Town Boy i also do this
it's just a nice thing to do, y'all
but FUCK people who don't say thank you
like, it's not a huge deal, obviously
but fuck those people anyway
anyway, this primary. i actually feel kind of sorry for the republican voters i know? like, yeah, chickens coming home to roost, sow the wind reap the whirlwind, etc. etc., but it still seems like most republican voters (anecdotally, amongst the people i know) really are being forced to chose between being stabbed in the heart or shot in the face. nobody likes ted cruz and donald trump is an idiot and a bully, in my mom's words, and kasich is kind of a dick too but he's easily the best of the three and he STILL has nothing even approaching a decent shot. it's kinda shitty!
as a Nice Midwestern Small-Town Boy i also do this
it's just a nice thing to do, y'all
but FUCK people who don't say thank you
like, it's not a huge deal, obviously
but fuck those people anyway
anyway, this primary. i actually feel kind of sorry for the republican voters i know? like, yeah, chickens coming home to roost, sow the wind reap the whirlwind, etc. etc., but it still seems like most republican voters (anecdotally, amongst the people i know) really are being forced to chose between being stabbed in the heart or shot in the face. nobody likes ted cruz and donald trump is an idiot and a bully, in my mom's words, and kasich is kind of a dick too but he's easily the best of the three and he STILL has nothing even approaching a decent shot. it's kinda shitty!
of the dozens of republican voters I know, 1 will vote democrat, 2 will stay at home, and 20+ will still vote republican (despite admitting their candidate crop is god awful) because "fuck the other side, that's why!"
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
I'm not sure if I'm more bothered by the fact that he says this or that it's a premise for tax cuts.
--
It would be nice if men weren't routinely awful toward women.
I wouldn't have to deal with the recursive cycle that happens when I accidentally look at a woman at the same time she looks at me and then get an awkward look on my face because I think she thinks I'm thinking something awful and then she does or doesn't get an awkward look on her face but I can't tell because my perception is biased by an anxiety disorder
But then this is also why I have prescriptions
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
(not trying to say there is a reason they would need that though in your case!)
I am hulking and walking
They are tiny women compared to me so if you were on the same path it's hard not to notice where a hand goes for a pocket and hovers
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
Myself, it just makes me feel thankful I don't have to open the door.
Well there is also this to consider
I'd like to think to the right is a zone called the "Probably an employee" zone
No I don't.
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited April 2016
(I try to always open the door because I forget some social customs on entering a room, and by going in second I can mimic someone elses. I am a social plagarist.)
It also depends on where you are. The social pressure on holding the door open can be intense. Like, if someone is seventy feet away, regardless of gender, you kind of are supposed to hold the door open anyway, but then the other person is supposed to say "I have it, thanks."
Oddly this was more common when I moved to new england than when I was in the south; but up here people don't do that thing where they run to the door so that they are in the courtesy zone shown above before the first person gets to the door.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
When they dropped me off at uni in the US, my parents insisted that they buy me a huge mag light flashlight, the type that's heavy as hell and can probably smash a watermelon into pieces if you swing it with intent.
My mum said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some light. My dad said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some heavy.
He chuckled and then said "no seriously use this as a weapon if you ever feel unsafe."
Ignoring that that's pretty bad safety advice, it's interesting to reflect on why he was so insistent at the time.
I mean he was leaving his daughter on an American university campus and about to fly back home to the other side of the world. If me having a gigantic flashlight made him feel okay then I was all right with it.
I was surprised some years ago to learn that there are some men that use holding the door open for a woman as an excuse to try and pick them up or do the male gaze thing. It ruined it for me for some time afterward and I to this day make a point of not bothering the person I am holding the door for, regardless of gender, unless I know them personally.
Myself, it just makes me feel thankful I don't have to open the door.
Well there is also this to consider
I'd like to think to the right is a zone called the "Probably an employee" zone
But why am I holding the door open longer for employees
I think he is assuming that the door holder is an employee regardless of whether the person whom the door is being opened for (here forward referred to as an Openee) another employee, a customer or someone who otherwise has business in the area serviced by the portal to which the door is attached.
When they dropped me off at uni in the US, my parents insisted that they buy me a huge mag light flashlight, the type that's heavy as hell and can probably smash a watermelon into pieces if you swing it with intent.
My mum said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some light. My dad said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some heavy.
He chuckled and then said "no seriously use this as a weapon if you ever feel unsafe."
Ignoring that that's pretty bad safety advice, it's interesting to reflect on why he was so insistent at the time.
I mean he was leaving his daughter on an American university campus and about to fly back home to the other side of the world. If me having a gigantic flashlight made him feel okay then I was all right with it.
Plus, free flashlight.
it only works if you scream "FEEL THE LIGHT OF JUSTICE" when equipped and used on a target
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
I took the perspective of the person heading towards the door because there shouldn't be an awkward zone for the person holding the door. Just stop holding it if you feel awkward.
Posts
Whereas my bloodline is DTF.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/17/politics/north-korea-donald-trump/
royce has a slightly different approach to the world, but i think i get the gist of his post. sexism goes across cultures, but there are dynamics at play and the language is tied into that. i don't know royce beyond the forums, but i have known men who say the same kind of shit that is ruffling people's feathers, and it's just... shit, all i can come up with right now is.. Coyote. sometimes our words tangle and we mean other things.
it was basically a blind date, they're not gonna know each other that well, so that's his basis for describing her. describing others of your heritage using words that make people uncomfortable, that's a thing. but.
this dude was clearly not taking 'no' from royce's date. it sucks that this rando didn't respect her, but that shit happens all the time. see my most recent post-club posts for a rant in that vein. if she had bitched royce out for overstepping his role in playing defender, that would be one thing, but he basically describes his mindset as being her backup, especially if this guy tried anything further. and keeping an eye on this other woman, because the bouncers couldn't be trusted to step in. he and his date used physical signifiers of her being 'unavailable', because if royce had actually called these dudes on it, he and his date possibly would've been embroiled in a fight, because there are meatheads who want to 'prove their manhood'. it may have been the satisfying, righteous thing to do, but it's risk assessment, and presumably they were both still trying to enjoy their evening. some dudes will not accept 'no' unless there is another male involved.
"He finally apologized, to me, not her, and shook my hand." this wasn't an, "I won the girl," this was, "This random dude really doesn't get it, and is a scumbag."
in my head, my exact, immediate response to that post was, "royce, you're a weird guy, but you're trying to be a good one."
i feel real weird interpreting someone's post like this, but i feel like royce in particular gets piled on at times simply because his ways of expressing himself are kinda convoluted and odd with sometimes inflammatory language
Yeah, that's exactly the point. He didn't register that asking a woman 5 times and being told no was a bad thing.
I mean, there's a lot I'm leaving about this woman whose maturity was...was...I'm certain everyone in this thread has done some questionable things at 21. But if she tells a man no, he should listen.
As far as women's in the election thread, hasn't this entire election season been a massive referendum on women's bodies?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
The fact that this likely won't be wrapped up until the summer is just...ugh. I mean, Democrats may tie it up earlier if Sanders losing this recent momentum he's gained, but on the other hand he seems content to take it all the way to the convention so I dunno.
And still half a year for the actual election. Hahaha.....ugh
No.
No I didn't.
Hence my outrage at the whole scenario.
Like the worst thing I did was skip college/university classes to play Counterstrike or TF2. Which wound up minimally affecting my grade.
So the whole thing seems wrong to me.
I was in this situation a few weeks ago, I mentioned it here somewhere, broad daylight four drunk guys refusing to let me get by could have easily pulled me into a side street and I thought the same thing.
Last night I walked home at night with my keys ready, phone poised on an emergency call and checking behind me every 100 meters. I had a realisation of this is what I have to do every single time.
These things are just automatic to me and these days I live a 5 minute walk from the station. And I have a husband who is supportive of this plan. Not everyone is so lucky.
Night in the Woods isn't out yet and I haven't got to play it.
I've known women at work stay an hour past their going home time to leave with me because it was dark and they didn't want to walk alone. And that's pretty heartbreaking, really.
However, in the context of that point, I'm having a hard time figuring out how it's important to make sure we all know that this particular women you were on a date with was not up to your usual standards of attractiveness, or whether or not she was as coal-black and thick-muscled as a field-hand (apologies to Mallory Archer).
When I lived downtown, I carried my multitool in my pocket and just kind of clutched that when I got particularly nervous at night. It's particularly hefty, and my Dad and I agreed that it could be particularly helpful to add some weight behind a punch. It basically became a ritual of holding that in one hand and my phone in the other.
There was an occasion I was particularly worried since an assault had taken place a few blocks from my apartment earlier in the week, and I hid out in a Tim Hortons when a guy followed me asking questions and I got sketched the hell out.
I also have this particular discomfort I never really realized was a thing until Saturday night, when I was getting into an Uber alone. I seem to just kind of... have this small moment of dread as I get into the car, because of the uncertainty of whether or not this guy is going to be dangerous. I usually establish with at least one person as I leave the party/house/whatever that I'm going to message as I leave and arrive at my destination as a precaution.
3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
I do find it sad they go for a phone or knife or mace or whatever when they see me
because that may be the reason!
(not trying to say there is a reason they would need that though in your case!)
Me too, but I will at most smile politely and respond, "No problem" if they thank me.
as a Nice Midwestern Small-Town Boy i also do this
it's just a nice thing to do, y'all
but FUCK people who don't say thank you
like, it's not a huge deal, obviously
but fuck those people anyway
anyway, this primary. i actually feel kind of sorry for the republican voters i know? like, yeah, chickens coming home to roost, sow the wind reap the whirlwind, etc. etc., but it still seems like most republican voters (anecdotally, amongst the people i know) really are being forced to chose between being stabbed in the heart or shot in the face. nobody likes ted cruz and donald trump is an idiot and a bully, in my mom's words, and kasich is kind of a dick too but he's easily the best of the three and he STILL has nothing even approaching a decent shot. it's kinda shitty!
of the dozens of republican voters I know, 1 will vote democrat, 2 will stay at home, and 20+ will still vote republican (despite admitting their candidate crop is god awful) because "fuck the other side, that's why!"
There's a lot of weird psychology in door opening. Apparently, it makes a lot of men feel emasculated.
Myself, it just makes me feel thankful I don't have to open the door.
I'm not sure if I'm more bothered by the fact that he says this or that it's a premise for tax cuts.
--
It would be nice if men weren't routinely awful toward women.
I wouldn't have to deal with the recursive cycle that happens when I accidentally look at a woman at the same time she looks at me and then get an awkward look on my face because I think she thinks I'm thinking something awful and then she does or doesn't get an awkward look on her face but I can't tell because my perception is biased by an anxiety disorder
But then this is also why I have prescriptions
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Well there is also this to consider
I am hulking and walking
They are tiny women compared to me so if you were on the same path it's hard not to notice where a hand goes for a pocket and hovers
The Canadian model is far to the right of the frame
I'd like to think to the right is a zone called the "Probably an employee" zone
It also depends on where you are. The social pressure on holding the door open can be intense. Like, if someone is seventy feet away, regardless of gender, you kind of are supposed to hold the door open anyway, but then the other person is supposed to say "I have it, thanks."
Oddly this was more common when I moved to new england than when I was in the south; but up here people don't do that thing where they run to the door so that they are in the courtesy zone shown above before the first person gets to the door.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
But why am I holding the door open longer for employees
My mum said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some light. My dad said it was in case I was ever walking home alone in the dark and needed some heavy.
He chuckled and then said "no seriously use this as a weapon if you ever feel unsafe."
Ignoring that that's pretty bad safety advice, it's interesting to reflect on why he was so insistent at the time.
I mean he was leaving his daughter on an American university campus and about to fly back home to the other side of the world. If me having a gigantic flashlight made him feel okay then I was all right with it.
Plus, free flashlight.
I think he is assuming that the door holder is an employee regardless of whether the person whom the door is being opened for (here forward referred to as an Openee) another employee, a customer or someone who otherwise has business in the area serviced by the portal to which the door is attached.
it only works if you scream "FEEL THE LIGHT OF JUSTICE" when equipped and used on a target
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.