Oh, I know it is still in there. I am simply being a grump about having to spend extra actions to do the same thing I used to be able to do with the press of single button. Fully agree on bullet dodge, speed, etc being removed from the mechanic.
So far I have not seen forward building be effective at all. Seems like a gamble that always ends up biting the player that tries it. Not sure what scouting has to do with retreating/reinforcements. There is a really solid game here,
sorry for being rude. I am just overly grumpy about the focus on APM gymnastics and should probably bow out proper. Hard not see focusing on APM as a design decision as anything but a step backwards for the entire genre.
I found with Eldar and the ability to move buildings forward building is a must. You need those webways too to really get the speed and stealth.
With Orks though it is much better to have stuff close as you throw shit at people. I lose lots of boyz as Orkz but I can replace them quickly. Plus getting Waaaaagh! towers up close means more Waaaaagh! time.
Space marines with drops seems the least needing the forward bases.
Still compared to SC2 this is not an apm fest. Feels more like DoW1 than DoW2. And DoW2 was lower numbers but damn the micro was the entire game.
There have been too many times now where I couldn't even figure out which units were mine based on the colors used for outlines and health bars. I usually just do a high contrast paint job but even that doesn't work in this game.
I'd like to propose that red and green never be used for team colors again. It's fucking ridiculous.
So last night I had a 3v3 that went quite well. I kept making flanking attacks on my own, sending units on essentially suicide missions into their north gen and then turret until I was able to take them out. Late in the game I kept building up pred annihilators, assault marines, and a triple dread drop along with knight Solaria. A major battle erupted on the north side, I sent Solaria with my team's army and dropped an orbital beam shot on the opposing force while sending the rest of my forces streaming directly at their power core on my own. I ment minimal resistance there, dropped in all 3 dreadnaughts and proceeded to obliterate it, GG.
Now that did feel kind of cool, I will admit. However I kept thinking the whole time "I can't believe this is working, this would never be an option in a VP match because you would have to actually hold the ground, not just suicide all your units while destroying a thing...". I really feel that the VP mode from DoW2 / CoH 1&2 has WAY more depth to it than this power core mode for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that you have to defeat their army to win. When we won that, there were units swarming around my forces that would have beaten me handily in a VP match.
That said I had fun so I remain confused atm. It kind of feels like "new toy syndrome" to me abit, and that the shininess will wear off quickly. Maybe I'm expecting too much because I've played so many RTS games?
DarkMecha on
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
I'm hoping power core is just 1 of a few different MP game types. It's interesting but I don't feel like it promotes urgency like VP does, as mentioned by @DarkMecha.
I also feel like people rely on the shields and turrets a bit much, knowing that they at least have these required things that have to be destroyed to slow down the enemy a bit, providing a small deterrent. I've been in battles where people successfully entrenched around their turrets and power core for 10+ minutes, which isn't that fun.
Yeah this game with a few tweaks and a VP game mode would be alot more appealing to me than it currently is.
As for a few tweaks, what about adding in a scattering of smaller cover zones (enough room for 1 squad)? Or some of the non-directional buff / debuff based cover system from DoW1? The maps need more stuff like that going on to drive tactical decision making IMO. That and lowering the damage on some things would be nice, seems like units are really squishy in general.
DarkMecha on
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
There have been too many times now where I couldn't even figure out which units were mine based on the colors used for outlines and health bars. I usually just do a high contrast paint job but even that doesn't work in this game.
I'd like to propose that red and green never be used for team colors again. It's fucking ridiculous.
Relic games have been getting steadily less readable since the gold standard of Company of Heroes. What's even more impressive is that Company of Heroes had rather minimal team stuff in the unit design itself. It was all very subtle, and yet it worked great. DoW II was messier but still not awful, especially given the different paint schemes, etc. CoH 2 was a blurry mess and DoW 3 is pretty inscrutable for a lot of folks, as far as I can tell.
^
I played a couple games and gave up. This game is just a visual soup, and I cannot parse what is happening at all. Once the first elites show up, the fights just devolve into giant coloured AOE bubbles overlaid on top of a perceptual firework explosion. The only way to tell where units are is the floating icons, but those are equally illegible (not to mention that some of the giant elite icons also show up on the minimap, adding to the moving clutter)
This is not even mentioning the general UI mess. When a single unit portrait has like, 3 additional icons attached to it, something is off.
I feel like UI presentation has always been one of Relic's weak spots, even CoH1 had some pretty terrible icons (though there were less units and abilities popping off). Relic's always sided with super detailed and coloured icons, over instantly readable ones. And then because they need things to be readable, they overlay MORE icons over top of them.
There have been too many times now where I couldn't even figure out which units were mine based on the colors used for outlines and health bars. I usually just do a high contrast paint job but even that doesn't work in this game.
I'd like to propose that red and green never be used for team colors again. It's fucking ridiculous.
Relic games have been getting steadily less readable since the gold standard of Company of Heroes. What's even more impressive is that Company of Heroes had rather minimal team stuff in the unit design itself. It was all very subtle, and yet it worked great. DoW II was messier but still not awful, especially given the different paint schemes, etc. CoH 2 was a blurry mess and DoW 3 is pretty inscrutable for a lot of folks, as far as I can tell.
I revel in chaos (not Chaos.) I think I'll pick this up.
I played a couple more games. Tried the Eldar in a 3v3, really not a fan of them for some reason. I really liked microing falcon grav tanks in DoW2 but they are a mess to micro in this, flipping about and whatnot. The Vipers are fun to micro, much like the SM Skimmers atleast. The banshees in this really feel lacking compared to DoW2 for some reason. I think it's the scream, I don't remember ever hearing it, so if it's there it's just not cool enough. You always knew when you were fighting banshees in DoW2, lol.
Played a 2v2 as SM, won it with a flank again. People just don't expect that in the beta I guess. For whatever reason it just doesn't feel like a satisfying victory. I don't feel like I beat his army, just that I caught him out of position and nailed a building in his base. Yay I guess?
I've decided not to pick it up, atleast not yet. This power core mode just isn't working for me and while the gameplay is fun enough something just feels off overall. Disappointing because this was the #1 PC game I was excited for this year. Nothing else on my radar now really...
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
Did some games with @cptrugged today. As with most multiplayer, it is more fun with friends. I tried Eldar a few times today. I never liked the Eldar in previous games and it continues. I basically only was semi-successful with ranger spam. So many rangers. I could shoot down a squad to 0 almost in one round of fire. It was silly.
I like Orks a ton. I like the feel of the boyz. I like the scrap mechanic. I like the Waaaagh! towers and how using them smartly can win a fight before it starts. I still haven't gotten a looted tank into a fight yet.
I am also enjoying SM. I wish they were Chaos but drop pods have always been one of my favorite things in 40k. I was always jealous of SM armies and their drop pods. Chaos seems to ignore their existence and it always made me sad. But the pods really change the feel of the game. There are tons of fights I win with a good drop pod.
I am still on wait and see a bit but I think Rugged chose after tonight to grab it, maybe even a pre-order. He can write he thoughts up though.
Also I am not seeing the colored mess argument myself. I haven't found it much busier than a huge battle in DoW2. Maybe my brain just adjusts quickly.
It's got the dow1 vibe going on. While I miss the cover and setting up my guys I don't mind this style either.
As for how the cosmetic stuff is going to be rolled out I'm pleasantly excited for themed looks to armies. If the end up going that way.
I hear you on the difficulty in picking your own guys out from team mates at times.
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
I'm not sure how hard this would be, but perhaps in the match screen if someone has already picked a color template, force someone to change. Ie if the host is Ultramarines and someone joins up with Ultramarines, set them back to the default or something allowing them to pick a different color. In the heat of battle, the little arrows are not much help picking out your teammates troops vs the enemy if they are the same color.
While my opinion of the game has softened over the weekend (probably due to more people learning the mechanics), I'll still probably wait for a bit and look for a sale before buying. I really miss the slower battles / higher HP units and the cover mechanics. The reason I like DoW over StarCraft is that SC felt sterile. Even after hundreds of hours of DoW 2, I still love watching an Avatar of Khaine stab units with his sword. Someone mentioned above banshee's screams not showing up. Combine sync-kills with the high HP of units and DoW 2 battles never failed to get me smiling. I understand why they went this direction, sync kills are hard to have in an e-sports game.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The HUD shows my units as blue, and ally units as yellow. Is that not the same for you guys?
What surprises me on team colouring is that they made all enemy units show as red. The did the same in CoH2 and it was one of the first things I turned off. Being able to quickly determine how many players are attacking and who you've done damage to is pretty critical in team games.
Did some games with -cptrugged today. As with most multiplayer, it is more fun with friends. I tried Eldar a few times today. I never liked the Eldar in previous games and it continues. I basically only was semi-successful with ranger spam. So many rangers. I could shoot down a squad to 0 almost in one round of fire. It was silly.
I like Orks a ton. I like the feel of the boyz. I like the scrap mechanic. I like the Waaaagh! towers and how using them smartly can win a fight before it starts. I still haven't gotten a looted tank into a fight yet.
I am also enjoying SM. I wish they were Chaos but drop pods have always been one of my favorite things in 40k. I was always jealous of SM armies and their drop pods. Chaos seems to ignore their existence and it always made me sad. But the pods really change the feel of the game. There are tons of fights I win with a good drop pod.
I am still on wait and see a bit but I think Rugged chose after tonight to grab it, maybe even a pre-order. He can write he thoughts up though.
Also I am not seeing the colored mess argument myself. I haven't found it much busier than a huge battle in DoW2. Maybe my brain just adjusts quickly.
I hated hated hated the Company of Heroes style cover mechanics in 2. I couldn't stand playing multi in that game. The campaign, of course, was amazing. But I just didn't like the feel of the combat and how it played out outside of the campaign.
DoW 3 thought. Yeah, this is my jam. I still haven't tried the Eldar yet, but I absolutely love the Orks. I love the scrap mechanic and WAAGH. They feel really good to play right now. Space Marines felt very solid, but I didn't feel like I was doing many interesting things with them. Everything felt so vanilla. Still fun though. Love the way the elite units look and the animations are really great.
I managed to get time in for 1 match in the beta. Did a 2v2 where the opposing team had a player drop in the loading screen so we won rather quickly. I can definitely see where people have issues with the icons for the squads when the light show turns on in a fight. I didn't even really get to experiment with upgrading anything and the tutorials talked nothing about how those work so I only ever got to use shoota-boyz, regular melee boyz and 1 truck before the match ended. I would have liked to see more.
I did have fun though. My overall impression is that everyone moves kinda slow. It's probably me, but it sure seemed like it took a long time for my reinforcement boyz to get to the enemy's side of the map. Plus the tutorial didn't cover anything except SM, so I didn't get much of a chance to discover how the different elite abilities and choices affect your strategy. This is all something that will come out wiht playing single player and 1vCPU games, but I wanted to get some more action in and didnt' get a chance unfortunately.
I did like it though. I am ready for it to unlock so I can rokk da boyz. I do like you can choose your heroes though. I'm not partial to some heroes (Gabriel Angelos) so I like being able to pick ones I do want.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Here's a 3v3 game including a lot of the tips I've picked up from playing this weekend. I go over the escalation phases, forward bases, armour/damage types, scout advantages, and generally try and use all my abilities. You'll probably see I am not some Korean SCII APM god, but DoW III still has the nice focus on only emphasising APM in the actual engagements and not on meaningless background tasks, which is what I can get by with. There's a few mistakes on my part, especially with my poor Scouts, and forgetting that ability cooldowns can be shorter than a single firefight (several missed opportunities for Vortex Grenades ), but overall I'm pretty happy with it.
Even though it's a little one-sided, I think our opponents could've made a comeback (though I got the impression one player gave up), because there's at least one point where they had good elite units we had no good counters to, but they sent them in drip-by-drip instead of as a big force, and we managed to muddle through.
Bethryn on
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
I get the feeling that elites being up or down is a lot more of a power swing than we were taking advantage of when I played last night. Kind of like when summoner spells are down in LoL. It's a good time to try and make plays.
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
Did some games with -cptrugged today. As with most multiplayer, it is more fun with friends. I tried Eldar a few times today. I never liked the Eldar in previous games and it continues. I basically only was semi-successful with ranger spam. So many rangers. I could shoot down a squad to 0 almost in one round of fire. It was silly.
I like Orks a ton. I like the feel of the boyz. I like the scrap mechanic. I like the Waaaagh! towers and how using them smartly can win a fight before it starts. I still haven't gotten a looted tank into a fight yet.
I am also enjoying SM. I wish they were Chaos but drop pods have always been one of my favorite things in 40k. I was always jealous of SM armies and their drop pods. Chaos seems to ignore their existence and it always made me sad. But the pods really change the feel of the game. There are tons of fights I win with a good drop pod.
I am still on wait and see a bit but I think Rugged chose after tonight to grab it, maybe even a pre-order. He can write he thoughts up though.
Also I am not seeing the colored mess argument myself. I haven't found it much busier than a huge battle in DoW2. Maybe my brain just adjusts quickly.
I hated hated hated the Company of Heroes style cover mechanics in 2. I couldn't stand playing multi in that game. The campaign, of course, was amazing. But I just didn't like the feel of the combat and how it played out outside of the campaign.
DoW 3 thought. Yeah, this is my jam. I still haven't tried the Eldar yet, but I absolutely love the Orks. I love the scrap mechanic and WAAGH. They feel really good to play right now. Space Marines felt very solid, but I didn't feel like I was doing many interesting things with them. Everything felt so vanilla. Still fun though. Love the way the elite units look and the animations are really great.
Pre-order made. I'm definitely in for this one.
I hated it because I like CoH2's more tactical mechanics so much more than this total annihilation approach. It seems like the game is going to be fairly polarizing. I'm curious if they find an untapped RTS market for this game or if the RTS market is such in 2017 that they are only going to attract existing fans of DOW 1 or 2. I think the game's commercial reception at release is going to be instructive for RTS developers.
Are there going to be more elites in the full version?
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
Are there going to be more elites in the full version?
On the Relic stream they showed them off that weren't known prior.
I can't remember them all, but:
Imperial Knight with chainsword
Venerable Dreadnought
Chaplain
Terminators
Warp spiders
Oh awesome so there's going to be some choices. I want some grey knights ^_^
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
I messed around with some DoW 1 during my downtime from multi (because the Dark Crusade campaign is awesome), and they are definitely pretty similar in a good way. DoW 1 is still playable, but playing it in the modern era makes it obvious that its scale was a bit too big for its interface. Having a big army in 1 is sort of a pain, because the highest zoom level is too low to be able to select them without having to drag select while also moving the screen. The only thing "missing" is the kill animations, but they were a balance nightmare and despite looking really cool are probably better off gone.
So yeah, I'm pretty happy with 3. This is essentially what I was hoping 2 would be -- same huge epic battles as 1, but with a ton of quality of life improvements. The release of such a game has obviously become more complicated in the interim, as all of this discussion confirms pretty well that 1 and 2 were very different games that didn't necessarily appeal to the same people. The current multiplayer mode in 3 would probably be better off as a victory point mode, but if they can compensate by adding a way to team surrender without penalty it wont be too bad.
And I hope so hard that 3 eventually adds in a Dark Crusade style single player campaign once they have a few new races in. You know everyone wants it!
I've been reading and listening to criticisms of DOW3, and been really fascinated by them.
We might need a new generation of kids before we get a RTS renaissance. As it is, people our age can't seem to pick up a new RTS game without tons of baggage from all the other games we've played during our lifetime.
Company of Heroes and Dawn of War 2 had cover. Cover was fun. So, this game ought to have cover.
Those games had retreating. Retreating was useful when my units got in trouble. It's unpleasant to not have that option in this game, when I was used to it from the others. So, this game ought to have retreating.
And so on and so forth.
And at the same time, I'm hearing criticisms that the game isn't doing enough that's different. It's just features from other stale genres blended into a new form. (Aside: Isn't that how most new things get made? Ingredients that you've seen before tend to taste different when combined in a way that you haven't seen before.)
I feel like many of my friends aren't meeting the game where it is. They aren't letting themselves enjoy it for what it is. They have the game in their head that they wish they were playing, and compare the actual game to that imaginary thing.
Which is a shame because I think I'd really like to get into team games for this one.
Oh I've had fun with it, the game play appears to be fun in a different way than dow2 was.
I feel like it's a good balance of games in terms of what it brings to the table.
Big battles and heros that are for collecting loot.
I saw a kid get handed a JB poster by who I presume was his parents outside my store today....he tore it in half infront of his horrified parents.....There's hope for our youth yet!
Yeah I didn't hate DoW3 by any means. I will likely buy it at some point on a sale. Even if they never add a VP mode I would still enjoy playing it, but not to the degree that I enjoyed CoH 1 and DoW 2. I guess I'm just old.
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
Yeah I don't think anyone has mentioned they outright hate it. I think most people posting complaints here are lamenting the fact that to help streamline and balance the game for competitive multiplayer they removed a lot of the personality and charm of the last 2 DoW games.
"For me, the kill animations were an occasional delight, almost like mini-cutscenes that cropped up mid-battle. Whenever I'd spot one amid the chaos I'd zoom in for a closer look and inevitably end up grinning from ear to ear. That's my Dreadnought there, picking up an eldar and crushing its bones to dust. That's my Terminator there, smashing an ork in the face with its shield. The kill animations helped bring what would otherwise be nondescript units to life. All of a sudden they had character, a personality."
I much of my foggy confusion while playing had to do with being entirely unsure as to which past conventions from which genre were in play, when, and why.
It wasn't just mechanics, but how the mechanics present were intended to be leveraged.
Interesting, though. Looking back I saw lots of cool stuff that I couldn't appreciate as well as I might with a clearer understanding.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Yeah I don't think anyone has mentioned they outright hate it. I think most people posting complaints here are lamenting the fact that to help streamline and balance the game for competitive multiplayer they removed a lot of the personality and charm of the last 2 DoW games.
"For me, the kill animations were an occasional delight, almost like mini-cutscenes that cropped up mid-battle. Whenever I'd spot one amid the chaos I'd zoom in for a closer look and inevitably end up grinning from ear to ear. That's my Dreadnought there, picking up an eldar and crushing its bones to dust. That's my Terminator there, smashing an ork in the face with its shield. The kill animations helped bring what would otherwise be nondescript units to life. All of a sudden they had character, a personality."
I get that sync kills are not great for multiplayer balance. Makes sense, they've been something of an issue for a while.
Yeah I don't think anyone has mentioned they outright hate it. I think most people posting complaints here are lamenting the fact that to help streamline and balance the game for competitive multiplayer they removed a lot of the personality and charm of the last 2 DoW games.
"For me, the kill animations were an occasional delight, almost like mini-cutscenes that cropped up mid-battle. Whenever I'd spot one amid the chaos I'd zoom in for a closer look and inevitably end up grinning from ear to ear. That's my Dreadnought there, picking up an eldar and crushing its bones to dust. That's my Terminator there, smashing an ork in the face with its shield. The kill animations helped bring what would otherwise be nondescript units to life. All of a sudden they had character, a personality."
I really agree with this. Company of Heroes had this as well, and that kind of stuff really draws me in along with the amazing real time tactical gameplay, which is why DoW2 is my favorite.
That said have to say I really liked the Orks in DoW3. Making robots out of garbage is super Orky, as is rock music blasting from rickety WAAAGH! towers. Nailed it. I just wish the regular unit animations and voice overs had that kind of personality.
DarkMecha on
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
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Well...
So far I have not seen forward building be effective at all. Seems like a gamble that always ends up biting the player that tries it. Not sure what scouting has to do with retreating/reinforcements. There is a really solid game here,
sorry for being rude. I am just overly grumpy about the focus on APM gymnastics and should probably bow out proper. Hard not see focusing on APM as a design decision as anything but a step backwards for the entire genre.
With Orks though it is much better to have stuff close as you throw shit at people. I lose lots of boyz as Orkz but I can replace them quickly. Plus getting Waaaaagh! towers up close means more Waaaaagh! time.
Space marines with drops seems the least needing the forward bases.
Still compared to SC2 this is not an apm fest. Feels more like DoW1 than DoW2. And DoW2 was lower numbers but damn the micro was the entire game.
I'd like to propose that red and green never be used for team colors again. It's fucking ridiculous.
Well it doesn't look like Eldar, Ork, Tau, Necron, Tyranid, Dark Eldar, etc tech either.
Now that did feel kind of cool, I will admit. However I kept thinking the whole time "I can't believe this is working, this would never be an option in a VP match because you would have to actually hold the ground, not just suicide all your units while destroying a thing...". I really feel that the VP mode from DoW2 / CoH 1&2 has WAY more depth to it than this power core mode for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that you have to defeat their army to win. When we won that, there were units swarming around my forces that would have beaten me handily in a VP match.
That said I had fun so I remain confused atm. It kind of feels like "new toy syndrome" to me abit, and that the shininess will wear off quickly. Maybe I'm expecting too much because I've played so many RTS games?
I also feel like people rely on the shields and turrets a bit much, knowing that they at least have these required things that have to be destroyed to slow down the enemy a bit, providing a small deterrent. I've been in battles where people successfully entrenched around their turrets and power core for 10+ minutes, which isn't that fun.
As for a few tweaks, what about adding in a scattering of smaller cover zones (enough room for 1 squad)? Or some of the non-directional buff / debuff based cover system from DoW1? The maps need more stuff like that going on to drive tactical decision making IMO. That and lowering the damage on some things would be nice, seems like units are really squishy in general.
I played a couple games and gave up. This game is just a visual soup, and I cannot parse what is happening at all. Once the first elites show up, the fights just devolve into giant coloured AOE bubbles overlaid on top of a perceptual firework explosion. The only way to tell where units are is the floating icons, but those are equally illegible (not to mention that some of the giant elite icons also show up on the minimap, adding to the moving clutter)
This is not even mentioning the general UI mess. When a single unit portrait has like, 3 additional icons attached to it, something is off.
I feel like UI presentation has always been one of Relic's weak spots, even CoH1 had some pretty terrible icons (though there were less units and abilities popping off). Relic's always sided with super detailed and coloured icons, over instantly readable ones. And then because they need things to be readable, they overlay MORE icons over top of them.
I revel in chaos (not Chaos.) I think I'll pick this up.
Played a 2v2 as SM, won it with a flank again. People just don't expect that in the beta I guess. For whatever reason it just doesn't feel like a satisfying victory. I don't feel like I beat his army, just that I caught him out of position and nailed a building in his base. Yay I guess?
I've decided not to pick it up, atleast not yet. This power core mode just isn't working for me and while the gameplay is fun enough something just feels off overall. Disappointing because this was the #1 PC game I was excited for this year. Nothing else on my radar now really...
I like Orks a ton. I like the feel of the boyz. I like the scrap mechanic. I like the Waaaagh! towers and how using them smartly can win a fight before it starts. I still haven't gotten a looted tank into a fight yet.
I am also enjoying SM. I wish they were Chaos but drop pods have always been one of my favorite things in 40k. I was always jealous of SM armies and their drop pods. Chaos seems to ignore their existence and it always made me sad. But the pods really change the feel of the game. There are tons of fights I win with a good drop pod.
I am still on wait and see a bit but I think Rugged chose after tonight to grab it, maybe even a pre-order. He can write he thoughts up though.
Also I am not seeing the colored mess argument myself. I haven't found it much busier than a huge battle in DoW2. Maybe my brain just adjusts quickly.
Preordered a copy based on what i've played this weekend. First in a long while!
I'm really liking any elites that can jump away (read: Eldar). Makes it easy to disengage and heal up
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
As for how the cosmetic stuff is going to be rolled out I'm pleasantly excited for themed looks to armies. If the end up going that way.
I hear you on the difficulty in picking your own guys out from team mates at times.
Although I like the ability to customize your elite loadout
And the tech trees seem pretty simple, which I also like
While my opinion of the game has softened over the weekend (probably due to more people learning the mechanics), I'll still probably wait for a bit and look for a sale before buying. I really miss the slower battles / higher HP units and the cover mechanics. The reason I like DoW over StarCraft is that SC felt sterile. Even after hundreds of hours of DoW 2, I still love watching an Avatar of Khaine stab units with his sword. Someone mentioned above banshee's screams not showing up. Combine sync-kills with the high HP of units and DoW 2 battles never failed to get me smiling. I understand why they went this direction, sync kills are hard to have in an e-sports game.
Had a great time playing with @Mazzyx
I'm so glad this feels more like DoW 1.
I hated hated hated the Company of Heroes style cover mechanics in 2. I couldn't stand playing multi in that game. The campaign, of course, was amazing. But I just didn't like the feel of the combat and how it played out outside of the campaign.
DoW 3 thought. Yeah, this is my jam. I still haven't tried the Eldar yet, but I absolutely love the Orks. I love the scrap mechanic and WAAGH. They feel really good to play right now. Space Marines felt very solid, but I didn't feel like I was doing many interesting things with them. Everything felt so vanilla. Still fun though. Love the way the elite units look and the animations are really great.
Pre-order made. I'm definitely in for this one.
I did have fun though. My overall impression is that everyone moves kinda slow. It's probably me, but it sure seemed like it took a long time for my reinforcement boyz to get to the enemy's side of the map. Plus the tutorial didn't cover anything except SM, so I didn't get much of a chance to discover how the different elite abilities and choices affect your strategy. This is all something that will come out wiht playing single player and 1vCPU games, but I wanted to get some more action in and didnt' get a chance unfortunately.
I did like it though. I am ready for it to unlock so I can rokk da boyz. I do like you can choose your heroes though. I'm not partial to some heroes (Gabriel Angelos) so I like being able to pick ones I do want.
Here's a 3v3 game including a lot of the tips I've picked up from playing this weekend. I go over the escalation phases, forward bases, armour/damage types, scout advantages, and generally try and use all my abilities. You'll probably see I am not some Korean SCII APM god, but DoW III still has the nice focus on only emphasising APM in the actual engagements and not on meaningless background tasks, which is what I can get by with. There's a few mistakes on my part, especially with my poor Scouts, and forgetting that ability cooldowns can be shorter than a single firefight (several missed opportunities for Vortex Grenades
I hated it because I like CoH2's more tactical mechanics so much more than this total annihilation approach. It seems like the game is going to be fairly polarizing. I'm curious if they find an untapped RTS market for this game or if the RTS market is such in 2017 that they are only going to attract existing fans of DOW 1 or 2. I think the game's commercial reception at release is going to be instructive for RTS developers.
I can't remember them all, but:
Imperial Knight with chainsword
Venerable Dreadnought
Chaplain
Terminators
Warp spiders
Oh awesome so there's going to be some choices. I want some grey knights ^_^
So yeah, I'm pretty happy with 3. This is essentially what I was hoping 2 would be -- same huge epic battles as 1, but with a ton of quality of life improvements. The release of such a game has obviously become more complicated in the interim, as all of this discussion confirms pretty well that 1 and 2 were very different games that didn't necessarily appeal to the same people. The current multiplayer mode in 3 would probably be better off as a victory point mode, but if they can compensate by adding a way to team surrender without penalty it wont be too bad.
And I hope so hard that 3 eventually adds in a Dark Crusade style single player campaign once they have a few new races in. You know everyone wants it!
We might need a new generation of kids before we get a RTS renaissance. As it is, people our age can't seem to pick up a new RTS game without tons of baggage from all the other games we've played during our lifetime.
Company of Heroes and Dawn of War 2 had cover. Cover was fun. So, this game ought to have cover.
Those games had retreating. Retreating was useful when my units got in trouble. It's unpleasant to not have that option in this game, when I was used to it from the others. So, this game ought to have retreating.
And so on and so forth.
And at the same time, I'm hearing criticisms that the game isn't doing enough that's different. It's just features from other stale genres blended into a new form. (Aside: Isn't that how most new things get made? Ingredients that you've seen before tend to taste different when combined in a way that you haven't seen before.)
I feel like many of my friends aren't meeting the game where it is. They aren't letting themselves enjoy it for what it is. They have the game in their head that they wish they were playing, and compare the actual game to that imaginary thing.
Which is a shame because I think I'd really like to get into team games for this one.
I feel like it's a good balance of games in terms of what it brings to the table.
Big battles and heros that are for collecting loot.
I dunno, I've only really been in the lategame once and I probably could've built nearly anything to win
But the artillery did seem pretty good
"For me, the kill animations were an occasional delight, almost like mini-cutscenes that cropped up mid-battle. Whenever I'd spot one amid the chaos I'd zoom in for a closer look and inevitably end up grinning from ear to ear. That's my Dreadnought there, picking up an eldar and crushing its bones to dust. That's my Terminator there, smashing an ork in the face with its shield. The kill animations helped bring what would otherwise be nondescript units to life. All of a sudden they had character, a personality."
It wasn't just mechanics, but how the mechanics present were intended to be leveraged.
Interesting, though. Looking back I saw lots of cool stuff that I couldn't appreciate as well as I might with a clearer understanding.
I get that sync kills are not great for multiplayer balance. Makes sense, they've been something of an issue for a while.
...Why can't we have them in singleplayer?
I really agree with this. Company of Heroes had this as well, and that kind of stuff really draws me in along with the amazing real time tactical gameplay, which is why DoW2 is my favorite.
That said have to say I really liked the Orks in DoW3. Making robots out of garbage is super Orky, as is rock music blasting from rickety WAAAGH! towers. Nailed it. I just wish the regular unit animations and voice overs had that kind of personality.